New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

[twiersum]

I'm curious how people got the motor to work at 58v? Mine is a 52v unit and it seems to have crept up to working at 55.4ish but 58 would be ideal for my 14s battery.

 

[casainho]

I also did install a TSDZ2 (36V motor and 48V battery pack) on the new 24'' wheel mountain bike, for my 8 years old son. He loves it, "so fast" he says

I guess with an 8yr old on a lightweight bike it will probably do 25-30mph without pedaling I wish they had these when I was a kid. I had to wait until I was 14 to get a moped, but that was back in the day before the power restrictions and my first moped was a 2hp model that was modified to cruise at 40-45 mph.

I am limiting the speed of his ebike to 35km/h.

About the different weight, me and my girlfriend we did 45kms (both TSDZ2 48V motor) with similar ebikes (but mine with rear bags and 26 wheels, while my girlfriend without rear bags and 27.5 wheel) and my girlfriend with 60kg and myself with 100kg, my TSDZ2 did use more than double of energy!! Can this make sense????

My ebike LCD3 showing used watts hours:


My girlfriend ebike LCD3 showing used watts hours:

 

[John and Cecil]

I'm curious how people got the motor to work at 58v? Mine is a 52v unit and it seems to have crept up to working at 55.4ish but 58 would be ideal for my 14s battery.

It sounds like you have a 48v motor. The 48v and 52v controllers are the same except for a different firmware. Perhaps they made a mistake and sent you one that was flashed with the 48v firmware. I have a 48v motor and mine has been creeping up steadily too. I think it helps if you charge it to it's max. I am able to "kick it" up to 56.7v so far, and lately it is working fine up to about 56v. I too would like to run at max battery charge, especially since I only have a puny 2ah power tool battery.

I wonder if by kicking it going at higher voltages it may speed up the process of accepting higher voltages? A few users here have manufactured a custom cable and have been able to delete the upper voltage limiter in the firmware. It requires that st link v2 (i believe) and to either cut your speed censor to wire it in, or to buy a new speed sensor to use that cable. it also requires advance programming skills to edit the firmware.

 

[Hillhater]

...
About the different weight, me and my girlfriend we did 45kms (both TSDZ2 48V motor) with similar ebikes (but mine with rear bags and 26 wheels, while my girlfriend without rear bags and 27.5 wheel) and my girlfriend with 60kg and myself with 100kg, my TSDZ2 did use more than double of energy!! Can this make sense????..

Yes! ..
Remember an Ebike is a "hybrid" , with more than one power source.
The electrical power consumed will depend on how much , or little, human power was added during the test.
The ONLY way to compare wh/km is for the riders do do NO pedaling whilst riding the exact same route at the same time,..side by side, not in line ( to equalise wind resistance)
Obviously weight will have a big influence, but so will many other factors such as type and pressure of the tyres, wind resistance, ( big/small body size, lose or tight clothing) and even riding technique..(fast/ steady acceleration ?) , etc.
Any other comparason is pointless.

 

[twiersum]

Thanks for the reply. Interesting thing is that when I apply 48v to the unit from my dc power supply it reads only 2-3 bars so I assumed that means it's a 52v unit.

 

[casainho]

Thanks for the reply. Interesting thing is that when I apply 48v to the unit from my dc power supply it reads only 2-3 bars so I assumed that means it's a 52v unit.

When my LCD3 shows 48V, it also shows that 2-3 bars. It needs the 54.6 volts to show the full bars. My TSDZ2 is configured for 48V battery ( and using the 48V motor).

 

[John and Cecil]

Thanks for the reply. Interesting thing is that when I apply 48v to the unit from my dc power supply it reads only 2-3 bars so I assumed that means it's a 52v unit.

I never tried a dc power supply but I believe my battery indicator shows full or nearly so at 48v with stock display. I am not sure if the info for the battery meter is stored in the controller firmware or elsewhere. Perhaps it is just a glitch with the one setting too, although that would seem unlikely. Regardless your motor is shutting down and the capacitors are rated a 63v or so thus it is most likely an incorrect firmware setting, at least it seems that way.

 

[AWD]

Thanks for the reply. Interesting thing is that when I apply 48v to the unit from my dc power supply it reads only 2-3 bars so I assumed that means it's a 52v unit.

There isn't a 52v display. My meter shows full bars on my 52v until it runs out of wh's. I plumbed a watt meter in and that is a way more accurate way to track usage. I just use the display for keeping track of miles traveled and once in awhile to see how fast I am going and if I need to slow down.

 

[Hillhater]

Really , the display..vlcd5 is a waste of space, other than for adjusting the settings, but even they are limited.
The battery "status" bar meter is inaccurate and pointless, they should have left it as a digital volt meter.
An ammeter and wattmeter (instantaneous, and totalised) would be much more useful.
Odo , trip, speed, time , temperatire, etc etc ..can all be provided by a $10 wireless bike computer..(and im sure we all have a few of those lying around already !).
Or , from one of the many smart phone apps.
I respect what casainho is doing with his reprogramming, but he should not have to do it, and many users will not be able to replicate it anyway. The manufacturers should think a little more before just doing what they "think" users will want.
I guess someone will figure a way of hooking the CA 3x into this package ? :?

 

[eyebyesickle]

Hi,

I know some people have had problems with '52v' units not actually being 52v etc... I drafted up a little programming manual for someone, maybe more people can get some use from it. It goes from making the programming cable, to installing and configuring the software (for windows) to the actual programming. Nothing fancy, just voltage and amps... Hopefully it is somewhat helpful to someone. Let me know how bad it sucks! :lol: :wink: I suppose I could've done a video - I probably should do both...

PDF below but the pics are small and you need to view at over 100%. I also added it to the blog/instructional, where it is formatted a bit better:

https://www.eco-ebike.com/blogs/eco-cycles-instructionals/tsdz2programmingfromscratch

Any request etc let me know... I was going to do one for controller replacement, and metal gear installation (videos for these for sure, along with a writeup) - and I was also going to do one for buying cheap lights from walmart that work on batteries, and soldering wires to them to use with the TSDZ2 and/or BBS series.

 

[Hillhater]

Thanks Eyebyesickle, that makes even me think i can do those changes ! :wink:
Is there any way of altering the LVC and HVC values for any nominal battery setting , using that programme ?

 

[eyebyesickle]

Thanks Eyebyesickle, that makes even me think i can do those changes ! :wink:
Is there any way of altering the LVC and HVC values for any nominal battery setting , using that programme ?

Great, I get started with these type of things and I am all into them, then by the end I'm not even proof-reading :lol:.

As far as Altering the LVC/HVC to match other voltages, (12s, for example) yes it is possible. I have to confirm the values for that though. I seem to remember others here discussing how the values/differential worked here, if someone doesn't speak up I know that my associate here could let us know. Also, FYI, without excessive tampering, I believe the differential between the LVC/HVC is set also, in case that question was going to come up.

 

[Hillhater]

Well , i was actually thinking more along the lines of opening up the voltage range for a particular set voltage .
Such as a 48v nominal setting , changing the Lvc to say 30v such that i could use either 13s (48v) , or 10s (36v) nominal packs with out reprogramming.
( 30v is still a safe cut off even for 13s 18650 pack, but the pack BMS will also prevent overdischarge)

 

[casainho]

Hi,

I know some people have had problems with '52v' units not actually being 52v etc... I drafted up a little programming manual for someone, maybe more people can get some use from it. It goes from making the programming cable, to installing and configuring the software (for windows) to the actual programming. Nothing fancy, just voltage and amps... Hopefully it is somewhat helpful to someone. Let me know how bad it sucks! :lol: :wink: I suppose I could've done a video - I probably should do both...

PDF below but the pics are small and you need to view at over 100%. I also added it to the blog/instructional, where it is formatted a bit better:

https://www.eco-ebike.com/blogs/eco-cycles-instructionals/tsdz2programmingfromscratch

Any request etc let me know... I was going to do one for controller replacement, and metal gear installation (videos for these for sure, along with a writeup) - and I was also going to do one for buying cheap lights from walmart that work on batteries, and soldering wires to them to use with the TSDZ2 and/or BBS series.

Thanks!!

And here the information about that 3 values that we can change on EEPROM, since you didn't write about the first one:

Here is the data of each byte:
• 1. byte value: battery min voltage (need to divided by 2.5, like 0x4E → 78; 78 / 2.5 = 31.2; battery min voltage = 31.2 volts)
• 2. byte value: battery nominal voltage (need to divided by 2.5, like 0x78 → 120; 120 / 2.5 = 48)
• 3. byte value: motor/battery max current in amps (like 0x11 → 17; 17 amps)

 

[casainho]

This is my current plan for next 2 features on LCD3 and I remember some of you guys asking for 1.:

1. Adjust the number of minutes for auto turn off the system
2. Adjust LCD backlight for night and day modes

Please read the details of each point here: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-firmware/Kunteng_LCD3_firmware/issues

Would be great if you guys can write your comments on that link and even maybe write there for desired new features.

 

[John and Cecil]

Great, I get started with these type of things and I am all into them, then by the end I'm not even proof-reading :lol:.

As far as Altering the LVC/HVC to match other voltages, (12s, for example) yes it is possible. I have to confirm the values for that though. I seem to remember others here discussing how the values/differential worked here, if someone doesn't speak up I know that my associate here could let us know. Also, FYI, without excessive tampering, I believe the differential between the LVC/HVC is set also, in case that question was going to come up.

Thanks. I too am interested in this process. I have been swamped with work lately but when I have the time I would like to attempt using (3) 5s2p power tool batteries wired in a series to produce (1) 15s2p battery. I don't think anyone has tried a 15s battery with this motor as a full charged 15s battery will be very close to the capacitor limit (63v). These batteries are inexpensive and when separated they are under 100wh each which allows them to be taken on aircraft or shipped.

I guess the power gauge will be useless with a 15s battery. Perhaps it will drop 1 bar to let you know the battery is toast

 

[eyebyesickle]

Hi,

I know some people have had problems with '52v' units not actually being 52v etc... I drafted up a little programming manual for someone, maybe more people can get some use from it. It goes from making the programming cable, to installing and configuring the software (for windows) to the actual programming. Nothing fancy, just voltage and amps... Hopefully it is somewhat helpful to someone. Let me know how bad it sucks! :lol: :wink: I suppose I could've done a video - I probably should do both...

PDF below but the pics are small and you need to view at over 100%. I also added it to the blog/instructional, where it is formatted a bit better:

https://www.eco-ebike.com/blogs/eco-cycles-instructionals/tsdz2programmingfromscratch

Any request etc let me know... I was going to do one for controller replacement, and metal gear installation (videos for these for sure, along with a writeup) - and I was also going to do one for buying cheap lights from walmart that work on batteries, and soldering wires to them to use with the TSDZ2 and/or BBS series.

Thanks!!

And here the information about that 3 values that we can change on EEPROM, since you didn't write about the first one:

Here is the data of each byte:
• 1. byte value: battery min voltage (need to divided by 2.5, like 0x4E → 78; 78 / 2.5 = 31.2; battery min voltage = 31.2 volts)
• 2. byte value: battery nominal voltage (need to divided by 2.5, like 0x78 → 120; 120 / 2.5 = 48)
• 3. byte value: motor/battery max current in amps (like 0x11 → 17; 17 amps)

I have had the LVC automatically switch to adjust in conjunction with the HVC when I set if I recall. I am going to double check this and if it works out - add it in.

Thanks

 

[AZUR]

Hello everyone.

This is my first post to Endless Sphere. I installed a TSDZ2 on my bike last Aug after discovering this forum. As of today it has done 2282 trouble-free km. I had been an avid cyclist for 70 odd years before surgery and chemo therapy knocked the starch out of me last year. The electric assist is helping me to regain my strength and stamina. I'm currently using level 2 about 70-80% of the time, using only levels 3 or 4 when I run out of gears or steam. My goal is to get down to level 1 before the snow returns. What I need is an objective way to plot my progress.

Good!!

So here's a proposal. How about adding data logging capability to the LCD3 display, similar to Grin Tech's CA2/CA3. Here's a reference to the CA3: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=91409&p=1335971&hilit=data+logger#p1332621

At first glance it looks easy and inexpensive to do. Casainho has already done most of the hard work. His firmware can display motor power, human power, total energy in W-h, cadence and so on. Is it possible to send that same data out on a serial line? If the answer is yes then an inexpensive data logger such as Sparkfun's Openlog should be able store it without too much effort on the part of the programmer https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13712

Technically is very easy to implement that with our improved original firmware, because all of that data is already sent to the LCD3 by the serial line.
With an Arduino, I would connect TSDZ2 motor controller TX line that goes to LCD, to also the Arduino so Arduino could read and log the data to a microSDCard. Or Arduino can resend the data to Bluetooth with a cheap module and the log can then be saved on Android.
In fact, I am doing this kind of things to debug while development the firmware.

Of course there will always be a problem. Offhand I can think of two. The first is finding physical access to the I/O pins on the LCD3's processor. A recent post mentioned that the circuit board is covered in hard potting compound that's hard to remove. The second is whether the processor has enough speed and RAM and uarts to run the extra code.

Anyway it could be a useful add-on for us data junkies looking to optimize tholect data in you mobile?e performance of either their electric motors or their human ones. Thoughts?

It is the XH18-LCD of TSDZ2 circuit board that is covered in hard potting compound but LCD3 don't has any potting and so is very easy to access.
Anyway, I think that best idea is just to connect in parallel to the wire that comes from TSDZ2 motor controller to the LCD3, that that means no need to open or wire anything inside LCD3.

About new features,

Do you, with the new firmware connect the bluetooth to debug the firmware?

Where do you connect the Bluetooth module?

Can we connect the module to the speed sensor cable ?

 

[John and Cecil]

Well I just bit on the new batteries. It was too good of a deal to pass up, I bought 4x 20v 5ah (5s2p) power tool batteries for $76, which is 370wh total. If I can get three of them to work in a series I will try to sell the 4th for $20. If I cannot then I can run them in pairs for 10s2p batteries and then raise the amperage a bit to compensate. I have to order a charger though, anyone have any experience charging power tool batteries in a series. I would like to buy a low amperage 63v charger and charge them hooked up in a series but I have read that it is best to balance charge them. Perhaps there is a circuit board that they can be plugged into? I guess I should post this question in the battery section. I am looking forward to seeing if this motor can run on 15s, and if I can find one I would like to try a battery charger that will under charge a bit, perhaps at 62v or so.

 

[feketehegyi]

Thank you for sharing your ideas, knowledge on TSDZ2! I've been using mine for 2 months already. I've cycled with 500 Km.
It's a "no throttle XH-18" 36V350W model with 36V 14.5Ah battery. I've mounted it on a Dahon folding bike with 20" wheels.
As mechanical upgrade I've mounted a 52T front chainring next to 42T original with a front derailleur.

I'm planing to get into the electronic part as well. I've already ordered ST-Link V2 Programming Unit. I've an Arduino Uno which I'd like to use to monitor the communication.
I'll order the "Extension Cable for TSDZ2 Speed Sensor" mentioned by eyebyesickle:
https://www.eco-ebike.com/collections/tsdz2-accessories-parts/products/extension-cable-for-tsdz2-speed-sensor.
Which I'll cut in the middle to be good for programming the motor controller and to make an Y or other cable from it which I can use with eg. KT-LCD3.
Probably cheapest would be to have only the male/female connectors and create whatever I need. But I've seen nowhere this type of connector yet.

I've looked into the code made by casainho. As far as I see currently there are 3 more values in the communication, extending the original ones: battery_current, motor_controller_state_2, pedal_cadence.
Well, I was also thinking on if I should use the Flexible OpenSource firmware for these actually 2 more values or to use a voltmeter-amperemeter with a cadence sensor.
I came up with answer yes: as then I'd not have several gadgets on my handlebars. Also there are much more possibility in the Flexible OpenSource firmware.

 

[AZUR]

Hello everyone.

This is my first post to Endless Sphere. I installed a TSDZ2 on my bike last Aug after discovering this forum. As of today it has done 2282 trouble-free km. I had been an avid cyclist for 70 odd years before surgery and chemo therapy knocked the starch out of me last year. The electric assist is helping me to regain my strength and stamina. I'm currently using level 2 about 70-80% of the time, using only levels 3 or 4 when I run out of gears or steam. My goal is to get down to level 1 before the snow returns. What I need is an objective way to plot my progress.

Good!!

So here's a proposal. How about adding data logging capability to the LCD3 display, similar to Grin Tech's CA2/CA3. Here's a reference to the CA3: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=91409&p=1335971&hilit=data+logger#p1332621

At first glance it looks easy and inexpensive to do. Casainho has already done most of the hard work. His firmware can display motor power, human power, total energy in W-h, cadence and so on. Is it possible to send that same data out on a serial line? If the answer is yes then an inexpensive data logger such as Sparkfun's Openlog should be able store it without too much effort on the part of the programmer https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13712

Technically is very easy to implement that with our improved original firmware, because all of that data is already sent to the LCD3 by the serial line.
With an Arduino, I would connect TSDZ2 motor controller TX line that goes to LCD, to also the Arduino so Arduino could read and log the data to a microSDCard. Or Arduino can resend the data to Bluetooth with a cheap module and the log can then be saved on Android.
In fact, I am doing this kind of things to debug while development the firmware.

Of course there will always be a problem. Offhand I can think of two. The first is finding physical access to the I/O pins on the LCD3's processor. A recent post mentioned that the circuit board is covered in hard potting compound that's hard to remove. The second is whether the processor has enough speed and RAM and uarts to run the extra code.

Anyway it could be a useful add-on for us data junkies looking to optimize tholect data in you mobile?e performance of either their electric motors or their human ones. Thoughts?

It is the XH18-LCD of TSDZ2 circuit board that is covered in hard potting compound but LCD3 don't has any potting and so is very easy to access.
Anyway, I think that best idea is just to connect in parallel to the wire that comes from TSDZ2 motor controller to the LCD3, that that means no need to open or wire anything inside LCD3.

About new features,

Do you, with the new firmware connect the bluetooth to debug the firmware?

Where do you connect the Bluetooth module?

Can we connect the module to the speed sensor cable ?

Maybe the best way is to connect the bluetooth module in the same cable of the lcd3 dispay?

 

[John and Cecil]

I have a question if you guys don't mind. It appears really simple to remove the side cover and access the wiring for the controller (2 min job). Is there any way to connect the link tool directly to the wires or connectors inside the motor housing?

 

[casainho]

I have a question if you guys don't mind. It appears really simple to remove the side cover and access the wiring for the controller (2 min job). Is there any way to connect the link tool directly to the wires or connectors inside the motor housing?

Yes, follow the cables that are wired to the board near the STM8, see here a picture:

https://opensourceebikefirmware.bitbucket.io/development_tsdz2/Various--2018.04.18_-_original_firmware_and_debug_session_using_OpenOCD.html

 

[casainho]

About new features,

Do you, with the new firmware connect the bluetooth to debug the firmware?

Where do you connect the Bluetooth module?

Can we connect the module to the speed sensor cable ?

Maybe the best way is to connect the bluetooth module in the same cable of the lcd3 dispay?

Yes, must be on the same cable of LCD3. When I debug that way, I can't use the LCD3.

 

[casainho]

LCD3 firmware just got the very first contribution from another user - Karl Szmutny from Munich, Germany, submitted the implementation of offroad mode for the LCD3!!

Please see here the description of how ti is activated: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-firmware/Kunteng_LCD3_firmware/pull/3

I think is missing, is some feedback to the user so he knows if off road mode is active or not. Do you guys have any ideas for this??