New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

[andyme]

I was driving in the rain the other day without problems, but today the whole system doesn't power up. I don't own yet a multimeter, but that would be something to start with tomorrow. (And learn how to operate one).

I did fully charge my battery, I do remember that the first time I connected the charger didn't work maybe but in the end it did I think.. but now when I charge the light stays green indicating a full battery. Also the 4 LEDs on the battery tell me the battery is supposed to be fully charged.

Maybe you guys have some steps I can follow to get to the problem.

I bought my kit from Future-Bike.it for my Fatbike so 120mm bottom bracket.

Display is race display (the small one next to your brake)
http://www.future-bike.it/shop/kit-di-trasformazione-3/display-race-per-motore-active-torque/

Motor
http://www.future-bike.it/shop/kit-di-trasformazione-3/motore-active-torque-fat/

Battery 48v 17.5Ah
http://www.future-bike.it/shop/kit-di-trasformazione-3/batteria-potente/

Thanks for helping out already!

have you checked that all cables are well connected? that is how i would go about it. if the battery has built-in charge indicators you can obviously assume that the battery is ok and still charged. so all i can think of right now is that some connection got lost...

either from the battery to the motor, or from the display to the motor....maybe you can check that...theoretically also the cable that comes from the battery could be disconnected from the battery...so these are the things i would check. with a multimeter you could check that there is voltage at the end of the battery's cable and how high it is. so this way you can work your way through the chain...but maybe you can find an interruption in the connections even without a multimeter. good luck!

 

[mctubster]

Yeah I had a bbs02 before as well, and in comparison it has no noise, it was dead quiet.
However I do have 2 TSDZ2-motors, and only this one in the videos is making this horrible grinding noise. The other one can be heard, sure, but it doesn't embarrass the driver like this one.

Are both of your motors currently in bikes? I would love to have a quick comparison of the noise, couple of short youtube clips if possible?

Cheers
Steve

 

[flufferty]

so you see how difficult this is to judge from a recording...so what it comes down to basically is: you are convinced that this motor is not the way it should be and the company who sold it to you did not repair it correctly and therefore you warn people to buy from them. ok.

Yes, absolutely, one sole recording does no justice. And myeah, I am convinced PSWpower taking 2 months to do nothing is bad, and I will recommend noone to buy from them because of it. Unfortunately I bought both my engines from them, so I see that it might be the manufacturers quality control I should question, but still, they (pswpower) should recognize my noise-problems, or at least not do nothing for 2 months. It's a bad customer service experience for me.

Yeah I had a bbs02 before as well, and in comparison it has no noise, it was dead quiet.
However I do have 2 TSDZ2-motors, and only this one in the videos is making this horrible grinding noise. The other one can be heard, sure, but it doesn't embarrass the driver like this one.

Are both of your motors currently in bikes? I would love to have a quick comparison of the noise, couple of short youtube clips if possible?

Cheers
Steve

They are! I can probably find time to record tomorrow evening.

 

[andyme]

so you see how difficult this is to judge from a recording...so what it comes down to basically is: you are convinced that this motor is not the way it should be and the company who sold it to you did not repair it correctly and therefore you warn people to buy from them. ok.

Yes, absolutely, one sole recording does no justice. And myeah, I am convinced PSWpower taking 2 months to do nothing is bad, and I will recommend noone to buy from them because of it. Unfortunately I bought both my engines from them, so I see that it might be the manufacturers quality control I should question, but still, they (pswpower) should recognize my noise-problems, or at least not do nothing for 2 months. It's a bad customer service experience for me.

but frankly: pswpower is a company in china...i am not surprised that it took 2 months...and also: i personaly would not expect ANY service from this kind of supplier...you order from them for the price and the rest is your own risk (theoretically not, but in practice yes...)

 

[casainho]

Yes, absolutely, one sole recording does no justice. And myeah, I am convinced PSWpower taking 2 months to do nothing is bad, and I will recommend noone to buy from them because of it. Unfortunately I bought both my engines from them, so I see that it might be the manufacturers quality control I should question, but still, they (pswpower) should recognize my noise-problems, or at least not do nothing for 2 months. It's a bad customer service experience for me.

I would say that happens and I think that is the reality, some motors can have issues -- I always bought from PSWPower and I already bought maybe 6 units and one off them had a not working torque sensor. We are buying very cheap motors and parts of a very recent technology -- you see, you simple can't buy local, no company sells you on your local city and that are with reasons. I think we should not have the same expectations when buying something from a chinese online shop, that has VERY different culture and regulation laws compared to our cities in like EU or USA.

The true is that we need shops like PSWPower because they are the only ones that decided to sell us at very cheap prices and they ship worldwide. I think there are also online shops that has good customer service but you pay for that.

I have tried replicating the noise by hand and with motor out and blue gear in, the noise is there, so I assume its the teething between big gear and small axle gear that makes the noise?
I also tried overfilling the drive side with grease, with no difference in noise. The motor has been tried in different frames to rule out resonance/vibration.

I think you are trying to do the correct thing, try to find the reason of the issue and solve it. PSWPower sells (again, at very cheap prices) the parts of the motor so if you find the issue you should be able to repair at cheap price parts + your time. You as me, you can decide to buy another motor and keep that one for spare parts.

And if you find the issue, please share with us -- you know, we are helping each other here, when you came here you were looking for "free customer support" so is important if we also provide help to others.

 

[casainho]

I mocked up what I would like the 850c to look like

Here is the Google draw link if you want to modify, edit, copy it. https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1oTKJwZcmlooldzGWEXHFoa23Xp7zOFro0tIsH8Nu1hg/edit

Thanks!! that was the help I though I would need. I will look at that source files and try to play with them as I like your design, HOWEVER, I plan to use like 1/3 the screen, at bottom, for a graph where a variable is shown -- this is something I want much and I think would be really great to have a graph showing like last 30 minutes (LCD 300 pixels width, 300/30 --> 6 seconds each pixel).
The graph must have a label showing the variable name as also scale, and maybe the scale of Y will be automatic while X scale can at start to be like the last 30 minutes.

I would only add that the ability to cycle through some of the cool features in the lower part of the display would make it perfect. A short single press on the power button is typical for the 850C to cycle through different fields.

The short long press to cycle as you refer, is already implemented on KT-LCD3 (cycle on variables to be shown on odometer field) and I like it, so I think I will keep that idea. Also for the graph, I wish we can cycle over a few variables to be shown!

 

[mctubster]

Yeah I had a bbs02 before as well, and in comparison it has no noise, it was dead quiet.
However I do have 2 TSDZ2-motors, and only this one in the videos is making this horrible grinding noise. The other one can be heard, sure, but it doesn't embarrass the driver like this one.

Are both of your motors currently in bikes? I would love to have a quick comparison of the noise, couple of short youtube clips if possible?

Cheers
Steve

They are! I can probably find time to record tomorrow evening.

That would be fantastic. If there are quieter versions out there I may take a punt and get another one.

 

[mctubster]

Thanks!! that was the help I though I would need. I will look at that source files and try to play with them as I like your design, HOWEVER, I plan to use like 1/3 the screen, at bottom, for a graph where a variable is shown -- this is something I want much and I think would be really great to have a graph showing like last 30 minutes (LCD 300 pixels width, 300/30 --> 6 seconds each pixel).
The graph must have a label showing the variable name as also scale, and maybe the scale of Y will be automatic while X scale can at start to be like the last 30 minutes.

Sounds great. No idea how hard this is to implement - The large Garmin cycle computers have an interesting setup where you setup multiple "screens" and customise what is displayed in each field

In the configuration you choose for screen 1

FIELD1 = TRIP DISTANCE,
FIELD2 = TRIP TIME
FIELD3 = CADENCE
FIELD4 = ODO
GRAPH = MOTOR TEMPERATURE

Then you configure screen 2 (which you switch to/from using a short press on the power button for example)

FIELD1 = TRIP DISTANCE
FIELD2 = HUMAN POWER
FIELD3 = CADENCE
FIELD4 = MOTOR TEMP
GRAPH = BATTERY CURRENT

This way you let people configure what they want to see on their main screen as well as easy to switch to other combinations.

 

[sidmodi]

Hello,

I installed my TSDZ2 to my bike today (https://archive.trekbikes.com/us/en/2015/Trek/7_2_fx#/us/en/2015/Trek/7_2_fx/details). Everything went well except that I was only able to secure the motor using the plate that attaches to the bottom bracket. The motor comes with that additional plate that helps additionally secure the motor with a vertical screw but I was unable to use that part because of the design of the frame.

Has anybody ridden their bike without using that mount? Is it absolutely necessary to secure the motor with that plate? I have not taken it for a test ride yet.

Thank you,
Sid

 

[thineight]

Yes, absolutely, one sole recording does no justice. And myeah, I am convinced PSWpower taking 2 months to do nothing is bad, and I will recommend noone to buy from them because of it. Unfortunately I bought both my engines from them, so I see that it might be the manufacturers quality control I should question, but still, they (pswpower) should recognize my noise-problems, or at least not do nothing for 2 months. It's a bad customer service experience for me.

I would say that happens and I think that is the reality, some motors can have issues -- I always bought from PSWPower and I already bought maybe 6 units and one off them had a not working torque sensor. We are buying very cheap motors and parts of a very recent technology -- you see, you simple can't buy local, no company sells you on your local city and that are with reasons. I think we should not have the same expectations when buying something from a chinese online shop, that has VERY different culture and regulation laws compared to our cities in like EU or USA.

The true is that we need shops like PSWPower because they are the only ones that decided to sell us at very cheap prices and they ship worldwide. I think there are also online shops that has good customer service but you pay for that.

I have tried replicating the noise by hand and with motor out and blue gear in, the noise is there, so I assume its the teething between big gear and small axle gear that makes the noise?
I also tried overfilling the drive side with grease, with no difference in noise. The motor has been tried in different frames to rule out resonance/vibration.

I think you are trying to do the correct thing, try to find the reason of the issue and solve it. PSWPower sells (again, at very cheap prices) the parts of the motor so if you find the issue you should be able to repair at cheap price parts + your time. You as me, you can decide to buy another motor and keep that one for spare parts.

And if you find the issue, please share with us -- you know, we are helping each other here, when you came here you were looking for "free customer support" so is important if we also provide help to others.

On top of that, my experience is that if you prove that a particular piece is damaged, they prefer you to open and fix, therefore they send you the piece for free (you pay the shipping). This requires a bit of DIY skills but in the end it is still an advantage. I had to disassemble completely the unit due to a faulty torque sensor.. in the end I took the chance to buy 2 spare blue gears for my 2 motors and with the same shipping I had the torque sensor delivered.
In the end also the 2nd one was a bit tilted so I insisted to have another one for free.. but this is another story.

 

[mctubster]

Hello,

I installed my TSDZ2 to my bike today (https://archive.trekbikes.com/us/en/2015/Trek/7_2_fx#/us/en/2015/Trek/7_2_fx/details). Everything went well except that I was only able to secure the motor using the plate that attaches to the bottom bracket. The motor comes with that additional plate that helps additionally secure the motor with a vertical screw but I was unable to use that part because of the design of the frame.

Has anybody ridden their bike without using that mount? Is it absolutely necessary to secure the motor with that plate? I have not taken it for a test ride yet.

Thank you,
Sid

Pretty common to not use the additional mounting plate. I haven't used it because of the design of my frame. All that can happen (sometimes) is the motor slowly rotates in the bottom bracket until it touches the down tube. If it does this put some rubber between the motor and the down tube to reduce vibration.

Cheers

 

[StevenLee]

where did you buy the 52v tsdz2 motor

 

[irrelevant]

Has anybody ridden their bike without using that mount? Is it absolutely necessary to secure the motor with that plate? I have not taken it for a test ride yet.

Thank you,
Sid

You might want look at this post by Kisazul (https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=79788&start=2750#p1395963) and read few pages after that.

 

[Waynemarlow]

Thanks!! that was the help I though I would need. I will look at that source files and try to play with them as I like your design, HOWEVER, I plan to use like 1/3 the screen, at bottom, for a graph where a variable is shown -- this is something I want much and I think would be really great to have a graph showing like last 30 minutes (LCD 300 pixels width, 300/30 --> 6 seconds each pixel).
The graph must have a label showing the variable name as also scale, and maybe the scale of Y will be automatic while X scale can at start to be like the last 30 minutes.

Sounds great. No idea how hard this is to implement - The large Garmin cycle computers have an interesting setup where you setup multiple "screens" and customise what is displayed in each field

In the configuration you choose for screen 1

FIELD1 = TRIP DISTANCE,
FIELD2 = TRIP TIME
FIELD3 = CADENCE
FIELD4 = ODO
GRAPH = MOTOR TEMPERATURE

Then you configure screen 2 (which you switch to/from using a short press on the power button for example)

FIELD1 = TRIP DISTANCE
FIELD2 = HUMAN POWER
FIELD3 = CADENCE
FIELD4 = MOTOR TEMP
GRAPH = BATTERY CURRENT

This way you let people configure what they want to see on their main screen as well as easy to switch to other combinations.

Yes the Garmin and also other Nav programs use these flexible fields, they work well and allows everyone to set up the units to there requirements. Its worth a look as this setup system as it offers great flexibility.

 

[cj11363]

The biggest difference was power. When I switched from a VLCD-5 to a VLCD-6 on one of my bikes ( 48V, 750watt ) power was limited to 300w and speed was limited to 25kph. Changing the data memory ( as outlined by Eyebyesicle ) had no effect. Changing to the 52v ( "stock" ) firmware ( as supplied by Eye ) and editing the data memory seems to have restored my 750w of power. Configuring the thing for the smallest possible wheel size yields sufficient speed for me.

/cj

 

[mossboss]

The biggest difference was power. When I switched from a VLCD-5 to a VLCD-6 on one of my bikes ( 48V, 750watt ) power was limited to 300w and speed was limited to 25kph. Changing the data memory ( as outlined by Eyebyesicle ) had no effect. Changing to the 52v ( "stock" ) firmware ( as supplied by Eye ) and editing the data memory seems to have restored my 750w of power. Configuring the thing for the smallest possible wheel size yields sufficient speed for me.

/cj

Interesting, thanks! I've had luck adjusting the speed limit and circumference on the VLCD6, but not the power. I fear that I'm not getting the most out of my motor. Does anyone have any tips for adjusting power on that display?

 

[Rydon]

Hello,

I installed my TSDZ2 to my bike today (https://archive.trekbikes.com/us/en/2015/Trek/7_2_fx#/us/en/2015/Trek/7_2_fx/details). Everything went well except that I was only able to secure the motor using the plate that attaches to the bottom bracket. The motor comes with that additional plate that helps additionally secure the motor with a vertical screw but I was unable to use that part because of the design of the frame.

Has anybody ridden their bike without using that mount? Is it absolutely necessary to secure the motor with that plate? I have not taken it for a test ride yet.

Thank you,
Sid

You got the most important plate. The other bracket just keeps the motor from rotating forward. I have seen people use stainless steel wire to secure the motor from where that anti-rotation bracket attaches up to the downtube to hold it in the forward-most position or to the seat-tube from behind to keep it from rotating forward. The wire can be attached to a bolt or even wrapped around the tube or attached to a clamp. I have seen this solution work for many years. Alternately, if the bottom bracket nut is super tight and you are only running 250-350 watts, it may not rotate at all.

 

[andyme]

Hello,

I installed my TSDZ2 to my bike today (https://archive.trekbikes.com/us/en/2015/Trek/7_2_fx#/us/en/2015/Trek/7_2_fx/details). Everything went well except that I was only able to secure the motor using the plate that attaches to the bottom bracket. The motor comes with that additional plate that helps additionally secure the motor with a vertical screw but I was unable to use that part because of the design of the frame.

Has anybody ridden their bike without using that mount? Is it absolutely necessary to secure the motor with that plate? I have not taken it for a test ride yet.

Thank you,
Sid

would you mind making pics of your situation? i personally do not recall more than one mounting plate..the one that attaches the motor to the bottom bracket with a big screw... and i was not able to use it ....no space....and i have made hundreds of miles and it is all fine.

 

[casainho]

Has anybody ridden their bike without using that mount? Is it absolutely necessary to secure the motor with that plate? I have not taken it for a test ride yet.

It can break your motor!!

Play safe, maybe this wiki page can give you some ideas, read TSDZ2 FAQ -- How to install TSDZ2 on a full suspension bicycle:

https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-firmware/TSDZ2_wiki/wiki/FAQ

 

[andyme]

Has anybody ridden their bike without using that mount? Is it absolutely necessary to secure the motor with that plate? I have not taken it for a test ride yet.

It can break your motor!!

Play safe, maybe this wiki page can give you some ideas, read TSDZ2 FAQ -- How to install TSDZ2 on a full suspension bicycle:

https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-firmware/TSDZ2_wiki/wiki/FAQ

i happened to stumble over this...maybe of help?:

https://www.ebay.de/itm/Ebike-Stabiliser-Bar-For-Full-Suspension-Bikes/323554114215?hash=item4b5553faa7:g:Rz4AAOSwWz5cBPiD

https://www.ebay.de/itm/Ebike-Stabiliser-Bar/223234132480?hash=item33f9ca8a00:gMcAAOSwkFZb72Fb

it is for bafang, but it will fit over the axle of course and the rest could be adapted if needed...

 

[thineight]

I had no space to fit the stock bracket, therefore I created a sort of cantilever using the stock skrew (M8 I guess) with two washers and a aluminium cylinder in between to put it against and grip the threads. The skrew is inserted in the same hole where it is supposed to be with if the bracked is in place.

Then I fixed the frame to the motor (via this "cantilever") with a adjustable metal strap.
I post a couple of Picts with the result (sorry for the labels in Italian but I uploaded the picts on the Italian forum earlier on)

 

[jbalat]

I have a dual suspension bike, you may check out one of my videos from signature below.
I dont use the side plate or the rear mount to secure the motor.

I use a plastic washer under the big nut (I got this from my BB when I removed it), this helps to stop it from coming undone. I also use some rubber between the frame and the motor since the motor always wants to rotate upwards however when that deteriorated I have now inserted a wide icepole stick and filled it with hot glue gun. Works just as good as the rubber.

 

[Rydon]

i happened to stumble over this...maybe of help?:

https://www.ebay.de/itm/Ebike-Stabiliser-Bar-For-Full-Suspension-Bikes/323554114215?hash=item4b5553faa7:g:Rz4AAOSwWz5cBPiD

https://www.ebay.de/itm/Ebike-Stabiliser-Bar/223234132480?hash=item33f9ca8a00:gMcAAOSwkFZb72Fb

it is for bafang, but it will fit over the axle of course and the rest could be adapted if needed...

That looks like a knock-off of california ebikes brackets. Might as well buy them from the guy that invented them.

https://california-ebike.com/shop/bsbf-1-bafang-stabilizer-bar-full-suspension-bike-bbs0102-bbshd/
https://california-ebike.com/shop/bsb-1-bafang-stabilizer-bar-bbs0102-bbshd/

The holes on these brackets designed for Bafang BBSXX don't line up for TSDZ2 so need to be modified. Other options like Casainho's and Thineight's are cool. Thanks guys! Stainless steel wire is crude but also works. Alternatively, you can sometimes leave off the anti-rotation bracket entirely on 250-350 watt motors. But if you try this, make sure the bb nut is extra tight against the bb plate and use blue Loctite.

Make sure you always install the TSDZ2 bottom bracket plate even if you can't get the anti-rotation bracket to work or the motor housing may crack.

The california-ebike bracket alternative replaces both the anti-rotation bracket and the TSDZ2 bottom bracket plate (but must be modified to fit).

 

[sac02]

The biggest difference was power. When I switched from a VLCD-5 to a VLCD-6 on one of my bikes ( 48V, 750watt ) power was limited to 300w and speed was limited to 25kph. Changing the data memory ( as outlined by Eyebyesicle ) had no effect. Changing to the 52v ( "stock" ) firmware ( as supplied by Eye ) and editing the data memory seems to have restored my 750w of power. Configuring the thing for the smallest possible wheel size yields sufficient speed for me.

/cj

Interesting, thanks! I've had luck adjusting the speed limit and circumference on the VLCD6, but not the power. I fear that I'm not getting the most out of my motor. Does anyone have any tips for adjusting power on that display?

Hi All,

New TSDZ2 owner here. I'm working my way through this entire thread, currently on page 24 of 159...

The unit I purchased was advertised as 750W 48V. It included the minimal VLCD6, not the larger VLCD5 display. I'm pretty sure out of the box I'm hitting the 25kph speed limit. I didn't realize when I made the purchase that the VLCD5 would be "necessary" (easier) to adjust settings options.

Can anyone link me to instructions on how to potentially modify settings using the VLCD6?

Link to how to update firmware?

Or should I just pony up the $50 and buy a VLCD5?

Thanks!

 

[Rydon]

The biggest difference was power. When I switched from a VLCD-5 to a VLCD-6 on one of my bikes ( 48V, 750watt ) power was limited to 300w and speed was limited to 25kph. Changing the data memory ( as outlined by Eyebyesicle ) had no effect. Changing to the 52v ( "stock" ) firmware ( as supplied by Eye ) and editing the data memory seems to have restored my 750w of power. Configuring the thing for the smallest possible wheel size yields sufficient speed for me.

/cj

Interesting, thanks! I've had luck adjusting the speed limit and circumference on the VLCD6, but not the power. I fear that I'm not getting the most out of my motor. Does anyone have any tips for adjusting power on that display?

Hi All,

New TSDZ2 owner here. I'm working my way through this entire thread, currently on page 24 of 159...

The unit I purchased was advertised as 750W 48V. It included the minimal VLCD6, not the larger VLCD5 display. I'm pretty sure out of the box I'm hitting the 25kph speed limit. I didn't realize when I made the purchase that the VLCD5 would be "necessary" (easier) to adjust settings options.

Can anyone link me to instructions on how to potentially modify settings using the VLCD6?

Link to how to update firmware?

Or should I just pony up the $50 and buy a VLCD5?

Thanks!

Here is the only documentation I have found on the VLCD6. Cute little display but doesn't do miles. You can toggle the speed limit between 25kp/h and 45kp/h. You can also use a smaller wheel diameter to trick the speed limit into reading lower but then the kp/h reading is wrong.

If you want to try the open source firmware, buy a KT-LCD3 instead of the VLCD5. The OS firmware is really cool.