New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

[Marin]

I have a query in to the owner about moisture as I'm trying to get bike going for her, I'll post back what she says and I may just open it up anyway as we both suspect this

 

[casainho]

TSDZ2 running at 1400W, 25 Amps

I did that by mistake, running TSDZ2 at 1400W, 25 Amps, with my development firmware... I did run for only about 1 minute and here is the result on the blue gear, the one at right side (the blue gear at left side is a new one). I think that would not happen with the brass gear but anyway, the motor would heat to fast to be useful running at the 25 amps.

 

[ilu]

New firmware release, 860C display now works!!

Is it possible to install firmware on 860C using the same bootloader hardware as for the 850C or does it need different equipment?

 

[casainho]

New firmware release, 860C display now works!!

Is it possible to install firmware on 860C using the same bootloader hardware as for the 850C or does it need different equipment?

Thank you for remembering me that I need to update the documentation

Yes, it is just the same process. The only different thing is that you need to select the 860C firmware file instead.

 

[jeff.page.rides]

I finished my bike today. Have the Alfine 11 installed, and a 52T front ring, 20T in the back. But this is too high geared. I will revert to the original 42T next and try that. Also have 16T, 18T and 23T for the back to try and get the optimal setup.

The IGH hubs almost always have an overdrive function the cassettes don't provide. This can work well for small wheel bikes and wide rear hubs that can run small chainrings in front.
Sheldon Brown's gear calculator has the IGH hubs in it and can let you see what you will have for gearing. You can input several chainrings and rear cogs at once if you like. The chart gets complex but it CAN do it.
https://sheldonbrown.com/gear-calc.html

I use a 16 tooth and a 23 tooth sprocket at the same time on any Alfine & Nexus hubs. Machined down and welded together with a derailleur.
It allows me to have the best of both worlds, speed on the flats and downhill and great climbing ability on the uphill. https://youtu.be/G6kQvM4Or3U https://youtu.be/PH0vLcno_Xc https://youtu.be/NP3uKfEMF_Q

 

[izeman]

I use a 16 tooth and a 23 tooth sprocket at the same time on any Alfine & Nexus hubs. Machined down and welded together with a derailleur.
It allows me to have the best of both worlds, speed on the flats and downhill and great climbing ability on the uphill. https://youtu.be/G6kQvM4Or3U https://youtu.be/PH0vLcno_Xc https://youtu.be/NP3uKfEMF_Q

Nice one. That gives you almost 50% more gear range. So you know have a spread of around 600%. But on the other hand it ruins the simplicity of the IGH setup alone, and adds a lot of complexity.
EDIT: seeing the 2nd video where you introduce the bike I'm totally stunned. What a great bike! And I see that the second shifter is only a little part of it. There's more complexity to it 8) . Very well done - especially the chin shifter ...

 

[casainho]

I use a 16 tooth and a 23 tooth sprocket at the same time on any Alfine & Nexus hubs. Machined down and welded together with a derailleur.
It allows me to have the best of both worlds, speed on the flats and downhill and great climbing ability on the uphill. https://youtu.be/G6kQvM4Or3U https://youtu.be/PH0vLcno_Xc https://youtu.be/NP3uKfEMF_Q

Jeff, I added as example your build of an hand cycle -- I linked to your videos!!

 

[Atrihalov]

Need some advice. Hello. Somehow it became strange to drive a motor. Help is not. When you stop pedaling for a few seconds, the motor runs. Everything used to be perfect. Factory firmware. Motor 36/500. Torc sensor dead?

 

[Atrihalov]

Hey. Please tell me how to remove Torque Sensor ?

 

[casainho]

Hey. Please tell me how to remove Torque Sensor ?

Read this page: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-firmware/TSDZ2_wiki/wiki/FAQ
And also search on Youtube.

 

[Atrihalov]

Maybe someone came across a similar behavior of the motor. Namely, he began to work as a PAS assistant. You touch the pedals and he immediately turns on all the nonsense and does not immediately stop. And when you press normally, somehow it doesn’t really help. In the output analysis, I will try to get and inspect the torque sensor. I don’t understand what happened? Thanks for any comments.

 

[jeff.page.rides]

I use a 16 tooth and a 23 tooth sprocket at the same time on any Alfine & Nexus hubs. Machined down and welded together with a derailleur.
It allows me to have the best of both worlds, speed on the flats and downhill and great climbing ability on the uphill. https://youtu.be/G6kQvM4Or3U https://youtu.be/PH0vLcno_Xc https://youtu.be/NP3uKfEMF_Q

Jeff, I added as an example your build of a handcycle -- I linked to your videos!!

Thanks, Casainho, Today electrifybike.com is going to install the "overrun" modification on the old beta 20 to see how that works. And then later this week we're going to install an 860C and your latest software on my hand-cycle. Where excited to try your latest efforts and your support for the 860C. I'm very thankful for all you and the others have done to improve the TSDZ2 system for hand-cycles and regular riders, my wife loves her TSDZ2 with an 850C.

 

[jeff.page.rides]

I use a 16 tooth and a 23 tooth sprocket at the same time on any Alfine & Nexus hubs. Machined down and welded together with a derailleur.
It allows me to have the best of both worlds, speed on the flats and downhill and great climbing ability on the uphill. https://youtu.be/G6kQvM4Or3U https://youtu.be/PH0vLcno_Xc https://youtu.be/NP3uKfEMF_Q

Jeff, I added as an example your build of a handcycle -- I linked to your videos!!

Thanks, Casainho, Today electrifybike.com is going to install the "overrun" modification on the old beta 20 to see how that works. And then later this week we're going to install an 860C and your latest software on my hand-cycle. Where excited to try your latest efforts and your support for the 860C. I'm very thankful for all you and the others have done to improve the TSDZ2 system for hand-cycles and regular riders, my wife loves her TSDZ2 with an 850C.

We tried to install an 860C today, it comes up on the screen and says waiting for tsdz2 and then it says firmware error.
We installed the 860C 69 files on the 860C and installed the 55 files on the TSDZ2.
Any suggestions on why this went wrong and would not work?

 

[casainho]

We tried to install an 860C today, it comes up on the screen and says waiting for tsdz2 and then it says firmware error.
We installed the 860C 69 files on the 860C and installed the 55 files on the TSDZ2.
Any suggestions on why this went wrong and would not work?

Well, then I think I have much more development work to do. I am waiting some 860C units on the mail and then I will be able to test connected to the TSDZ2, something I didn't yet...

 

[mdumdei]

I'm getting a firmware error on boot with 6.9 for the 850C and 55.0 hex file. Went back to previous version I was using and all is well. Anyone successfully running 850C 6.9 with the 55.0 hex file? I looked at the change log and it looked like 6.9 was associated with a 56.0 hex and then knocked back down to 55.0. At any rate not working for me.

Update: I dug into the binary and I think it is looking for a 56 hex, not a 55. Going to recompile from source tomorrow and see if that fixes it. Could be looking at the wrong thing, but what I see looks suspicious.

In a recompiled binary 10bf8 - 35h ('5') and 10bf9 - 35h ('5') or '55'
In the the downloadable 6.9 binary, those values are 35h & 36h which is a '56'

The version of motor firmware expected is defined in a Makefile. I think the online 6.9 was built with the wrong value in the Makefile.

 

[casainho]

I'm getting a firmware error on boot with 6.9 for the 850C and 55.0 hex file. Went back to previous version I was using and all is well. Anyone successfully running 850C 6.9 with the 55.0 hex file? I looked at the change log and it looked like 6.9 was associated with a 56.0 hex and then knocked back down to 55.0. At any rate not working for me.

Update: I dug into the binary and I think it is looking for a 56 hex, not a 55. Going to recompile from source tomorrow and see if that fixes it. Could be looking at the wrong thing, but what I see looks suspicious.

In a recompiled binary 10bf8 - 35h ('5') and 10bf9 - 35h ('5') or '55'
In the the downloadable 6.9 binary, those values are 35h & 36h which is a '56'

The version of motor firmware expected is defined in a Makefile. I think the online 6.9 was built with the wrong value in the Makefile.

You may be correct but I updated twice the files after foj d this issue, I don't know how I could fail twice...

 

[mdumdei]

I'm getting a firmware error on boot with 6.9 for the 850C and 55.0 hex file. Went back to previous version I was using and all is well. Anyone successfully running 850C 6.9 with the 55.0 hex file? I looked at the change log and it looked like 6.9 was associated with a 56.0 hex and then knocked back down to 55.0. At any rate not working for me.

Update: I dug into the binary and I think it is looking for a 56 hex, not a 55. Going to recompile from source tomorrow and see if that fixes it. Could be looking at the wrong thing, but what I see looks suspicious.

In a recompiled binary 10bf8 - 35h ('5') and 10bf9 - 35h ('5') or '55'
In the the downloadable 6.9 binary, those values are 35h & 36h which is a '56'

The version of motor firmware expected is defined in a Makefile. I think the online 6.9 was built with the wrong value in the Makefile.

You may be correct but I updated twice the files after foj d this issue, I don't know how I could fail twice...

Ok, did nothing but download your source, recompile it, and load it. It worked. No more motor init errors. I did modify the 850/860 Makefile to default to a bootloader version, but didn't touch anything else - the rev was correct in the downloaded source.

Pretty certain it is the rev in the Makefile - think you have one hanging out in your source tree somewhere that it is getting instead of the one you think or you are not pushing the bin you think you are. Just guessing at what it could be. I would MUCH rather use your compile than mine since you know the tools and I just patched them together from your guide. A big part of the reason I chose the TSDZ2 over something else was your code - great work.

 

[casainho]

Ok, did nothing but download your source, recompile it, and load it. It worked. No more motor init errors. I did modify the 850/860 Makefile to default to a bootloader version, but didn't touch anything else - the rev was correct in the downloaded source.

Pretty certain it is the rev in the Makefile - think you have one hanging out in your source tree somewhere that it is getting instead of the one you think or you are not pushing the bin you think you are. Just guessing at what it could be. I would MUCH rather use your compile than mine since you know the tools and I just patched them together from your guide. A big part of the reason I chose the TSDZ2 over something else was your code - great work.

Thanks for reporting and I just updated, again, the release files. I really hope they are working now!!

 

[mdumdei]

Ok, did nothing but download your source, recompile it, and load it. It worked. No more motor init errors. I did modify the 850/860 Makefile to default to a bootloader version, but didn't touch anything else - the rev was correct in the downloaded source.

Pretty certain it is the rev in the Makefile - think you have one hanging out in your source tree somewhere that it is getting instead of the one you think or you are not pushing the bin you think you are. Just guessing at what it could be. I would MUCH rather use your compile than mine since you know the tools and I just patched them together from your guide. A big part of the reason I chose the TSDZ2 over something else was your code - great work.

Thanks for reporting and I just updated, again, the release files. I really hope they are working now!!

I just pulled again and same '56' in the binary. The newly downloaded copy was a perfect binary match of the previous one. Maybe the old file is not being overwritten on the upload repository?

Don't know if these executables use checksums for integrity, but I could plug the '56' with a '55' in the downloaded file if it doesn't care about hacked binaries and see if that is it for sure. The bin offset is at 10bf8 and 10bf9. The '6' or 36h is at 10bf9.

Update:
Ok, I did that - hacked the downloaded binary from the online asset list replacing the 36h at 10bf9 with a 35h - basically making it look for a 55 version motor firmware vs. a 56 rev and the downloaded firmware worked fine after patching the byte.

Couple things I could think of if you are rebuilding with a 55 and it just isn't showing up in the online copy:
1) The mirror you are uploading to isn't replicating (making some of us still see 56 level software), Not sure how to solve that.
2) Just give up and put a 56 rev motor file out there even if it is the same exact thing as the 55 rev to make the display software happy.

After a bit of trying to figure it out, I would probably go with option 2 myself - I'm pragmatic, why waste time . There is option 3 too and that is I don't know what I'm talking about .

 

[Hasse67]

Hey all,
I'm new here and just a few days ago installed a tsdz2 750w and a 48v battery.
It works pretty well, but in terms of speed I'm a little disappointed, with speed limit setting 25 kph OFF, I reach 30-33 kph on flat ground, I thought top speed would be higher.
Is this all right, Is 30-33 kph as expected?

 

[izeman]

Totally depends on your bike and weight. With a fatbike and bad gearing it sounds reasonable.
What's your cadence in highest gear? Normally, I'd say 40km/h needs around 1000W, and this kit is able to deliver 500W sustained and ~700W-800W (battery) peak.

 

[hefest]

One of the wires coming from controller to the display has original battery voltage, in my case 48v. I've got dc-dc step down voltage converter with usb that I'm planning on wiring to that wire to be able to charge various things while on the move, such as phone.

Any ideas what kind of current this wire can handle?

 

[knutselmaaster]

One of the wires coming from controller to the display has original battery voltage, in my case 48v. I've got dc-dc step down voltage converter with usb that I'm planning on wiring to that wire to be able to charge various things while on the move, such as phone.

Any ideas what kind of current this wire can handle?

I'd say less than 500mA, these wires are extremely thin.

 

[Hasse67]

It's a mountain bike and I'm lightweight, about cadence at highest gear I don't know,
Is it so, that the motor stops providing power at a certain cadence?

 

[ilu]

It's a mountain bike and I'm lightweight, about cadence at highest gear I don't know,
Is it so, that the motor stops providing power at a certain cadence?

Yes, the maximum cadence with motor assistance is currently 90 rpm, when you're using 48v motor with 48v battery. In-depth information can be found here

To get higher cadence limit you could use 36v motor with 48v battery (the bare motor you can find for 80+ euros).

Naturally the chainring/cog tooth ratio also plays a major part in top speed, especially when motor assistance stops at higher cadence. In mtbs this is usually quite low, as chainrings are typically quite small to get lower ratios with lower gears. With my hardtail mtb I'm using 38t chainring with 10-42 cassette, but it's a compromise as the lowest gears are slightly too "big" for steep ascents in rough terrain.
On flat streets I can reach ~40 km/h, although I'm also using 36v motor with 36v battery and "experimental high cadence mode" found in the open source firmware. If you're mostly riding on streets you can try using bigger chainring, if you want an allaround bike then check if it's possible to fit also a wider range cassette ie. 11-46t or even 11-50t.

Edit: here I'm quite fixated on 1x chainring system, as I feel that front derailleur makes things too crowded at BB and handlebar, but naturally even with 2 chainrings you can easily get greatly wider range.