New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

[stancecoke]

and seems you are not looking to make your work accessible / project having success, since you wrote in DE and not in EN??

no, as usual, everything is available as open source in english on github, code, schematic and wiki

Only the discussion in the german forum is in german of course :wink:
I hope someone will design a PCB layout for it some day

I just bougth a 8€ VLCD5 keypad on ebay from china, it will arrive until mid of october. That's cheaper than shipping your part to me and back through half europe

regards
stancecoke

 

[szchz]

I am trying to wire my 850c to the battery harness, I cut the 850c on the display side (female) and wiring is different then the wiki (I think the wiki harness photo is from cutting on the male end. The wiring colors are different I have

purple
white
green
orange
black

I'm not sure what these wires do, all I can find is this wiring diagram https://electricbike.com/forum/foru...its/bbshd/26907-bbshd-and-bbs02-wiring-pinout which is for the male end. Does anyone know what the wiring diagram is for the above wires?

 

[casainho]

I just bougth a 8€ VLCD5 keypad on ebay from china, it will arrive until mid of october. That's cheaper than shipping your part to me and back through half europe

That is fine. I am being working on the firmware for the EBike and it will take time to get it working - the remote will only be needed on that time, October seems a nice time.

 

[Krele]

Hi everyone,

New to the ES forum....
Firstly, great forum with open mind to share everything/anything to help global riding community.
My build - TSDZ2 (48V 500W) mounted on Haro Shift S3 (2017), battery 14S3P, display KT-LCD3, firmware OSF rev. 17
Used mainly for work commute, with only few of road rides. I've done ~27000 km, still on original blue gear.
Replaced only sprag bearing approximately 6 months ago. Also removed original sprocket and spider, mounted Lekkie Bling ring with 10mm offset and adaptor plate.
Installed temperature sensor and cooling pads around motor. In normal weather conditions (~20-25 C) motor temperature goes to
36-40 C and in summer where temperature outside is 30-38C motor heats up to ~62-65C.

Great motor until recently started to experience minor glitches (happens twice so far). When riding motor suddenly develops mechanical drag and display still shows torque output but probably with half of assistance for same pedal press normally.
Releasing pedal/force on motor for 2-3 sec. resets something and upon new pedal force everything is back to normal.
Anyone experienced similar condition and resolved issue?

Thanks,
TK

 

[famichiki]

Replaced only sprag bearing approximately 6 months ago. Also removed original sprocket and spider, mounted Lekkie Bling ring with 10mm offset and adaptor plate.

What is the adapter plate you have used?

 

[jbalat]

Looks custom, can you please post the drawing Krele ?

 

[Krele]

Hi,

Sorry no drawing. Adapter plate is Aluminium.
OD 91.5mm, ID ~1mm bigger than OD of sprag bearing, thickness ~6.1mm (slightly above sprag bearing).
Bolt pattern to suit main gear.

Hope that helps.

 

[casainho]

Hi everyone,

New to the ES forum....
Firstly, great forum with open mind to share everything/anything to help global riding community.
My build - TSDZ2 (48V 500W) mounted on Haro Shift S3 (2017), battery 14S3P, display KT-LCD3, firmware OSF rev. 17
Used mainly for work commute, with only few of road rides. I've done ~27000 km, still on original blue gear.
Replaced only sprag bearing approximately 6 months ago. Also removed original sprocket and spider, mounted Lekkie Bling ring with 10mm offset and adaptor plate.
Installed temperature sensor and cooling pads around motor. In normal weather conditions (~20-25 C) motor temperature goes to
36-40 C and in summer where temperature outside is 30-38C motor heats up to ~62-65C.

Great motor until recently started to experience minor glitches (happens twice so far). When riding motor suddenly develops mechanical drag and display still shows torque output but probably with half of assistance for same pedal press normally.
Releasing pedal/force on motor for 2-3 sec. resets something and upon new pedal force everything is back to normal.
Anyone experienced similar condition and resolved issue?

Thanks for sharing the photos of your nice build, they will for sure inspire new users!!
My EBike is a very similar build of yours, and, with latest firmware version with the field weakening feature, I get up to 55 kms/h on flat roads if I provide like 300 watts of my own human power, in addition to the 800 watts that motor provides - you should try it

The issue you describe seems something mechanical, I bet it is something with the blue gear -- see the wiki TSDZ2 FAQ with more details about the issues of blue gear including the ones on the bearing.

 

[casainho]

TSDZ2 torque sensor human power accuracy

I was always interested in measured TSDZ2 pedal power / torque sensor accuracy. I do not have a pedal power meter for comparison but recently I bought the Stryd running power meter and I did a comparison between between both this values.

When I ride my EBike I feel good when pedaling giving about 300W of my human power and I always see my heart rate on my watch on or the bicycle GPS display - I know very well what are the usual values of my heart rate for that 300W of my pedal human power.

While running with the power meter, I saw that 300W was for about the same heart rate of 250W measured by the TSDZ2 torque sensor. Although the Stryd is known on the community as the best running power meter, it is not possible to validate the values it provides. Also, running is very different than cycling. I can't say TSDZ2 pedal power / torque sensor accuracy is good or not but I was very surprised positively and I am very happy with it!!

Note that this tests were done with firmware V1.0.0 and with TSDZ2 calibrated torque sensor.

The graph of run power and heart rate:

In future, on the wireless TSDZ2 Ebike standard, the TSDZ2 pedal human power will also be sent to the watch or GPS display and will be recorded the same way as on that graph.

I am interested on knowing the power I provide pedaling because I have days where I cycle and run and I would like to know the power / fitness level I can provide on this sport activities.

 

[AZUR]

Hi all,

I would like to share with the Forum what I did on the TSDZ2 engine to improve heat dissipation.

Part 1

I acted in 3 areas:

1 - Installation of Thermal Pad according to what is described in this forum.
2 - Installation of heatsinks in the motor housing
3 - Lubricate the engine with a grease suitable for nylon Blue Gear.
I lubricated with a grease that is used to lubricate the nylon gears in the wind turbines. I used the Molykote PG-65 grease.

Below are some pictures.

 

[AZUR]

Hi all,

I would like to share with the Forum what I did on the TSDZ2 engine to improve heat dissipation.

Part 2

I acted in 3 areas:

1 - Installation of Thermal Pad according to what is described in this forum.
2 - Installation of heatsinks in the motor housing
3 - Lubricate the engine with a grease suitable for nylon Blue Gear.
I lubricated with a grease that is used to lubricate the nylon gears in the wind turbines. I used the Molykote PG-65 grease.

Below are some pictures.

 

[AZUR]

Hi all,

I would like to share with the Forum what I did on the TSDZ2 engine to improve heat dissipation.

Part 3

3 - Lubricate the engine with a grease suitable for nylon Blue Gear.
I lubricated with a grease that is used to lubricate the nylon gears in the wind turbines. I used the Molykote PG-65 grease.

I applied Molykote both on Blue Gear and internally on the bearings as well as on all metal gears.
The engine was running much quieter.

Below are some pictures.

 

[feketehegyi]

I was playing with the RPM if it can be used to make some music or noise.
[youtube]pF2juPPgbQA[/youtube]

 

[jbalat]

When riding motor suddenly develops mechanical drag and display still shows torque output but probably with half of assistance for same pedal press normally.
Releasing pedal/force on motor for 2-3 sec. resets something and upon new pedal force everything is back to normal.
Anyone experienced similar condition and resolved issue?

The issue you describe seems something mechanical, I bet it is something with the blue gear -- see the wiki TSDZ2 FAQ with more details about the issues of blue gear including the ones on the bearing.

I am getting the same thing every now and then, if it is mechanical then should be able to take the motor apart and check for any signs of wear and movement, however if you are saying that the power drops, which I haven’t noticed, then maybe there is a poor connection to the torque sensor, from what I have heard the springs push against a plate and can be prone to wearing out ?

 

[famichiki]

I've done ~27000 km, still on original blue gear.

Have a look at the plastic cable cover and see if you have any wear over the pinion gear area. Do you know if your motor is the original model with straight gears or the new model with helical gears? If it's the newer model have a read of this, it really needs some modifications to reduce the chances of destroying the torque sensor.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=108017

 

[dameri]

Hi all,

I would like to share with the Forum what I did on the TSDZ2 engine to improve heat dissipation.

Part 3

3 - Lubricate the engine with a grease suitable for nylon Blue Gear.
I lubricated with a grease that is used to lubricate the nylon gears in the wind turbines. I used the Molykote PG-65 grease.

I applied Molykote both on Blue Gear and internally on the bearings as well as on all metal gears.
The engine was running much quieter.

Below are some pictures.

Nice work and pictures. Where did you buy Molykote PG-65 grease?
edit: I heard Molykote PG-54 plastilip grease could be fine.

 

[AZUR]

Hi all,

I would like to share with the Forum what I did on the TSDZ2 engine to improve heat dissipation.

Part 3

3 - Lubricate the engine with a grease suitable for nylon Blue Gear.
I lubricated with a grease that is used to lubricate the nylon gears in the wind turbines. I used the Molykote PG-65 grease.

I applied Molykote both on Blue Gear and internally on the bearings as well as on all metal gears.
The engine was running much quieter.

Below are some pictures.

Nice work and pictures. Where did you buy Molykote PG-65 grease?
edit: I heard Molykote PG-54 plastilip grease could be fine.

Hi Dameri,

Thank you for your words.

I bought the Moly 65 in Portugal.

In Belgium, on the website, www.klium.com, you can buy, 1kg, for € 58.2 plus shipping costs (€ 20 for Portugal)).

They also have the PG-54 but it costs € 140.6 KG.

I sent the photos of the Blu gear and the engine to Molykote and the European technicians advised me on the PG 65.

As I said before, it is used in Nylon gears, in wind turbines.

I am not a grease specialist.

But what I found out the PG-65 has an NLGI Grade = 1 and it seems to me that it is better than the PG 54 which has an NLI Grade = 2-3.

If you check the grease that comes on the engine, on Blue Gear, when you buy it, it should have an NLGI = 1.

Regards

 

[dameri]

Hi all,

I would like to share with the Forum what I did on the TSDZ2 engine to improve heat dissipation.

Part 3

3 - Lubricate the engine with a grease suitable for nylon Blue Gear.
I lubricated with a grease that is used to lubricate the nylon gears in the wind turbines. I used the Molykote PG-65 grease.

I applied Molykote both on Blue Gear and internally on the bearings as well as on all metal gears.
The engine was running much quieter.

Below are some pictures.

Nice work and pictures. Where did you buy Molykote PG-65 grease?
edit: I heard Molykote PG-54 plastilip grease could be fine.

Hi Dameri,

Thank you for your words.

I bought the Moly 65 in Portugal.

In Belgium, on the website, www.klium.com, you can buy, 1kg, for € 58.2 plus shipping costs (€ 20 for Portugal)).

They also have the PG-54 but it costs € 140.6 KG.

I sent the photos of the Blu gear and the engine to Molykote and the European technicians advised me on the PG 65.

As I said before, it is used in Nylon gears, in wind turbines.

I am not a grease specialist.

But what I found out the PG-65 has an NLGI Grade = 1 and it seems to me that it is better than the PG 54 which has an NLI Grade = 2-3.

If you check the grease that comes on the engine, on Blue Gear, when you buy it, it should have an NLGI = 1.

Regards

Thanks a lot for the advice. You did a great job of asking the technicians which grease is good.

Thanks also for the Belgian link, I will order from there. I was actually looking for stores to order, and I only found wholesalers and they only sell many cans at a time, and they didn’t even sell to private customers.

 

[charakaSamawry]

Found an eBay with a selection of greases available in the uk. https://ebay.co.uk/usr/cbennissupplies

But it’s my first time servicing my tsdz2 (which am glad I chose to do so because the grease has seen better days), didn’t think about the complexities of grease lol.

Which grease do I need for the,
Big main gear? with the sprag clutch bearing in it And that engages with a little gear. On the drive side. Does the bearing spray clutch in that need different treatment? Looks like it has a seal covering the rollers and pawls at least
And the blue gear?
And the bearing inside that?

So far looked at these,
Blue lithium complex HT EP https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/391759918214
White lithium calcium https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/391512674311
‘Red Tacky HT, WR Synthetic’ (Red aluminium complex 2T) https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/392805250817
Black moly‘ lithium CV joint Grease https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/173461572292
Lithium ep2 Moly’ https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/173824885606
This one sounds Good, Castrol Spheerol EPL 2 Castrol Spheerol EPL 2 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/174133921159
Unsure about this one but it said something about no petroleum distillates
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/391687934040
Polyurea Heavy duty gc-lb? Urea means it doesn’t hurt plastic right? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171345385698

Anyway seems he has a lot of different greases and I’m more confused as to what I need now?
any more advice on my first service Would be much appreciated. Things to check and worth replacing?

 

[Krele]

I've done ~27000 km, still on original blue gear.

Have a look at the plastic cable cover and see if you have any wear over the pinion gear area. Do you know if your motor is the original model with straight gears or the new model with helical gears? If it's the newer model have a read of this, it really needs some modifications to reduce the chances of destroying the torque sensor.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=108017

Hi Famichiki,

Thanks for reply, it's motor with straight gear. After few more rides when drag starts to occur motor gets noisier and power display is stuck on the same number. I'm starting to think it's mechanical issue. I've ordered new blue gear and will replace bearings on small drive shaft as motor has ~27000km, good mileage with original parts. Maybe is time for overdue service.

Cheers,

 

[Swannking]

After climbing more than 2000ft up Mt Diablo, I think my recumbent trike can use a smaller chainring. I doubled up the 52T with the stock offset 42T. I need to place washers to clear the inner ring from the motor housing. Although I can’t shift it with a derailleur since the boom doesn’t have the derailleur post, I don’t think the derailleur would reach without more modification. On the good note, I can change it manually when the trike is stationary without difficulties.

 

[casainho]

After climbing more than 2000ft up Mt Diablo, I think my recumbent trike can use a smaller chainring. I doubled up the 52T with the stock offset 42T. I need to place washers to clear the inner ring from the motor housing. Although I can’t shift it with a derailleur since the boom doesn’t have the derailleur post, I don’t think the derailleur would reach without more modification. On the good note, I can change it manually when the trike is stationary without difficulties.

Really nice view and trike!!
I use 34T on my ebike, it well.

 

[famichiki]

I am awaiting delivery of my new torque sensor because the original has just died.
And in my opinion, the culprit is not the bearing system but a shim that was originally too thin or has worn out prematurely.
In the photo we see a shim which is very thin, too thin.

NOTE 1: The distance between these two surfaces should be approximately 1mm. (Including the shim) Otherwise the torque sensor rotor will have too much pressure on the stator.

I assume the original shim material is made of teflon.
I will have to add one or more shims to respect the distance of 1 mm. At this distance the three stator springs will exert sufficient pressure.
Km on this motor: 8000.
48v 750W New version.

I have 2 of those teflon washers on my motor, 0.4mm and 0.5mm. I think they weren't even present at all on older motors and were probably added due to the change in the torque sensor design which raises the sprag clutch and big gear off the sensor disc without using brass shim washers. Unfortunately they aren't available separately and do not come with the replacement torque sensors. Skived teflon sheet can be used as an alternative for cutting your own out.
https://www.swiftsupplies.com.au/virgin-ptfe-sheets-range

I recommend sanding the motor case protrusion smooth where they contact, mine looked smooth at first but felt a little rough and has been scratching the washer. Also file off the sharp edges around the outside of the protrusion.



Did you read the other threads about how the helical gearing pulls the gears together and can possibly cause the torque sensor rubbing and failure? It seems one of the springs and nipples was removed to help alleviate this problem. Perhaps it also caused your teflon washer to wear quicker.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=108017
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=105177

Also where has the low friction material gone from the coils, did you remove it? I think this is teflon coated glass fabric like this:
https://www.swiftsupplies.com.au/ptfe-glass-cloth-range

 

[famichiki]

No, it was like that when I disassembled the torque sensor for the first time. It seems that the material which covered the coils has been completely sandblasted. Nothing remains!

Thank you for the information.

It looks more like the material was never fitted to begin with. I've never seen a replacement for sale like that, but someone else's failed and was missing the material too. Perhaps the constant friction has caused yours to overheat and crack. But 8000km is a good distance if this is your first problem!
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=79788&start=6350#p1520207

 

[tricz]

Does anyone know what that sound like? What could it be?
Below is a video with assist
https://youtu.be/sKtnDLd_Fkw

And a film without any assist
https://youtu.be/YCPraJ_jyEM