please help

[Living E Caveman]

Hi all,
this is the short version.
I got a 24v 15ah ebay duct tape battery.
I get very little power from it for 3 cycles now.
when my currie electrodrive battery guage says it is getting low, I've only gone 100-200yards.
I understand the curie gauge is for SLA and my main hope now is that the battery seems very very slightly discharged when I recharge it.(cells go from 3.5 down to only 3.2 when guage says low.
I still don't understand why I have so much less power than for my 10ah lithium battery.
I'm still cycling it, and will just cycle it much lower next time to try to bring the batteries to life.
I just want power and range to increase.

you can ignore the rest of this post. I'll post my final results soon.


I'm scared of this vpower (24v 15ah) battery i got recently. the charger it came with didn't work, and I hope i can figure this thing out before i start stomping on it.
I had a working charger just like the one it came with, so i plugged it in the bms and left, putting my trust in the bms for once. mistake. upon returning, It would not charge and read about 24v. 2 days later, today, i check its total voltage and it magically reads 27v. happy! and it charges again!(for a few seconds)
I checked all the cells via the balance wires and they all read 3.4v or so. but when i put the power cord to a motor, it does nothing and the whole battery's voltage drops a few volts withing seconds of doing nothing. (then bounces back) even an electric drill motor doesn't run. even directly from the battery (no bms in line) it does the same thing.
my fear is that, because i got it from ebay from a seller with 20 some positive ratings, its fake. but the dealer had other batteries and no one else has left negative feedback, so i'm hoping i just don't get it.
I'm not new to batteries, 3yrs XP, but this baffles me---
I was trying to measure the current, so i put a low voltage light (12v) to the (3.4v)balance wire and it lit dimly. I think it should have lit a low watt bulb more than a standard 9v battery does, but no. this is where it gets weird. I put the bulb to the main contacts, expecting the filament to burn out, but nothing! no light. still reads ~24volts tho. what is wrong here?????? update: i came back and it did run a scooter motor with some strength. Is there a bms inside as well as the outer white one? I'll return soon after more experimentation.
this is the second time it push me a tenth of a mile, then my bike battery gauge says its already nearly depleted. I'm going to cycle it some more and hope it gains more distance,what a mess. honestly put in a fuqing manual, or you get negative feedback dude.I'm still hoping it breaks in.

its duct tape and vpower stickers. I'm very sad, this messed up my holiday. depended on this to work.
chinese lifepo+bms first timer here, so hoping I'm just missing something concerning balancing. I hate admitting it, but i need someone who knows what they're doing now. I'll check back hourly for replies.

 

[999zip999]

Check charger with mlti meter. Make a claim with ebay today. Don"t buy a battery from victpower. Most of batterty peoblems on E.S. are from victpower or like vendors. this is well said on E.S. a roll of the dice at best. Sorry to hear another victpower story.
Check charger voltage.
Check pack voltage.
Hook up a light bulb to see if lights. standard old house light blub.

 

[Living E Caveman]

thanks zip. I'm trying to cycle the weakest cell a few times to bring it to life now. monitoring closely and I figure using a lower amp charger will be gentler, if take longer. probly ok with 6amp charger tho(if it balances). will post results.

ebay seller
NOT sure its a dud yet. waiting for results of a few cycles to see actual pack capacity.
My main problem if its a good pack is the lack of instructions or even starter hints with this chinese crap! even broken english would be more than welcome, and that is a real compromise i'd be willing to make. I can't find crap online either.
Thank God for ES(and ebike.com or something). some stuff I've learned from yall.

 

[dogman dan]

Step one is to get the voltmeter, and confirm your charger is working. If overnight on the charger doesn't improve things, you will then need to look at individual cell voltages. Its possible that it's just so out of balance that it can't run. Also possible, is it just got damaged in shipping, having some cells disconnected by a drop from the conveyor.

 

[Living E Caveman]

theres at least one cell (that shows it) behaving badly in the middle. -lowest discharge and highest charge cell. and i can't tear the pack down or i won't get my money back from ebay's money back thingy.
its too much work to do any more. but i would like to hook a working lifepo/lipo 3 v battery(i have both) to the bad cells balance wire to see if i can fix it. just raised to not waste anything. how that happened in america, on the east coast, i cannot fathom.
still a non-bms fan of human balancing. how do i close this thread, and bury it forever?
Thank you ES

 

[Living E Caveman]

assuming i can and may choose a battery to use for a few dozen miles before selling it with the very same motor I'm using it with; especially 24v, which i prefer for legal and long range reasons,
what does ES suggest?
I'm not lazy just fishing for answers i do not have.
I'm touring with an ebike and selling it as i go as well as a dude holding a pointy sign at an ebike can do it.
It will work or you will hear from me no more.
what chemistry will work, assuming i have very limited monetary resources?
self balancing is sweet for this work. bms is not terribly unwanted, as it works much of the time, and requires nothing past the original cell checks.
new chemistries are probably expensive, and i only ask for one hint on how new tech is winning this war on pollution.
someone must know something I can use. please remember my used car, i mean ebike business is depending on economic battery types.
John
PS i ain't lazy i'm currently drunk, which should stop upon my road trip. just fishing in these waters for answers that should already be available to the public. kinda hoping for a few leads here. I read articles on lots of different chemistries but all that is unproven, unless someone can clue me in.

I have no idea how to make a little profile for myself, but here is my best try
2 currie kits, 300$ each, sla's eventually replaced by bamboo lithium 12v 10ahX2 batts or new sla's 2,500miles total
1 350w direct drive front wheel drive with 18ah batts 500 miles
plans to use a batteryized 18v ryobi saw to urban engineer a super cheap and low power but multi battery friction motor.
and alot of wasted time i meant to use to change the world

 

[Living E Caveman]

the first rule of affordable quality ebike batteries is;
we do not talk about affordable ebike batteries
the second rule of affordable quality ebike batteries is;
we do NOT talk about affordable batteries that work
it could destroy our infrastructure

I should've just stuck with SLA's and got big muscles

 

[dogman dan]

It does indeed sound like you have a bad cell group in the middle of that pack. Try to get your money back, good luck, its not like you can ship it back. It's too costly to ship it hazmat.

Why don't we talk about affordable ebike batteries? Cuz they aren't so affordable. You can get some fairly cheap batteries intended for RC toys, but they are not safe, so not suitable for mainstream ebikes.

Expensive ebike batteries are at least still cheaper than a car that needs a big repair.

 

[Living E Caveman]

I have more questions dogman, thanks alot, I'd say that's MY dog! if i actually knew you.
so, I can't ship it as a normal battery? why hazmat?-it's lifepo. I would not expect a fire en route, or liability thereof.
I'll look up some shipping rates for batteries-i did and what a crapload of regulations. can you tell me what you mean by too expensive so I can avoid reading 5,000 regulations?
1. It was shipped from california.
2. shipping was free in listing, its only about 10 lbs.
I would pay to return them, as per ebays buyer protection program requires for money back, but i don't want to eat a big shipping bill when they said they will send me cells to fix it. messy, but i can do it. testing other cells capacity now.
good evening

 

[Monstarr]

I also bought 2 chargers from V-power. Dirt cheap.

But they both got the input and output wires wrong. Doesnt really matter on the AC side but i does really matter on the DC side of the charger.
I presumed blue should be - and brown + so i soldered the connectors onto the leads that way, but it was the other way around. (i guess blue means + in chinese????)
Thank god for reverse polarity detection...

The chargers are working fine now after i switched the output connections on the board.

 

[dogman dan]

To ship a battery legal, you have to take it to a shipper that handles that stuff. I'm not sure who, but it will be costly. I'm not sure if UPS does it or not. You aren't a hazmat shipper, even if you read all that.

Or, and I don't advise you to do this, you ground ship and lie what you are shipping. and hope they don't catch you, and fine the shit out of you.

If that battery is leaking and stinking, they will catch you. They know what leaking batteries smell like.

The guy you bought it from, he shipped and lied. He calls getting caught a cost of business.

I would take the cells. Tell them you need more than you think. So you can screw up some, and still have more.

 

[USAEBIKECO]

UPS store can pack and ship a lithium battery but its very expensive. Several hundred dollars from what I remember.

If you try and ship it without the hazmat paperwork they will stop it from being shipped and destroy it. All the shipping companies are taking lithium battery shipping seriously.

 

[999zip999]

You can't get a 500usd or 700usd battery for 300-500usd. Yes you can buy a battery for cheap but it just wouldn't work. These is why we have E.S.
Because of ebay vendors like victpower.
You said you got it from califorina.

 

[Living E Caveman]

You can't get a 500usd or 700usd battery for 300-500usd. Yes you can buy a battery for cheap but it just wouldn't work. These is why we have E.S.
Because of ebay vendors like victpower.
You said you got it from califorina.

I cannot understand who would pay more for an ebike than a very used car. not my target audience, I know.
I'm working from the bottom up as Obama said is needed, and not trying to get to the top, where I would become the same as the rest up there. (re: years of living dangerously documentary -the desert earth episode)
I just used negative feedback as a prybar to get another battery. yeah I can tear down these recycled batteries and I ride all day to test the capacities the fun way(I HOPE).
I'm enjoying reading ES forum. I should've known there's no magic answer, just about a thousand to sift thru by myself.
Thanks for your support, it was invaluable.
God bless ES!