Prodeco Phantom X2

[dickselectrictoys]

Good Day Endless-Sphere readers:
Prodeco is experience delays on our 2012 product line. 90% of all bike parts in the industry are produced overseas. If you look at our models, we use Shimano gear sets and Promax brake systems. Promax also produces for Sram’s product line. Our frame is our own design just like Treks frame is there design. The interlocking mechanism is not our design.
All the materials to build the bike are shipped in, and all bikes are built and tested carefully in the United States to assure quality control as much as possible. Like any growing company, supply is limited to demand. Microsoft, Sony and many other companies have faced supply issues when product demand has been great. The 2012 delay is due to our new battery and bracket molds taking much longer than expected. Our entire product goes through an extensive testing process.
We apologize for any delays our dealers or customers might be experiencing. We are shipping 2012 models at this time with all the 2012 upgrades. 200 - 250 watt models will ship only in 24 volt at this time. The only bikes shipping with 36+volt systems will be anything 300watt and above. These bikes will be on limited production until our new 36 volt bracket’s and molds become available. The Phantom X will now be offered in 200-250 watt motors.
A lot of customers have asked about our price increases. It is much more expensive to product 36volt systems then 24 volt systems. Having a 36volt system only effects the charge times on our bikes and is not associated with speed and power output of our motors.
I hope this answers some of our customers concerns. It is not common practice for us to respond to threads.
Have a Great Day
Anthony Ciulla
Prodeco Dealer Sales

sent u a message. appreciate ur response/already searched the internet 2 make copys....no luck.

 

[dickselectrictoys]

Hello Everyone Interested In The Prodeco Phantom X2........ok now...here is the update: #1) on the third day of riding/testing X2, the "guide" (which sets in a slot, after the guides allow it to slide in to...broke completely off)...this now allowed the battery to flot up & down. #2) one side of the brackets (two of em) broke off, as the metal screw was secured into a plastic. #3) today when starting out, i knowised a wobble in the area of where the bike folds...."the bottom hindge broke off." #4) i called "Rob" at prodeco Technology & asked for more BB5 disc brakes...."that was three weeks ago"....am still waiting?? Today 8/25/12, i tried to call the original company i ordered from called "Champion Bicycles" in New York & the phone contact number is no longer assessable/disconnected or whatever. I managed to fix all the problems except the most recent problem. It is a fast, reliable bike." i am wondering whats gonna happen next?? By the way...i live in Port Huron, Mi., & most of the sidewalks are brand new from Marysville to the north end of Port Huron. So its not like i was jumping...caus i never did,..not even once! Whats really great is the actual distance"....& i weigh 200lbs. My digital speedometer shows between 15 & 18 miles...."thats full power" NO PEDALING! My other bike the E-Moto, actually gets 19 miles, (at full power use)...it does have two speeds for pedal assist, but i never really use it very much. One was 1299 & the other was 1600. (the 1600$ one is for buss/plane/train, as it folds up & fits in a "stow bag" i have just recieved...its like a over the sholder bag. That cost was 150. I got my toys for the year & will be contiplating on a 48volt, which (so far), is the only bike available with a "solar panel" (400$)...which u can actually hook up on ur bike & recharges as u ride. Remember: electric bikes distance depends on "yur weight"- "wind" - "hills" & "air pressure in ur tires"......probable a few mor, but thats all i am concerned about, or that really important...The charge too!!

 

[dickselectrictoys]

i just knowiced that "anthony" from prodeco is using my screen name. I wonder if he really reads these statements...............? if he does, he should read mine real well & transfer the problems back to the company in "over seas" & correct them! U CANNOT CONNECT A METAL BOLT TO PLASTIC CONNECTION & NOT EXPECT IT TO BRAKE...as far as the plastic to plastic "slide alligner"????? but the bottom hinge breaking................................?? if u really care bout ur customers...u will fix the engineering problem!!!!

 

[50yearoldebiker]

Prodeco do the right thing ? That company thinks the public owes them something for building the worlds best E-Bike. :lol:
Karma has a way of getting back @ people that goes for companies that operate like Prodeco as well, good luck

 

[PhantomX2Biker]

I just received my Phantom X2 last week on 8/22/12. Purchased new from eBay. I received it and immediately noticed that the wheels wouldn't move very easily and found that the disc brakes were preventing the wheels from turning freely. I tried adjusting them using the instructions in the manual, but no luck, so I took it to a local bike shop. They told me that they wouldn't work on the bike because it was an e-bike, so they directed me to an e-bike dealer a few miles away. The e-bike dealer did their best to get them adjusted properly and even had to add some washers get some space between the pads and the disc, but they still rub a bit. I'm going to try living with them for awhile since there doesn't seem to be a way to get the brakes to stop rubbing completely without replacing them.

Aside from the issue with the brakes, so far I'm enjoying my first e-bike experience. I've been able to get the bike up to 25mph (verified by a radar speed limit sign in my neighborhood) without any trouble at full throttle and with some fast pedaling. The bike seems to be built like a tank and is pretty heavy, but it moves like a much lighter bike at full throttle.

I contacted Prodeco directly to ask a simple question via their website about 2 weeks ago and never received a response, so I'm not optimistic that they will be responsive if I really need them for something important. Luckily, I can drive to their location directly without too much trouble if I ever need to.

I've definitely been bitten by the e-bike bug now and can see myself buying another one someday as the technology and range improves, but I like that the Prodeco Phantom X2 has a 40 mile range at 20mph, so I'm sure it will keep me entertained for awhile.

 

[amberwolf]

Is that the range you have actually gotten out of it? If not, you should test that range, and report actual results. Since most companies don't report actual real-world results without "purifying" the data or setting up some unrealistic "test track" or whatever, we're always really interested in bike owners actual real-world results.

If you have power meters like the Watts Up or Cycle Analyst installed, it would be interesting to see what hte actual realtime usages are, under various conditions, as well.

 

[PhantomX2Biker]

I will definitely test the range and report back. I'm also very curious about the real world results.

 

[Jason27]

In my experience you won't get the 40 miles as advertised. Not with a 12ah battery.

If you don't get the 40 miles distance you should ask prodeco for another battery.

 

[anthony_prodeco]

Hi Guys, this is Rob Provost, the CEO of Prodeco Technologies. A friend asked me earlier today to check out what has been being discussed about Prodeco Technologies on Endless Sphere and any input I may have. This account is Daniel's but I want to do my best to spend the next 20 minutes answering any questions I come across. If you guys ever wanted, I could set up a Q & A chat session for an hour or so on a week night where anyone can ask me any question about Prodeco Technologies and I will answer them. There will be no topic banned and there is no question I will not answer. That is only if there is interest. You can respond to rob.endless.sphere@prodecotech.com if there are people who want to do this. I am not sure if the administrator of the Endless Sphere will allow it or even allowed the email address I set up to be displayed. Please keep in mind I work between a minimum of 12 - 14 hours per day and 7 days a week. I think even Xmas I came in for 4 hours. I love my job here and we love building the bikes but I rarely will have time to come on here and why the chat session could be best. If anyone emails and expects an answer quick, that may not happen through me but I will do my best.

Now to answers questions on here, this response is to the question I read is someone asking about using a 48V controller on the motor and battery. The answer is no. First, we do have 48V batteries, controllers and motors for 2013 but the Second, the wiring is thicker for the 48V system to handle the increased load. The brass pin configuration is great for the 500W motor and up to 25 Amps coming through. The 48V system with 25 Amps coming through (1200 Watt peak) requires a lower gauge (thicker) wire system. Upgrading on your own is not recommended and can void all warranties.

On a separate note, the 36V 9Ah batteries, we use 2 banks of 12 cells each. The cells are 3.2V 4.5Ah LiFEPO4 Prismatic cells. The 12Ah is also 2 banks but 6Ah cells. The LiFEPO4 cells are .4V lower than a Manganese or Cobalt lithium cell often found in ebike batteries but do not have long life spans. The LiFEPO4 cells are 3.2V but the charger is set to charge them to 3.65V each cell which is basically the max allowed. Since we use 12 cells in a bank, the battery wil charge to 43.8V but the nobody should be fooled to believe it will power 48V. It will not work and cannot be done. The 48V battery uses 32 cells and the only difference was adding 4 cells to each bank of the 36V battery. This gave us 51.2V 9Ah instead of 38.4V 9Ah and powers the 48V motor beautifully. You must also keep in mind the motors are set at the hall sensors in the stator to a limited RPM. Higher Amps will give improved take off speed but will not affect top RPM too much unless the motor was no set to a lower RPM.

On a side note, keep in mind battery storage is measured also Volts multiplied by Amps. If you have a controller that is 48V 25Ag, you will peak at 1200Watt which means you are consuming 1200 Watts per Hour. No matter what size battery, they will drain quick. For round numbers a 48V battery that is 10 Amps will offer 480 Watts. If you are burning 1200 Watts per hour, the math is easy. The battery will last less than 1/2 an hour. Efficiencies are where the numbers change from manufacturer to manufacturer but never more than 10%. How much a person pedals, if the controller is peaking (hills, off the line, etc..), condition of battery will change all the numbers. Some battery chemistries brakdown a lot faster than others. Why we use the LiFEPO4 even though they are more dense and have a higher cost is due to the longevity, safety and almost non-existent return rate. Once in a while our batteries can be damaged or short out which is less than 1% but rarely will the cells ever have an issue.

 

[amberwolf]

Second, the wiring is thicker for the 48V system to handle the increased load. The brass pin configuration is great for the 500W motor and up to 25 Amps coming through. The 48V system with 25 Amps coming through (1200 Watt peak) requires a lower gauge (thicker) wire system.

AFAIK, wiring thickness is not normally based on power thru the wire, but only current, as resistance to current is what drives the power loss thru the cable. So unless there is a poor connection (high resistance) somewhere, then the same current at higher voltage should have no difference in power supplied thru (or voltage drop across) the cabling vs same current at lower voltage, as far as your battery cabling goes.

Regarding *motor* cabling from the controller, that might need to be thicker to handle the increased motor (phase) currents, if what you already have is not sufficient to prevent overheating. However, unless that cabling is already running very hot, there shoudl be no need to upgrade it to go up from 36V to 48V at the same battery current; it's not that much of a total power increase and shouldnt' be that much of a phase current increase, unless your controller for the higher voltage is also capable of much more extreme phase currents for long periods.

You must also keep in mind the motors are set at the hall sensors in the stator to a limited RPM. Higher Amps will give improved take off speed but will not affect top RPM too much unless the motor was no set to a lower RPM.

I suspect you mean that they are set in the *controller* to a specific RPM maximum; the hall sensors themselves can't limit the RPM of the motor. (unless you have installed electronics inside the motor at the hall sensors to cease sending hall signals, thus halting the controller, once a specific number of pulses-per-second or whatever has been reached, which would seem an odd way to do it--or some other such mechanism).

Doing it in the controller is a very common way of limiting speed; many controllers have a jumper to enable/disable this limit.

On a side note, keep in mind battery storage is measured also Volts multiplied by Amps.

Actually, capacity is measured as Volts multiplied by Amp-Hours. It is a very important distinction.

If you have a controller that is 48V 25Ag, you will peak at 1200Watt which means you are consuming 1200 Watts per Hour.

Not if you are only peaking at that power level.

If you are running continuously at that higher power level, then yes, it would use up 1200Wh in that hour. But otherwise, it is only going to use up power faster when you are actually running at the higher power consumption levels.

No matter what size battery, they will drain quick. For round numbers a 48V battery that is 10 Amps will offer 480 Watts.

Do you mean 10Amps (A) or 10Amp-hours (Ah)? If the former, then you are simply talking about the maximum current delivery capability of hte battery, not it's capacity. If the latter, then yes that is the approximate capacity of the battery, depending on what LVC and HVC it has, so you know what percentage of the full capacity of the cels you actually get. Easily tested by fully charging it with it's normal charger, hooking to a wattmeter, and discharging it till LVC cuts off discharge, then you know exactly how many Wh it can provide under those discharge conditions.

 

[anthony_prodeco]

Second, the wiring is thicker for the 48V system to handle the increased load. The brass pin configuration is great for the 500W motor and up to 25 Amps coming through. The 48V system with 25 Amps coming through (1200 Watt peak) requires a lower gauge (thicker) wire system.

AFAIK, wiring thickness is not normally based on power thru the wire, but only current, as resistance to current is what drives the power loss thru the cable. So unless there is a poor connection (high resistance) somewhere, then the same current at higher voltage should have no difference in power supplied thru (or voltage drop across) the cabling vs same current at lower voltage, as far as your battery cabling goes.

Regarding *motor* cabling from the controller, that might need to be thicker to handle the increased motor (phase) currents, if what you already have is not sufficient to prevent overheating. However, unless that cabling is already running very hot, there shoudl be no need to upgrade it to go up from 36V to 48V at the same battery current; it's not that much of a total power increase and shouldnt' be that much of a phase current increase, unless your controller for the higher voltage is also capable of much more extreme phase currents for long periods.


RESPONSE FROM PRODECO TCHNOLOIES: I was discussing if switching controllers to increase peak from 720 watt to 1200 watt. the brass pin configuration on the current 500 watt is already at it' safety limit and should not have additional current pass through it. For example, our 48V system is the same motor as the 36V system basically. It will however have been produced with the lowe gauge wiring to accept the peak to 1200 watts. I understand the 1200 watts whether 36V, 48V or for that matter 120V would not matter as far as thickness of wire. Current is the only determing factor.

You must also keep in mind the motors are set at the hall sensors in the stator to a limited RPM. Higher Amps will give improved take off speed but will not affect top RPM too much unless the motor was no set to a lower RPM.

I suspect you mean that they are set in the *controller* to a specific RPM maximum; the hall sensors themselves can't limit the RPM of the motor. (unless you have installed electronics inside the motor at the hall sensors to cease sending hall signals, thus halting the controller, once a specific number of pulses-per-second or whatever has been reached, which would seem an odd way to do it--or some other such mechanism).

Doing it in the controller is a very common way of limiting speed; many controllers have a jumper to enable/disable this limit.

RESPONSE FROM PRODECO TCHNOLOIES: We understand about doing it through the controller. Most smart controllers today will allow you to do so via a USB port and software. ASI puts out a great smart controller which we may use on our 28mph bike to allow the rider to govern his choices and disctate his distance. We however do it right at the hall sensor on the street legal units and avoid the rider's ability to change it maitaining the street legals status and as important the warranty. Some of the geared motors should not be pushed besides we want to maintain distances per charge.

On a side note, keep in mind battery storage is measured also Volts multiplied by Amps.

Actually, capacity is measured as Volts multiplied by Amp-Hours. It is a very important distinction.

RESPONSE FROM PRODECO TCHNOLOIES: 100% Agree. Batteries are always by Amps per Hour and controllers are Amps (current). I was typing so fast and should have re-read my response.

If you have a controller that is 48V 25Ag, you will peak at 1200Watt which means you are consuming 1200 Watts per Hour.

Not if you are only peaking at that power level.

RESPONSE FROM PRODECO TCHNOLOIES: 100% agree but if motor is limte consumption drops and peak is achieved only on the way up.

If you are running continuously at that higher power level, then yes, it would use up 1200Wh in that hour. But otherwise, it is only going to use up power faster when you are actually running at the higher power consumption levels.

RESPONSE FROM PRODECO TCHNOLOIES: 100% agree and why the battery would not be consumed at 1200.

No matter what size battery, they will drain quick. For round numbers a 48V battery that is 10 Amps will offer 480 Watts.

Do you mean 10Amps (A) or 10Amp-hours (Ah)?

RESPONSE FROM PRODECO TCHNOLOIES: I meant Ah (amps per hour) and again typing fast. I rarely if ever go on forums but realize I need to be a little more careful when discusinng capacity versus consumption and current.

If the former, then you are simply talking about the maximum current delivery capability of hte battery, not it's capacity. If the latter, then yes that is the approximate capacity of the battery, depending on what LVC and HVC it has, so you know what percentage of the full capacity of the cels you actually get. Easily tested by fully charging it with it's normal charger, hooking to a wattmeter, and discharging it till LVC cuts off discharge, then you know exactly how many Wh it can provide under those discharge conditions.

RESPONSE FROM PRODECO TCHNOLOIES: Mentioning current capability and for the consumers to understand what the limits of our systems are. We have the Battery Management Boards allowing for a max of 3C, 3 X Current. For the 9Ah, it will be 27 and for the 12Ah, it will be 36 but only use 20 Amp controllers. On the new 48V it is 27Ah (9Ah x 3) but use 25 Amp controllers for the 1200 peak. Keep in mind since the speed of the motor is limited at the motor, the peak would not be continuous. We are debating on the street legal 20mph models to limit it to a 20 Amp controller. Distance on the 48V 25A suffers but if the rider knows how to use the throttle, they could be OK.

 

[anthony_prodeco]

I just received my Phantom X2 last week on 8/22/12. Purchased new from eBay. I received it and immediately noticed that the wheels wouldn't move very easily and found that the disc brakes were preventing the wheels from turning freely. I tried adjusting them using the instructions in the manual, but no luck, so I took it to a local bike shop. They told me that they wouldn't work on the bike because it was an e-bike, so they directed me to an e-bike dealer a few miles away. The e-bike dealer did their best to get them adjusted properly and even had to add some washers get some space between the pads and the disc, but they still rub a bit. I'm going to try living with them for awhile since there doesn't seem to be a way to get the brakes to stop rubbing completely without replacing them.

Aside from the issue with the brakes, so far I'm enjoying my first e-bike experience. I've been able to get the bike up to 25mph (verified by a radar speed limit sign in my neighborhood) without any trouble at full throttle and with some fast pedaling. The bike seems to be built like a tank and is pretty heavy, but it moves like a much lighter bike at full throttle.

I contacted Prodeco directly to ask a simple question via their website about 2 weeks ago and never received a response, so I'm not optimistic that they will be responsive if I really need them for something important. Luckily, I can drive to their location directly without too much trouble if I ever need to.

I've definitely been bitten by the e-bike bug now and can see myself buying another one someday as the technology and range improves, but I like that the Prodeco Phantom X2 has a 40 mile range at 20mph, so I'm sure it will keep me entertained for awhile.

Hi, this is Rob Provost, the CEO of Prodeco Technologies and today for the first time I am reviewing messages on Endless Sphere and doing my best to answer them. I apologize if you contacted our company an nobody wrote back. That is unlike us and where the company gets tremendous amounts of emails everyday, we strive to asnwer each one. We are improving our customer service department. Please always feel free to call.

In regards to your issue. First, we offer free brake pads for the life of the bikes. The bikes leave our factory with the brakes adjusted tight and rubbing but never too tight. There is no doubt about that they are tight for the first 25 miles or so. We do that for the bedding of the pads. The brakes use also have inboard adjusting pad knobs which take them in and out. The outside pad can be adjusted via the cable but this is not recommended. The brake caliper itself has oblong holes which allow the caliper to move freely from side to side. There is not much adjusting but there is some. Recently we have made a 3mm adjustment to the spindle of the motor and how it sits in the dropouts. This allowed for the brake to have a higher adjusting ability but we also redesigned the dropouts themselves to accomodate the change. If you ever want to stop by our facility and have a tech review your bike, please feel free to do so. We will do so for no charge. There could also be the issue of a bent rotor that may be bent inwards or outwards.

There was also a message after yours of someone mentioning Karma, he does not seem a fan of our company for some reason. I am not sure why when all we do is try to build the best bike for the best price. We eliminated all middle channels and build the bikes ourselves in our facility in FL. Do we make each component, of course not and who does in this world. I doubt Shimano, Avid, SRAM, KMC, Promax, Velo, etc.. would appreciate that. We do however buy from each componemt supplier (22 of them as of today) and build the bikes ourselves on our own unique designed frames and battery systems. Motors are built to our specs but not by us. We have never claimed so otherwise other than building the bike the same way Specialized, Optibike, etc.. do it. There is no longer small parts made in the USA and it is why we have to state "Built in the USA". We build each bike and it takes anywhere from 6 hours to 8 hours. Each wheel is laced in our facility by a team of 6 wheel builders who do nothing but build wheels each day. I am not sure why the person leaving the message is so upset with our company and mention bad Karma other than he is probably a competitor. Yes, the competitors dislike us and making it known.

Please feel free to contact us. If a message does not make it through or someone did not respond, please try contacting again. It is unintentional if that happened.

 

[casemon]

@Rob Prodeco
1) Precisely when can we buy the 48V model? If you cannot be precise, offer a date range?

2) How to modify your controllers for more speed? Thanks to be precise.

Note: this is largely a DIY community, with a ton of precise technical expertise, so please understand we don't take well to placating / marketing speech.

Be direct, be honest and you'll make customers; anything less and you'll get a bad rep among people who your customers typically take advice from.

Thanks for the consideration,

casemon

 

[csm]

Hi Guys, this is Rob Provost, the CEO of Prodeco Technologies. ...If you guys ever wanted, I could set up a Q & A chat session for an hour or so on a week night where anyone can ask me any question about Prodeco Technologies and I will answer them. There will be no topic banned and there is no question I will not answer. That is only if there is interest....

That is great Rob. I am interested in that. Perhaps you could also open up to answer questions that are email to you too? and post the transcript of the chat on your website, on your facebook page, and here, so people who are not able to attend, can review your q and a. thanks!

 

[PhantomX2Biker]

Hi, this is Rob Provost, the CEO of Prodeco Technologies and today for the first time I am reviewing messages on Endless Sphere and doing my best to answer them. I apologize if you contacted our company an nobody wrote back. That is unlike us and where the company gets tremendous amounts of emails everyday, we strive to asnwer each one. We are improving our customer service department. Please always feel free to call.

In regards to your issue. First, we offer free brake pads for the life of the bikes. The bikes leave our factory with the brakes adjusted tight and rubbing but never too tight. There is no doubt about that they are tight for the first 25 miles or so. We do that for the bedding of the pads. The brakes use also have inboard adjusting pad knobs which take them in and out. The outside pad can be adjusted via the cable but this is not recommended. The brake caliper itself has oblong holes which allow the caliper to move freely from side to side. There is not much adjusting but there is some. Recently we have made a 3mm adjustment to the spindle of the motor and how it sits in the dropouts. This allowed for the brake to have a higher adjusting ability but we also redesigned the dropouts themselves to accomodate the change. If you ever want to stop by our facility and have a tech review your bike, please feel free to do so. We will do so for no charge. There could also be the issue of a bent rotor that may be bent inwards or outwards.

There was also a message after yours of someone mentioning Karma, he does not seem a fan of our company for some reason. I am not sure why when all we do is try to build the best bike for the best price. We eliminated all middle channels and build the bikes ourselves in our facility in FL. Do we make each component, of course not and who does in this world. I doubt Shimano, Avid, SRAM, KMC, Promax, Velo, etc.. would appreciate that. We do however buy from each componemt supplier (22 of them as of today) and build the bikes ourselves on our own unique designed frames and battery systems. Motors are built to our specs but not by us. We have never claimed so otherwise other than building the bike the same way Specialized, Optibike, etc.. do it. There is no longer small parts made in the USA and it is why we have to state "Built in the USA". We build each bike and it takes anywhere from 6 hours to 8 hours. Each wheel is laced in our facility by a team of 6 wheel builders who do nothing but build wheels each day. I am not sure why the person leaving the message is so upset with our company and mention bad Karma other than he is probably a competitor. Yes, the competitors dislike us and making it known.

Please feel free to contact us. If a message does not make it through or someone did not respond, please try contacting again. It is unintentional if that happened.

Rob, thanks for your response. Seeing you take the time to read and respond to comments here gives me confidence in your company and makes me want to purchase more bikes from you in the future. Speaking of which, is it possible to purchase bikes directly from your factory in-person?

Overall, I'm very happy with my Phantom X2, but after 40 miles, I'm still having some noise issues with the brakes and may take you up on your offer to have your tech look at my bike. I'm a couple hours away, but it would be worth the road trip to get everything adjusted properly.

 

[anthony_prodeco]

@Rob Prodeco
1) Precisely when can we buy the 48V model? If you cannot be precise, offer a date range?

This is Rob Provost again, CEO of Prodeco Technologies. The 48V model is shipping in November. The prototypes have been built for some time and went through extensive testing. We had to increase the thickness of the battery case by 1mm all around and the slide rail and slot by 1.5mm. It was the last revision before production. We however have to produce this bike on a new production line and it cannot be done in our current building. Our new building is ready the end of October and production starts in November. They will be on the website in 3 weeks.

2) How to modify your controllers for more speed? Thanks to be precise.

PRODECO TECHNOLOGIES RESPONSE: On current controllers there is no modifying but we have 2 versions, a 20mph and 28mph. We have tested consistently at the 28mph ( flat surface with no wind). The worst we received and that was over loading the bike to 280 lbs was 27mph. The issue at these speeds the rider cannot pedal fast enough so the battery is draining quick. We started for all 2013 models to use DNP Epoch's new 11T 8 speed freewheel on all rear drive bikes. The 11T allows the rider to pedal along up to a higher speed. Keep in mind DNP recently upgraded their freewheels with a better lubrication seal and additional lubrication. There was an issue a year or so ago with a % not having enough lubricant and noisy. That has since been solved and why we are utilizing them. There are also a few versions of the DNP Epoch freewheel. We are using the highest grade freewheel they offer and it is completely nickel plated. The others they have are silver zinc plated which we did not like. The zinc plated are 60% less expensive but we do not cut corners anywhere. About the controller, we were looking at leaving a 48V 25A on the 28mph and for the 20mph versions bring it down to 20A, so 2 versions but neither can be modified for now. The reason for 2 is due to the 20A draining the battery slower and allowing a further difference. There have been improved results in testing without sacrificing too much power. The 25A will drain the battery in about 15-17 miles with no pedaling. The 20A will get us to the coveted 20 mile mark. It is then up to the rider to use the power accordingly to get the furthest distance. Keep in mind if the rider undertsands how to throttle the bike and pedal along the most efficient way, the 17 miles can be increased by 50% if not more. If they will ride at 28mph all the time, the distance remains just under 20mph.

For upgraded controllers or controllers shipping next season, we may be switching controllers on all our 500W and up bikes to the ASI BAC500 controller. This is a programmable controller either by software or a separate programming box. We have been in discussion with ASI (Accelerated Systems) about develoing the BAC500 for our bikes. We already will be implementing the BAC500 on our European pedal assist bikes with torque sensors only. The BAC500 also has regenerative breaking and we may use the feature for the 48V 750W so we can get that 20 miles per charge with no pedaling on the 28mph bike. There will be no modification and the controller will plug into all previous 500W bikes as well. The controller is available in 36V and 48V. The software programmin is the best way but it will not be available to everyone. We would prefer doing the programming request for a customer. With that said, for some of the guys on this forum who know what they are doing and probably know more than me, haha, we will allow them to program and maintain the warranty. Speaking about controllers, this past year for pedal assist controllers, we test the Victory system. There were so many parameters that could be programmed. The RPM of the motor was one but also the take off speed, toque in the low range had a setting then mid range and also high range. There were 8 parameters with a setting of 1 to 250 for each. The combinations were endless and we were looking at it for Europe but it was complicating. The controller has a separate programming box and a programming module. It was done with LEDs and a mode with pick the parameter and then the up and down keys would choose the setting. This is for pedal assist only, not throttle bikes. The controller is made in China but the quality was decent. We preferred at the end with working with ASI in Canada for them to produce the controller.

Note: this is largely a DIY community, with a ton of precise technical expertise, so please understand we don't take well to placating / marketing speech.

PRODECO TECHNOLOGIES: I do apologize if I come across that way. Maybe being the CEO I self promote the company too much automatically when writing and speaking. I hope I do not come across that way or it seems I do. I understand that cab ne insulting and I do apologize ahead if it ever happens or seems that way. I feel also people think we are an arrogant company and we are not. We are the largest group of down to earth guys you ever want to meet. The problem is the company grew so fast even though we have been around for 4 years going on 5. I have been in this industry since 2006 and prior to that we were an electronics manufacturer. When the company grew so fast we took all our resources which included money, time, people, energy, etc.. and put it into production. We stayed away from the public eye and only worked on building the bikes. We are now up to 48 employees and production is faster than ever. We recently sold part of the company to a Venture Capitlaist group and now taking it all the way. Our new produciton facility is state of the art and will allow us to keep up with the demand. We know there were a lot of upset people this past year due from dealers taking orders they could not fill. We were explaining to dealers delivery time was increasing and production was maxed out. Everyday we were getting deeper and deeper in orders and as production increased we finally were able to fill them all. We are now at about a 2 week delivery period and worst case 4 weeks. We were hitting though 11 weeks this past summer. Some dealers were still telling customers 2 weeks, hence the upset customers. There were dealers who were placing orders in advance and had inventory but a few internet ones were not being honest to their customers and just wanted the sale. We have closed those dealers down since. The reason I mention all of the above is I believe there are many Endless Sphere members who despise our company for some reason. We are not sure why but they do. Like that guy saying Karma comes around. I think to myself, what did we do to upset that guy, He does not even own one of our bikes and he is wishing bad Karma on us. We believe we finally produced an electric bike at the right price with the right quality. Our company easily will be around for the next decade and since all the middlemen are not existent in our company and we are direct to the source, we are actually profitable and can sustain. We want to make the best bikes for everyone bottom line and for the DIY community, all our parts are available at those low prices. If someone just wants a battery, they can get it. We are working with a few dealers for them to offer all our components individually. Motors, controllers, wire harness, throttles, etc... The only parts we can't offer by themselves with be parts such as SRAM, Shimano, Continental, etc.. we have special OEM agreements that do not allow us to resell those components. The components we manufature ourselves, we can do so.

Be direct, be honest and you'll make customers; anything less and you'll get a bad rep among people who your customers typically take advice from.

PRODECO TECHNOLOGIES RESPONSE: I will do my best to come across as direct as possible. One thing for sure and every single person that has known me over the past 20 years of being in the business world knows I am extremely honest, never lie, and overly fair. Thank you for wirting and maing it clear to us how to behave on this forum. I also cannot get to all the comments but will try my best. We are adding new people to manage our internet reputation and you will see this improve in the future with quicker response and to answer questions whether on here or other forums. We just here there is so much negative writing about our company on Endless Sphere and we cannot figure it out other than the were told the good comments get deleted, a few dealers caused a huge uproar (dealers are now closed) and that too many bike buyers come on sharing the experience not realizing this is DIY forum and the forum members think it is our company going on there leaving fake reviews. If we ever caught anybody in our company leaving fake reviews or being dishonest in anyway, they would be terminated. That also goes for dealers. I have no issue closing a dealer account who is not honest. If you ever come across any, email them to me. My email is rob at our company website address. We have never once left a fake review or any review for that matter. I cannot stand companies that do that and I know of a few of our competitors not only leave fake reviews for their bikes but then leave fake reviews to trash our bikes. We have been reviewing each one and started case files on them. Thank you again Casemon for taking the time to write and askingt the questions.

Thanks for the consideration,

casemon

 

[anthony_prodeco]

Hi Guys, this is Rob Provost, the CEO of Prodeco Technologies. ...If you guys ever wanted, I could set up a Q & A chat session for an hour or so on a week night where anyone can ask me any question about Prodeco Technologies and I will answer them. There will be no topic banned and there is no question I will not answer. That is only if there is interest....

That is great Rob. I am interested in that. Perhaps you could also open up to answer questions that are email to you too? and post the transcript of the chat on your website, on your facebook page, and here, so people who are not able to attend, can review your q and a. thanks!

PRODECO TECHNOLOGIES RESPONSE: i can definitely do that and excited about it. We can do via email and copy the transcripts but I don't know if Endless Sphere would like that. The post I wrote about it did have an email address I set up specially for it but they did not post it. I do not blame them also in one bit. This is their forum and it is not for someone like me to come here and take discussion away. I could also try to do it on this forum but it is hard. There are so many questions that come up and all over the forum. I am not too good at navigating through forums and I think I might find myself answering the wrong querstions, haha. You can always email me at my website address. It is rob at the website address and maybe the Endless Sphere moderator might let that through. If I do not post the reply, you are more than welcome too. Anything I ever say by email can be posted. I would never ask anyone not to post something I said.

 

[anthony_prodeco]

Hi, this is Rob Provost, the CEO of Prodeco Technologies and today for the first time I am reviewing messages on Endless Sphere and doing my best to answer them. I apologize if you contacted our company an nobody wrote back. That is unlike us and where the company gets tremendous amounts of emails everyday, we strive to asnwer each one. We are improving our customer service department. Please always feel free to call.

In regards to your issue. First, we offer free brake pads for the life of the bikes. The bikes leave our factory with the brakes adjusted tight and rubbing but never too tight. There is no doubt about that they are tight for the first 25 miles or so. We do that for the bedding of the pads. The brakes use also have inboard adjusting pad knobs which take them in and out. The outside pad can be adjusted via the cable but this is not recommended. The brake caliper itself has oblong holes which allow the caliper to move freely from side to side. There is not much adjusting but there is some. Recently we have made a 3mm adjustment to the spindle of the motor and how it sits in the dropouts. This allowed for the brake to have a higher adjusting ability but we also redesigned the dropouts themselves to accomodate the change. If you ever want to stop by our facility and have a tech review your bike, please feel free to do so. We will do so for no charge. There could also be the issue of a bent rotor that may be bent inwards or outwards.

There was also a message after yours of someone mentioning Karma, he does not seem a fan of our company for some reason. I am not sure why when all we do is try to build the best bike for the best price. We eliminated all middle channels and build the bikes ourselves in our facility in FL. Do we make each component, of course not and who does in this world. I doubt Shimano, Avid, SRAM, KMC, Promax, Velo, etc.. would appreciate that. We do however buy from each componemt supplier (22 of them as of today) and build the bikes ourselves on our own unique designed frames and battery systems. Motors are built to our specs but not by us. We have never claimed so otherwise other than building the bike the same way Specialized, Optibike, etc.. do it. There is no longer small parts made in the USA and it is why we have to state "Built in the USA". We build each bike and it takes anywhere from 6 hours to 8 hours. Each wheel is laced in our facility by a team of 6 wheel builders who do nothing but build wheels each day. I am not sure why the person leaving the message is so upset with our company and mention bad Karma other than he is probably a competitor. Yes, the competitors dislike us and making it known.

Please feel free to contact us. If a message does not make it through or someone did not respond, please try contacting again. It is unintentional if that happened.

Rob, thanks for your response. Seeing you take the time to read and respond to comments here gives me confidence in your company and makes me want to purchase more bikes from you in the future. Speaking of which, is it possible to purchase bikes directly from your factory in-person?

Overall, I'm very happy with my Phantom X2, but after 40 miles, I'm still having some noise issues with the brakes and may take you up on your offer to have your tech look at my bike. I'm a couple hours away, but it would be worth the road trip to get everything adjusted properly.

PRODECO TECHNOLOGIES RESPONSE: This is Rob Provost again. Please bring the bike to us. We will be more than happy to look at the issue and replace whatever is needed. We do not want a bike out there that is not 100% because besides the customer not being happy, anybody that rides or sees the bike will be wondering why the issue. On a side note about the brakes: for 2013, we are switching to all AVID brakes. There will be BB5 on some, BB7 on some, Elixir 5 on some and Elixir XO on 2 models. Even though the BB5 were made in the same factory as the Promax 715 you have on the bike, and the pads are even the same, we did have some issue with noise and alignment. A big part was due to the 203 rotors being so large and more flexible. We decided to go to 180 rotors for 2013 but the HSX Avid rotors. They are very strong and a 2 piece rotor design. Those will also have the BB7 front and rear. As far as selling to the public, we get that one a lot. There are a few times we will sell to the public. We have an exclusive dealer in our area and they are very passionate about electric bikes. Some customers get rubbed the wrong way but want our bike or some customers are the opposite direction and we do not have a dealer North of us for 40 miles, so in those cases the answer is yes, but it will be done through a separate store. We expect minimal sales this way and usually refer everyone to our local dealer that is south and has 2 locations. If we accept orders by phone? The answer is sometimes but rare and we prefer not to. It depends on the situation and who the customer is. With the recent fiasco we had with an internet dealer we find out later was working out of a mail box address, we changed the rules. That dealer was making promises which were impossible. This year we are cleaning up our dealer base but for the most part, it is good at the present. Last week an unauthorized dealer came up and we had to go after them. If someone phones us and they do not have a local dealer within 20 miles, we usually still will send to one of our strongest internet dealers who are stocking of have orders forecasted. If the caller is someone who is a magazine writer, forum operator, shop owner, etc.. we then will assist them. We expect by next year to have a large enough dealer base that there would never be the need to send my mail order. Hopefully a dealer will be close to someone. The website will soon have a feature listing the top 10 dealers for internet sales. We also want to have a social forum for bike owners only. There will be a photo section and free accessories. For now, Please bring the bike by. If you call and someone does not respond back, call them back and tell them Robert Provost will be furious if they do not call you back. The customer service manager is also Rob but we call him Rob L. This week we added to new people in service. One will be another voice on the phone to handle questions and the other is overseeing a complete new policy and set of procedures for customer service. About 2 weeks ago also, our phone system started having an intermittent issue where it the automated operator was not picking up and the phone was not even ringing. It happened 3 times. We have been going back and forth with AT&T our local provider and the phone system company on why it happened. If calling and the automated operator does not pick up, try again. By email, we have no excuse unless the spam folder grabbed it but the service guys are supposed to check those also. I will send a memo out Tuesday about responding within 24 hours. A few months back I gave our group a hard time about that and I will do it again. I am a firm believer each and every sale should be considered as the only sale ever and the customer is always Number 1. Messages by phone should be answered within an hour and ny email within that same day. Thank you for the support and I am glad you love the bike outside the brake issue so lets get that brake issue taken care of for you. Since you are a couple hours aways, I will let you choose any accessory we have for free since you made the effort to come see us.

 

[PhantomX2Biker]

This is Rob Provost again, CEO of Prodeco Technologies. The 48V model is shipping in November. The prototypes have been built for some time and went through extensive testing. We had to increase the thickness of the battery case by 1mm all around and the slide rail and slot by 1.5mm. It was the last revision before production. We however have to produce this bike on a new production line and it cannot be done in our current building. Our new building is ready the end of October and production starts in November. They will be on the website in 3 weeks.

Do you know what the retail price will be for the 48V model? Also, is there a new name for this model?

 

[anthony_prodeco]

This is Rob Provost again, CEO of Prodeco Technologies. The 48V model is shipping in November. The prototypes have been built for some time and went through extensive testing. We had to increase the thickness of the battery case by 1mm all around and the slide rail and slot by 1.5mm. It was the last revision before production. We however have to produce this bike on a new production line and it cannot be done in our current building. Our new building is ready the end of October and production starts in November. They will be on the website in 3 weeks.

Do you know what the retail price will be for the 48V model? Also, is there a new name for this model?

PRODECO TECHNOLOGIES RESPONSE: I have to be carefull here about advertising the bikes. The moderator does not want any of that. Please look at our website in 3 weeks. The bikes will be explained in detail there. The price is higher but not so much because of the 48V or 750W. There is no real additonal cost of the motor from 36V 500W 12Ah going to 48V 750W 9Ah. Crystalite explains it best on their website. We do not use Crystalite motors but they explain it well. Battery Price: The 36V 12Ah (38.4V X 12Ah - 460W) is basically the same capacity of the 48V 9Ah (51.2 X 9Ah = 460W), they both have 460W capacity. The 48V has a higher cost management board but that is only about $8 our cost. The charger has to put out increased wattage if wanting to stay with charging at 2 Amps but again, that is about $10. The controller is also a little higher in cost and about $9 more. If we use the BAC500 from ASI on all 500W and up, the cost for the controller is then the same because the BAC500 does 24V-48V with a 60A peak. The price is higher of the 48V due to the components. The bike is set now to have Elixir 5 Hydraulic brakes ($350 brake system), XO shifter, X9 derailleur, double crown Magnesium fork with aluminum stanchions, Stainless Steel Sealed bearing across the entire bike (no retainer or cartridge bearings), Continental tires and other items. The name is the Outlaw, and there is the Outlaw SE, Outlaw XE and Outlaw SS

 

[Alan B]

Thanks for your postings here Daniel (/ Rob ). Good to see manufacturers make decent ebikes.

Just to be accurate on battery capacity, volts time amp hours gives watt hours.

 

[anthony_prodeco]

Thanks for your postings here Daniel. Good to see manufacturers make decent ebikes.

Just to be accurate on battery capacity, volts time amp hours gives watt hours.

PRODECO TECHNOLOGIES RESPONSE: Hi Alan, thank you and this is Rob Provost, the CEO of Prodeco Technologies who has wrote these last 2 days. I used Daniel's account because it was already established and I know accounts have to be approved. Originally I thought just to write a few things but found myself enjoying it and kept on going for a few days now. I will open my own Endless Sphere account.

Yes, on battery capacity is determind by the Volts X Amp Hours = Watt Hours. I should have clarified that and always leaving the hours part out. Thank you again Alan and have a great Labor Day weekend.

 

[Racer_X]

Hello Rob Provost, I like the Prodeco Phantom X and would really like to get one, and I am really enjoying reading what you have to say but can you do me a favor and not use bold font? Hurts my eyes to read bold font when there is so much text.

Thanks in advanced

 

[casemon]

@Rob Prodeco
Thank you for the detailed information re: 48V. Decided not to wait until Nov. and just pick up a 36V this week, to upgrade later.

Also, thank you for your sincere effort in being forthcoming with everyone; refreshing! (people are increasingly wise to the number of scoundrels in the e-bike space!)

 

[anthony_prodeco]

Hello Rob Provost, I like the Prodeco Phantom X and would really like to get one, and I am really enjoying reading what you have to say but can you do me a favor and not use bold font? Hurts my eyes to read bold font when there is so much text.

Thanks in advanced

PRODECO TECHNOLOGIES RESPONSE: I aplogize Racer X, I did not realize it came across that way when reading. When I was answering some other posts, I wanted my response not to blend with the previous response because on some, I was responding between the paragraphs. That is also why I am adding the PRODECO TECHNOLOGIES RESPONSE. I will get the hang of this betterand learn quick how to write in response making it look correct. Thanks for the heads up, Rob Provost