Recumbent tadpole motor and drivetrain choice

[sigimem]

I am thinking about building a recumbent tilting tadpole sometime. I would like to have something similiar to the tripendo trike [youtube]bJESTiPFGiA[/youtube]
German unfortunately (nothing funny or important anyway )

Specs of the trike:
- Eu legal 250W Pedelec (with option for more power when wanted)
- Can carry my heavy ass and luggage without any problem
- enough starting torque (no limit of max short time power in the EU)
- Range of about 80 km-100km


But time is short I have other projects that will come first so realistic expectation what might be doable is:

Weld together a rather heavy frame with a motorcycle swingarm (maybe rear frame and swingarm) front A-arms of a china quad and custom steering system based on available parts. Front wheels could be something like this maybe with a drum brake instead of a disc brake.
I am guessing a gross weigth of about 200 kg right now (40kg frame and wheels,25kg electrical components, 15 kg luggage, the rest is me )

What tyres would you use to achieve relatively low rolling resistance and puncture resistance?

(Crazy Bob in front moped tyre in the back?)
(more narrow moped tyre in the front wider moped tyre in the back?)

What kind of motor and drivetrain whould you use? I currently see 4 options

1 Direct drive motor with derailleur. efficient at constant speeds, low noise, durable not so hassle free because of derailleur
2 Geared Motor with derailleur. more efficient at the start, probably more torque at this power level, more noise,
3 Trike Motor for Example Goldenmotor 800W and gearhub
4 Big block alternative and Nuvinci Developer Hub in the back. Up to 5kw power, nice starts, least efficient at constant speeds, no shifting (once installed and programmed)
motor could be changed at the last two options


Any help would be nice

 

[docnjoj]

Quite a bit of lightweight engineering went into the tilting trikes I know about. Steintrikes makes the Wild Wave, cheaper than Tripendo but still not cheap.
otherDoc

 

[sigimem]

I did not found much information on the steintrike is it still in production?

So you think it will weigh too much if build this way? Or do you doubt the estimated 40kg?

 

[docnjoj]

I did not found much information on the steintrike is it still in production?

So you think it will weigh too much if build this way? Or do you doubt the estimated 40kg?

They just started production of the tilting trike (WildWave) and it weighs in at about 23 kilos or so. My Mad Max weighs about 40 kilos with motor and batteries as well as toolkit. These folks worked at least 3 years on the tilt, since that is when I first mentioned it to Viktor Horvatski, their Chief Engineer. So apparently it takes a lot of effort to build a successful one. Around 4500 euro, I believe. Cheaper than tripendo, but certainly not cheap.

 

[sigimem]

I found a forum where the steintrike builder stated his leaning mechanism works by balancing your weight.

What I have seen and read about the tripendo you tilt with a lever so it´s a different system. There are actually two levers on the tripendo one for steering the other one for tilting.

I hope the lever system is not as hard to realize. I have something in mind that's similar to a steering system but moves a sled on a linear bearing both wheels connected to the sled this will cause one wheel to go up the other down. Kind of difficult to explaining will try to make a mockup.

The leaning system will be the hardest part of the whole project that's for sure

You have a lot of experience with trikes I guess.
What motor and drivetrain would you choose?

 

[docnjoj]

The motor always depends on what you want to do with the trike. I ran a Direct Drive 9 Continent clone for several years. 36 volt A123 battery. Top speed about 21-22 mph (about 35 km/h). I recently changed to a new Xiongda 2 speed motor with a top speed about 25 km/h. It also climbs real well but at only about 12 km/h. In high gear it is very quiet.There are certainly faster motors which use perhaps 48 volts and can go 40-50 km/h, but I don't need that kind of speed on a bike path. We ride about 20 miles 5-6 time a week. we also use the trikes for some errands.
otherDoc
edit: I think the Tilting Steintrike has springs that limit the tilt angle and pressure required and a lockout for traffic. Not sure since I have not ridden one.

 

[sigimem]

So how do you like the new motor? What rear wheelsize do you have?
Could you also post some numbers on efficiency?
Maybe this motor is torquey enough for my planned trike

 

[docnjoj]

So how do you like the new motor? What rear wheelsize do you have?
Could you also post some numbers on efficiency?
Maybe this motor is torquey enough for my planned trike

So far I like it but we are problem solving with a relatively minor but necessary problem. The motor is quiet, powerful and light. It "dithers" with the auto shift on hills, but the Xiongda folks are sending me the latest controller which should fix the problem of the shifting. Manual shift by the button is flawless. The ride is much better with this light motor than the old heavy 9Continent DD. Over a 20 mile course the efficiency is about the same as the 9C. My trike uses about 15 w/hr per mile or about 12 amp/hrs per trip@ 36 volts. I have 20" wheels. I think that at 12S Lipo or 48 volts the power would be good for a regular commute. Mine is a bit slow for that but perfect @ 36 volts for the bikepaths we use. Top speed is about 16 mph in high gear.
otherDoc

 

[sigimem]

That sounds really nice. What would you say about your pedaling effort? So you have a range of about 65km/ 40 miles? Is it a rather flat terrain?

 

[docnjoj]

That sounds really nice. What would you say about your pedaling effort? So you have a range of about 65km/ 40 miles? Is it a rather flat terrain?

Well it's flat except for the 5-7% 1.5 mile hill we need to climb at the end. In low gear the motor goes slow and I pedal like crazy but it does not get hot at all. I was quite amazed. Probably 30+ mile range, but I can't ride that long. 20 works fine for exercise and fun. Definitely a good little motor. Read the thread on "2 speed motor".
otherDoc