Tabless design cylindrical cells tests

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What about this other new cell? Anybody hear of this one? I just order 5 samples to test.

The numbers looks impressive, charging capabilities and cycle life. We need to see if is true.

Reliance INR21700-RS50 Specifications

Summary
Cell Type: INR21700-RS50
Nominal Voltage: 3.6V
Nominal Capacity: 4950mAh (minimum)
Max Continuous Discharge: 70A (with 80°C temperature cutoff)
Max Continuous Charge: 15A
Standard Charge: 2.5A (0.5C) CCCV to 4.2V, 100mA cutoff
Fast Charge: 15A (3C) CCCV to 4.2V
Impedance (ACIR @1kHz): ≤4.0 mΩ
Discharge Cutoff Voltage: 2.5V
Charge Temperature Range: 0°C to 60°C
Discharge Temperature Range: -40°C to 80°C
Weight: ≤67g
Dimensions (Max): Ø 21.35mm x 70.30mm

Storage Temperature:
1 year: -20°C to 25°C
3 months: -20°C to 45°C
1 month: -20°C to 60°C

Cycle Life
Test Condition: 25°C, 8A charge / 40A discharge
Result: 400 cycles with ≥60% capacity retention

Test Condition: 25°C, 15A charge / 30A discharge
Result: 400 cycles with ≥60% capacity retention

Test Condition: 0°C, 8A charge / 10A discharge
Result: 200 cycles with ≥80% capacity retention

Test Condition: -10°C, 3A charge / 10A discharge
Result: 50 cycles with ≥80% capacity retention (Note: manufacturer does not guarantee performance/safety for charging below 0°C)

RS50 vs 50PL @ 40A. I honestly doubt it'll be able to beat the 50PL in terms of maximum CDR before heating up past 80C, or cycle life, but it might yield a little bit higher runtime at some current levels in the 15 - 35A range... I doubt it'll be able to compete with the P60B when it comes out though, not to mention the JP50 and the 50D. Very competitive market here!
 

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RS50 vs 50PL @ 40A. I honestly doubt it'll be able to beat the 50PL in terms of maximum CDR before heating up past 80C, or cycle life, but it might yield a little bit higher runtime at some current levels in the 15 - 35A range... I doubt it'll be able to compete with the P60B when it comes out though, not to mention the JP50 and the 50D. Very competitive market here!
At this point, we never know. When I first saw the EVE 50PL and noticed an IR higher than 3 mOhms, the first thing that came to my mind was, "this cell is not going to be better than the JP40," because the JP40 has an IR of around 2.4 to 2.6 mOhms. But surprise IR is not everything.

We also noticed in the performance of the 50PL that the higher the current goes over 30A, the more Ah it can discharge, which is something normally very contradicting. Talking about this with John, I believe it is just the right temperature at the right moment the sweet spot—where temperature helps lower the IR and allows the electrolytes to flow better without negatively affecting performance. We are talking about just 20 to 30 mAh more, but we see this happening between 30A and 45A.

At the end of the day, anything is possible.
 
View attachment 370931

What about this other new cell? Anybody hear of this one? I just order 5 samples to test.

The numbers looks impressive, charging capabilities and cycle life. We need to see if is true.

Reliance INR21700-RS50 Specifications

Summary
Cell Type: INR21700-RS50
Nominal Voltage: 3.6V
Nominal Capacity: 4950mAh (minimum)
Max Continuous Discharge: 70A (with 80°C temperature cutoff)
Max Continuous Charge: 15A
Standard Charge: 2.5A (0.5C) CCCV to 4.2V, 100mA cutoff
Fast Charge: 15A (3C) CCCV to 4.2V
Impedance (ACIR @1kHz): ≤4.0 mΩ
Discharge Cutoff Voltage: 2.5V
Charge Temperature Range: 0°C to 60°C
Discharge Temperature Range: -40°C to 80°C
Weight: ≤67g
Dimensions (Max): Ø 21.35mm x 70.30mm

Storage Temperature:
1 year: -20°C to 25°C
3 months: -20°C to 45°C
1 month: -20°C to 60°C

Cycle Life
Test Condition: 25°C, 8A charge / 40A discharge
Result: 400 cycles with ≥60% capacity retention

Test Condition: 25°C, 15A charge / 30A discharge
Result: 400 cycles with ≥60% capacity retention

Test Condition: 0°C, 8A charge / 10A discharge
Result: 200 cycles with ≥80% capacity retention

Test Condition: -10°C, 3A charge / 10A discharge
Result: 50 cycles with ≥80% capacity retention (Note: manufacturer does not guarantee performance/safety for charging below 0°C)
Do you know when the cells will arrive? I wanted to buy 50PL cells for my 32S battery, but unfortunately, the cells aren't mature enough for a 32S 134.4V battery. I recently received an offer for 50RS cells, which are supposedly better than 50PL cells and perfect for a 32S 134.4V battery. I don't want to invest so much money in a battery that I don't even know if it will work. Like with the last 50PL test video, I hope to see the 50RS cells in person to see if they match the datasheet. Thank you for your great videos.

Best regards

from Germany

Orkan
 
View attachment 370931

What about this other new cell? Anybody hear of this one? I just order 5 samples to test.

The numbers looks impressive, charging capabilities and cycle life. We need to see if is true.

Reliance INR21700-RS50 Specifications

Summary
Cell Type: INR21700-RS50
Nominal Voltage: 3.6V
Nominal Capacity: 4950mAh (minimum)
Max Continuous Discharge: 70A (with 80°C temperature cutoff)
Max Continuous Charge: 15A
Standard Charge: 2.5A (0.5C) CCCV to 4.2V, 100mA cutoff
Fast Charge: 15A (3C) CCCV to 4.2V
Impedance (ACIR @1kHz): ≤4.0 mΩ
Discharge Cutoff Voltage: 2.5V
Charge Temperature Range: 0°C to 60°C
Discharge Temperature Range: -40°C to 80°C
Weight: ≤67g
Dimensions (Max): Ø 21.35mm x 70.30mm

Storage Temperature:
1 year: -20°C to 25°C
3 months: -20°C to 45°C
1 month: -20°C to 60°C

Cycle Life
Test Condition: 25°C, 8A charge / 40A discharge
Result: 400 cycles with ≥60% capacity retention

Test Condition: 25°C, 15A charge / 30A discharge
Result: 400 cycles with ≥60% capacity retention

Test Condition: 0°C, 8A charge / 10A discharge
Result: 200 cycles with ≥80% capacity retention

Test Condition: -10°C, 3A charge / 10A discharge
Result: 50 cycles with ≥80% capacity retention (Note: manufacturer does not guarantee performance/safety for charging below 0°C)
So sorry to bother you, but could you please share where are you buying cells, maybe the is reliable dealer?
 
Hey @Pajda are 50PL's still being shipped to you for testing? I was really interested to see your tests, especially the cycle life.
 
Here are some news, to take with a pinch of salt:

The upcoming Molicel P60B might be a 5.5Ah cell after all, around 20Wh.
This would put BAK's 55B cell in the same ballpark, though 55B caps out around +2C charging.

edit: the P60B appears indeed to be closer to 21Wh~21.5Wh ✨
Start of production for the P60B is tentatively slated for the end of the year, but again that's unconfirmed.

In the meantime, we will see whether XA3, Molicel's first full-tab cell will get a minor energy boost, or if ultra power has remained the core focus.

It is also exciting that Ampace is moving forward with its JP50. If sampling is any indication @thermal_runaway, mass production shouldn't be too long, now. 👍

Between Molicel's P50B, EVE's 50PL, BAK's 50D, Reliance's RS50, and Ampace's JP50, as @h1tec said, it's certainly a very competitive market right now!


Molicel P60B SOP (tentative).png


P.S: About:Energy seems to have populated their entry of the P60B (here). Has sampling started? 😜

About Energy - Molicel INR-21700-P60B.png
 
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Regarding Reliance's 21700 full-tab cells that are in production, RS40 and RS50, the technical datasheets can be found here for RS40 and here for RS50. I am attaching both for simplicity.

The summary for 21700 and 46mm cells as presented on Reliance's website (source):

1749734690498.png
1749734743023.png
 

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Small update

Update:
- more cycles in 5C charts
- added separated 20A discharge chart, the reason for this is the limitation of my BTS-4000 test system to 20A. I hope to add Moli P50B running at 20A soon.
- added EVE 50PL and Ampace JP30 with 5C and 10C Voltage discharge charts.

Comments:
- my discharge charts of EVE 50PL samples from Vapcell are comparable to @ZEUS-FL or @BatteryMooch results, I just use different (Time) scale on X-axis.
- cycle life of EVE 50PL samples from Vapcell looks good so far
 
If you are in the USA and want to test lifespan, contact me i will gift 2 cells to you. I have only 2 untouched.
I really appreciate the offer but I do not have the means to test them, maybe someone else here does? Did Pajda or Mooch not need the cells to do their testing? I see Pajda just got some samples from vapcell, but I didn’t see mooch do any long term testing even in the Patreon.
 
I really appreciate the offer but I do not have the means to test them, maybe someone else here does? Did Pajda or Mooch not need the cells to do their testing? I see Pajda just got some samples from vapcell, but I didn’t see mooch do any long term testing even in the Patreon.
Takes months…🙂
Only 90 cycles in and I don’t know when it can be continued as lots of other testing to compete with.
 
I can take this task but my problem is that I can not guaranteed a constant room temperature. I will be between 25-29 degrees and limited to up to 40A testing. If you guys do not care too much about room temperature fluctuation I will take the task. I can assign one of my two 4512 Duos for the task.
 
Takes months…🙂
Only 90 cycles in and I don’t know when it can be continued as lots of other testing to compete with.
I'm sure things will only get busier in the coming months, I'm sure this isn't the last new cell we will see. Thank you for the update though!
I can take this task but my problem is that I can not guaranteed a constant room temperature. I will be between 25-29 degrees and limited to up to 40A testing. If you guys do not care too much about room temperature fluctuation I will take the task. I can assign one of my two 4512 Duos for the task.
Personally now that Pajda has gotten his hands on the 50PL for testing I think he will have it covered. Not that I don't like the extra data but the best part of his testing is the direct comparison to the other cells in the exact same conditions and charge / discharge. Maybe save that tester for a cell he cannot get his hands on, like if you can reconvince BAK to send over some samples. Tabless plus that capacity bump has me salivating, and Molicel doesn't seem to be in a rush to get samples or even announce their newest cells (P60B where are you!...) :LOL:
 
I just got this preliminar datasheet from Molicel P60B and hopefully soon I will be getting samples. Full datasheet version will be received soon. This version is not signed or have version so probably have errors or typos. Do not take this as official or final. At least we have have a good idea of what is coming. May or may not change.
 

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I just got this datasheet from Molicel P60B and hopefully soon I will be getting samples.
Thanks!

This seems to be preliminary spec list, because they misssed some common informations in the presented charts, like they do not specify the discharge current in "Discharge Rate Characteristic" chart and more important I am curious about the "Charging characteristic" chart. The voltage and current dependence does not make sense to me, as there is no reason for the drop of the charging current before the cell enters CV charging mode.
 
I just got this datasheet from Molicel P60B and hopefully soon I will be getting samples.
Yeah, the cell would REALLY benefit from going tabless as it seems to be heavily thermally limited from the fact that high discharging currents hurt the cell way more than high charging currents.

However, I am still happy to see that silicon-carbide/silicide anodes are showing the fact that they are so tough :)

I should probably share the silicide research and show that even 100% silicides (55% Si loading) have better cycle life than equivalent high quality graphite anodes due to the base materials being so tough and massively resisting the volume changes.
 
I just got this datasheet from Molicel P60B and hopefully soon I will be getting samples.
The AC resistance of the Molicel P60B is 6.5 milli-ohm. When I built my 22S 2P battery out of Gotian 32140 LFP cells, I tried to match them as best I can with an IR tester (AC) and as I recall, the IR's were between 1.8 to 2.0 milli-ohms, quite a bit lower.

What account for the 3x difference? Chemistry? anode/ cathode material? Electrolyte? All of the above?
 
Thanks!

This seems to be preliminary spec list, because they misssed some common informations in the presented charts, like they do not specify the discharge current in "Discharge Rate Characteristic" chart and more important I am curious about the "Charging characteristic" chart. The voltage and current dependence does not make sense to me, as there is no reason for the drop of the charging current before the cell enters CV charging mode.
I agree, it’s a preliminary document.
The version number is 0.1, there’s no release date below the version number, and typical data is missing. The doc is also low res so not an official Moli release. Probably copied from a Moli presentation at one of the recent trade shows.

That 1.8V discharge cutoff is interesting too. There’s 2.5V, 2.65V, and 3V in the graphs but no 1.8V. Typo? Or just for particular discharge conditions, like 100A pulses where the voltage sag is huge?

The drop in discharge current could be the effect of ion diffusion being limited somewhere. As the ions literally pile up the voltage will shift and the current could drop?
 
I agree with Mooch. That number seems like a typo and I ask my contact about that and they says most to be a typo but we will confirm with the full version of the datasheet coming soon and they will share with me.
 
The AC resistance of the Molicel P60B is 6.5 milli-ohm. When I built my 22S 2P battery out of Gotian 32140 LFP cells, I tried to match them as best I can with an IR tester (AC) and as I recall, the IR's were between 1.8 to 2.0 milli-ohms, quite a bit lower.

What account for the 3x difference? Chemistry? anode/ cathode material? Electrolyte? All of the above?
That Gotian 32140 LFP cell is what, 15ah?

Paralleled resistance is summed and divided by the total number of elements,
so let's say 3 parallel Molicel P60B = ~18ah, 6.5 milli-ohm divided by 3 = 2.1666666, fairly close to the Gotian cell.

Random link to a 100ah EVE LFP cell, they are claiming <=0.5 mΩ
EVE LF100LA 3.2V 100Ah LiFePO4 Battery

Another random 200ah sample, claiming <0.3mΩ:

Basic Ohms law.
 
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