The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

mlt34 said:
Marc S. said:
The Satiator has a 'force start' option. Just press and hold the lower button and the charging starts.
Holy crap, I can't believe I didn't see this option anywhere, this is exactly the answer Marc!
Now after you mentioned it, I found it in the manual.

Ha, I love it how the written manual always seems to be the last thing people consult when they have a problem. Not that I'm any less guilty ;)

Marc S. said:
IIRC the "Force Start" option came with one of the firmware updates.

We've had the Force Start behavior right from the getgo since I knew this was going to be an issue, it's just in one of the firmware updates we made the little pop-up window to make it more clear what was happening. The bigger problem is with some batteries that not only disable the output port, they also have enough impedance to ground that to the Satiator it looks like a short on the outputs, and so once you plug in the CS it says "short circuit fault" and then you can't start charging. That behavior will be changing soon so that you can force start even into an apparent short, but in the meantime to avoid this scenario you'd have to force start charging before plugging the Satiator into the pack.
 
justin_le said:
Marc S. said:
IIRC the "Force Start" option came with one of the firmware updates.

We've had the Force Start behavior right from the getgo since I knew this was going to be an issue, it's just in one of the firmware updates we made the little pop-up window to make it more clear what was happening.

Aah! Ok.
I think that was a feature impemented some time before I got my Satiator.

justin_le said:
The bigger problem is with some batteries that not only disable the output port, they also have enough impedance to ground that to the Satiator it looks like a short on the outputs, and so once you plug in the CS it says "short circuit fault" and then you can't start charging. That behavior will be changing soon so that you can force start even into an apparent short, but in the meantime to avoid this scenario you'd have to force start charging before plugging the Satiator into the pack.

Hmm, what will happen if you 'force start' the Satiator into an actual short?
(e.g. bridge the Satiator output lines and force start)
 
Marc S. said:
Hmm, what will happen if you 'force start' the Satiator into an actual short?
(e.g. bridge the Satiator output lines and force start)

That's one of the things we're trying to iron out here. Into a true short the worst case should be that it trips the power stage and gives the "power fault error" which can be reset but unplugging and reconnecting the Satiator. The more significant risk is doing a force start when there is a battery pack connected with reverse polarity, which also looks to the satiator like a short circuit. That would result in blowing a hardware fuse on the Satiator's circuitboard and would require opening up the device to repair, so it's not very ideal.

We should be able to tell the difference from a hard short circuit and the kind of soft short circuit that is caused by a circuit with some impedance to Ground, and then only allow to force start in the latter case, and that's one of the items being actively worked on right now.
 
Had the Satiator since Monday and am loving it! Sooo glad my original charger bit the dust. :wink:

Just set up my first custom profile a couple of days ago. To acknowledge Justin's unbelievable patience with my extensive back and forth questions through email, I thought I should give my slow-charge profile a more appropriate name...
Satiator.jpg

Ty
 
I just received my Satiator and used it for the first time last night on my 12s5p liIon diy prototype!
I'm extremely happy to be able to retire my iMax b6v2 for this really great charger. It's amazing to see the pack full and ready to go in just 44mins compared to the 5+ hours it has been taking. Also very nice to be able to charge the full 48v at 12s instead of breaking it down into two 6s packs like I have been doing!
 
It was alluded in the Grin email newsletter a week ago that a new firmware rev V 1.0 ? would be released in early July.
Wonder what is in it and when it will actually be released?

Also I think they should document the charge graph screen better in the manual, I just discovered it by accident.
Its only shown in the screen/mode flowchart diagram in the manual.
I wish it would scale better showing maybe 30-60 volts along the Y axis instead of 0 to 60 when you are charging to 58 so.
 
I hadn't used that screen yet, but looking at it, I think it would be best scaled such that it's lowest is the lowest the pack *should* ever be at, the minimum charge start voltage setting, I guess.
 
velias said:
It was alluded in the Grin email newsletter a week ago that a new firmware rev V 1.0 ? would be released in early July.
Wonder what is in it and when it will actually be released?

Hey Velias, I was hoping that we'd have released it early last week but we ran into a few hiccups in merging branches of code together and have needed some more time to iron that out here. It's looking like we are talking just days away at this stage.

Also I think they should document the charge graph screen better in the manual, I just discovered it by accident.

Ah, that's just the placeholder graph screen. I discussed it as well as the intended graph screen back on Page5 of this thread
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=914831#p914831

The proper charge graph display is one of the main features of the V1.0 firmware build, and it will autoscale the voltage exactly as you inferred (going from Vmax/2 to Vmax) so the voltage curve is better accentuated, the charge current is shown as a solid line as opposed to the voltage which is a bar area, and there will be labels to call out the actual charge voltages. Here's an example of a mostly charged battery that was plugged in, so it's predominantly just in CV state with the current dropping.


The other key features in the 1.0 release are full logging of all the charge statistics. So in addition to scrolling to a charge graph while charging, there is also another page showing the charge history of of that profile. This photo is on a freshly flashed Satiator so it's all zero, but you can imagine on the left would be the lifetime number of charge cycles and kWhr + Ah that this profile has seen, and the right column averages these out per cycle so that you can see what the typical charge has looked like, in terms of how many hours it took and the total energy that went into the pack.
Profile Stats.jpg

The idea here is to have something similar to the Cycle Analyst for keeping a log history of your battery usage. It's not exactly 1:1, so if say you have 2 or 3 different profiles that you use with the same pack then you'd need to add up the totals from all those profiles to see what the particular battery has been exposed to, but that's straightforward enough.

Plus, we've added a new "About Charger" section to the advanced setup menu which shows the full lifetime statistics of the Satiator across all profiles.
About Charger.jpg

This will be a convenient place to check the charger hardware and firmware revisions and see the entire lifetime usage of the device. So how many total hours that the Satiator has been plugged in, how many hours it has spent charging, and how many total Ahrs and Kwhrs that it has put into battery packs. This will be useful both to us doing reliability / longevity analysis, and for any data crunching type who is interested in seeing their lifetime total battery energy usage and economics. And unlike the profile statistics which will get lost for instance if you delete the profile, the totals here are tied to the unit and can't be edited or lost.
Board Details.jpgSatiator Totals.jpg
Hopefully that answers some of the "what to expect in the next firmware update" question. There are also a whole pile of smaller tweaks that will be covered in detail with the release notes, a large part of which is thanks to user feedback here. Things like remembering the previous charge amp-hours after you disconnect a pack, having a "connected to PC" written on the screen when the device is in bootloader mode, battery temperature readouts on all chemistries if a thermistor is plugged in, the ability to start a charge even when the Satiator's output thinks that there is a short circuit fault, etc.

I'll be really excited to make this finally go live since it feels like it's been a loooong time coming, but there's no sense pushing it prematurely when there are still a few known bugs getting worked out.
 
It's a great value to have this charger in that it actually gets updated and even better after you buy one.
 
rhinejuice said:
Please excuse me if I have missed it in a previous post but will your charger do a 72+v or 20s-21s rc lipo set up ?

No...

Maybe eventually or add another 12V supply to reach desire voltage but as I understand the current Satiator can only provide up to about 60VDC.

I'd buy 2qty if they could hit 67.2VDC
 
Started new thread "Satiator Battery V to High"
 
rhinejuice said:
Please excuse me if I have missed it in a previous post but will your charger do a 72+v or 20s-21s rc lipo set up ?

A higher voltage version is in the works, reportedly this summer.

Adding a fixed supply is also supposed to be possible though it has not been reported on here.

I'm ready to order the higher voltage unit when it comes out, as many others are. I need 76V for 18S Lipo, and it would be nice to have 90V or so.
 
Justin, can you give an approximate release date for a high voltage satiator? I know you can't be exact but is it 3,6,9 months for expectant release? My 16s Li-ion wants to be fed via satiator.
 
Ykick said:
I'd buy 2qty if they could hit 67.2VDC

yeah. I need to hit atleast 16s lipo too...


Alan B said:
A higher voltage version is in the works, reportedly this summer.
I'm ready to order the higher voltage unit when it comes out, as many others are. I need 76V for 18S Lipo, and it would be nice to have 90V or so.

holy crap! really?
Where did they post about that? I would love to have one, but Im JUST over their max voltage.... also, would it still be 8a max?
 
My recollection is that the power (Watts) won't increase so Volts higher, Amps lower proportionately.
 
BVH said:
My recollection is that the power (Watts) won't increase so Volts higher, Amps lower proportionately.
Thats with the current one... I am hoping the HV model has thermal rollback or something... that way it could run more as long as you kept it cool enough.
 
MrDude_1 said:
holy crap! really?
Where did they post about that?
On this very thread, here
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=907070#p907070
and here
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=910108#p910108
and here
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1021781#p1021781
and here
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=993623#p993623

It would be nice if there was a "quick download thread history to my brain" function since things tend to get buried pretty quickly in old posts and then lost to new people following a topic, but that's not yet on the ES site enhancements list due to a lack of standardized brain connection hardware.

I would love to have one, but Im JUST over their max voltage.... also, would it still be 8a max?

It will be limited to 5A max, with a full scale output of 103V, and again clamped to 360 watts. We were supposed to have had our pilot production run finished now to submit them for UL / CSA test certification but there was an incident that pushed things back by another 3 weeks. GIVEN the crazy amount of interest for this variant though, we're considering bumping the pilot batch volume to at least 100 pieces of so and offering them before certification is approved (another 2-3 month process), with the relevant cert. icons on the label covered up and appropriate disclaimers.

I think it's fair to say that not many people here actually care about whether a product is actually certified by UL or not.
 
Certified by you is good enough for me, LOL....
 
Back
Top