The new Qute Q100H motor

[Sunder]

Did some more experiments, it's "stalling out" at lower RPM on full throttle acceleration. Makes nasty high-pitch noise while at it. If I pedal-assist or ease off the throttle to go through the "danger zone" speed, it does just fine.

Pretty sure it's not mechanical. I tried simulating this situation with the rear wheel off the ground and using rear brake. Even if I completely release the brake while it's in the "stall" situation it'll not move, just keeps on making the nasty noise.

All points to incorrect Hall sensors but why would it then work fine otherwise?

Does it seem to have lost a little bit of power going up hills? I had a Q100h do that when I lost just one out of the three halls from a bad connection. It still worked, but it was bugging the hell out of me. I thought it was a clutch problem at first, but when I changed motor without changing the cable, it did the same thing. So I knew it was electrical.

 

[dakh]

Yea looks like something's up with Hall sensors. I hooked the motor up to a known good setup and it does the same thing. Does something else with sensors disconnected completely, just doesn't wanna start but works better at high load/full throttle/low RPM condition. Will have to take it apart and check everything.

 

[quuxman]

After further riding with the S12S controller, I've experienced frequent but seemingly random power loss. The display stays on, but motor cuts out until throttle is released and reapplied. Also, on medium to large climbs (~800 feet) the controller gets way too hot. I'm thinking to replace the controller with a 6 fet 4110 Infineon from em3ev.com, but I'd really like a small minimal LCD that shows speed, distance traveled, and battery voltage like the SLCD displays from Bmsbattery. Unfortunately it seems the only display compatible with the Infineon is the Cycle Analyst, which is comparably rather pricey, and also pretty big and clunky compared to the SLCD displays.

My current inclination is to get the Infineon controller with this volt meter:

http://www.amazon.com/LIROYAL-Digital-Display-Voltmeter-Detector/dp/B00IKCYJEI

And a typical cycle computer with wheel sensor for speed and odometer, and use a 3 way toggle switch for power levels. Perhaps I should make a new thread for this?

 

[spinningmagnets]

If you are feeling adventurous, maybe buy one of those cheap barbecue temp sensors with a remote probe, then attach the probe to the hot side of the S12S controller. It would be helpful to everyone to find out at which temperature the controller cuts out. Just a thought...

 

[quuxman]

If you are feeling adventurous, maybe buy one of those cheap barbecue temp sensors with a remote probe, then attach the probe to the hot side of the S12S controller. It would be helpful to everyone to find out at which temperature the controller cuts out. Just a thought...

It's not cutting out due to overheating, because it happens sometimes immediately upon starting to ride. Could be as simple as a loose throttle connection.

I'll tape a thermometer to the controller on my next ride anyway, just so I can be more specific than "way too hot". All I know so far is that it gets too hot to comfortably touch for a second.

 

[motomech]

Using Lipo(46V) as a power source, I had problems with every controller that featured a LCD display and had to give up on those.
I also have used every 6-FET Infineon, although not necessarily with the Cute.
The best all-around combo was a Lyen 22A with the MXUS, a motor 10% larger than the Q100.
When I tried the Lyen Mini-Monster with a Cute, I found it was somewhat too hot.
By "hot", I mean too powerful. The throttle starts to become rough feeling(jumpy?) and the motor starts to become noisey.
It would go like heck though.
I sold the MXUS to a friend and it's mated to the Grin 20A Infineon and it's a very nice combo, and although I haven't tried a Cute with that controller, I think it would be servicable, but still on the hot side of what I like to give the Q100's.
The Infineons are "hot rod" controllers and I think the 25 Amper would need the CA to dial it back.
I started out with an older 2.2V CA years ago, and while it was a great leaning tool, I deleted it a couple of years ago as I just didn't need it.
My controller has a solid LVC for my Lipo and all I really need is a mini Volt meter(I use a red 2-wire). Part of this is I ride the same routes and the other thing is, I carry enough Lipo that I don't have range anxiety.
These days I use the simple and reliable 9-FET from Elifebikes They are available in 17A(which I use) and 19A versions on Ebay for $40 shipped. That includes the PAS stuff and a 810 LED meter. I like the 810, it's small, has a nice cruise and 3-speed limiter function. I still need to hook up the PAS, so I can't comment on how that works.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/36V-48V-350W-9-Mosfets-E-Bike-Motor-Controller-with-LED-meter-/221849795712?var=&hash=item33a7473c80

 

[quuxman]

The Infineons are "hot rod" controllers and I think the 25 Amper would need the CA to dial it back.

I was planning on limiting the Infineon to about 18 amps at 36 volts. It says it has "3 programmable speed settings", and so I figured I could do that with the serial interface cable they optionally sell with it. I didn't want to buy another 17 amp controller, because that's what I already have and it's overheating. I couldn't find any small 2 wire volt meters on Amazon, so I went with the 3 wire one I linked to above.

 

[tumich]

Is it possible to use that controller without 810 LED meter?

 

[motomech]

The Infineons are "hot rod" controllers and I think the 25 Amper would need the CA to dial it back.

I was planning on limiting the Infineon to about 18 amps at 36 volts. It says it has "3 programmable speed settings", and so I figured I could do that with the serial interface cable they optionally sell with it. I didn't want to buy another 17 amp controller, because that's what I already have and it's overheating. I couldn't find any small 2 wire volt meters on Amazon, so I went with the 3 wire one I linked to above.

The Infineon controllers are square wave units and the speed limiting feature, is just that, speed limiting, not current.
Nobody has "over-heated" the ELB 9-FET controller on a Cute.
The problem you are having is not a simple matter of how many Amps.

 

[motomech]

Is it possible to use that controller without 810 LED meter?

Yes, they sell one for no meters.
But you would have to add an external on/off switch and switches for cruise and speed-limiting, should you care to have those features.

 

[fellow]

The Infineon controllers are square wave units and the speed limiting feature, is just that, speed limiting, not current.

Is it possible to use that controller without 810 LED meter

Tumich: S06S controller has a speed limit of about 34 km/h in 26" wheel when used without the LCD display (connect wires 1-2, and 3-5. Measured at 75V). Its curent (when used with throttle only) is reduced too, but it can be compensated with shunt mod. S06S is not ideal for use without the LCD diplay. It does occasionally accelerates past this on downhill, but oscillates on flat.

I'm experiencing typical clutch noise on Q100H 201rpm when used past 500W cont, 1000W peak. Is there any way of improvning the clutch, or my only option is screw it inoperable? (no pun intended)? Is there a known power limit of the nylon gears inside?

 

[Sunder]

I'm experiencing typical clutch noise on Q100H 201rpm when used past 500W cont, 1000W peak. Is there any way of improvning the clutch, or my only option is screw it inoperable? (no pun intended)? Is there a known power limit of the nylon gears inside?

What's this clutch noise you are encountering. The Q100H has been a noisier motor for me than the standard Q100, but without any thought, I've just put it down to the higher reduction ratio. I get a buzz during acceleration and a hum at high speed cruise. I'm running a 1000w controller on 13s LiPo.

 

[fellow]

Sunder: It's a very loud clutch noise when I'm trying to accelerate att full throttle from the standstill. It takes maybe half a second, and the ebike is not moving during this event. People are turning heads far away, its THAT loud. Shortly after, everything is back to normal. If I double the phase current, the ebike is not moving for one second instead of half a second. When I reduce the current under 1000W peak (how fun is that?), this never occurs.

I was thinking of doing something like this, using screws instead of welding (BMC clutch in the video):
[youtube]t_O4pk4qONU[/youtube]

 

[d8veh]

I just repaired a clutch in a Q100H. It was totally seized engaged. The reason was that it had had water in it, so you don't need to weld it, just a few drops of water in the right place should do it.

 

[Sunder]

Sunder: It's a very loud clutch noise when I'm trying to accelerate att full throttle from the standstill. It takes maybe half a second, and the ebike is not moving during this event.

Thanks mate. I know the sound. Have had it a few times doing fairly gentle starts up very steep hills. I learn to pedal first now to avoid it.

 

[fellow]

I just repaired a clutch in a Q100H. It was totally seized engaged. The reason was that it had had water in it, so you don't need to weld it, just a few drops of water in the right place should do it.

I've removed of the wheel, the freewheel, and the three screws but could not remove the side cover. Will try to make a tool for this, somehow I have a feeling that this is not my last time doing this. I have ATF oil inside, water cooling is probably more suitable.

Someone described changing the clutch springs to a stronger ones? What do you think, is it plausable*?

*The definition of plausable is here: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread924838/pg1

 

[Sunder]

I just repaired a clutch in a Q100H. It was totally seized engaged. The reason was that it had had water in it, so you don't need to weld it, just a few drops of water in the right place should do it.

I've removed of the wheel, the freewheel, and the three screws but could not remove the side cover. Will try to make a tool for this, somehow I have a feeling that this is not my last time doing this. I have ATF oil inside, water cooling is probably more suitable.

Someone described changing the clutch springs to a stronger ones? What do you think, is it plausable*?

*The definition of plausable is here: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread924838/pg1

That cover can be a b*****. The way I did it was lock a unwanted fixed speed gear onto it using another nut, then used a chain whip to rotate the whole thing off.

Once it's been off once though, I could just use a rubber glove to get the necessary grip off - Even though I'd been pedaling it.

By the way:

Plausible: (of an argument or statement) seeming reasonable or probable.
Feasible: possible and practical to do easily or conveniently.

 

[d8veh]

Stiffer springs won't do any harm, but I'm not sure what the difference would be. The force is from the spring is only enough to move the roller into its wedging position, not to hold it in. I had to replace mine because they were rusted away. I found a length of the correct diameter (3.6mm) spring on Ebay, which I cut to three pieces the correct length. It was 0.4 mm carbon steel wire, which was maybe a bit less stiff than what was there before, but difficult to tell because of the rust.

 

[Ykick]

My experience regarding clutch springs - stock Q motors I’ve owned use a very thin wire. Sorta like ballpoint pen spring.

Over time, the roller spins enough that the thin wire grinds down enough to wedge in between the roller and ramp. Causing the roller to stick and either not engage or not release.

I found some eBay springs which loosely fit the hole in the ramp but used much thicker gauge wire. I trimmed length to provide a little push of the roller but not too much force shoving it into the ramp.

This recipe appears to be working very well over the last year, 3-4k miles.

 

[Sunder]

I think you guys jinx me or something. I heard/felt a humming noise when my bike was going down a long, gradual hill on the way to work this morning.I thought maybe one of my bearings were going or something. Got to work, lifted up my bike, and spun both wheels. Front wheel kept spinning, back wheel didn't quite make it half a turn.

Dammit. Clutch is locked on.

Okay. Advice? Specification of spring I could use to replace it? Better still, link to a spring I could buy? Video tutorial on how to replace it?

I've never really looked too closely at how the clutch worked. Can anyone give a brief description before I take it apart?

Thanks.

Edit: Never mind. I just searched the forum and found a good description. I guess distracted at work, I don't think too fast.

 

[d8veh]

Give it a whack in the forward direction. If it's just stuck, that will free it. If that doesn't free it, something is wrong - probably corroded like mine.

 

[Sunder]

Give it a whack in the forward direction. If it's just stuck, that will free it. If that doesn't free it, something is wrong - probably corroded like mine.

Sorry to be asking pretty simple questions, but what do you mean a whack in the forward direction? On the casing? Suddenly jerk the wheel forward? Not quite sure if I understand you.

 

[d8veh]

Lift the wherl off the ground or turn the bike upside down. How good is your Kung Fu? Try your best roundhouse kick to the tyre, otherwise get a big mallet and whack the tyre tangentially in the forward direction.

 

[Sunder]

Just watched Jet Li's "Contract Killer" last night, so I'm channeling my inner Asian.

Didn't roundhouse kick the bike, but was late for work this morning, so went full throttle, damn the pot holes and by the time I got to work, problem was solved.I'm guessing it was just a minor stick.

Anything aside from stronger springs that might help?

 

[d8veh]

I had a Bafang BPM motor with a stuck clutch. The first time, it took several good whacks to free it. The second time, it only took one. After that, I could free it by bunny-hopping the front wheel. Eventually, it stopped sticking.