Tsdz2 firmware open source adapted to vlcd5, vlcd6 and xh18

[ttshaw1]

Quick question: I bought a used 48V TSDZ2 and I want to test it out before I go shell out for a several-hundred-dollar battery. What's the easiest way I could verify the motor windings are ok?

 

[kaziq]

Quick question: I bought a used 48V TSDZ2 and I want to test it out before I go shell out for a several-hundred-dollar battery. What's the easiest way I could verify the motor windings are ok?

I tested mine (new) by laying it on the bench, connecting a 48V power supply, attaching one crank arm (without screwing in), and turning with my hand. It should start assisting after half of a turn, or even less. It's not a proper test, as that would need attaching a load of some kind, but it give some kind of idea how the motor is working and you can perhaps detect some issues by the sound it will make.

 

[Elinx]

Quick question: ...

But no quick answer, because a tsdz2 is more than the bare motor with windings.
Windings you can measure by measuring resistance, but the magnets you can't if they are (partly) demagnetized.

Controller, torquesensor, spragclutch, gears and bearings are aswell important.
Everything is relative easy to replace, but have a price and need some time.

Easiest is indeed to use a powersupply with can give at least 42V. (maybe a 36V charger?)

 

[paul67]

I can't enable the external rear light on my TSDZ2 bike. I wonder if someone can help.
Software: TSDZ2-Smart-EBike-1-20.1C.2.
Hardware: TSDZ2 motor with VLCD5 display. No brake-sensors. Rear light requires 6V, and 57mA max.
Basic Settings (Java config): "Lights" ticked.
Assistance Settings (Java Config): Light mode on startup = "0".
I have a cable that comes out from the motor, and connects to both a wheel-magnet sensor and the lights. In the picture, my rear lights connect to one of the red & black pairs of wires, and my motor controller connects to the yellow connector.

I've never seen the rear light come on. The VLCD5 display and light-icon come on, but the external rear lights do not.
I measure less than 0.5V at the red and black wires. Before I suspect the motor controller PCB, is there anything else I should check? I'm beginning to wonder if that cable really is used for lights...
Thanks in advance, Paul

 

[kaziq]

I have similar cable in my set, and my lights work fine. Just answering "if that cable really is used for lights" - yes, it is. But I have no idea what could be wrong in your setup.

 

[paul67]

Thanks for the confirmation Kazik.

 

[IrlDaveBlue]

Hi,
Does anyone have available an Excel Spreadsheet of all the Calibration settings for the OpenSource from Mbrusa ?

I have attached an image of one of the screens, I am hoping that someone has already created an Excel spreadsheet of.

I have searched this thread for it, but can't find a reference.

I want to keep a record of the Calibration setting values that I use initially.

And whenever I make a change to a setting, I want to store a record in a new version of the Excel spreadsheet.

I know that I can manually type in the text etc to create an Excel spreadsheet, but am wondering whether any of you have already done this… and would be prepared to share it here?

Thanks in advance,
Dave

 

[IrlDaveBlue]

I tried to download SDCC but have BitDefender anti virus running.

I am downloading from https://deac-fra.dl.sourceforge.net/project/sdcc/sdcc-win64/4.2.0/sdcc-4.2.0-x64-setup.exe

BitDefender prevents this from downloading.

Is this a legit source for SDCC and if so, I assume that I should disable BitDefender and run the download again?

Dave

 

[Elinx]

...
Does anyone have available an Excel Spreadsheet of all the Calibration settings for the OpenSource from Mbrusa ?....

I don't understand what you mean with "all calibration settings"
Every time if you push compile&flash there will be made an ini file with your settings. I understand this isn't what you mean.
All setting values are explained in the configuration manual.

I tried to download...

Is this a legit source for SDCC ....

imho, following the the sdcc developer page, you can download directly from sourceforge.net instead of deac.fra.dll.xxxx.
https://sourceforge.net/projects/sdcc/files/sdcc-win64/4.2.0/sdcc-4.2.0-x64-setup.exe/download
So try that first.

 

[IrlDaveBlue]

Hi Elinx,

>>

I don't understand what you mean with "all calibration settings"

I meant all the values that are in the screen above that I attached… TZDZ2 Assistance Settings… and the values on the screen for TAB Basic settings, and the values for Advanced settings.

I want to take my time reading through the Configuration Manual, and then enter all the values into the Excel spreadsheet that I intend to use for the first time on my 48Volt 750 watt motor.

And then have this spreadsheet next to me, when I need to enter the required values before I flash them to the motor.

So the Excel spreadsheet will purely be used for my own documentation, and help me prepare for updating the values. And then after that to give me an easy to read record of the values that I used.


I tried that download link… but it seems to change to another URL. Have you tried it recently?

I tried the one you suggested
https://sourceforge.net/projects/sdcc/files/sdcc-win64/4.2.0/sdcc-4.2.0-x64-setup.exe/download

and this changes to
https://altushost-swe.dl.sourceforge.net/project/sdcc/sdcc-win64/4.2.0/sdcc-4.2.0-x64-setup.exe

BitDefender displays the warning
Dangerous page blocked for your protection

So then I click ‘I understand the risks, take me there anyhow’,
And BitDefender then won’t allow the download to proceed.

I guess it is probably ok to disable BitDefender, but my computer was hacked about 2 months ago after running an exe that I should have known better not to. And I am wary about running an exe from a URL that I am not familiar with.

 

[paul67]

The sourceforge link doesn't change for me. Perhaps you still have some malware on your machine that is redirecting your browser?

 

[Elinx]

....
I meant all the values that are in the screen above that I attached… TZDZ2 Assistance Settings… and the values on the screen for TAB Basic settings, and the values for Advanced settings..... enter all the values into the Excel spreadsheet ....
..
I tried that download link… but it seems to change to another URL. Have you tried it recently?...

As said, these settings are saved inside an ini file (inside experimental folder), so it is even possible to import these settings into that excel sheet from there.

Before I linked to Sourceforce, I had opened the links and download v4.2.0 too.
The change of an url is very strange behaviour and should alarm you that something isn't working as expected.
I have tried to Google these names,
deac-fra.dl.
altushost-swe.dl.
Without satisfactory results, so I don't understand how these url's could be changed.
Are all links renamed or only the downloadlink with the .exe file
If nothing is wrong, another problem could be that bitdefender don't let you download "xxx.exe" files.

 

[kiwinigma]

Hi All, I've just joined ES after increasingly frequent lurking. I'm not sure if posting in a thread like this is the best way to ask or whether to start a thread, so please (gently) correct me as necessary.

I'm trying to flash a TSDZ2 with 850c display bought from recycle-ebike but am having trouble flashing the display. I've followed the instructions as per video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0efCpe-Yj50 and using the pinout of the 6-pin cable as per https://opensourceebike.github.io/schematic/schematic_display_I2C.png and using a relatively generic USB-Serial converter. I've only connected 4 pins, RX and TX to the USB-Serial board and Vbatt and Ground straight to the battery.

If I just hold down the power button the screen turns on as normal. If I try the flashing procedure, everything goes as expected until it's time to short-press the power button. When I click "update firmware" in the previous step, the message "waiting" starts coming up, and the RX and TX counters in APT Burn Tools start going up (both in sync) and the RX and TX LEDs on the USB board are lighting up. When I press the power button, the RX counter stops incrementing (and the RX led stops lighting) while the TX continues, but the message "waiting" still keeps coming up, it never goes into counting the percentage, never says "Updating". After about 10 seconds the RX counter starts incrementing again and the LED starts lighting up again.

Does anyone have some guidance on what might be wrong/help?
Many thanks!

 

[paul67]

Hi kiwinigma. I haven't actually done this procedure but I'd expect two grounds (0V connections): One from the battery to the display, and another from the display to the USB/UART adaptor. I think this is hinted at from the 2 minute point in the eco-cycles video... "then you'd have to take one of them wires [from USB/UART adaptor] and run them to your battery..." This is so the USB/UART adaptor Tx and Rx signals are referenced correctly.

 

[kiwinigma]

Hi kiwinigma. I haven't actually done this procedure but I'd expect two grounds (0V connections): One from the battery to the display, and another from the display to the USB/UART adaptor. I think this is hinted at from the 2 minute point in the eco-cycles video... "then you'd have to take one of them wires [from USB/UART adaptor] and run them to your battery..." This is so the USB/UART adaptor Tx and Rx signals are referenced correctly.

Thanks paul67. I've just tried tying the 3 grounds (display, battery, UART) together and now the behaviour is different. Now when I click "Updatefirmware" only the "Tx" counter is counting up/incrementing. And when I click the power button, the "Rx" counter increments by one. Still "waiting" and not updating and not counting the %.

 

[paul67]

Glad you've got a little progress. I'm not sure from here then. I'm wondering if long cables ) excess cable inductance is affecting signal integrity (more the Rx). You could try twisting the ground wire around the tx and rx wires. And/or reducing the lengths of those 3 wires as much as possible. Hope it helps...

 

[Ianane]

....
Newbie here, ....
Is there a step by step guide anywhere for people who want to use the OSF adapted for VLCD5? .....

You can start reading the wiki :wink:
It start with a 7 steps guide


If you download the firmware, you will find some manuals inside.
The configuration manual has also a short guide

Ok so I read it all, and I've tried to do it. And I just can't. For someone who rarely uses a computer and hasn't for many years. I just don't get certain aspects of it. Download this, download that, make sure you save it here, hey presto there you go....... That might be all well and good to someone clued up, but I'm not, and far from it. I need more help. Shown how. Is nobody willing to do a video detailing each step so more people can access and use this OSF. Because otherwise, I feel people who aren't as computer savvy as others are being pushed out of the OSF benefits. For many people out there, who need a more in-depth guide, the current guides mean nothing. I just wish there was more genuine help on this topic and not just a "go read this", that doesn't help at all. If it did nobody would be asking.

G'day Clueless, you can call me Clueless2/too, I've got to a stalling point in flashing and will visit a 'clued up' IT friend and see if he can find where I am going wrong or what I am missing. Once I understand where I am going wrong I may be able to help you. If I get it sorted, I'll put something together of my experience in the hope it will help other 'over-60-digital-immigrants'
I've posted my stalling point on the Endless sphere facebook page because that is the only way I could figure out how to post a picture. The picture is of my computer's 'C/' drive showing the programs installed.
I think I have clicked the wrong thing for opening Java and another program opens it and effectively disables it for the purpose of flashing... but ... I am Clueless2/too.
Sometimes a learner can be the best teacher for a learner, so if you're still reading this thread, reach out and we can muddle through it together... as long as you have a VLCD5 display... which is what I am using. No point of expecting much of me until I've visited my friend though.

 

[Ianane]

I read some rumours of Enerprof that Tongsheng is developing a Canbus controller (like Bafang did). Imho in that case every custom tuning will end.
[/quote]

If they do this without fixing the heat and bearing issues of the motor build they'll be shooting themselves in the foot methinks.

 

[Ianane]

...
Yes that's what I sometimes do too when lending bikes to others but that limits the MAX current draw to 250w from the battery
effectively disabling any short term boost , I measured the watts when the battery was limited to 250w and it only went upto about 290w max when pushing hard on the pedals ....

Is it just me? I ask because I don't see the problem.
If you have 36V batterie with 250W motor, you will never exeed the legal power. You only can measure used power.
Higher burstpower or maximum power isn't mentioned by law, only maximum continues power (250W).
Continues power can't be measured that easy, because for that you need conditioned environment for measuring outside and inside temperature and measure the highest power that gives minimum temperature increase of the motor within a certain time.

The speedlimit 25km/h is a lot more important, easier to observe and easier to measure.
So if you want to be street legal under all conditions, you can setup power and speedlimit exactly the same for streetmode and offroadmode.

I was curious about the range and effectiveness of different motors after my first 48v 500w (22 peak amp controller) build. I went way over street legal specs because 20 years ago I bought a legal Aprilia Enjoy and it was not cut out for my commute... 14kms up 500ms. After reading these threads I got excited about the TSDZ2 so I bought the 48v 500w version.
I've ridden a Merida eOneSixty with the shimano steps e8000
several Focus bikes with the bosch CX performance line
A cheap 'factory street legal' 36v rear hub motor
and a Giant E-talon with the 'core' motor... the smallest out of the Yamaha/giant stable.
all of these motors will get me home within 2 minutes of each other... depending on the day and on the same route.
One route home is a series of ramps that alternate between 6% then 10% then 6% then 13% then 6% then 17% then 10% then 21% over about 2700m... Woodland Way in South Australia... several Strava segments if you want an accurate breakdown... but this will give you the idea it is no mear lump in the road.
Of all the motors, the Shimano Steps gave me the confidence to tackle this road several times but I didn't have Garmin and I wasn't using Strava when I was borrowing this bike... the tours are recorded on Komoot. The Yamaha/Giant core motor did it confidently and I my recorded best time is with Bosch CX Performance Line. My first attempt up this monster as an e-bike novice I fudged the gears, burst my lungs and got off and walked up the last ramp... so doesn't count... wasn't recorded back then anyway.
I had/have no faith in either of my 'street illegal' early kit builds... especially the TSDZ2 48v 500w as is. I'm currently in the process of flashing and adding heat pads etc so once that's all done I'll compare against a years worth of time on this route and my other comparisons.
Which is the long winded way of saying '250w continuous power' is a running joke that the manufacturers use to stop people building kit bikes that perform. You will never see in an open forum/advertising what amps the controllers for these motors have at their bidding... just torque. They can talk mega torque and appear legal by the legislation.
I have recently built a rear hub 48v with 30 amp controller so I'll try that for reference.

 

[Ianane]

Ok, in reference to the Letter of the Law vs the Spirit of the Law discussion between Elinx and jgs1-
This is a pet hobbyhorse of mine-
I've just completed the Coachhouse Drive and Woodland Way segment, 2.8kms @ avg 10% with >20% final ramp on my latest Hub build... 48v with 30peak Amps controller.
My times that I have recorded for this segment with Garmin Heart Rate and Strava are
Legal - Bosch Performance Line CX - 9:04 mins and peak heart rate of 154 and avg 147. Max watts 850 avg 566
Illegal? - 500w 48v hub (Bafang-ish) - 9:07 mins and peak heart rate of 162 and avg 139. Max watts 1,087 avg 681
Legal - Giant/Yamaha Core - 10:23 mins and peak heart rate of 161 and avg 150. Max watts 741 avg 554
I suspect the calc for Watts is so different due to my 2kg weight increase set into Strava.
I know none of this has anything to do with the TSDZ2, apart from I have one and I have never felt confident to tackle this climb with it. I also know that these are single times with potential varying weather conditions but they are commensurate with my experience on other , regular routes. So if Certified legal Production e-bikes can match and better an illegal 48v 30peak amp configuration hub drive, they are clearly not limited to 7amps 36v to make 250w. I'm guessing they have access to 25peak amps capable of 900watts combined with finely tuned mid-drive motors and controllers.
Of course, these production bikes are 'certified' street legal where as our builds are not so it is all pretty academic but from my experience I think it would be hard to tune a TSDZ2 to out-perform a Shimano Steps e-8000 or a Bosch performance Line CX provided you kept the speed limited to your regional maximum (+10% which is the law in Australia so 27.5kph absolute maximum)

 

[Elinx]

.... Tongsheng is developing a Canbus controller....

If they do this without fixing the heat and bearing issues of the motor build they'll be shooting themselves in the foot methinks.

They did made already a non flashable controller specific for Enerprof 's EU market.
So it could be that this Canbus controller also is a specific development for Enerprof.

I don't know what the 2022 revision of EN15194 will bring.
But I assume that the anti tampering rules will be expanded and that this is one of the reasons why ebikemotor brands are introducing Canbus if they hadn't before.

Ok, in reference to the Letter of the Law vs the Spirit of the Law discussion ....
This is a pet hobbyhorse of mine-.......
......... So if Certified legal Production e-bikes can match and better an illegal 48v 30peak amp configuration hub drive, they are clearly not limited to 7amps 36v to make 250w. I'm guessing they have access to 25peak amps capable of 900watts combined with finely tuned mid-drive motors and controllers.....

BS EN 15194:2017 describes Maximum continuous rated Power is measured (under specific conditions) if the temperature vary under 2 Kelvin (2°C) per hour (Thermal equilibrium).
Maximum Power and Peak Power are not mentioned, so for a short time (an hour?) you can accept a rising temperature with higher Power.
Imho this is why certified ebikes can deliver a lot more than 250W and that is why the speedlimit is from more importancy.
imho the mention of 250W is a sort of size/dimension/weight a motor may have. A 1500W motor will have a bigger size and weight too.

 

[dzid_]

.... Tongsheng is developing a Canbus controller....

If they do this without fixing the heat and bearing issues of the motor build they'll be shooting themselves in the foot methinks.

They did made already a non flashable controller specific for Enerprof 's EU market.
So it could be that this Canbus controller also is a specific development for Enerprof.

I don't know what the 2022 revision of EN15194 will bring.
But I assume that the anti tampering rules will be expanded and that this is one of the reasons why ebikemotor brands are introducing Canbus if they hadn't before.

What has CANbus had to do with anti-tampering? If anything, at least the communication can be hackable. I can imagine with fast communication the high-level control portion would be offloaded to a more powerful display controller in which case people could intercept and command torque and whatnot to the motor itself. ...Buuuut I am totally speculating - I am just wondering what the issue is if there was the CANbus introduced.

 

[Elinx]

What has CANbus had to do with anti-tampering? .... ...Buuuut I am totally speculating - I am just wondering what the issue is if there was the CANbus introduced.

Ofcourse Canbus will hackable too, but I think it wil be less easy than with Uart. Also imho encryption could be introduced.
The easy way with a Bafang configurationtool or Tongsheng OSF will be gone. It will be as cat and mouse.
I'm speculating too, but imho the batterie (BMS) will be part of the motorsystem, so for example not easy to use 48V instead of 36V.
Some of the them were already mentioned in 2017 revision, but not always present in all systems. imho this will be tightened with 2022 revision.
It is also possible that sellers of ebike systems become jointly and severally liable in the event of accidents involving injuries.
In that case they will welcome these rules if the ebike has clearly been hacked.
imho with far-reaching anti-tampering rules it will be almost impossible to assemble and modify your own ebike without consequences in case of accidents.

Anti tampering as it is now (EN 15194:2017)
4.2.17 Anti-tampering measure
4.2.17.1 General
Anti-tampering measures apply to tampering or modifications that general consumers carry out concerning the control unit, drive unit or other parts of power assisting system by using commercially available tools, equipment or parts.
4.2.17.2 Prevention of tampering of the motor
The following anti-tampering requirements shall be taken into account:
a) Anti-tampering relevant parameters indicated below shall only be accessible to the manufacturer or authorized persons and changes of software configuration parameters require programming tools that are not commercially available or security protected:
- 1) maximum speed with motor assistance (all systems),
- 2) parameters affecting the maximum vehicle speed limited by design,
- 3) maximum gear ratio (system with middle motors),
- 4) maximum motor power (all systems),
- 5) maximum speed of starting up assistance;
b) Assumable manipulations on the approval relevant configuration shall be prevented or compensated by effective counter measures, i.e. plausibility logics to detect manipulations on sensors;
c) Closed set of components (i.e. operation only with released battery);
d) Protection against opening of relevant components without traces (sealing).

 

[Ianane]

[/quote] BS EN 15194:2017 describes Maximum continuous rated Power is measured (under specific conditions) if the temperature vary under 2 Kelvin (2°C) per hour (Thermal equilibrium).
Maximum Power and Peak Power are not mentioned, so for a short time (an hour?) you can accept a rising temperature with higher Power.
Imho this is why certified ebikes can deliver a lot more than 250W and that is why the speedlimit is from more importancy.
imho the mention of 250W is a sort of size/dimension/weight a motor may have. A 1500W motor will have a bigger size and weight too.
[/quote]

Thunderous agreement.
Another point of the arbitary nature of the law is that my quickest commutes are going to work... down 500m and averaging 32kph... doing 60 in stretchesw of my prefered routes and no electric assist required... and if I go down Woodland way I can go way over 80kph.. but I'm way to scared to... I got up to 80 once when a couple of kangaroos jumped in front of me... I nearly shit myself. did the rest of the decline with shaking knees and fists full of brakes.
Apart from this rapid descent commute nearly all other trips average around 22kph even with me speed limits set above 25kph.
Anyway, speaking to the converted here, so I'll put a plug in my rants

 

[Elinx]

... if I go down Woodland way I can go way over 80kph.. but I'm way to scared to... I got up to 80 once when a couple of kangaroos jumped in front of me.......

Without motor assist there is no speedlimit.
So if the assist is stopped at 25km/h you may go 80km/h downwards :wink:

But.... does EN 15194:2017 also apply in Australia, or do other rules apply there?

NB
I see the 250W 25kph without throttle is based on the EU rules, but I see there are also a 200W with throttle rules.