TSDZ2 open source firmware only for KT-LCD3 (v0.19.0 / v.0.20.0beta1)

[jeff.page.rides]

Hey Buba & mbrusa, We appreciate all the work that you two did in V20!
We are still using version 20 in all of our LCD3 and VLCD5 displays.
Version 20 is still the best software in many ways, in 1 big way it's much simpler than version 1.

Because we have to disassemble the LCD3 to flash it and the 860C is a very good display, we're using mostly 860C and some 850C displays.

Version 1 software is very good but it's very complicated and difficult to get the correct settings dialed in. I finally figured out what to turn up and what to turn down to get V1 to work for me and others with much weaker arms than a normal person has.

But there are 3 things with the current Version One that would really be a big improvement.

1 When you pull back to brake immediately after pedaling there's a high rate of resistance no matter where I put the setting and it doesn't go away until you move the cranks back forward a half-inch after I've stopped pedaling, then the resistance goes away. But in a panic situation and you don't remember you have to go forward again before you pull back again to get brakes to work, and it is scary, but luckily no crashes yet.
That's the way it was back in version 19 and when version 20 came out you fixed that. If you can look into this and then make the changes in V20 to V1 that would be awesome. Or at least tell us what changes you made in version 20 so that you can paddle and pull back for the brake all in one motion.

2 Also when taking off from a dead stop it would be nice to have a little more power and a lot less shake & shutter to get moving.

3 START UP BOOST, is switched disable is enable. It would be nice to have this fixed.

Thanks, Jeff

 

[Paou44]

Hello,
I am new to this forum. I have read hundreds of pages devoted to the Opensource firmware for the tsdz2 and am impressed by the quality and quantity of the interventions. But I am also a little lost in front of the mass of information collected.
I am thinking of going towards the tsdz2 48v 500w solution, the lcd3 and firmware version 0.20.
But I have a wheel with a nexus 8 and a coaster brake. And there, I have a doubt: does the 0.20 work well with a nexus and with the coaster brake version of the tsdz2 ?.
And I also have a question about the reliability of Tongsheng. I learned that Bafang was going to release the M200, whose characteristics seem to be close to the tsdz2. Maybe it is better to wait?
Thanks in advance for your answers and forgive me the language, English is not my mother tongue !.

 

[Elinx]

........ I learned that Bafang was going to release the M200, whose characteristics seem to be close to the tsdz2. Maybe it is better to wait?.....

Tsdz2 and Bafang BBSxx are bottom bracket mount motors, so these motors do fit on ordinairy bikes.
M200 need a special frame like other Mx00 Bafang types. They all don't fit on ordinairy bikes.

 

[James Broadhurst]

I am thinking of going towards the tsdz2 48v 500w solution, the lcd3 and firmware version 0.20.
But I have a wheel with a nexus 8 and a coaster brake. And there, I have a doubt: does the 0.20 work well with a nexus and with the coaster brake version of the tsdz2 ?.
And I also have a question about the reliability of Tongsheng. I learned that Bafang was going to release the M200, whose characteristics seem to be close to the tsdz2. Maybe it is better to wait?
Thanks in advance for your answers and forgive me the language, English is not my mother tongue !.

Hi, your English is better than my French/German/Spanish etc!!
As far as I know PSW either through AliExpress or directly are the only one to stock a coaster brake motor and only 36v 350w. I fitted one with Nexus8 and coaster brake (Cube frame).

The Nexus was completely ok. There is no problem there except you need to exactly position the gear change cable (there are lots of help around to do that). However my wrists are a bit arthritic with the RevoTwist so it pays dividends to oil the cable well. I mention this because you may have to re-route the gear change cable when you fit the motor. There isn’t a lot of pull when you shift down so any friction in the cable is unhelpful.

The coaster brake works well with v0.19; in fact I don’t think there is anything specialLy written for a coaster brake. There possibly is though with v0.20 which implies that it generates torque when the resistance of the coaster brake is felt. So something out of the ordinary has been written for a coaster brake in v0.20

You can not run a throttle or any other unassisted power. If you do, as the pedals are locked they rotate as fast as is necessary to achieve whatever speed you have set and if you are in first gear, the pedals will rotate very fast. Very painful.

Not being familiar with such an engine I found myself inevitably with the pedals in the wrong position to restart in traffic. With v0.19 I used a lot of boost to get it going and, I suspect, that is the reason why it consumed more power than usual.

The guy whose bike it was had a partial loss of use in one leg and despite me fitting his V brakes with pads that would almost fling him over the handlebars he wouldn’t remove the coaster brake. I hate them!

 

[jeff.page.rides]

Hello,
I am new to this forum. I have read hundreds of pages devoted to the Opensource firmware for the tsdz2 and am impressed by the quality and quantity of the interventions. But I am also a little lost in front of the mass of information collected.
I am thinking of going towards the tsdz2 48v 500w solution, the lcd3 and firmware version 0.20.
But I have a wheel with a nexus 8 and a coaster brake. And there, I have a doubt: does the 0.20 work well with a nexus and with the coaster brake version of the tsdz2 ?.
And I also have a question about the reliability of Tongsheng. I learned that Bafang was going to release the M200, whose characteristics seem to be close to the tsdz2. Maybe it is better to wait?
Thanks in advance for your answers and forgive me the language, English is not my mother tongue !.

The latest version 20 that mbrusa worked on this spring is the very best software for a coaster brake and for Nexus 8

 

[bwb]

Hi, I've been using the 0.20 from the first alfa up to beta1 without any issue, even the last ride
New ride => no assist at all.
Setup = 36/36 8pin version: throttle & brake sensors
I've checked following:
* all my settting are still ok (unchanged)
* I can read that battery voltage is still OK
* tried both street mode & off road mode: no assist
* tried throttle in off road: no assist (11-0: no throttle = 44 full throttle = 107)
* 11-1 Torque sensor ADC: rest = 224; Left =306 with weight on; Right = 300 with weight on
* changed from Power mode to Cadence mode => no assistance
* walk assist: symbol comes on, but no assist
* lights, symbol on display ok, but lights doesn't go on/off
* magneet distance from sensor: OK, I can see my riding speed
* cadense: ok, I see it when riding
* brake sensors: they work (symbol on display comes up). I tried once sensors disconnected, power off/on => no assistance

Does anybody has another idea what I can try/test/do need to replace?

 

[jeff.page.rides]

This is a copy of a reply to an email I received asking about the displays and firmware available for the TSDZ2.
I thought I would share my opinion on the different versions of firmware and the different displays

Hi Lee,

There are four different displays with three different firmware programs available for the TSDZ2. The 860C display only works with V1 but is by far the best display. The 850C display works with V1 and V19 but you can’t read it in the sun. The LCD3 display works with V19 and V20 and is a good display that works in the sun, but has to be disassembled to flash. The VLCD5 is a very limited display that works with the stock firmware and V20. But to change settings or view different information with V20 is very difficult. But the display doesn’t need to be flashed, only the motors need to be flashed and it’s easy and very quick to flash with different settings and works well with V20.

Version 1 is very refined but very complex and difficult to set up and to get working correctly. It does have the potential to be very good at some point down the road, but at this time lacks low RPM power and starting power. It also doesn't work well with a coaster brake, when you stop pedaling it stops but has a high rate of resistance when you pull back to brake, you have to move the pedals back forward 1 inch then pull back again and the resistance stops so you can brake.
It is the only version at this time that works on the 860C which is the best display.

Version 20 is very good, but it could use a few refinements. I believe this is the very best software for any setup.
I hope at some point someone will get version 20 to work with the 860C.

Version 19 is an older version that some people still like, but will never be improved, it does not work with coaster brake motors.

If you could take the good parts of version 1 and version 20 and get them to work on an 860C that would be the very best scenario.

Later,
Jeff

 

[jeff.page.rides]

This is a copy of a reply to an email I received asking about the displays and firmware available for the TSDZ2.
I thought I would share my opinion on the different versions of firmware and the different displays

Hi Lee,

There are four different displays with three different firmware programs available for the TSDZ2. The 860C display only works with V1 but is by far the best display. The 850C display works with V1 and V19 but you can’t read it in the sun. The LCD3 display works with V19 and V20 and is a good display that works in the sun, but has to be disassembled to flash. The VLCD5 is a very limited display that works with the stock firmware and V20. But to change settings or view different information with V20 is very difficult. But the display doesn’t need to be flashed, only the motors need to be flashed and it’s easy and very quick to flash with different settings and works well with V20.

Version 1 is very refined but very complex and difficult to set up and to get working correctly. It does have the potential to be very good at some point down the road, but at this time lacks low RPM power and starting power. It also doesn't work well with a coaster brake, when you stop pedaling it stops but has a high rate of resistance when you pull back to brake, you have to move the pedals back forward 1 inch then pull back again and the resistance stops so you can brake.
It is the only version at this time that works on the 860C which is the best display.

Version 20 is very good, but it could use a few refinements. I believe this is the very best software for any setup.
I hope at some point someone will get version 20 to work with the 860C.

Version 19 is an older version that some people still like, but will never be improved, it does not work with coaster brake motors.

If you could take the good parts of version 1 and version 20 and get them to work on an 860C that would be the very best scenario.

Later,
Jeff

Elinx wrote: ↑Sep 24 2020 4:26pm
jeff.page.rides wrote: ↑Sep 24 2020 3:38pm
.... displays and firmware available for the TSDZ2.

There are four different displays with three different firmware programs available for the TSDZ2. ......
..
If you could take the good parts of version 1 and version 20 and get them to work on an 860C that would be the very best scenario.

There is forgotten one version of the OSF based on v0.20b1, but with some additions that are also inside v1.0.
That is the OSF BTversion of mspider65, which works with Bluetooth and Android display.

I haven't been following the wireless forum, I didn't know that some code from V20 was being used. Thats good to hear, I thought it was all code from V1. Can this version be flashed and used on the 860C with out using any wireless devices? I have two hand cycles one has tried the VLC5 & the LCD3, both with V20, the other one has tried the LCD3 and 860C with V20 and V1. My wifes bike has a 850C and has tried V19 threw V1. We have used the displays and firmware versions in the last several months. It's a lot of work consistently changing systems but it's the only way to compare them accurately. Thanks to electrifybike.com for flashing them each time, and my wife and family for being my hands. As a weak handcyclest I notice things easier than others. And the TSDZ2 is 18" in front of my face, so can hear small changes and can touch the TSDZ2 anytime easily.

 

[James Broadhurst]

Version 19 is an older version that some people still like, but will never be improved, it does not work with coaster brake motors.

Which bit of v19.0 doesn’t work with a coaster brake? It certainly does do the job.

 

[jeff.page.rides]

Version 19 is an older version that some people still like, but will never be improved, it does not work with coaster brake motors.

Which bit of v19.0 doesn’t work with a coaster brake? It certainly does do the job.

When you stop forward motion to pull back and apply the coaster brake there is high resistance, you need to move forward 1" then back again and the resistance is gone, it's the same with version 1, Buba fixed it in version 20.

 

[jeff.page.rides]

TSDZ2 Fluid Cooling

I’ve been working with this all summer. With several different leaks, different pumps, different tubing, different fluid routing, different fluids, and other difficulties. I finally have a fluid made to fill-up brushless Motors and it is working the way I wanted to from the start with no leaks. I can ride at 700 - 850 Watts all day long and the motor never gets more than 10-20 degrees warmer than the outside air. With all the same steps, but with only fluid in the left side of the case, and no external addons will keep the motor at 30 to 50 degrees warmer than the outside air at 700-850 watts. So that means you can ride at high watts at 100 degrees outside and note worry about overheating. I use a led temp display attached to the bottom of the 860C. It has 2 probes and both temps show, one I leave out in the air on the front of the bike the other one is in the oil in the motor. This also allows you to use a throttle and still have a temperature sensor. It’s cooler, quieter and it’s smoother, but unfortunately like everything I had to learn it all the hard way.

When the riding season is over in about 60 days I will be doing a step by step how-to, with directions and pictures so those that want to tackle this should be able to do it without all the mistakes I had to go through. I’ve attached a couple of photos, so you can see what I’ve done. I also added a new 42 tooth chainring from https://www.eco-ebike.com/collections/drivetrain-pedals/products/42t-chain-ring-for-tsdz2-narrow-wide-10mm-offset-110-bcd-solid-e-bike That works great and costs less than the other brand.

I’m trying to decide if I want to go through the effort to offer a kit with all the parts and fluid needed for both types, internal only and external cooling. There was a lot of trial and error finding the right fittings, the right type of hose, the right fluid the right pump, and everything else. To get all the right parts I had to go through several different suppliers, no one-stop-shop here. It’s a lot of work, but If I decide to do this they will be offered through,
www.electrifybike.com and possibly www.eco-ebike.com

 

[James Broadhurst]

When you stop forward motion to pull back and apply the coaster brake there is high resistance, you need to move forward 1" then back again and the resistance is gone, it's the same with version 1, Buba fixed it in version 20.

In our application where we have use of hands and feet although with some limitations of the latter, and have fitted brake sensors, the resistance doesn’t occur or is overcome by shutting the motor down with the brake sensor.

 

[jeff.page.rides]

When you stop forward motion to pull back and apply the coaster brake there is high resistance, you need to move forward 1" then back again and the resistance is gone, it's the same with version 1, Buba fixed it in version 20.

In our application where we have use of hands and feet although with some limitations of the latter, and have fitted brake sensors, the resistance doesn’t occur or is overcome by shutting the motor down with the brake sensor.

The rotation stops easily, and then when you try to reverse rotation that's when the resistance starts. The brake sensors will stop the problem, but we can't use them.

 

[Waynemarlow]

Hi All.

My old faithful LCD3 with V20 has died. I have had a dead short between the batt pin and the next pin beside it on an 8 pin connector, it was a dead short and has blown the pin off of the female 8 connector Batt voltage pin and fried the male connector at that point. Now I had been riding in mud and water at the time although I had the connector filled with silicon grease it looked like it had dried up but the connector has been so hot I would not be able to tell if water ingress was at vault.

On reading the motor on the ST Link the motor reads OK and all the program memory and option byte read correctly. But the LCD3 only responds with a full display of every character when I press the power up button on the TSDZ2 handle bar keypad. Any clues as to whether the LCD3 has been fried as well and how to test.

The other question does anyone have the LCD3 download and program routine, its been so long since I've had mine running that I can't remember what pins we need to program it and nor the file for the ST Link. Buba used to have it on his github but for some reason I can't seem to find his gitub. It maybe worth a shot to see if it can be programmed.

Thanks.

 

[jeff.page.rides]

Hi All.

My old faithful LCD3 with V20 has died. I have had a dead short between the batt pin and the next pin beside it on an 8 pin connector, it was a dead short and has blown the pin off of the female 8 connector Batt voltage pin and fried the male connector at that point. Now I had been riding in mud and water at the time although I had the connector filled with silicon grease it looked like it had dried up but the connector has been so hot I would not be able to tell if water ingress was at vault.

On reading the motor on the ST Link the motor reads OK and all the program memory and option byte read correctly. But the LCD3 only responds with a full display of every character when I press the power up button on the TSDZ2 handle bar keypad. Any clues as to whether the LCD3 has been fried as well and how to test.

The other question does anyone have the LCD3 download and program routine, its been so long since I've had mine running that I can't remember what pins we need to program it and nor the file for the ST Link. Buba used to have it on his github but for some reason I can't seem to find his gitub. It maybe worth a shot to see if it can be programmed.

Thanks.

Contact https://www.electrifybike.com
I'm still using the LCD3 with version 20 on one of my bikes and we are still using it on some new builds. The version that we have is much better than the one that Bubba ended with. It was updated by mbrusa last spring. It has much more low-end power and smooth startup power than V1.1.0 has. The problem is you have to disassemble the LCD3 to flash it, so it takes a lot more time to flash.
If someone would fix the low-end problems on version 1.1.0 with the code from this V20 that would be awesome!
Or if someone could get this version of 20 to work on the 860C that would be awesome!

 

[maximusdm]

I have created a detailed tutorial for hardware calibration of the torque sensor. Any feedback is welcome.
https://github.com/bbeschea/TSDZ2_wiki/wiki/TSDZ2-wiki

 

[jbalat]

Sorry guys I have been away from this forum for a little while. Still running buba v20b1 on the old dual suspension 26in Norco and thinking of maybe upgrading to a Giant Roam E+ Just because the norco and motor are getting a little tired and I think the giant will be more suitable for the road.

Anyway the Motor has been running a little loud and rough, in fact it almost felt like I would be better off switching the motor off as I couldn’t feel that much assistance, it was definitely there but it felt like it had lots of drag holding it back... so I took it apart form both sides for a long needed clean and regrease... nothing obviously wrong and no noticeable wear from what I could tell. Seems to be better now but haven’t ridden very far yet. Hard to estimate how many kms now but in excess of 25k is my guess.

Anyway now that it seems to be running smoother I just wanted to check what is the latest with the ktlcd3 version ? Has anyone implemented field weakening yet. Can anyone please link to the latest version if you think it is worth upgrading ?

Thanks
JB

 

[Waynemarlow]

V20.1 on the LCD3 with the latest FOC code, that would be cool. Still think the LCD3 screen is the best in actual use.

25K km, do you ever get off that bike of yours

 

[Elinx]

......

Anyway now that it seems to be running smoother I just wanted to check what is the latest with the ktlcd3 version ? Has anyone implemented field weakening yet. Can anyone please link to the latest version if you think it is worth upgrading ?

Version 20b1 is unchanged for KT-LCD3 and stock displays. Latest mod for overrun was from mbrusa.
I was hoping that mbrusa take a look at his build, but still no improvements
Only mspider65 bluetooth fork of v20b1 has implemented fieldweakening.

 

[jbalat]

do you know if the mspider version is compatible with ktlcd3?

BTW the motor runs 10 times better now that its been serviced. Well worth the effort !!

 

[mbrusa]

Hi everyone
The new version for stock displays is almost ready,, with field weakening and other news, we are doing the last tests.
Then I intend to adapt it to LCD3 too, just a little patience.

 

[Waynemarlow]

Hi everyone
The new version for stock displays is almost ready,, with field weakening and other news, we are doing the last tests.
Then I intend to adapt it to LCD3 too, just a little patience.

Oooh that sounds exciting, thanks for all the work guys.

 

[Waynemarlow]

do you know if the mspider version is compatible with ktlcd3?

BTW the motor runs 10 times better now that its been serviced. Well worth the effort !!

Jbalat you have probably the highest mileage on any motor, perhaps it maybe worthwhile doing a write up of what you did to " revive " the motor as I suspect there are others in a similar situation of needing a good service.

 

[Elinx]

.....
The new version for stock displays is almost ready,, with field weakening and other news, .............

Oh.... that is really good news.
That is problably the reason why it is so silent on the fora. :wink:

 

[Beli]

The new version for stock displays is almost ready,, with field weakening and other news, we are doing the last tests.
Then I intend to adapt it to LCD3 too, just a little patience.

@mbrusa
Just for my understanding: is the v.0.20.0beta1 basically the same motor software than the one for the OEM display? I had a look at the source and it seems so.

I'm asking that because at the moment I'm developing my own display and I'm still not sure what display protocol to use. Till now I tried beside stock the ESP32 version, V1.1.0 and emmebrusa for OEM displays. Personally I'm satisfied most with the version for OEM displays.
I don't know what causes it. But other open source software doesn't work so well for me. They are not as responsive and when almost idling there is some strange howling, doesn't sound as smooth.