TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

[hetm4n]

yesterday I was testing 20.1C in the mountains. I have the same feelings. before I was still driving 0.8. On 0.8, on the same routes I did 43km, while on 20.1c only 27km. engine assist set at a similar level. I rode with a 50-70 cadence because I like it.

 

[jbalat]

yesterday I was testing 20.1C in the mountains. I have the same feelings. before I was still driving 0.8. On 0.8, on the same routes I did 43km, while on 20.1c only 27km. engine assist set at a similar level. I rode with a 50-70 cadence because I like it.

Just looking at motor.c it looks like field weakening is activated at max duty cycle but it should be activated when cadence>83

I think you can disable field weakening by commenting out the update to the fw_angle variable

 else if ((ui8_g_duty_cycle == PWM_DUTY_CYCLE_MAX)
                && (ui8_fw_angle_max > 0)
                && (ui8_adc_battery_current_filtered < ui8_controller_adc_battery_current_target)) {
            // reset duty cycle ramp down counter (filter)
            ui8_counter_duty_cycle_ramp_down = 0;

            if (++ui8_counter_duty_cycle_ramp_up > ui8_controller_duty_cycle_ramp_up_inverse_step) {
               ui8_counter_duty_cycle_ramp_up = 0;

               // increment field weakening angle
               if (ui8_fw_angle < ui8_fw_angle_max)
                   ui8_fw_angle++;
            }

Update to

     // increment field weakening angle
               if (ui8_fw_angle < ui8_fw_angle_max)
                   //ui8_fw_angle++;

 

[casainho]

Just looking at motor.c it looks like field weakening is activated at max duty cycle but it should be activated when cadence>83

I implemented Field Weakening that way, it is supposed to work at any cadence value, not only when cadence > 83. If the battery has low voltage, then Field Weakening should be active even if cadence < 83!!

There are some reasons for battery voltage to be low. One extreme case is that some users are using a 24V battery with a 36V TSDZ2 motor.

 

[Mr.Flibble]

I'm on a test drive. Much better than 1.1.0, you can say a masterpiece, the hybrid mode is a revelation. But, it's terribly power-hungry. After 12 km on flat terrain, I heated up to 72 °, the consumption was quite high in the 5th mode out of 9 practically around 500W pulls. 3V battery drop after 12km. Where on 0.8 I did 2x as much on a similar support factor (50%), but I never reached 60 ° on the same route. And the power fluctuated in the range of 100-250W with the same sensations of support.

This weakening of the field does not suit me terribly, I like a low cadence, but when I crank the crank around 110, I do not feel any resistance at all and the 350W power consumption jumps in. It is a pity that it can not be turned off because it may be the reason of power-hungry in the lower term, and the effect of 0 ...

The first time you try this version it is normal to experience higher consumption, I have experienced it myself. Especially if you keep the same driving habits.
When the motor responds well it is easy to get carried away.
It is about finding the right balance between performance and consumption, there are the parameters to do it.
Now for me, of all the versions I have tried it is the one that consumes the least.

As for Field Weakening, it is activated only when the PWM reaches the maximum, but the loss of efficiency occurs only at high cadences, I do not understand the need to reach 110.
I will however add the ability to disable it, maximum customization is a priority for OSF.

"I do not understand the need to reach 110."
For Mountain biking,when you have short steep climbs that you need a run up for.
You need to spin at high cadence due to the low gear and speed needed for the run up and climb.
I'm sure there are other reason too.

 

[Mr.Flibble]

Just looking at motor.c it looks like field weakening is activated at max duty cycle but it should be activated when cadence>83

I implemented Field Weakening that way, it is supposed to work at any cadence value, not only when cadence > 83. If the battery has low voltage, then Field Weakening should be active even if cadence < 83!!

There are some reasons for battery voltage to be low. One extreme case is that some users are using a 24V battery with a 36V TSDZ2 motor.

Why does FOC need to kick in at low battery voltage, and not just at high cadence?
Sorry for my ignorance.

 

[casainho]

Just looking at motor.c it looks like field weakening is activated at max duty cycle but it should be activated when cadence>83

I implemented Field Weakening that way, it is supposed to work at any cadence value, not only when cadence > 83. If the battery has low voltage, then Field Weakening should be active even if cadence < 83!!

There are some reasons for battery voltage to be low. One extreme case is that some users are using a 24V battery with a 36V TSDZ2 motor.

Why does FOC need to kick in at low battery voltage, and not just at high cadence?
Sorry for my ignorance.

It is not FOC, it is Field Weakening.

Field Weakening needs to start at a low voltage so the motor speed can increase as also the pedal cadence.

 

[martin.shane]

I just installed new firmware ( 1.01 ) and 860C display. Is GREAT!
Regarding noise- is much pleasant. no gridding noise at all ( I have installed in on one of my 4 motors with made a gridding noise)
Smooth sound and less decibels for sure.
I try to set up it right. Almost done. One thing bothers me. When i stop pedaling or rear wheel jumps on something i have a delay and need to pedal some time like "without assistance" . Something I have not notice in OEM firmware.
I have try BOOST option and different assist levels , also torque and power mode. All the same. I have a knee problem after motocross accident and in such a case i put too much stress on it. I can feel it
How to fix it? ( motor and parameters not knee) :lol: )

 

[mbrusa]

I don't know what to think about consumption and heating.
Today I tried the new bike that I have prepared for the summer, there is also the temperature sensor.
Round of 22 km, mixed route, short but challenging climbs.
I pedal at 60rpm on average and uphill I go down to 50 with 250W / 350W motor power sufficient to overcome slopes over 20%.
With outside temperature 10 ° C, the maximum motor temperature was 40 ° C.
I tried to disable Field Weakening. In my way of using the bike I have not noticed any differences, only by forcing the pedaling to increase the cadence we understand that above 80 rpm it is less reactive.
The version I am trying is not the released one, it is updated to mspider65 v12 (without hall calibration), motor fast stop and other small changes.

 

[mbrusa]

...
I try to set up it right. Almost done. One thing bothers me. When i stop pedaling or rear wheel jumps on something i have a delay and need to pedal some time like "without assistance" . Something I have not notice in OEM firmware.
I have try BOOST option and different assist levels , also torque and power mode. All the same. I have a knee problem after motocross accident and in such a case i put too much stress on it. I can feel it
How to fix it? ( motor and parameters not knee) :lol: )

This should be fixed in the next update.

 

[martin.shane]

Great!
Thank U

 

[martin.shane]

I try to calibrate torque sensor as value i have now are quite odd.
Funny thing that if i set pedals paralel and for example left pedal is "ready" to be pushed down ( forward) it shows me as a right, if I turn pedals 180 ( right forward) then I see it exactly opposite in technical - as a left pedal.
Also I have notice very low data for ADC torque sensor . For 0 weight shows 160...
What i have made wrong? Is my Tq sensor broken?

 

[blazo]

I don't know what to think about consumption and heating.
Today I tried the new bike that I have prepared for the summer, there is also the temperature sensor.
Round of 22 km, mixed route, short but challenging climbs.
I pedal at 60rpm on average and uphill I go down to 50 with 250W / 350W motor power sufficient to overcome slopes over 20%.
With outside temperature 10 ° C, the maximum motor temperature was 40 ° C.
I tried to disable Field Weakening. In my way of using the bike I have not noticed any differences, only by forcing the pedaling to increase the cadence we understand that above 80 rpm it is less reactive.
The version I am trying is not the released one, it is updated to mspider65 v12 (without hall calibration), motor fast stop and other small changes.

Thanks for answer. If you didn't notice heating difference when disabling Field Weakening maybe it's something different that was changed in new firmwares?
Heating is a real thing, I was checking it twice to be sure, on same uphill test route, and same conditions,cadence about 75-80 (52v battery,48v motor). It's not a little difference, it's always much more heating in new firmwares. (I tested about 50c temp (old firmware f.e. 0.19,0.20, 0.8.0) compared to 85c temp (20.1c, 1.1.0 - at the top of the hill)
Anyway, can Field Weakening be optional in future firmwares? I don't understand the code but I can help and make further tests and check if it makes so much difference as downgrading to old firmwares.

 

[hetm4n]

"I do not understand the need to reach 110."
For Mountain biking,when you have short steep climbs that you need a run up for.
You need to spin at high cadence due to the low gear and speed needed for the run up and climb.
I'm sure there are other reason too.

we got it wrong. I tested it with a 110 cadence and despite the lack of resistance, the motor consumed around 300W. I drive in the mountains with an average cadence of 60-70 rpm. I don't need a high cadence.

 

[jbalat]

Thanks for answer. If you didn't notice heating difference when disabling Field Weakening maybe it's something different that was changed in new firmwares?
Heating is a real thing, I was checking it twice to be sure, on same uphill test route, and same conditions,cadence about 75-80 (52v battery,48v motor). It's not a little difference, it's always much more heating in new firmwares. (I tested about 50c temp (old firmware f.e. 0.19,0.20, 0.8.0) compared to 85c temp (20.1c, 1.1.0 - at the top of the hill)
Anyway, can Field Weakening be optional in future firmwares? I don't understand the code but I can help and make further tests and check if it makes so much difference as downgrading to old firmwares.

Please keep in mind this thread is not for 1.1.0 but only for 20.1c and future updates so make sure you are clear.

Now after saying that I believe there is an option in 1.1.0 to disable field weakening.. So you may want to give that a try

Just my observation which is similar to MrBrusa that 20.1c has not affected my temperature or my range too much but it does feel like it has more punch especially with boost enabled. It looks like most users with temperature issues are doing lots of climbing.

 

[JohnAnanda]

Just my observation which is similar to MrBrusa that 20.1c has not affected my temperature or my range too much but it does feel like it has more punch especially with boost enabled. It looks like most users with temperature issues are doing lots of climbing.

Yep, that's how it's been for me as well.
I do have a significant temperature increase and can overheat when using full power uphill (I have a temperature sensor installed), but it's no worst than the 20.1B version I used before. I rarely go over 85 cadence.
Concerning consumption, it's a bit lower for me compared to 20.1B, thanks to the hybrid mode : I set a stronger assist in torque mode than in cadence mode, so the motor helps a lot from a standstill and gradually less when the bike is rolling. It's equivalent to the boost in power mode, but I like the extra flexibility that the hybrid mode allows (like having different torque/power modes ratios in different levels).
By the way Mbrusa, I'd be curious to know around which cadence does the power mode start to be prevalent over torque mode in hybrid.

 

[mbrusa]

I did not explain myself well, my test was not oriented to the temperature, it is the first time I use the sensor, I don't even know if it works well.
The comparison was to verify the response of the motor with Field Weakening enabled or disabled. For how I use the bike, low cadence and low acceleration, I didn't notice any differences.
I don't want to say that Field Weakening is useless, there are those who need to pedal at a high cadence and accept less efficiency and those who do not accept it.
I published on GitHub the pre-release for 860C that I am testing, https://github.com/emmebrusa/TSDZ2-Smart-EBike-860C/tree/master/releases/v20.1C.2-860C, you can enable / disable Field Weakening, so those with temperature problems can check if it depends on that.
There are other interesting changes too, I will prepare a list.

 

[dameri]

Very big thank's to mbusa you keep developing

 

[blazo]

Just my observation which is similar to MrBrusa that 20.1c has not affected my temperature or my range too much but it does feel like it has more punch especially with boost enabled. It looks like most users with temperature issues are doing lots of climbing.

Yep, that's how it's been for me as well.
I do have a significant temperature increase and can overheat when using full power uphill (I have a temperature sensor installed), but it's no worst than the 20.1B version I used before. I rarely go over 85 cadence.
Concerning consumption, it's a bit lower for me compared to 20.1B, thanks to the hybrid mode : I set a stronger assist in torque mode than in cadence mode, so the motor helps a lot from a standstill and gradually less when the bike is rolling. It's equivalent to the boost in power mode, but I like the extra flexibility that the hybrid mode allows (like having different torque/power modes ratios in different levels).
By the way Mbrusa, I'd be curious to know around which cadence does the power mode start to be prevalent over torque mode in hybrid.

I was comparing 20.1c to old 0.20 lcd-3 firmware not 20.1B , and there is much increase.

I cannot think about better test than I did. And still I have same repetitive results.
I am not saying it is the field weakening problem, I don't know, I just showed my test results, that firmwares 20.1c and 1.1.0 shows much more temp than firmware 0.8.0 and 0.19 or 0.20 on the same route and all other conditions I mentioned above.

 

[blazo]

I did not explain myself well, my test was not oriented to the temperature, it is the first time I use the sensor, I don't even know if it works well.
The comparison was to verify the response of the motor with Field Weakening enabled or disabled. For how I use the bike, low cadence and low acceleration, I didn't notice any differences.
I don't want to say that Field Weakening is useless, there are those who need to pedal at a high cadence and accept less efficiency and those who do not accept it.
I published on GitHub the pre-release for 860C that I am testing, https://github.com/emmebrusa/TSDZ2-Smart-EBike-860C/tree/master/releases/v20.1C.2-860C, you can enable / disable Field Weakening, so those with temperature problems can check if it depends on that.
There are other interesting changes too, I will prepare a list.

Thank you for developing!
I will make the test as soon as possible on my test route, with field weakening and without. (I can do this in weekend)

Another thing that comes to my mind, maybe temperature algorithm was changed? or sth else.. As I said earlier I don't know the code, so I can only help making tests to find this Anyway, we will see after test, I will keep all the conditions the same as previously.

 

[seattlesockey]

I continue to use and enjoy v20.1c-860C. Thanks mbrusa!

I could use a little help to better understand the Power assist level and Hybrid mode.

The Power assist wiki description refers to “value%/2”. My interpretation is the motor assist power is one-half of the assist level multiplied by the power applied to the pedals. However, the example in wiki indicates assist power is twice the assist level. (100 w @ pedals, 150 assist level = 300 w motor). How does the Power assist level multiply the power at the pedals in order to set the motor power?

My second question is about Hybrid mode. Since Hybrid is a combination of Power and Torque modes, are the assistance levels in Power and Torque intended to be set at the same values for each assistance level?

 

[andrea_104kg]

[/quote]

I was comparing 20.1c to old 0.20 lcd-3 firmware not 20.1B , and there is much increase.

I cannot think about better test than I did. And still I have same repetitive results.
I am not saying it is the field weakening problem, I don't know, I just showed my test results, that firmwares 20.1c and 1.1.0 shows much more temp than firmware 0.8.0 and 0.19 or 0.20 on the same route and all other conditions I mentioned above.
[/quote]
Out of curiosity what is your weight?
It is the same result that I had 27 ° cesius degrees of difference, 93.8 ° against 67 ° on the same climb, same afternoon same mtb. Unfortunately in my case this difference prevents me from using the mtb. Unfortunately the climb I have done is a common climb in my routes, there are much worse and I would certainly burn the engine. I also don't know what it actually depends on.

 

[blazo]

I was comparing 20.1c to old 0.20 lcd-3 firmware not 20.1B , and there is much increase.

I cannot think about better test than I did. And still I have same repetitive results.
I am not saying it is the field weakening problem, I don't know, I just showed my test results, that firmwares 20.1c and 1.1.0 shows much more temp than firmware 0.8.0 and 0.19 or 0.20 on the same route and all other conditions I mentioned above.

Out of curiosity what is your weight?
It is the same result that I had 27 ° cesius degrees of difference, 93.8 ° against 67 ° on the same climb, same afternoon same mtb. Unfortunately in my case this difference prevents me from using the mtb. Unfortunately the climb I have done is a common climb in my routes, there are much worse and I would certainly burn the engine. I also don't know what it actually depends on.

Hello, I weigh 75kg, I am riding my TSDZ2 with enduro bike in mountains, but to keep it cold I'm not using it above 500w, and when climb is long I use 300-400w and always check temperature, also I did temperature mod in the beginning ( thermal paste and pads - tutorial from wiki, it works )
Difference between old and new firmwares in temperature is significant in MTB riding. It is preventing me from upgrading - for now.

 

[martin.shane]

Now Im on firmware 0.20.1C. I had a problem with delay on 1.01 ( after stop pedaling and start again) Both firmware's are great. Thank U guys for developing.
I have a question regarding TQ sensor calibration on 0.20.1C.
For 1.01 there is detailed manual. But for 0.20 i can't see those numbers . It looks like there is a different idea implemented.
After 1.0.1 measurement i have find out that my TQ is not linear at all. Actually it shows logarithmic curve like for TSDZ1 ( motor from 12.2020 form PWSpower) So it needs to be calibrated.
DO I calibrate only min and max value for right pedal? And weight for 25 kg ?

Also i have a question how to limit max amps for motor to 15 A? This option is not available like it was in 1.01 May be by battery limit? or Max motor power?

Thanks for help.

 

[Elinx]

Now Im on firmware 0.20.1C. ..... It looks like there is a different idea implemented.
....my TQ is not linear at all. ...
DO I calibrate only min and max value for right pedal? And weight for 25 kg ?
...
Also i have a question how to limit max amps for motor to 15 A? ...

v0.20.1C isn't an update of Casainho's version, but a good attempt of mbrusa to fork for all display's the version of mspider65, an improved version of v0.20beta1-KTLCD3. For the different displays there are parts used of Casainho's version.

The torque sensor is only lineair for the first 25-40kg, That is why there is a calibration with 20-25kg weight. This was also the case with v0.20beta1-KTLCD3. The range of the torque sensor is between min. & max. value .
Casainho had compensated the torquevalues in his later versions to get the torquesupport lineair as possible.
This was a calibration across the complete range to find the curvature of the torquesensor.

For limiting the current you can do this for battery, which should also the limiting the motor.

 

[mbrusa]

I continue to use and enjoy v20.1c-860C. Thanks mbrusa!

I could use a little help to better understand the Power assist level and Hybrid mode.

The Power assist wiki description refers to “value%/2”. My interpretation is the motor assist power is one-half of the assist level multiplied by the power applied to the pedals. However, the example in wiki indicates assist power is twice the assist level. (100 w @ pedals, 150 assist level = 300 w motor). How does the Power assist level multiply the power at the pedals in order to set the motor power?

I am better off writing the code than the manual
"value% / 2" refers to the value of the assistance level.
"% value" is the% ratio of human power to motor power.
So perhaps it is more understandable:
assistance level value * 2 =% value
motor power = human power * value% / 100
Division by 2, is to hold the maximum value in 8 bits (memory problems).
Attention, to have an acceptable value of human power it is necessary to calibrate with the weight.

My second question is about Hybrid mode. Since Hybrid is a combination of Power and Torque modes, are the assistance levels in Power and Torque intended to be set at the same values for each assistance level?

Not necessarily, they can also be different. You can decide how much each modality contribution should be.

...
By the way Mbrusa, I'd be curious to know around which cadence does the power mode start to be prevalent over torque mode in hybrid.

It is not possible to define a cadence for changing modes, the range is very wide.
It depends on the ratio of the assistance parameters of Torque and Power (at the same level), moreover even after defining the assistance parameters, the mode change point is dynamic, it depends on the force applied to the pedals, the higher the thrust and the higher the cadence of the mode change.
A double change could also occur, with a light push it would switch to Power at a low cadence, then by increasing the push force to maximum, it could switch back to Torque and then again to Power at higher cadence.