TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

[maximusdm]

Bug found, it should now work.
Can you give me confirmation?
Thank you.

Only the hex file of the motor has changed.
https://github.com/emmebrusa/TSDZ2-Smart-EBike-860C/releases/tag/v20.1C-860C

Hi mbrusa,
How should we proceed for LCD3? Use same binary or can you update the LCD3 project code and release page?
I could make a pull req, but for one liner is more hassle.

 

[mbrusa]

The temperature control bug is only in the version for 860C-850C.
LCD3 and stock displays should work.
If anyone can confirm this, I have not installed a temperature sensor.

 

[AZUR]

This problem is especially important when riding mountain trails, where due to the difficulties of the paths, with many obstacles, we have to stop pedaling and press the pedal again to start pedaling a few tenths of a second later.

If the engine does not respond immediately, we can fall to the ground.


[/b]

yes, that is the main problem.
it's better with the new software. the re-turning is unfortunately still available.

mfg michael

HI Michael,

I reported this problem in September last year.

It seems that unfortunately it is not yet resolved.

I am preparing my engine to install the version of mbrusa, but it seems that I am not going to solve this problem yet.

This problem is very important to me and I hope it will be solved soon, because if it is not solved I will stop using TSDZ2.

In the post that I present below, the problem is well explained.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=93818&start=6250#p1584546

And in the video it can be well observed.

Casainho thinks the problem is what follows, but it has not yet been solved.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=93818&start=6275#p1585446



The link to the Video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvnlBgy8ulo

[youtube]LvnlBgy8ulo[/youtube]

I hope I'm helping.

Thanks,

Azur

 

[devboy-greg]

The temperature control bug is only in the version for 860C-850C.
LCD3 and stock displays should work.
If anyone can confirm this, I have not installed a temperature sensor.

I have just put a battery onto my bike (in the shed) which has a temp sensor fitted and your LCD3 software, it reports 8 Celsius, the ambient temperature outside is 9 Celsius, so I would say that is spot on.

On the past couple of rides I have been keeping an eye on the temperature and have not noticed anything out the ordinary, I haven't had the temp up high enough yet (probably due to cold temperatures here in UK at present) to trigger the throttling, my max temp was 70 Celsius and the throttling is set to start at 75 Celsius.

 

[mbrusa]

Thanks for the confirmation.

 

[michih.]

This problem is especially important when riding mountain trails, where due to the difficulties of the paths, with many obstacles, we have to stop pedaling and press the pedal again to start pedaling a few tenths of a second later.

If the engine does not respond immediately, we can fall to the ground.


[/b]

yes, that is the main problem.
it's better with the new software. the re-turning is unfortunately still available.

mfg michael

HI Michael,

I reported this problem in September last year.

It seems that unfortunately it is not yet resolved.

I am preparing my engine to install the version of mbrusa, but it seems that I am not going to solve this problem yet.

This problem is very important to me and I hope it will be solved soon, because if it is not solved I will stop using TSDZ2.

In the post that I present below, the problem is well explained.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=93818&start=6250#p1584546

And in the video it can be well observed.

Casainho thinks the problem is what follows, but it has not yet been solved.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=93818&start=6275#p1585446

Power delay 1.jpg

The link to the Video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvnlBgy8ulo

[youtube]LvnlBgy8ulo[/youtube]

I hope I'm helping.

Thanks,

Azur

yes i have a rocky mountain instinct power play. there is no comparison. the bike has a perfect response! Here in the video, bikee bike shows that its motor is responding or that it is even adjustable. if the sensitivity is too high, you can even feel a rough step.
Look at 1:58min. I think the sensitivity is muted on purpose. then the engine feels smoother.

https://youtu.be/MkHaSqcSNh8

MFG Michael

 

[AZUR]

Re: TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C.
by michih. » Mar 12 2021 6:46pm

yes i have a rocky mountain instinct power play. there is no comparison. the bike has a perfect response! Here in the video, bikee bike shows that its motor is responding or that it is even adjustable. if the sensitivity is too high, you can even feel a rough step.
Look at 1:58min. I think the sensitivity is muted on purpose. then the engine feels smoother.

https://youtu.be/MkHaSqcSNh8

MFG Michael

I already saw the video. I didn't know this Rocky Mountain motor. It seems interesting to me.

This "power delay Issue" probably needs some tools to solve it. Perhaps some tools for electrical systems. For example, an oscilloscope, to measure the current. I have no idea if it is solved only with software development.

I believe that with the collaboration of Casainho, Mbrusa, Mspider65 and others it can be solved.
They have been working hard.

I invested many hours to be able to identify the problem.
I will do whatever is necessary and be within my capabilities to help solve the problem.
Now, until further developments, I can’t do anything else to help.

Thanks
Azur

 

[casainho]

Re: TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C.
by michih. » Mar 12 2021 6:46pm

yes i have a rocky mountain instinct power play. there is no comparison. the bike has a perfect response! Here in the video, bikee bike shows that its motor is responding or that it is even adjustable. if the sensitivity is too high, you can even feel a rough step.
Look at 1:58min. I think the sensitivity is muted on purpose. then the engine feels smoother.

https://youtu.be/MkHaSqcSNh8

MFG Michael

I already saw the video. I didn't know this Rocky Mountain motor. It seems interesting to me.

This "power delay Issue" probably needs some tools to solve it. Perhaps some tools for electrical systems. For example, an oscilloscope, to measure the current. I have no idea if it is solved only with software development.

I believe that with the collaboration of Casainho, Mbrusa, Mspider65 and others it can be solved.
They have been working hard.

I invested many hours to be able to identify the problem.
I will do whatever is necessary and be within my capabilities to help solve the problem.
Now, until further developments, I can’t do anything else to help.

Thanks
Azur

I am being busy help developing the TSDZ2 wireless board, firmware, mobile app, fully wireless remote firmware and with 3D printed enclosures, and now the Garmin fields. Later I would like update my motor firmware with the improvements from other developers like mspider and mbrusa. I will keep following all this threads.
Also I guess I will work a bit to make the firmware running on the totally new motor controllers.

 

[michih.]

The Video is from Bikee Bike System.
https://www.lightest.bike/

MFG Michael

 

[AZUR]

editfftopic

 

[AZUR]

Re: TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C.
by michih. » Mar 12 2021 6:46pm

yes i have a rocky mountain instinct power play. there is no comparison. the bike has a perfect response! Here in the video, bikee bike shows that its motor is responding or that it is even adjustable. if the sensitivity is too high, you can even feel a rough step.
Look at 1:58min. I think the sensitivity is muted on purpose. then the engine feels smoother.

https://youtu.be/MkHaSqcSNh8

MFG Michael

I already saw the video. I didn't know this Rocky Mountain motor. It seems interesting to me.

This "power delay Issue" probably needs some tools to solve it. Perhaps some tools for electrical systems. For example, an oscilloscope, to measure the current. I have no idea if it is solved only with software development.

I believe that with the collaboration of Casainho, Mbrusa, Mspider65 and others it can be solved.
They have been working hard.

I invested many hours to be able to identify the problem.
I will do whatever is necessary and be within my capabilities to help solve the problem.
Now, until further developments, I can’t do anything else to help.

Thanks
Azur

I am being busy help developing the TSDZ2 wireless board, firmware, mobile app, fully wireless remote firmware and with 3D printed enclosures, and now the Garmin fields. Later I would like update my motor firmware with the improvements from other developers like mspider and mbrusa. I will keep following all this threads.
Also I guess I will work a bit to make the firmware running on the totally new motor controllers.

.

Mbrusa, Do you think you can try to solve the "Power Delay Issue"?

How can I help?

I have several videos on youtube that show the problem.

I haven't installed this version of the firmware yet because I haven't had the time but if it is necessary to install it to help, I try to do it as soon as possible.

I also have a problem with the mechanical part of the motor that I have to solve and because of that I haven't installed the firmware yet.

Michih mentioned in this forum, that the "Power Delay Issue" still exists, in this version of the firmware, although it is already a little better than in the Casainho`s version.

Mbrusa, have you found the problem? Have you seen it yet?

Can I help you?

Thank you for all your work, mbrusa.

Azur

 

[devboy-greg]

This motor looks like it has the same function as the Rocky Mountain bike motor, but it can be installed on a non-electric bike. It is similar?

It looks interesting and it looks like it will be light. It should be on sale soon.

Agreed it does look interesting, the weight is very impressive, however all those exposed idler gears (unlike the Rocky Mountain) would be a real worry for me, will it be able to put up with this kind of abuse:

 

[Waynemarlow]

This problem is especially important when riding mountain trails, where due to the difficulties of the paths, with many obstacles, we have to stop pedaling and press the pedal again to start pedaling a few tenths of a second later.

If the engine does not respond immediately, we can fall to the ground.


[/b]

yes, that is the main problem.
it's better with the new software. the re-turning is unfortunately still available.

mfg michael

HI Michael,

I reported this problem in September last year.

It seems that unfortunately it is not yet resolved.

I am preparing my engine to install the version of mbrusa, but it seems that I am not going to solve this problem yet.


Azur

I’m not sure the problem is as severe as you’re reporting. On the V20 on the KT -LCD3 in Power mode there was negliable to no delay if you were willing to switch on the non rotation power. In the VLCD5 version of MBrusa’s there was virtually no sign of delay, but a bit of over run appearing on high power levels, but actually in technical climbing even the Bosch engine which has over run, is being extolled by the critics as they are wanting a bit of over run, it gets you over the sheer climbs where you want to stop pedalling to kick the rear up over the obstacle and yet you still want a bit of drive. I have modified my riding style and concur that I like that extra moment of power when you stop pedalling. If you fit a rear brake switch you can instantly decouple the motor.

On the latest version of the V20 you now have another feature, which is a user set able, which adds a percentage of power at low rpm, it seems to smooth that low rpm transition to full cadence. My advice to the coders that there are few others reporting the delays, that it may well be unique to few motors and this could be something to look at over the next winter. Try the latest V20 preferably with the KT-LCD3 display where you can set the screen to show clearly what power the motor is using at what cadence and you could definitively see what’s going on.

Give the latest V20 a go, you maybe pleasantly surprised.

 

[michih.]

tried it today. the tsdz2 needs at least 180 ° until it reacts. you step 180 ° then stop, then the motor starts turning. although you don't do anything anymore. it is far too sluggish. my Rocky starts immediately and stops immediately.

MFG Michael

 

[michih.]

This problem is especially important when riding mountain trails, where due to the difficulties of the paths, with many obstacles, we have to stop pedaling and press the pedal again to start pedaling a few tenths of a second later.

If the engine does not respond immediately, we can fall to the ground.


[/b]

yes, that is the main problem.
it's better with the new software. the re-turning is unfortunately still available.

mfg michael

HI Michael,

I reported this problem in September last year.

It seems that unfortunately it is not yet resolved.

I am preparing my engine to install the version of mbrusa, but it seems that I am not going to solve this problem yet.


Azur

I’m not sure the problem is as severe as you’re reporting. On the V20 on the KT -LCD3 in Power mode there was negliable to no delay if you were willing to switch on the non rotation power. In the VLCD5 version of MBrusa’s there was virtually no sign of delay, but a bit of over run appearing on high power levels, but actually in technical climbing even the Bosch engine which has over run, is being extolled by the critics as they are wanting a bit of over run, it gets you over the sheer climbs where you want to stop pedalling to kick the rear up over the obstacle and yet you still want a bit of drive. I have modified my riding style and concur that I like that extra moment of power when you stop pedalling. If you fit a rear brake switch you can instantly decouple the motor.

On the latest version of the V20 you now have another feature, which is a user set able, which adds a percentage of power at low rpm, it seems to smooth that low rpm transition to full cadence. My advice to the coders that there are few others reporting the delays, that it may well be unique to few motors and this could be something to look at over the next winter. Try the latest V20 preferably with the KT-LCD3 display where you can set the screen to show clearly what power the motor is using at what cadence and you could definitively see what’s going on.

Give the latest V20 a go, you maybe pleasantly surprised.

a way to adjust the delay as it has Bikee Bike would be perfect. one likes it indirectly, the other doesn't want to behave unnaturally.

MFG Michael

 

[mbrusa]

Mbrusa, Do you think you can try to solve the "Power Delay Issue"?

How can I help?

I have several videos on youtube that show the problem.

I haven't installed this version of the firmware yet because I haven't had the time but if it is necessary to install it to help, I try to do it as soon as possible.

I also have a problem with the mechanical part of the motor that I have to solve and because of that I haven't installed the firmware yet.

Michih mentioned in this forum, that the "Power Delay Issue" still exists, in this version of the firmware, although it is already a little better than in the Casainho`s version.

Mbrusa, have you found the problem? Have you seen it yet?

Can I help you?

Thank you for all your work, mbrusa.

Azur

I know the problem, I did a lot of tests on this one at the beginning of the year, it improved but it is not solved, then my interest shifted to LCD3 and 860C.
Now that the adaptation to the displays is finished, I have to refresh my memory and continue ...

 

[Waynemarlow]

tried it today. the tsdz2 needs at least 180 ° until it reacts. you step 180 ° then stop, then the motor starts turning. although you don't do anything anymore. it is far too sluggish. my Rocky starts immediately and stops immediately.

MFG Michael

With which version ?

 

[michih.]

tried it today. the tsdz2 needs at least 180 ° until it reacts. you step 180 ° then stop, then the motor starts turning. although you don't do anything anymore. it is far too sluggish. my Rocky starts immediately and stops immediately.

MFG Michael

With which version ?

20.1c
I think the torque mode is the fastest.

MFG Michael

 

[JohnAnanda]

Hi,

Thank you so much mbrusa for your work !

I read earlier in this thread about the support for SW102 display with 20.1C firmware.
Will this eventually happen or should I get a VLCD6 or XH18 if I want a minimalist display ?
(I'm kinda cursed with displays : I stupidly fried a SW102 while checking if I didn't fry it earlier when flashing it for firmware 1.1, got a second one that's sitting idle because I really like 20.1C, and my ordered VLCD6 got lost in the mail..)

Concerning the power delay, I agree with Waynemarlow that with "startup assistance without pedaling" enabled, together with fine tuning the "assist without pedaling threshold" parameter, the power delivery is almost instant (I use the torque/power hybrid assist mode). With theses setting, I recommend having ebrakes enabled.

 

[devboy-greg]

tried it today. the tsdz2 needs at least 180 ° until it reacts. you step 180 ° then stop, then the motor starts turning. although you don't do anything anymore. it is far too sluggish. my Rocky starts immediately and stops immediately.

MFG Michael

I concur with @waynemarlow about this latest v20.1c software, I need no rotation to get power with ‘power without rotation’ enabled.

On my bike with no brake sensors I can hold the bike with the back brake and apply a small amount of pressure (which is customisable in settings) to the pedal and the motor delivers power – lots!

I also like the slight motor overrun when I stop peddling.

 

[mbrusa]

Hi,

Thank you so much mbrusa for your work !

I read earlier in this thread about the support for SW102 display with 20.1C firmware.
Will this eventually happen or should I get a VLCD6 or XH18 if I want a minimalist display ?
(I'm kinda cursed with displays : I stupidly fried a SW102 while checking if I didn't fry it earlier when flashing it for firmware 1.1, got a second one that's sitting idle because I really like 20.1C, and my ordered VLCD6 got lost in the mail..)

Concerning the power delay, I agree with Waynemarlow that with "startup assistance without pedaling" enabled, together with fine tuning the "assist without pedaling threshold" parameter, the power delivery is almost instant (I use the torque/power hybrid assist mode). With theses setting, I recommend having ebrakes enabled.

With SW102 there is still some small problem with the configuration menu.
If you want to try, I sent you the test version in PM.

 

[michih.]

Hi,

Thank you so much mbrusa for your work !

I read earlier in this thread about the support for SW102 display with 20.1C firmware.
Will this eventually happen or should I get a VLCD6 or XH18 if I want a minimalist display ?
(I'm kinda cursed with displays : I stupidly fried a SW102 while checking if I didn't fry it earlier when flashing it for firmware 1.1, got a second one that's sitting idle because I really like 20.1C, and my ordered VLCD6 got lost in the mail..)

Concerning the power delay, I agree with Waynemarlow that with "startup assistance without pedaling" enabled, together with fine tuning the "assist without pedaling threshold" parameter, the power delivery is almost instant (I use the torque/power hybrid assist mode). With theses setting, I recommend having ebrakes enabled.

from the stand, yes. but when rolling, starting and responding is delayed.


MFG Michael

 

[JohnAnanda]

Concerning the power delay, I agree with Waynemarlow that with "startup assistance without pedaling" enabled, together with fine tuning the "assist without pedaling threshold" parameter, the power delivery is almost instant (I use the torque/power hybrid assist mode). With theses setting, I recommend having ebrakes enabled.

from the stand, yes. but when rolling, starting and responding is delayed.


MFG Michael

Don't forget the "Min current ADC step" parameter that mbrusa has implemented.
I've set it on "1" and the response is quasi instant even when rolling.

 

[michih.]

Concerning the power delay, I agree with Waynemarlow that with "startup assistance without pedaling" enabled, together with fine tuning the "assist without pedaling threshold" parameter, the power delivery is almost instant (I use the torque/power hybrid assist mode). With theses setting, I recommend having ebrakes enabled.

from the stand, yes. but when rolling, starting and responding is delayed.


MFG Michael

Don't forget the "Min current ADC step" parameter that mbrusa has implemented.
I've set it on "1" and the response is quasi instant even when rolling.

I also have 1. but it still reacts slowly.

mbrusa wrote, he knows the problem and wants to fix it. that would be great!

MFG Michael

 

[AZUR]

This problem is especially important when riding mountain trails, where due to the difficulties of the paths, with many obstacles, we have to stop pedaling and press the pedal again to start pedaling a few tenths of a second later.

If the engine does not respond immediately, we can fall to the ground.


[/b]

yes, that is the main problem.
it's better with the new software. the re-turning is unfortunately still available.

mfg michael

HI Michael,

I reported this problem in September last year.

It seems that unfortunately it is not yet resolved.

I am preparing my engine to install the version of mbrusa, but it seems that I am not going to solve this problem yet.


Azur

I’m not sure the problem is as severe as you’re reporting. On the V20 on the KT -LCD3 in Power mode there was negliable to no delay if you were willing to switch on the non rotation power. In the VLCD5 version of MBrusa’s there was virtually no sign of delay, but a bit of over run appearing on high power levels, but actually in technical climbing even the Bosch engine which has over run, is being extolled by the critics as they are wanting a bit of over run, it gets you over the sheer climbs where you want to stop pedalling to kick the rear up over the obstacle and yet you still want a bit of drive. I have modified my riding style and concur that I like that extra moment of power when you stop pedalling. If you fit a rear brake switch you can instantly decouple the motor.

On the latest version of the V20 you now have another feature, which is a user set able, which adds a percentage of power at low rpm, it seems to smooth that low rpm transition to full cadence. My advice to the coders that there are few others reporting the delays, that it may well be unique to few motors and this could be something to look at over the next winter. Try the latest V20 preferably with the KT-LCD3 display where you can set the screen to show clearly what power the motor is using at what cadence and you could definitively see what’s going on.

Give the latest V20 a go, you maybe pleasantly surprised.

Thanks Waynemarlow

What do you mean by "non rotation power"? Is it torque mode?

If it is torque mode I am not interested in using it.

It is not the way we use non-electric bikes. The natural mode is Power. The higher the cadence, the greater the power. For me otherwise it doesn't make sense.

I want to ride a bike, not a motorcycle.

I apologize. I don't want to be impolite. It is not my goal.

I am not exposing a problem in writing, nor are my thoughts or feelings.
I want to be precise, I'm an engineer.
I spent a lot of time trying to demonstrate what happens, in the motor, to be able to help solve the problem.

As you can see in the video, if you stop pedaling and start pedaling again, it is only 1.5 seconds after the restart that the motor starts to react. The bicycle doesn't stop, it keeps moving, when I stop pedaling.

To see the problem, I can only restart, pedaling, after the engine is completely stopped without any current. With this scenario, the problem can be replicated.

The test was carried out on a flat, unobstructed road. You can see, on the screen, with the cadence information, that even when pedaling the motor does not react.

They are not perceptions. They are exact measurements.

If the situation happens in the face of an obstacle, in which we almost stop, the situation is worse. For example, on a mountain trail with obstacles made of stones or tree roots.

I'm talking about the latest version, before Casainho starts the development of wireless. OSF V1.0.0. The video was made in September 2020.

If you use a video player, where you can watch the video, in slow motion, it is easier to analyze all the information.

I use a video player, free for windows.
I downloaded it here: https://www.nchsoftware.com/videopad/index.html

In the video you can see the evolution of the following fields, on screens and in real time:

Engine screen

- assist level
- velocity
- Motor Speed
- PWM engine
- Motor current
- cadence
- battery voltage

Garmin

- Human power
- cadence
- velocity

Mobile phone screen with the BMS App

- Battery current
- battery temperature

Thanks

Azur