TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

[Elinx]

...
Basically, I'm a bit distracted by there basically being 3 "big-ish" forks that all seems to originate from the above repo v0.20.
What's the cause of this? As no project actually has documented what has lead to that fork....

Till OSF v0.19 there was just one base
Casainho has further developed above v0.19
The final v 0.20Beta1 of buba is based on v.019 too,
The last build of marcoq was based on v0.19,
mspider65 and mbrusa has developed their builds above v0.20Beta1
mbrusa latest builds are based on mspider65 versions.
So it is a tangle of different builds.

The reason?
Casainho didn't accept related builds for stock display's with his development and insisted a seperated fork (and topic) for these versions.
Buba, Marcoq and Casainho' have stopped developing for Tsdz2, so only the forks stay alive

Edit. EndlesCadence was involved till v0.16

 

[ornias]

The reason?
Casainho didn't accept related builds for stock display's with his development and insisted a seperated fork (and topic) for these versions.
EndlessCadence, Marcoq and Casainho' have stopped developing for Tsdz2, so only the forks stay alive

Interesting notes, really a shame Casainho never actually wrote down any of those "don't want to accept stock display support" in the project readme.

It also seems to be a thing that people are dropping development of TSDZ2 firmwares the second they start doing something else... which is a real shame.

Anhow, sounds like the go-to is mbrusa? How does mbrusa hold op to the continued development of casainho, both in featureset and bike performance? Anything relevant I/we should all know?

 

[endlessolli]

Interesting notes, really a shame Casainho never actually wrote down any of those "don't want to accept stock display support" in the project readme.

It also seems to be a thing that people are dropping development of TSDZ2 firmwares the second they start doing something else... which is a real shame.

Anhow, sounds like the go-to is mbrusa? How does mbrusa hold op to the continued development of casainho, both in featureset and bike performance? Anything relevant I/we should all know?

Both mbrusa and mspider65 Firmware-Versions are in active development since quite some time.
They differ in featureset / goal:
mspider65 uses an additional ESP32 to integrate an Android-App for motor-finetuning and realtime monitoring of many parameters.
mbrusa has 3 Versions for different display groups, each trying to cope best with the limitations the respective displays.

Performancewise they are very close, with mspider offering additional finetuning, which needs the extra brainpower of the ESP.

For more in depth, I would read their github content in depth - note especially the "manual" folder in the case of mbrusa

PS: Since this is the thread for mbrusa firmware, these more general TSDZ2 topics should be discussed better here (I think):
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=79788

 

[Elinx]

..... ... "don't want to accept stock display support" in the project readme.

...dropping development of TSDZ2 firmwares the second they start doing something else... .....

Casainho was alway's clear about his goal and he does mention the forks in the main wiki.
Casainho hasn't dropped developement completely, but because mbrusa has picked up development OSF for all displays, he could take a step back and get involved with related projects. It is his time and his choice what to do with it.
Without his involvement there would be no OSF for Tsdz2. So i'm thankfull for that.

 

[ornias]

Thanks for the clearity @endlessolli

To be clear: I'm a full time opensource maintainer myself (and also basically co-maintain the m500/m600 repo with @casainho who's nick I always write wrong...) and the way the projects are presented to the user is... not great at all.

Like: I'm a developer and I'm looking at how I can push the OSF's a bit further. But even getting a basic understanding of repo structures, goals and what the heck is up with displays takes a mater of hours.

This is not meant to be an attack on any of these great projects at all and I know what an utter pain documentation can be. From a professional perspective the "it's all clearly documented, look it up" comments, really are not warranted.

TLDR:
I wouldn't have asked if things where clear from the readme's.

Casainho was alway's clear about his goal and he does mention the forks in the main wiki.
Casainho hasn't dropped developement completely,

He basically has, development on all his ebike related projects from him has siezed for a long time by now.
And to quote:
"To be clear, I do not have interested on TSDZ2 motor anymore. "

Which is 100% okey. he's also still always super responsive, easy to work with and super supportive.
But he definately stopped working on TSDZ2. Which every maintainer has every right to, I myself have also stopped working on specific projects for different reasons many times.

but because mbrusa has picked up development OSF for all displays, he could take a step back and get involved with related projects. It is his time and his choice what to do with it.
Without his involvement there would be no OSF for Tsdz2. So i'm thankfull for that.

I don't get the passive agressive tone here, as I didn't say anything negative at al.

---

Anyway:
I'm a proponent of "putting money/effort where my mouth is" and that was why I was asking what the relationship between these project is (and isn't). Because if we want users and developers to easily find their way in the TSDZ2 OSF landscape, some of these things definately need to be a LOT more clear.

So, Thanks for all the great advice on how these projects fit together... so i can start working on shit

 

[Elinx]

....
I don't get the passive agressive tone here,...

It was not intended that way. It was more of an elucidation at my earlier overview.

... was asking what the relationship between these project is (and isn't). Because if we want users and developers to easily find their way in the TSDZ2 OSF landscape, some of these things definately need to be a LOT more clear.....

I think you have a point there. I have followed the development from start on the different treads, but with the information on github I sometimes get lost.
The main wiki is cleaned up on regulary base with latest Casainho development, so you can find old info about other displays only by deep digging if you know how and what. Because mbrusa's build is directed to that main wiki I understand the confusion if you can't find anything from mbrusa's build.

 

[ornias]

....
I don't get the passive agressive tone here,...

It was not intended that way. It was more of an elucidation at my earlier overview.

... was asking what the relationship between these project is (and isn't). Because if we want users and developers to easily find their way in the TSDZ2 OSF landscape, some of these things definately need to be a LOT more clear.....

I think you have a point there. I have followed the development from start on the different treads, but with the information on github I sometimes get lost.
The main wiki is cleaned up on regulary base with latest Casainho development, so you can find old info about other displays only by deep digging if you know how and what. Because mbrusa's build is directed to that main wiki I understand the confusion if you can't find anything from mbrusa's build.

No offense taken

I'm currently rebuilding all the opensource ebike documentation into a consolidated docusaurus wiki/documentation website.
Initial PoC is done

 

[pxl666]

hey . quick question... how do I recognize if torq sensor shows 20 or 200 when pedal is not pressed on vlcd6 ? I'm not sure if I understand it right

 

[Elinx]

... torq sensor shows 20 or 200 when pedal is not pressed on vlcd6 ? ...

For torque reading use 3 digits, the difference is 020 or 200.

 

[pxl666]

... torq sensor shows 20 or 200 when pedal is not pressed on vlcd6 ? ...

For torque reading use 3 digits, the difference is 020 or 200.

thank you sir . for faulty speed sensor - there is procedure to allow vlcd6 work with malfuctioning speed sensor but i cannot get it right ... can this be changed in FW file and uploaded to motor with java configurator ? because i see no such option in configurator ...
i have to do workaround for a while before new cable arrives, as i was unable to locate damaged wire in my cable, so every time i go somewhere my motor gives e05 after 5 10 or 15 km and its kinda frustrating ...

 

[Elinx]

.... i cannot get it right ... can this be changed in FW file and uploaded to motor with java configurator ? because i see no such option in configurator ......

You can't get this "ignore error" setting permanent. You must enable this setting inside java configurator tab 2 (assistence settings) light configuration mode 3 - 10


From the configuration manual:
"Lights mode 3
10 – “Assistance with sensors error”, to enable assistance even in the presence of an error caused by a
sensor failure. At power on, it is always disabled. "

So you can only enable this setting on display, because it is an emergency setting.
Level 4 - E04 (2+2+2 pushes)

With Vlcd6 this cost some time and patience, becasue every light push on that specific display must be 2 seconds.

 

[mbrusa]

@mbrosa could you explain how your firmware repo "0" and "1" are related?
maybe also add that to the description of those?
...

The TSDZ2-Smart-EBike-0 repository is the first one created.
It was pointed out to me that this was not a fork but a clone and therefore the link with the previous history was lost.
I then created a new TSDZ2-Smart-EBike-1 repository, which is the official one of the stock display versions.
TSDZ2-Smart-EBike-0 I then used it as a private repository for my tests. At the moment it is public only because I had to release a version that has never been tested, in this period I am unable to do so, so I prefer not to release it in the official repository.
When I have a positive feedback and I can try it myself, the TSDZ2-Smart-EBike-1 will be updated, while the TSDZ2-Smart-EBike-0 will go back private and will no longer be visible.

 

[mbrusa]

hey . quick question... how do I recognize if torq sensor shows 20 or 200 when pedal is not pressed on vlcd6 ? I'm not sure if I understand it right

Sometimes you ask questions that need to be interpreted.
Are you referring to this?

...
3 - Fixed the problem of displaying data with units in miles, the maximum value was limited to 62.4, now beyond this value there is a change in scale, from 62.4 to 6.3.
Example: with fully charged battery, 9.9 will be displayed instead of 99.9, at 6.3 it changes scale and becomes 62.4, to distinguish 9.9 = 99% from 9.9 = 9.9% look at the notches.
(this modification is to be tried).

The scale change is used only with the units setting in miles and with values greater than 62.4,therefore the data concerned are only the residual battery percentage and the motor temperature.

thank you sir . for faulty speed sensor - there is procedure to allow vlcd6 work with malfuctioning speed sensor but i cannot get it right ... can this be changed in FW file and uploaded to motor with java configurator ? because i see no such option in configurator ...
i have to do workaround for a while before new cable arrives, as i was unable to locate damaged wire in my cable, so every time i go somewhere my motor gives e05 after 5 10 or 15 km and its kinda frustrating ...

The speed sensor error is e08.
Are you sure the error displayed is e05?
What OSF version are you using?

 

[pxl666]

mbrusa you're right. my mistake, error is e08 indeed . after some tries I managed to activate bypassing errors ...thanks guys

 

[ornias]

@mbrosa could you explain how your firmware repo "0" and "1" are related?
maybe also add that to the description of those?
...

The TSDZ2-Smart-EBike-0 repository is the first one created.
It was pointed out to me that this was not a fork but a clone and therefore the link with the previous history was lost.
I then created a new TSDZ2-Smart-EBike-1 repository, which is the official one of the stock display versions.
TSDZ2-Smart-EBike-0 I then used it as a private repository for my tests. At the moment it is public only because I had to release a version that has never been tested, in this period I am unable to do so, so I prefer not to release it in the official repository.
When I have a positive feedback and I can try it myself, the TSDZ2-Smart-EBike-1 will be updated, while the TSDZ2-Smart-EBike-0 will go back private and will no longer be visible.

Thank you for the in depth response on the structure :-D
I'll be sure to document it while cleaning up all the docs out there ^^

Speaking of which, from a technical perspective...
Besides the design choices of Casainho to not-support the stock displays, is there any technical reason it needs to be seperate repositories and couldn't be, for example, sorted using CI or at build time? In my experience that's quite the "normal" way to deal with these issues...

The reason i'm asking is the fact that you definately have done some optimalisation and so did casahino, but by seperating the repositories, neither gain by the gains of the other project. Even though some should definately be portable.

 

[ornias]

@mbrusa

Taking the 860C display group, which was the last "normal" displays for casainho firmwares before moving to focus on the DIY OpenSource display.

Is there any significant difference in featureset between yours and said firmwares from Casainho?

 

[mbrusa]

...
Speaking of which, from a technical perspective...
Besides the design choices of Casainho to not-support the stock displays, is there any technical reason it needs to be seperate repositories and couldn't be, for example, sorted using CI or at build time? In my experience that's quite the "normal" way to deal with these issues...

The reason i'm asking is the fact that you definately have done some optimalisation and so did casahino, but by seperating the repositories, neither gain by the gains of the other project. Even though some should definately be portable.

I didn't understand if "separate repositories" you mean mine and Casainho's.
Making a new fork was a forced choice for me.
Casainho had not accepted Marcoq's proposal to add stock displays support to his project, a choice I understand.
So marcoq went his own way, when he decided to leave, I continued, doing a puzzle between his version and that of buba v0.20beta1, buba had added new features and had improved the structure of the program making it more understandable and easy to maintain, I never understood why Casainho didn't adopt it and continued with v0.19.
Later, I added the mspider65, 860C and LCD3 versions to the puzzle as well.
I preferred to make three repositories. For me only one is more complex and more difficult to maintain.

 

[mbrusa]

@mbrusa

Taking the 860C display group, which was the last "normal" displays for casainho firmwares before moving to focus on the DIY OpenSource display.

Is there any significant difference in featureset between yours and said firmwares from Casainho?

The differences are many, difficult to summarize.
However, in the changelog.txt file you will find the added features, starting from version v0.20beta1, concern both the controller and the display.
In the manual EN-860C_additional_manual-v20.1C.4.pdf you will find the menu items, modified or added to the casainho version, they are those that have a description, those highlighted in yellow are of the most recent version.

 

[pxl666]

Backup found.
Added the change to the latest version.
Here are the files to replace, I hope it works.
changes_v20.1C.2-update-1_for_5_levels_20220918.zip
The Tongsheng protocol provides 5 levels, only 4 are used in the stock displays, the fifth unused is between 0-OFF and 1-ECO.
Therefore the configurator levels from 1 to 4, on the display will be from 2 to 5. The assistance at level 1 on the display is 70% (configurable in main.h) of the ECO levels of the configurator.

Thank you! I set the value to 20%. Tomorrow my wife will ride this bike to work and by the evening there will be a test result.

ggggg.jpg

did you solder new plug or did you purchased with right plug for tsdz2 ? can you browse menu and change values like with sw102 or the only advantage is the better look over vlcd6? in short - will this display bring the advantages of sw102 without flashing the display itself or will this only bring 5 levels of assist ? or will it display more data additionally ? but still no option for easy changing values ?

 

[Lii]

I don't use the display menu for settings. The configuration is much more convenient to do using the configurator. The setting is done once. And then you just need to use the bike. That's why I'm for minimalism. In terms of functionality, the display is the same as VLCD6, but has a higher contrast display. There is an automatic backlight dimmer, which is very convenient in the dark. The size and profile of the mount on the handlebars look balanced. Still not too big, but well readable. The presence of an additional 5 level of support can't be considered an advantage. This number of levels is not required.

And the display also has very comfortable buttons with good tactile feedback (on the VLCD6, the buttons are terrible, which you need to press hard and not feel a click)

I didn't have the sw102 display so I can't compare.

https://enerprof.de/en/motor-kits/display-parts/tongsheng/1330/enerpower-dz41-display-uart-tongsheng-compatible-6-pins-150-cm-cable

The display has a 6 pin connector and is compatible with TSDZ2

 

[dameri]

If I drive, for example, with a power of 200 watts, the motor power suddenly drops to 10 watts for half a second and then returns to 200 watts. This keeps repeating every five seconds or so. So the driving is pretty jerky. What could be wrong. Is it a hardware problem or a software problem?

Usually, the TSDZ2 works perfectly normally in the morning, but when I turn off the power, for example, to go to the store and then continue driving, the problem appears.

I have this software version: v20.1C.4-860C-update-1 for 860C display

 

[mbrusa]

If it works well in the morning, it's hardly a software problem.
Check the "ADC torque delta" value in the Technical menu, if when there is no assistance the value goes to zero it could be a problem with the torque sensor.

 

[dameri]

Thanks mbrusa I'll check that. Then I disassemble the motor and try to find if something is wrong. I put to TSDZ2 motor secton too if somebody has had similar problem.

 

[Axi145]

Hi guys!

I'm trying to flash my TSDZ2 48V 750W motor and even after reading the manual, I would appreciate a little help on few things.

In TSDZ2 Parameter configurator I'm not sure which values should I use:
BASIC SETTINGS --> BATTERY SETTINGS
Batteries in my Hailong pack should be Samsung INR21700-50E 5000mAh
https://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Samsung%20INR21700-50E%205000mAh%20(Cyan)%20UK.html

Battery power max (W): which value should I input here?
Battery power capacity (Wh): 720 (15Ah*48V), is this correct?
Battery voltage cutoff (V): 33 (2.5V*13 cells), is this correct?

BASIC SETTINGS --> FUNCTION SETTINGS
Set parameters enabled on startup:which parameters are set if this is enabled Not really sure if I should enable/disable this...

ADVANCED SETTINGS --> BATTERY CELLS SETTINGS
Should I change anything here? Should I leave Field cell voltage empty 3.1V or should I use the value Discharge cut-off voltage: 2.5V and accordingly then calculate/correct all the values in between?

Is it possible to select deafult assist level
When you turn it on? Mine is by default on level 2/4 but I would like it do start with level 1/4

And final question When I compile & flash i can see and find .ini file in folder experimental settings. But for flashing the OSF i need hex files, which I cannot find anywhere? What am I missing here?
UPDATE: in the meantime I found out that it's flashed already when you click compile and flash.

 

[mbrusa]

Hi guys!

I'm trying to flash my TSDZ2 48V 750W motor and even after reading the manual, I would appreciate a little help on few things.

The manual should be read twice :wink:

In TSDZ2 Parameter configurator I'm not sure which values should I use:
BASIC SETTINGS --> BATTERY SETTINGS
Batteries in my Hailong pack should be Samsung INR21700-50E 5000mAh
https://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Samsung%20INR21700-50E%205000mAh%20(Cyan)%20UK.html

Battery power max (W): which value should I input here?
Battery power capacity (Wh): 720 (15Ah*48V), is this correct?
Battery voltage cutoff (V): 33 (2.5V*13 cells), is this correct?

"Battery power max" depends on the motor and the characteristics of the battery.
In your case you can get to 750W, but I wouldn't go beyond 650W.
Also consider that this power cannot be continuous, it would cause the motor to overheat.
Remember that this is the maximum power in offroad mode, in street mode the power limit is "Speed power limit (W)".

BASIC SETTINGS --> FUNCTION SETTINGS
Set parameters enabled on startup:which parameters are set if this is enabled Not really sure if I should enable/disable this...

You have to evaluate what you need.
I advise you to enable "Street mode", "Startup boost" and "Field weakening".
"Torque sensor adv" and "Calibrated", must be enabled only after having done the calibration. See procedure in the manual.

ADVANCED SETTINGS --> BATTERY CELLS SETTINGS
Should I change anything here? Should I leave Field cell voltage empty 3.1V or should I use the value Discharge cut-off voltage: 2.5V and accordingly then calculate/correct all the values in between?

"Cell voltage empty" leaves 3.1V.

Is it possible to select deafult assist level
When you turn it on? Mine is by default on level 2/4 but I would like it do start with level 1/4

It is not possible, the level at start-up is defined in the display.

And final question When I compile & flash i can see and find .ini file in folder experimental settings. But for flashing the OSF i need hex files, which I cannot find anywhere? What am I missing here?
UPDATE: in the meantime I found out that it's flashed already when you click compile and flash.

You already understood by yourself, continue like this.