Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

[Sattva Ram]

K. I cant do it now everything is taken apart. But soon I will send you.

 

[BareKuda]

The high brakes cuts the throttle so it works but no regen. Both low brake and high brake cut the throttle but no regen. Well maybe if I untick the low brake then hi brake will trigger regen...I'll try it out!

60 degrees is a different sequence. With 60 degrees it can be that all 3 sensors are on at the same time and all 3 sensors are off. Whereas with 120 degrees it cannot be.

I dont care about gears too much always maximum for me...I dont have switch for it anyway. But maybe I'll tinker with it who knows whether I'll sell this bike and people like slow mode cause of the cops..

When i was setting up my 3 gear switch, i could see it on my display, I could see it in the votol display page moving L,M, H but no change in speed. It was only after i clicked the DHC box that the gear selection worked.

With regen there also might be some unexplained connection between settings.

I know that 290 rpm you have will not allow your motor to run full speed with the right pole pairs. If you cange it to 2500 and check the DHC box i think that mid drive might wake up. But pole pairs need to be 5 not 17 or its going to freak out.

 

[Sattva Ram]

You mean HDC by DHC?


What should I set to 2500? The HDC?

 

[BareKuda]

You mean HDC by DHC?


What should I set to 2500? The HDC?

Yes. I would try these settings circled. By clearing out all the flux weakening you will see its not part of the problem and later you can go over base rpm and play with flux weakening.

 

[BareKuda]

You mean HDC by DHC?

After setting base settings, adjust sync up or down 50 (100-1200) until its smooth and quiet.

 

[BareKuda]

Regen problem..

Another difference is my wiring. I only have high brake (purple). No low break (grey/black). No Side Stand which can either use the low brake pin or brown (park). The brown wire can also be set for one button repair to clear faults if you have a button for that.

On the display page, with the controller connected to the software, you should see all these round circles showing the state of gears, brakes, side stand, regen. If you accelerate the motor and then hit the front brake you should see both Brake and Regen Circles checked each time you activate brake. If it doesnt then some configuration you have is blocking it.

 

[BareKuda]

60 degrees is a different sequence. With 60 degrees it can be that all 3 sensors are on at the same time and all 3 sensors are off. Whereas with 120 degrees it cannot be.

Ok, i found some diagram that show the firing order of the 60 and 120 and I can see now that no swapping of wires can change the signals to match what the 120 does. Only an encoder inside.

If a $24 controller (delivered) can self learn and auto detect 60/120, you would think these votol controllers can, essentially if their QS motors is making 60 degree motors.

 

[Sattva Ram]

Meeh it dont work at all. The only way to squeeze out a decent rpm is to set a ridiculously high pole pair. Also 60 degree hall angle is bad the rpm is wobbly. Actually it runs quite nicely at high PP and 120 degrees.

I think I am done with messing with it tho. It works well with the hub motor that's good enough for me. Maybe it's not even suitable for mid drive who knows...

 

[Sattva Ram]

BTW do you know anything about the cruise control? There's a cruise box but there is no wire for it. Do you know how to activate it?

 

[BareKuda]

Meeh it dont work at all. The only way to squeeze out a decent rpm is to set a ridiculously high pole pair. Also 60 degree hall angle is bad the rpm is wobbly. Actually it runs quite nicely at high PP and 120 degrees.

I think I am done with messing with it tho. It works well with the hub motor that's good enough for me. Maybe it's not even suitable for mid drive who knows...

Yes, just use 5 pole pairs but whatever hall shift angle works best. If 120 was best for 17 pole pairs it will also be good for 5 pole pairs. Dont set it to 60 or -60 if 120 is what that motor needs.

All 120 means is if you moved all the hall wires one hole left or right, you would then need 0 hall shift or -120/240 hall shift (same thing).

I hope the guy who said he will write a clear manual in English finally does it because it does get frustrating and confusing.

If you send the config file i can look at it inside my program.

 

[BareKuda]

BTW do you know anything about the cruise control? There's a cruise box but there is no wire for it. Do you know how to activate it?

I never tried cruise because with 3 speeds, 25-35-45 kph, i have full throttle cruise for 3 speed zones. Lol.

I don’t have any extra buttons and i don’t think i want something that auto sets a speed that i didn't ask for.

As I understand it, if you check the box and hold the the throttle steady for a few seconds, it will hold that speed until you interupt with brake or any motor cut signal.

 

[Sattva Ram]

Now I hooked up the hub motor. I have an 11 pole pair motor. It spins around 80 kmph at 72 volts no load at 11 pole pairs set. But if I set like 14 pole pairs it spins 100 kmph no load. And there isnt even drastic amp draw. It seems to me that by setting the pole pair you can reach basically any rpm. It's an insane controller no shitty budget controller can go way over the native rpm of the motor but this can do it and with a good efficiency at that. So it's the same phenomenon as with the mid motor increasing PP increases speed. For this price this controller is insanely good for a smaller bicycle or scooter.

I'm still struggling with the cruise. Maybe it doesnt support it. I waited 8 second at steady throttle but nothing...

 

[Sattva Ram]

What's your wheel size and motor KV? 45 kph seems too slow to me with this controller.

 

[BareKuda]

What's your wheel size and motor KV? 45 kph seems too slow to me with this controller.

My avatar picture is my ebike. Kuda Express. 500W motor, 60v20AH gel cell batteries. $600 delivered. Lol

The original controller was super basic. And when it got rolling it was super smooth and quiet. But the torque at zero was not enough to go over a speed bump from a stop. Also it didnt support YXT for my display. No regen. No programming my low voltage cutoffs.

I will swap the old controller back in and test for noise again because I’ve wrestling with the 1800 watt votol for so long i forgot what the original sounded like. And part of the problem with the original were cheap, old batteries.

If i can get this resonance at 100 rpm gone the votol will be great. After passing through that at 7-8 km/hr its so quiet you cant hear it over 15 km/hr wind.

With these bad batteries the votol doesnt have much torque from zero either.

I have 5x 12v25AH batteries on order but no matter what motor you use to go 100 kh/m, a battery with 1 kwh usable wont get you far at that speed. It really needs more battery, and bigger motor, and bigger controler, and bigger battery and bigger motor and bigger controller, and…lol

 

[Sattva Ram]

Yeah the battery is the problem. It would melt at higher speeds. You need lithium. I'll have 180 cell MJ1s for this bicycle build. I am looking for 70-75 kph top speed.

But if you had better batteries you could easily get 60 kph with the em30. I soo love this controller now. Kinda buggy and hard to setup but works very well for my motor. Smoothe quiet efficient...I'd love the cruise tho...

 

[BareKuda]

Yeah the battery is the problem. It would melt at higher speeds. You need lithium. I'll have 180 cell MJ1s for this bicycle build. I am looking for 70-75 kph top speed.

But if you had better batteries you could easily get 60 kph with the em30. I soo love this controller now. Kinda buggy and hard to setup but works very well for my motor. Smoothe quiet efficient...I'd love the cruise tho...

Unfortunately the jump to lithium is going to be a little expensive. And then i need a bigger motor. And the other problem is, once you get too fast and too mich power then no way it can pass as an electric bike, with no license or registration. I can easily make this faster but its not realy designed for that. Its really for making short distance deliveries.

I looked at lithium and to get one with a decent BMS and active balancing so that i can charge it to 80%, without the BMS being the one to stop it, so that i can use maximum regen. Then i need a different charger.

Lithium batteries are causing a lot of problem for votol users with regen because their bms blocks it, then the controler overvolts and the motor locks up.

With gel cells its not good to take them over 2.5v per cell but it can take it for a while without suddenly blocking regrn current.

 

[BareKuda]

I'm still struggling with the cruise. Maybe it doesnt support it. I waited 8 second at steady throttle but nothing...

I see in port settings a few different cruise choices. One is #15 Cruise Button. I assume you can use one of the unused ports such as low brake and assign it to a button for cruise. Then it works the way you would expect.

But so far i haven't seen anyone using that in port settings.

 

[Sattva Ram]

Yeah I gotta look out for that BMS thing...I read it in the manual. I'm thinkin of circumventing it somehow. I live on a hill so if I go down it's gonna be trouble especially that I only have slide regen. I roll off accidentally and there goes the controller. You should be able to set the regen working voltage in the program...Maybe I place a resistor somewhere parallel to the battery and switch it with a contactor or something...That's all I can think of now...Well maybe switching it with a FET...This is why I'd need the high brake to work. Slide regen is a big problem...it can easily activate regen when I dont want to...Anyway I can modify the charger too so it doesnt fully charge it. It's good to undercharge lithium anyway.

 

[Sattva Ram]

I'm still struggling with the cruise. Maybe it doesnt support it. I waited 8 second at steady throttle but nothing...

I see in port settings a few different cruise choices. One is #15 Cruise Button. I assume you can use one of the unused ports such as low brake and assign it to a button for cruise. Then it works the way you would expect.

But so far i haven't seen anyone using that in port settings.

Yes I read it somewhere in the forum too but no report of success. I dont wanna fiddle too much with the ports tho. Carrie said that it's easy to mess up the controller like that. Maybe I give it a shot tho...(well I'll have a half throttle if I dont put that plastic spacer into the throttle I can make it stuck with the handle grip so worst case is mechanical cruise...)

 

[BareKuda]

Yes I read it somewhere in the forum too but no report of success. I dont wanna fiddle too much with the ports tho. Carrie said that it's easy to mess up the controller like that. Maybe I give it a shot tho...(well I'll have a half throttle if I dont put that plastic spacer into the throttle I can make it stuck with the handle grip so worst case is mechanical cruise...)

I think the safe bet is to find a basic port that is pulled low, such as the wires/pins for low brake/park/Reverse/sport mode. Typically cruise is activate by a mommentary switch (button), and pulls the port to 0v like low brake.

I dont know how you have yours wired. I just know you have all possible ports acting as a brake. Lol.

But if you get get rid of all brakes except high brake, and turn your low brake to cruise and make sure nothing goes to side stand, except a side stand switch. It will profit work.

I dont have any extra buttons or wires running up front. As it was i had to run my own speed sognal wire because this scooter had no speed display. Probably for plausible deniability if you got caught going too fast. Lol

I can use one of my basic ports and just run a wire that i can touch to ground. Just so i know how to do it.

But i’m sure carrie is right, if you try to use a signal range on a port not compatible, such as sending high brake to the low brake pin, it would damage it.

 

[BareKuda]

Pole pairs..

The old manuals something can shed extra light, although some things are obsolete with the hardware/sorfware updates.

This clip from the 2018 manual state the obvious, that the only thing pole pairs does is tell the controller the RPM of the motor, and then it uses that data in several areas. So if you have 5 pole pairs and enter 15, the RPM indicated will be 3X, and that may cause the controller to activate timing maps for that speed, or limits.

It also gives basic starting points for flux weakening based in motor type, magnet mount, magnet height.

It also warns that setting it too high can demagnetize the magnets . So for my 500W motor pushing a lead sled i don't think i need flux weakening.

 

[Sattva Ram]

Pole pairs..

The old manuals something can shed extra light, although some things are obsolete with the hardware/sorfware updates.

This clip from the 2018 manual state the obvious, that the only thing pole pairs does is tell the controller the RPM of the motor, and then it uses that data in several areas. So if you have 5 pole pairs and enter 15, the RPM indicated will be 3X, and that may cause the controller to activate timing maps for that speed, or limits.

It also gives basic starting points for flux weakening based in motor type, magnet mount, magnet height.

It also warns that setting it too high can demagnetize the magnets . So for my 500W motor pushing a lead sled i don't think i need flux weakening.

No chance that it demagnetizes your motor. I entered the correct 11PP and it ran 80 kmph no load and 1.3 amp current draw. At 14PP it ran 100 kph and around 1.9 Amp. This is perfect given that the energy is increased by the square of the speed of the wheel. So there was no excessive current draw which means that it doesnt jeopardize the motor. If you tune the motor you gotta have temp sensor in it anyway so you dont cook it. It will never demag a hub motor. It's impossible because of the low rpm. If it kills the motor it will be burnt winding but surely not demag. However overspinning a mid motor can indeed demag it because of the eddy currents generated in the magnets due to high rpm plus the magnets cant cool because they are inside. I think you can give it some more speed like 50-55 kmph if the lead acids can take it.

 

[maincraft]

Hey!
What's settings must be here?
1) For maximum TORQUE POWER from ZERO RPM (VOTOL EM-150SP)
2) For normal DEFAULT TORQUE?
Cheers.

 

[deida789]

Hey!
What's settings must be here?
1) For maximum TORQUE POWER from ZERO RPM (VOTOL EM-150SP)
2) For normal DEFAULT TORQUE?
Cheers.

start torque 0
combinative 0
rate of rise i put the maximum 250
rate of decline i have no idea what it is , i let it to 80 untill i know

Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk

 

[BareKuda]

No chance that it demagnetizes your motor. I entered the correct 11PP and it ran 80 kmph no load and 1.3 amp current draw. At 14PP it ran 100 kph and around 1.9 Amp. This is perfect given that the energy is increased by the square of the speed of the wheel. So there was no excessive current draw which means that it doesnt jeopardize the motor. If you tune the motor you gotta have temp sensor in it anyway so you dont cook it. It will never demag a hub motor. It's impossible because of the low rpm. If it kills the motor it will be burnt winding but surely not demag. However overspinning a mid motor can indeed demag it because of the eddy currents generated in the magnets due to high rpm plus the magnets cant cool because they are inside. I think you can give it some more speed like 50-55 kmph if the lead acids can take it.

I dont know if its possible to demagnetize the magnets when you use excessive demagnetizing on them, but it makes sense and they promised did more testing than i did, lol

The pole pairs do NOTHING but tell the controller the ACTUAL RPM. That is all. Once it jas that data it uses it in a few places. But if you set your pole pair correct and then set everything else correct, it will work.

This video i increased HDC to 1200 ans FW from 0 to 1000.

[youtube]https://youtu.be/ZqwaU7Y4AzA[/youtube]