Bikeon, "cassette drive" torque sensing motor
- Thread starter adrian783
- Start date
raylo32
100 kW
I would now, too... except the phone thing. It would be perfect for my Lynskey gravel bike. Even then I might still try one if it were clear that there was a path to backfit a handlebar display in the future. But I suspect that might not happen until there is a V2 since it would need some sort of wire or connector to the controller that isn't present on V1.
@raylo32 I'm interested in user interfaces so I'm keen to know whether a super-small phone on the 'bars could work for you, like in #74.
Or maybe a phone in a pocket for BikeOn's app and 'bar mounted standalone bluetooth or Ant buttons? Someone here will know whether they can be connected into an app, similarly to how home automation apps do that (using wifi).
Or maybe a phone in a pocket for BikeOn's app and 'bar mounted standalone bluetooth or Ant buttons? Someone here will know whether they can be connected into an app, similarly to how home automation apps do that (using wifi).
raylo32
100 kW
I don't need all those things displayed at once whilst riding. Just assist level, speed and battery voltage. I guess I really don't even need speed on the e-bike display since I always will be running my Garmin... but that seems to be required for the higher 28 mph speed limit. The Eggrider/SW-102 handles all that just fine on my Photon. And the SW-102 has physical buttons to change assist levels, which IMO are essential. There are also several other e-bike displays like those for the Bafangs that might work, but IIRC most of them require a second pod unit for the physical assist level buttons. The ASI 500C may also be an option. It has more display space than the SW-102 and also has physical buttons. I don't know what it would take to port these displays over to BikeOn, or even if it is feasible.
Those little phones you linked might work, but IDK... hard to know if they are bright enough to be legible in sunlight and they don't have physical buttons to change assist levels. I'd have to know more about them and how the BikeOn app works to know if they would be a reasonable alternative, but my guess is they won't be suitable.
I believe BikeOn is trying to keep the installation super simple by just using a phone to control it without having to rout another wire to the handlebars for a display or control. But I am not a fan of this approach.
Those little phones you linked might work, but IDK... hard to know if they are bright enough to be legible in sunlight and they don't have physical buttons to change assist levels. I'd have to know more about them and how the BikeOn app works to know if they would be a reasonable alternative, but my guess is they won't be suitable.
I believe BikeOn is trying to keep the installation super simple by just using a phone to control it without having to rout another wire to the handlebars for a display or control. But I am not a fan of this approach.
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spaceman
10 W
We are attending a trade show in Denver, CO this weekend, come see us and test ride the device, if you are around.
e-revolution.bike
(e)revolution | a commitment to pedals
The e-bike revolution is here! And so is (e)revolution, the world’s first B2B2C exposition focused solely on pedal assist e-bikes.
e-revolution.bike
spaceman
10 W
Well, a cheap phone just for connecting with the device seems like a logical way to solve the issue, doesn't it?
Mongo
1 kW
Hi Aram - to me, honestly, no it doesn't. Strikes me as clumsy as hell, compared to bar controls operable year-round, bare-handed or while wearing thick gloves, etc. Along with a glanceable display readable in bright sunlight that doesn't require recharging.
Also as @raylo32 suggested, I'd investigate integration with the Garmin bike-specific Bluetooth navigation devices, possibly with Garmin's Connect IQ SDK.
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Yeah i'm unhappy with the phone thing too, not sure if i buy a cheap secondary phone, if it requires service or not.. also not sure what models of cheap phone would be acceptable. It might be a good idea to either resell some cheap phones as dedicated displays, or recommend some models to prospective users who have this concern.
I think that this point there's some standardization for third party displays interfacing with ebike controllers. Dealer cost on a display and throttle can be under $50/unit combined, so not a big cost to add to the product.
I think that this point there's some standardization for third party displays interfacing with ebike controllers. Dealer cost on a display and throttle can be under $50/unit combined, so not a big cost to add to the product.
We are attending a trade show in Denver, CO this weekend, come see us and test ride the device, if you are around.
(e)revolution | a commitment to pedals
The e-bike revolution is here! And so is (e)revolution, the world’s first B2B2C exposition focused solely on pedal assist e-bikes.
Let me know if you end up in Utah for any reason!
raylo32
100 kW
Well, no. I'd have to find some sort of mount for it... and how do I change assist levels whilst riding on a device that probably can't be read in sunlight and only has some awkward tiny soft buttons?
Phone mount options ranging from $5-$50:
bike phone mount - Google Shopping
AnthonyC recommended these models of phone, but we just need to know if phone service is required or not.
For me, i only have a business phone and no personal phone. I have crashed bikes enough to know that riding with the business phone is a bad idea. I would need a secondary phone as well for this purpose.
bike phone mount - Google Shopping
AnthonyC recommended these models of phone, but we just need to know if phone service is required or not.
For me, i only have a business phone and no personal phone. I have crashed bikes enough to know that riding with the business phone is a bad idea. I would need a secondary phone as well for this purpose.
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raylo32
100 kW
I have never seen a phone that didn't work as a BT or WiFi device without mobile service. But I suspect you are asking about the app. If it needs to "phone home" to BikeOn to fully function that would require service. Which would be another non-starter.
I can recommend the Sonim XP8. You can get it from eBay for $40-100, depending on which carrier its unlocked for, and it's rock solid. It's my main phone. There's clips out there of people dropping it from buildings, chucking it across a field, and freezing it in a bowl of water.
Gruesome
1 kW
I have my phone mounted on the bike anyways, so that doesn't bother me. Can this be used with a 48V (13s) external battery? Does one lose two or three gears?
spaceman
10 W
Yes, 48V battery is ok.
And yes, you lose 2-3 gears, depending on the cassette.
spaceman
10 W
Love it. We may add it as an option. Thanks!
rivers
1 W
So, what is the final answer to the question of whether phone service is needed to work with the Bikeon system?
spaceman
10 W
Phone service is not needed. The device connects with the phone via Bluetooth, and it doesn't matter if phone service is available or not.
Moreover, a phone connection is not needed either. Once you adjust your settings when you first get your device out of the box, you can ride without any phone connected to the device.
I hope this answers your question.
Gruesome
1 kW
I should know by now to never ask an 'or' question, as the answer will be 'yes'...
So, is it two gears or three gears, to be specific let's say on a Shimano 11 speed 105 cassette?
The drive has to sit closest to the wheel, correct? But could I swap cogs (gears) around in the cassette, to keep the three largest cogs (bolted together in the 105 cassette, the other gears are individual parts), and have the motor drive a smaller cog (25 teeth) moved to the innermost position (the cogs from inside out would be 25-21-17-34-x-x-) ?
If that's not possible (due to mechanical interference), could one duplicate the three largest cogs (and lose some intermediate ones, like 25-21-17; so the cog sequence would be 34-x-y-34-x-y-25-21-17-z-11?
Being able to add my own 48V battery makes this solution definitely a lot more attractive. Like, for a mountain ride, each 500 Wh battery gets a 100kg person & bike 1800m higher (just the lifting work).
And thanks for replying, and answering all these questions!
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tmho
1 kW
Hi Aram, I do not mind using the phone App. But it is best if the App can be run on the older iOS such as iOS 12.5.7 so that I can use it on my first iPhone 6, which I want to keep it forever.
Also, when you do the update and future development, please consider the following features/functions. I will sure buy one at the current price if it has all these.
1. The option of using throttle only.
2. Cruise control
Also, when you do the update and future development, please consider the following features/functions. I will sure buy one at the current price if it has all these.
1. The option of using throttle only.
2. Cruise control
raylo32
100 kW
Throttle only will be problematic. Even many much bigger motors can't handle that for long without overheating. This tiny thing will be no exception.
Gruesome
1 kW
The coupling to the frame seems pretty minimal.
spaceman
10 W
There is no way (at least yet) to keep using the largest cogs with this device. You still can use and shift the smaller ones though.
