Lectric XP suspension fork increase modification [ retitled ]

[MylarStar]

I started messing with this particular fork, the 20” Trama Cargo fork because it was the only fork I could find with a 110mm dropout width that was any better than the loathsome piece of junk Lectric uses on all of the XP bikes. The few others that exist are way overpriced and don’t have any more travel. No shock on the market is really built for a bike that weighs 70-80lbs either.

This one is far from perfect out of the box, it only has like 50mm of travel before it hits its stack bumpers, not the claimed 80mm; and it bangs loudly on full extension. But the legs and crown are really decent and will take a huge amount of abuse. I bent one by running straight into a square stone surveying marker and all the bend happened in the steerer tube and the crown and stanchions were totally unaffected.

As it turned out, because this fork has a weird upside down spring configuration; I figured out you can mod the thing to have 4” of travel without changing its normal insertion height; by making it right side up with a generic SR type replacement spring and a quill stem bolt and some rubber washers and a few other odds and ends.

These tend to come on slightly better budget e bikes like the Ride 1Up Portola, Fucare Bikes, probably the 20” Aventons…etc. I had been buying them from Ride 1Up who sell them super cheap but they are out of stock and it will be months before they have them back in. Maybe they are waiting out the tariffs.

So I started buying them direct from China which has the advantage of getting them with uncut steerer tubes long enough for a freak head tube length like a Fucare has or to keep long on a bike like a Lectric to do a BMX conversion of normal bike spec height without the sketch factor of a folding stem adapter (I also have a bunch of good ones of those I found).

Anyway if anyone already has one of these and wants more specifics on how to rebuild it I’ll be happy to share the parts list; if anyone else wants a much better shock than anyone makes for an e bike and can use the 110mm dropout width I ordered 10 more of them to rebuild and list on eBay. They are coming ocean/air so it’ll be a while but I’ll be able to keep the price down to not exceed $100 by saving on shipping.
View attachment 373770
View attachment 373771
View attachment 373772
View attachment 373773

-----------------------------------------------------------

Moderator's note: this user got frustrated with his experience on ES and decided to delete all his content and request his account be deleted. I have restored the content so we can retain this as an example of how a thread shouldn't go. In the process, the software lost the first page's images.

 

[Chalo]

Almost doubling the travel without lengthening the stanchions at all seems like a good way to knacker the bushings, or worse.

My favorite thing to do with unsatisfactory suspension forks is delete them and replace with rigid forks. Maintenance, reliability, and lifespan all improve immeasurably.

Pardon Our Interruption...

 

[MylarStar]

Almost doubling the travel without lengthening the stanchions at all seems like a good way to knacker the bushings, or worse.

My favorite thing to do with unsatisfactory suspension forks is delete them and replace with rigid forks. Maintenance, reliability, and lifespan all improve immeasurably.

Pardon Our Interruption...

I said I did not decrease the insertion at all to increase the travel; which you can see from the picture of two of the same forks standing next to each other with pink zip tie witness lines on them showing the unmodified fork on the left with 50mm of travel and the modified fork on the right that can sink all the way to the limit of the crown before the spring reaches solid height. There is a stack bumper in the spring to prevent that from happening.

Almost doubling the travel without lengthening the stanchions at all seems like a good way to knacker the bushings, or worse.

My favorite thing to do with unsatisfactory suspension forks is delete them and replace with rigid forks. Maintenance, reliability, and lifespan all improve immeasurably.

Pardon Our Interruption...

 

[Hillhater]

My favorite thing to do with unsatisfactory suspension forks is delete them and replace with rigid forks. Maintenance, reliability, and lifespan all improve immeasurably.

….maybe you dont notice that completely eliminates the primary function of a suspension fork ?
..its like saying the best way to fix uncomfortable shoes , is to never wear any shoes at all !

 

[Chalo]

….maybe you dont notice that completely eliminates the primary function of a suspension fork ?
..its like saying the best way to fix uncomfortable shoes , is to never wear any shoes at all !

Those are all fat tire forks. If you're using fat tires, you already have quite a bit of effective and tunable suspension.

 

[neptronix]

Yeah, using your tire as a suspension can have a pretty big watt penalty though. ( moreso on the rear )
If you have a suspension fork already, might as well use it to the maximum extent you can and keep those tires pumped up to whatever slovenly PSI they recommend as the max.

 

[MylarStar]

Those are all fat tire forks. If you're using fat tires, you already have quite a bit of effective and tunable suspension.

Dude, this is an awesome discovery that was a lot of luck and a little skill (I have a lot of skills and have done a few things in the last 32 years since I was a 20 year old bike mechanic). It’s great news for anyone with a $1000 “adventure bike” with shit suspension.

I don’t why there’s always some naysaying jack ass that has to shit all over everything no matter what it is but you’re way out of your depth here with one wrong assumption after another. I don’t know on what basis you’re so arrogant you can not read or comprehend a word I said and assume I failed so completely my next best option is no suspension. Jesus Christ.

It’s not a fat tire fork which you should know immediately from me saying it’s 110mm. Fat tire forks are 135mm and I think fat tires are f-ing stupid and should have gone away 10 years ago like they did in the regular bike world. It’s a cargo fork for a three inch tire and a rigid fork is not an option for this kind of riding where I am using that very fork. I already messed with it and tested it for months, it’s awesome, deal with it, it’s way too late for you to summarily reject it with an appeal to your own expertise, full of factual errors.

 

[Chalo]

It’s great news for anyone with a $1000 “adventure bike” with shit suspension.

I think you meant to say, "shit bike with 'adventure' suspension".

It’s not a fat tire fork which you should know immediately from me saying it’s 110mm. Fat tire forks are 135mm

Well you furnished a photo with a 20 x 3" tire and plenty of room around it. It's tire clearance, not hub spacing, that dictates whether you can use fat tires. And a 3" tire amounts to plenty of suspension-- more than the stock travel on that fork, more progressive, and very easy to change spring rate.

and I think fat tires are f-ing stupid and should have gone away 10 years ago like they did in the regular bike world.

Agreed. 20 inch wheels too, except for corner cases. The rest of a Lectric XP is every bit as stupid as the rest of those not-really-bikes for people who avoid real bikes, even if the tires are less awful.

 

[MylarStar]

I think you meant to say, "shit bike with 'adventure' suspension".



Well you furnished a photo with a 20 x 3" tire and plenty of room around it. It's tire clearance, not hub spacing, that dictates whether you can use fat tires. And a 3" tire amounts to plenty of suspension-- more than the stock travel on that fork, more progressive, and very easy to change spring rate.



Agreed. 20 inch wheels too, except for corner cases. The rest of a Lectric XP is every bit as stupid as the rest of those not-really-bikes for people who avoid real bikes, even if the tires are less awful.

Get out of here. What an ass clown and d-bag bike snob. I’m not avoiding anything. I’m doing exactly what I want to do with purpose and determination and having great success, and if I wasn’t I would keep trying until I did; not wuss out and go back to a rigid fork. If this isn’t your bag then ignore it or keep your mouth shut, you obviously have no idea what you’re talking about in the realm of things that concern me if a 3” tire is enough suspension for whatever pussy shit you’re doing on your stupid snob approved bike, whatever it is. I couldn’t care less so go f#ck off dickwad

EDIT: wrong again dumbass

 

[scianiac]

Cool mod, amazing how many cheap bike parts seem to be just assembled with parts that resemble their intended purpose but don't actually work but sometimes can be made to work if you know how they are supposed to work.

Also I see that dual hub motor rear wheel drive? Seen hub as mid type conversions but never seen a setup like that, cool way to use these super common hubs and get some more power without all the weird front motor problems.

You got to just ignore Chalo about half the time (or all the time if you want), he's so set in his opinions they might as well be concrete, some are good advice some are nonsense and you can figure out which is which if you want but there is no point in trying to convince him of anything. It's not worth your time to argue with him.

 

[MylarStar]

Cool mod, amazing how many cheap bike parts seem to be just assembled with parts that resemble their intended purpose but don't actually work but sometimes can be made to work if you know how they are supposed to work.

Also I see that dual hub motor rear wheel drive? Seen hub as mid type conversions but never seen a setup like that, cool way to use these super common hubs and get some more power without all the weird front motor problems.

You got to just ignore Chalo about half the time (or all the time if you want), he's so set in his opinions they might as well be concrete, some are good advice some are nonsense and you can figure out which is which if you want but there is no point in trying to convince him of anything. It's not worth your time to argue with him.

It’d be great if people that fundamentally reject modding cheap 20” bikes would stay the f#ck away from me because that’s what I’m into and it’s a very class conscious mission I’m on. I’m so sick of hearing shit from people that think there’s wisdom built right into the amount of money they can waste on things, like everyone that can only afford a cheap bike has a character flaw or has made a big mistake they need pointed out to them.


I’m messing with that other little 500w motor with the idea of sticking in the lower front triangle of my Scorpio and running it to a separate sprocket on the rear hub so it’s like 10:1 gear reduction. I would have to cut the frame to get something bigger in there, at least out of the stuff I have around. I could probably get a more compact 750w and maybe be able to do away with the rear motor altogether, I don’t really need major top speed with the way the trails are where I am.

I feel like it was really lucky to figure that out about that fork. The whole upper tube is totally empty and it costs less than $20 to get a spring and a quill bolt and a bunch of junk from Amazon. Every fork on the market is kind of cheesy and often only has half the travel they claim. I ran straight into an immovable rock with one of those and bent it, but it turned out it only bent the steerer tube and had no effect whatsoever on the stanchions, crown, or bushings. So they sent me a free steerer tube with the last forks I ordered. It’s in the freezer right now to hopefully shrink it enough to press at home.

The only critical trick to it is sticking a metal capped expanding bar end in the bottom of the spring because the head of the quill bolt will blow right through the standard nylon seat bushing those SR type replacement springs come with.

 

[neptronix]

Wow, chalo just got off a ban for a streak of bad behavior and here he is again being a jerk right again.
Sorry i'm going to cut your argument with this him short but this is just adding unnecessary noise to an otherwise useful thread. Tired of it.

 

[lnanek]

I think most people would consider the Lectric XP to be a fat tire bike, even if it's technically 3" tires and not 3.7". Searching "is the Lectric XP a fat tire bike" online seems to agree.

Kind of weird to freak out over the label. Fat tires are popular in low cost bikes because they are a cheap, effective form of suspension, so again, kind of does you a disservice to fight against it if your aim is an effective low cost solution.

Larger diameter wheels are also a very effective way to a nicer ride. The larger diameter lets them roll over bumps easier, and the larger sizes are way more common at the bicycle charity I shop at. There's usually 50 700c bikes donated, maybe 10 27.5", a couple 26", and maybe one weird folding bike with 20" or 16" any given week.

I don't think you are really saving yourself any money by sticking to 20". It's really only used in cases where you want to fold the bike up and stick it in the back of a car or something. Or to get more torque for a motorcycle or dirt bike or something, but I don't consider those bicycles. If you do need a hot rod to kill yourself with, OK, or you do need a folding bike to fit in a trunk, fine - but it's strange to act like using a tiny wheel isn't sacrificing ride quality. Cargo bikes similarly have reasons for being low to the ground that don't apply to most users.

 

[neptronix]

It’d be great if people that fundamentally reject modding cheap 20” bikes would stay the f#ck away from me because that’s what I’m into and it’s a very class conscious mission I’m on. I’m so sick of hearing shit from people that think there’s wisdom built right into the amount of money they can waste on things, like everyone that can only afford a cheap bike has a character flaw or has made a big mistake they need pointed out to them.

I'm also tired of seeing people come here only to get crapped on, especially by a particular person.
That sure ain't the spirit that made this website popular. It's more of what you expect on reddit.

You kinda escalated it though

Can we hit the reset button on this?

 

[lnanek]

Personally, I use a 20" 135mm fork off an Ariel Rider X-Class frame someone sold for cheap because they destroyed the drop outs by running it without torque arms. First thing I did, though, was put a 26" rear Bionx hub motor I got for free in there, though.

 

[MylarStar]

I'm also tired of seeing people come here only to get crapped on, especially by a particular person.
That sure ain't the spirit that made this website popular. It's more of what you expect on reddit.

You kinda escalated it though

Can we hit the reset button on this?

Are you saying I escalated it? I try to choose my battles but the way the guy kept trying to pull “gotcha” BS on me with one factually incorrect assertion after another until we’re not even talking about the topic (the already proven viability of the fork), but rather in typical form of the failing would be forum bully he’s got to then try and delegitimize the whole premise since he can’t score a win within it. Like dude, I already did it; I’m not going back in time and undoing what I already succeeded at.

It’s definitely way too normal on Reddit and Facebook for people to pull that kind of antagonistic shit to make a first impression. I don’t get it. I don’t go on other people’s posts and say shit about anything unless I have a question or a relevant answer to a question asked.

Thank God Chalo isn’t alive (to me) to see how I sold two of those in like ten minutes on eBay. I’ve got to find a source for ball bearing crown races. Lectric is still using them but no one sells them separately. It’s kind of funny how the most popular bike in the US (their words) has the most hated fork in the US, for three consecutive models. I might need a lot of those crown races.

 

[hillslayer@]

29 inch 160 mm forks or go home.

 

[lnanek]

I like Chalo's input, personally. I don't think he's trying to win points, just give his opinions and advice. I don't expect someone to give useful opinions about approaches they don't use themselves - that's not useful since they have no expertise there. So, of course, if you do something he wouldn't, you aren't going to get much more than alternatives and what seems like bashing - which helps one reason out potential flaws even if you stay the course.

I do think it's weird to freak out over someone calling a 3" tire fat too just because the fork is 110mm. He even said it's not quite as bad as other fat tire forks, so it's not even like he said it was completely one anyway. Reacting like that didn't actually tell anyone in the thread anything we didn't already know about the forks in question.

Just because he calls how I degrease chains with mineral spirits a toxic bath, for example doesn't mean I have to change my strategy, but it does make me aware it is kind of a non-green approach and that there are other options. Might push me to filter and reuse more too, which can save waste. Have to pickup some coffee filters or let the crap settle and drain out the useful part. Normally I don't bother and don't give a rat's ass and just buy more.

It's rare to have someone like him who has worked on pedicabs with huge wheels before and the like, so Chalo input is often something you aren't going to get in an echo chamber of yes men only agreeing with each other and only having the same experiences.

I've only used cable brakes and cable actuated hydraulics before, for example, but him calling the later the worst of both worlds has convinced me to go full hydraulic for my next build. I have to bleed the cable actuated ones occasionally anyway, so I do feel like it revealed that I'm paying all the costs of hydraulic without getting the full benefit. I'm looking forward to tossing out my compressionless brake cable housings and polished cables and Shimano cable grease in favor of full hydraulic runs next time. Even planning fun things I can do with the hose routing now that bends don't add friction and I have one adjustable stem without a star nut in the way due to it preloading the bearings with an expandable collar instead.

You can take comments like that and improve your practice where applicable and ignore the rest, you know. You don't have to make fake straw man factual arguments about who is precisely right in a literal way or not or fight over if you think something will sell or not. No one gives a damn about that anyway. At work we optimize on good user outcomes from organizing information and exposing it correctly and at the right time. We don't optimize on clicks nor sales. So fighting the information exchange just to make a product look perfect without any trade offs to push more sales is kind of counterproductive to good personal outcomes.

 

[neptronix]

Are you saying I escalated it? I try to choose my battles but the way the guy kept trying to pull “gotcha” BS on me with one factually incorrect assertion after another until we’re not even talking about the topic (the already proven viability of the fork), but rather in typical form of the failing would be forum bully he’s got to then try and delegitimize the whole premise since he can’t score a win within it. Like dude, I already did it; I’m not going back in time and undoing what I already succeeded at.

I think you escalated, but you did it from the defensive and not offensive POV. So i won't blow the whistle and call it foul play, just wanted to let you know how we see it.

I am equally irritated by Chalo's approach and feel like he seems himself as an unofficial unwelcoming committee for the forum.

It’s definitely way too normal on Reddit and Facebook for people to pull that kind of antagonistic shit to make a first impression. I don’t get it. I don’t go on other people’s posts and say shit about anything unless I have a question or a relevant answer to a question asked.

Thank God Chalo isn’t alive (to me) to see how I sold two of those in like ten minutes on eBay. I’ve got to find a source for ball bearing crown races. Lectric is still using them but no one sells them separately. It’s kind of funny how the most popular bike in the US (their words) has the most hated fork in the US, for three consecutive models. I might need a lot of those crown races.

I'm also an unconventional bike enjoyer and i've been on the receiving end of Chalo's 'stop liking what i don't like' energy many times and i think it's a very poor cultural fit for a website that embraces all forms of electrified transportation.

Anyway, keep on keepin' on

 

[MylarStar]

I like Chalo's input, personally. I don't think he's trying to win points, just give his opinions and advice. I don't expect someone to give useful opinions about approaches they don't use themselves - that's not useful since they have no expertise there. So, of course, if you do something he wouldn't, you aren't going to get much more than alternatives and what seems like bashing - which helps one reason out potential flaws even if you stay the course.

I do think it's weird to freak out over someone calling a 3" tire fat too just because the fork is 110mm. He even said it's not quite as bad as other fat tire forks, so it's not even like he said it was completely one anyway. Reacting like that didn't actually tell anyone in the thread anything we didn't already know about the forks in question.

Just because he calls how I degrease chains with mineral spirits a toxic bath, for example doesn't mean I have to change my strategy, but it does make me aware it is kind of a non-green approach and that there are other options. Might push me to filter and reuse more too, which can save waste. Have to pickup some coffee filters or let the crap settle and drain out the useful part. Normally I don't bother and don't give a rat's ass and just buy more.

It's rare to have someone like him who has worked on pedicabs with huge wheels before and the like, so Chalo input is often something you aren't going to get in an echo chamber of yes men only agreeing with each other and only having the same experiences.

I've only used cable brakes and cable actuated hydraulics before, for example, but him calling the later the worst of both worlds has convinced me to go full hydraulic for my next build. I have to bleed the cable actuated ones occasionally anyway, so I do feel like it revealed that I'm paying all the costs of hydraulic without getting the full benefit. I'm looking forward to tossing out my compressionless brake cable housings and polished cables and Shimano cable grease in favor of full hydraulic runs next time. Even planning fun things I can do with the hose routing now that bends don't add friction and I have one adjustable stem without a star nut in the way due to it preloading the bearings with an expandable collar instead.

You can take comments like that and improve your practice where applicable and ignore the rest, you know. You don't have to make fake straw man factual arguments about who is precisely right in a literal way or not or fight over if you think something will sell or not. No one gives a damn about that anyway. At work we optimize on good user outcomes from organizing information and exposing it correctly and at the right time. We don't optimize on clicks nor sales. So fighting the information exchange just to make a product look perfect without any trade offs to push more sales is kind of counterproductive to good personal outcomes.

Everything he said was factually incorrect and delivered as if he were remedying a mistake I never made from the get go. He’s going to lead in with the advice with “give up and use a rigid fork?” after the fact of me having already done the deed to success that’s more than sufficient for a budget e bike?
He obviously didn’t read a thing I clearly laid out that left nothing to the imagination before he felt compelled to weigh in like some sort of admonishing patriarch of the community. I’m not bursting with excess pride over having figured out a neat and opportune trick but I don’t need that kind of presumption and disrespect from someone who couldn’t seem to drive home anything with certainty but that he’s functionally illiterate, you know?

 

[2old]

I appreciate Chalo's input too, and this forum has lost a lot of good content because it doesn't accept adverse opinions (almost like free speech isn't welcome unless it agrees with a prevailing opinion). I guess the response, if any, will be that he was not courteous; I disagree in advance.

 

[MylarStar]

I think you escalated, but you did it from the defensive and not offensive POV. So i won't blow the whistle and call it foul play, just wanted to let you know how we see it.

I am equally irritated by Chalo's approach and feel like he seems himself as an unofficial unwelcoming committee for the forum.



I'm also an unconventional bike enjoyer and i've been on the receiving end of Chalo's 'stop liking what i don't like' energy many times and i think it's a very poor cultural fit for a website that embraces all forms of electrified transportation.

Anyway, keep on keepin' on

Wow cool. I’ve only ever seen one of those once before and it was a YouTube video of some Redbull MTB type guy taking one down a crazy ridgeline type trail.

 

[MylarStar]

I appreciate Chalo's input too, and this forum has lost a lot of good content because it doesn't accept adverse opinions (almost like free speech isn't welcome unless it agrees with a prevailing opinion). I guess the response, if any, will be that he was not courteous; I disagree in advance.

There are broad and diverse opinions and then there’s passive aggressive antagonism to establish dominance by a ridiculous pretext. I posted an announcement, not a thesis to defend. I wasn’t looking for a peer review of something so simple it needed no further elaboration but I’ll take the constructive criticism of anyone that addresses me as a peer. Someone who’s so eager to talk down to me as an authority that they assume I’m the kind of idiot that would pull a fork 2” out of its leg assembly to double its travel and then post it on a forum as “awesome” has a core inclination to be a douche that in spirit supercedes the content of whatever they’re saying as far as I’m concerned. In any event, this isn’t like an ongoing thing in my mind. He’s all yours.

 

[hillslayer@]

I think you escalated, but you did it from the defensive and not offensive POV. So i won't blow the whistle and call it foul play, just wanted to let you know how we see it.

I am equally irritated by Chalo's approach and feel like he seems himself as an unofficial unwelcoming committee for the forum.



I'm also an unconventional bike enjoyer and i've been on the receiving end of Chalo's 'stop liking what i don't like' energy many times and i think it's a very poor cultural fit for a website that embraces all forms of electrified transportation.

Anyway, keep on keepin' on

A Bbso2 and 1500 watt DD hub on that would be sweet.

 

[neptronix]

A Bbso2 and 1500 watt DD hub on that would be sweet.

We both have ~21" equiv. wheels and there's an opportunity to stretch a DD hub well past it's continuous rating if we volt up, gear down.

Here's a simulation of OP's bike:



Same power, but on a bike with a big aerodynamic advantage:



You might say.. what about hill climbing on OP's bike?
Well, we're pushing it.. even with statorade added



OP is in Rhode island? if so.. there may be no 7% grades in the entire state.. so this scenario is totally doable... we may not even need the statorade.

Would i ride a short wheelbased, folding upright that fast? no way in hell.. i do not trust the chassis to handle that.
But yeah, we don't really need two motors unless the vehicle's task is to win at the dragstrip.