Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

[Cowardlyduck]

I took my Fighter with Adaptto Mini-E for a good thrashing yesterday. We've had plenty of rain lately, so it was very VERY muddy, but I had a blast and covered over 20km of super steep, sticky deep mud in under 50min.
Pulling 7.8KW sure is fun on a 30KG bike.

When I got home I was stuffing around in the backyard when I stalled the bike at full WOT for way longer than I should have...result: One fried Adaptto Mini-E

After cleaning:

The blown FET blew a hole clean through the PCB!

When I opened it, I found blobs of melted solder, and if you look closely, you can see melted traces.

Anyway, I'm hoping I can just order a replacement power board from Adaptto for less than the cost of a whole new Mini-E. It works fine at up to 100A, as long as it's well cooled and the wheel is moving. Maybe I'll drop the power level a bit the second time round though...6.5KW is still plenty enough to scare me.

Cheers

 

[Offroader]

How did you manage to do that in your back yard?

 

[brumbrum]

10 out of 10 for effort CD! I am impressed.

 

[Cowardlyduck]

How did you manage to do that in your back yard?

Well, I was trying to hit 8KW...stalling is not the correct way

Anyway, I learned 2 things;
1 - You can push a Mini-E up to 7.5KW if you cool it well.
2 - You can't stall a Mini-E if you exceed it's design limits.

I asked Oleg, but they won't sell me just the PCB gut's of a Mini-E. I have to buy a whole new controller.

Now I'm tossing up ditching Adaptto all together as it is just too expensive. If I bother to replace my Mini-E, I will also get a Midi-E at the same time for my Flux Alpha build. All up that will be well over $1000USD + shipping.
On the other hand, it's now possible to get a nice programmable 'Infineon' like Sinewave controller that links to a CA for $200:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=75888
It might not be as 'advanced' as the Adaptto's, but it is silent, programmable and links to a CA...that's enough for me really.

Still not sure which way I'll go, just mulling it over.

Cheers

 

[Altair]

OR, you can try to repair the mini-E.
I've repaired a board that had blown, some time ago, by unsoldering the affected components, cleaning the pcb, re-doing traces, and replacing with new components.
It's not as labor-intensive as it looks.
The thing you have to watch for is that there is sometimes, a metallized deposit left on the board when a Mosfet blows, and this is conductive. So it must be removed completely. You can use an eraser for ink (the grey ones) to buff the board. Vim also works well, with a toothbrush. Rinse with water. Blow compressed air around & under all components on the board.
Have fun!

 

[Cowardlyduck]

OR, you can try to repair the mini-E....

Yeah, not likely, did you see the hole it blew in the PCB!
I also think it did more damage that is obvious. Look closely at the pics above and you will see it burned some of the legs from one of the boards connected at 90 degrees.
It also feels like there's a hole in one of the caps now.
And when it happened, it didn't just pop once and stop. It kept crackling and smoking more and more until I ripped out the main power wires.

Pretty sure I thoroughly toasted it.

Cheers

 

[ridethelightning]

its worth a shot to repair it, even if it just gives you more idea of how the thing works.

if the components on the main board are completely fried, as long as they can be repaced, and traces repaired, there is a good chance it will be good as new. the crucial thing is that the "brain board" with the microprocessors was not directly hit...


i went to some lengths to repair one i toasted when i did autodetect with the charge coil plugged in.

one fet was completely fried with one leg missing. the traces were damaged and after i removed all the daughter boards(gate drivers) and caps etc. the pcb was clearly in a serious sate with some traces vapourised. i have to admit i sort of gave up...praps one day ill try to rebuild the traces.

 

[Cowardlyduck]

What you say is true RTL, but not applicable to me currently. I simply have too many projects going currently to spend the time to fix it right now.

At the very least, I will have some spare parts for the replacement Mini-E if I order.

Cheers

 

[DasDouble]

How did you manage to do that in your back yard?

10/10 Points for that comment hahahahahaha made my day.

 

[teslanv]

Anyway updated firmware to latest via adaptto website and the fault has cleared. But now my domino throttle gives either nothing or everything. It won't go through auto detect or throttle calibrations. It worked perfectly before. So long story short where can I get a access to older firmware to try back track a little?

Same story with my Midi-E.

I was having problems with the controller going into charge mode randomly, and so I updated the firmware to the May 31, 2016 version.

Still having issues with random charge mode, and now the added issue with the Domino throttle. Like Craigh85 says, it's all or nothing. I even tried re-mapping the throttle limits without any improvement to the issue.

Also when I press and release my ebrake levers (Non-HE Set-up, just a Normally Open ebrake Switch), the display will often stick on the brake and prevent the throttle from reengaging the motor.

Spoke to Oleg at adaptto. He sent me an earlier firmware version to try. He also mentioned putting a 100 ohm resistor between throttle 5v and ground, it has fixed the issue for others. I'm working away from home just now and unable to try yet. It's mentioned in the stealth owners thread if you have a quick search. Let me know if you find the solution.

Craig

OK... So I added a 100-ohm resistor (1/2-watt) between the throttle +5V and ground. Now I have a little bit of throttle voltage progression, but I only get about 1/8 of a turn on the throttle before it maxes out. And mapping the throttle voltage in the Calibration set-up doesn't correct for this. It's like the throttle is sending a +5V Signal as soon as I reach 1/8 of the throttle twist. Should I try with a 200-ohm resistor? 300-Ohm?

Update: Changing to a 500-Ohm 1/2-watt resistor did the trick, I think.

 

[Allex]

How did you manage to do that in your back yard?

Well, I was trying to hit 8KW...stalling is not the correct way

Anyway, I learned 2 things;
1 - You can push a Mini-E up to 7.5KW if you cool it well.
2 - You can't stall a Mini-E if you exceed it's design limits.

I asked Oleg, but they won't sell me just the PCB gut's of a Mini-E. I have to buy a whole new controller.
Cheers

Or you could save the money from the beginning and go with a max/midi instead of molesting that poor mini with 7kW! But you probably knew that it would blow sooner or later? It does not matter how well you cool it, the silicone have its limitations anyway.
I was warning you about your choice of the controller for you needs but you took the chance anyway.

 

[Cowardlyduck]

Or you could save the money from the beginning and go with a max/midi instead of molesting that poor mini with 7kW! But you probably knew that it would blow sooner or later? It does not matter how well you cool it, the silicone have its limitations anyway.
I was warning you about your choice of the controller for you needs but you took the chance anyway.

Some of us have to learn the hard way.

Anyway, I wouldn't say I didn't heed those warnings. And I wouldn't say the controller can't take this kind of power either.

As I said above, you just can't stall it at those kind of power levels. That's why mine blew really.

If anything, it should be possible to push a Mini-E beyond even 8KW peak, but I won't be doing that.

A new Mini-E is going to be ordered, and I will tone down the power levels to something more reasonable. 8KW is fun for sure, but I don't need that and prefer long distance, mid power riding anyway. Maybe 6KW will be my new limit.

Cheers

 

[teslanv]

Still having issues with the Domino Throttle. :?

With the 500 Ohm resistor wired into the throttle +5V and Ground, I get reasonable throttle modulation, but when I road tested it this afternoon, It will occasionally cut-out. It's jerky, and doesn't last for more than a half-second. Does this in all three power modes, generally only at WOT.

 

[Allex]

Tesla,
Did you try to flash new firmware? Make sure to domsystem reser after it.
Ducky, omg, you blow one and want to use same tech to overdrive it again, I feel sorry for your wallet :wink:
You still have the display working right, PM me and maybe I can do some magic for you because you really need some FET margins here!

 

[Merlin]

Still having issues with the Domino Throttle. :?

With the 500 Ohm resistor wired into the throttle +5V and Ground, I get reasonable throttle modulation, but when I road tested it this afternoon, It will occasionally cut-out. It's jerky, and doesn't last for more than a half-second. Does this in all three power modes, generally only at WOT.

Barent, did you have a 2nd throttle attached for variable ebrake?
if not, please give it a try. detach all resistors from the domino and just "install" a china throttle for ebrake.

the 5v is shared to both throttles and it looks like the ebrake "throttle" attached helps the adaptto to "accept" the domino without any issue.

 

[Craigh85]

Still having issues with the Domino Throttle. :?

With the 500 Ohm resistor wired into the throttle +5V and Ground, I get reasonable throttle modulation, but when I road tested it this afternoon, It will occasionally cut-out. It's jerky, and doesn't last for more than a half-second. Does this in all three power modes, generally only at WOT

My domino throttle problem also does the jerking/cutting out at wot. I'm still convinced it software related because before I was forced to update because of the display issue the throttle worked perfect. Can you get the throttle to go through an auto detect? Mine wouldn't. I have a copy of an earlier firmware I could send you if you want to try that? I'm still away from home so not been able to try.

Craig

 

[Altair]

Re: throttle, Usually a Hall-effect throttle will produce a voltage varying between 0.8 and 4.2 volts.
With the Domino which is resistive if i'm not mistaken, it would be good to add resistors between the top & +, and between the bottom & - supplies. In this way, the produced voltage will not reach a too high voltage on the + side, or a too low voltage on the - side. This could be the problem if the controller cannot accept input voltages that are close to the limits of the supply.

If you want to try that route, I can calculate the required values for the resistors, but I will need to know the value of the throttle itself.

 

[Montage.pl]

Hello guys. I do not have time and brain power to read all that thread to find what I need so please be so kind and give me simple answers for few questions.

1 - What is most efficient cell pack for 14kW Adaptto controller? Money is not a subject. I am interested in getting the highest power I can get from newest Adaptto 14kW controller. Alex told me I should go with 20S or 22S and at least 16P but even 22S will give me nominal 81,4 V (22 x 3,7V nominal) when this controller can (unofficially) handle up to 110V so should it not be more like 26s with would give me nominal 96V (fresh charged cells should give more like 108V)??? My way of thinking is this: I want to build something that gives me more than nominal 92V that Adaptto officially operates. I know that Adaptto simple cuts off everything above 92V and can handle to something around 110V (unofficially) and we all know, that in time of discharging cell, V is getting lower and lower so the power of bike is dropping. I was thinking to go with something like 96,2V nominal (3,7 nominal cell V) so even when cell pack is 50% empty controller will still operate around 92V not 80V or less so I will not see difference in power when having 100% charged cells or 50% because all the time actual V will be 92V only when cumming to something like 20%-10% of power, V will drop to something like 86V so almost to the end of the power controller works around 92V - do you catch my drift?

Now about A - Max Battery Current for 14kW Adaptto controller is 160A. Today's 18650 - 3500mAh cells can work with constant 10A so to achieve that power I need 16 loops (16p x 10A = 160A) but again I do not want to treat my cells in hard way and drain from them 10A constant (for example if I want to go uphill for longer period of time) so maybe I should go with 18P so it would give me potential of 180A but will never go above 160A as controller cannot consume more so it will give me less then 10A constant drain per cell which is more healthy for them???

It would give 26S18P - monstrous 468 cell battery pack, heavy, pricey but think about it's power potential and what distance could I drive without charging! Theoretically 14kW Adapttos controller should be able to handle it. What do you think?

2 - after we agree to the number of cells how should I connect them to Adaptto BMS? Please consider this: what will happen if one cell in parallel will malfunction and threaten to burn whole circuit? I do not want my bike to end like latest Samsung smartphones blowing me up sky high Can Adaptto BMS cut of one cell or (what is more probable) whole loop of lets say 26 cells (if I go with 26s)? Can Adaptto BMS cut off on of 18P loops (the one with one damaged cell) and let me drive with 17 loops - less V and less A but anyway will have enough power to SAFELY go back to home so I can find and replace one of 26 damaged cells to new one? How does it work?

3 - Alex told me I should go with Sanyo 3500 as they are the best cells on the market, do you all agree?

4 - Do you know how can I achieve 12V from Adapttos controller for example if I want to use motorcycle light that operates under 12V or electric horn (claxon)??? Adaptto promise to imprint some DC-DC converter into controller like year ago or even more and still they did not achieve it so I am thinking about work around of this problem - any simple solutions for that or I should build second, independent pack of cells that gives me exact 12V for lightning/sound purposes?

 

[Merlin]

too bad..since you dont have time to "learn" this topic, you will not have time to build your bike

really...its abit of respect to READ if you are new to a community.
this mega long topic has tons of information. found by users, by testing doing and destroying

if you want to benefit from it, give a bit of respect and ask in a normal way and you will get your help.

no brain and no time is the wrong way.


if there is really no brain, believe alex what he suggest.

in "short":

20s is the way to go. more voltage is not needed. not even for your "application"
if you want speed, you need power. if you need such power, you need a bigger motor for continue >10KW

if you are a drag racer like doc bass, you can go with 22s. buy hipower lipos for a short run. money is no problem + if you blow your controller you can repair yourself
absolutley forget MORE THEN 22S (!)

actual firmware from the 14KW delivers 200A Battery. so if you go with 20s (84v) you peak out on 17KW.....without FF you will heat your hub in a few minutes.

i dont know what frame you have. but over 400 batteries need alot of space.
if you want only power you can go with Samsung 25R or 30Q for the Power you need.

you can calculate that you have not the range with it.
If you want Range AND Power, lipos should do the job better for you. If you firm with lipos, multistars are the cheap way. if money is not the prob. Graphene are double that price but
i think they will sag a bit less then multistars.

(btw my 6P multistars sag on full 200 amps only 5v....thats really great)

The Adaptto BMS is more a security feature for overcharging oder discharging + see your cells condition and find early mad "p" apples.
all bms only see the average cell voltage. so if one cell die, you will not see it.
thats normal to all bms you can buy.

at least. forget DCDC stuff from adaptto.

buy a normal DC DC from china and go for it.

 

[DasDouble]

Montage.pl, I have sent you a private message. I can help you out with this.

Regards

 

[teslanv]

Still having issues with the Domino Throttle. :?

With the 500 Ohm resistor wired into the throttle +5V and Ground, I get reasonable throttle modulation, but when I road tested it this afternoon, It will occasionally cut-out. It's jerky, and doesn't last for more than a half-second. Does this in all three power modes, generally only at WOT.

Barent, did you have a 2nd throttle attached for variable ebrake?
if not, please give it a try. detach all resistors from the domino and just "install" a china throttle for ebrake.

the 5v is shared to both throttles and it looks like the ebrake "throttle" attached helps the adaptto to "accept" the domino without any issue.

Merlin,

You are the Man. That solved the problem. And Didn't need a resistor. As an added bonus, The bike has variable regen braking now, too. Kicking myself for not doing this to begin with. Would have saved so much headache.

 

[endlessly_ending]

Hi
I have problems with updating the firmware using an XP machine.
The tool downloads and can be opened either as user or as administrator.
FAT32 formatted SD card is recognized and written in the first line.
Second line I cant decipher - just hieroglyphics in there.

No matter if I press first or third button - nothing happens.
Pressing second button, it directs me to the windows explorer.

Can anybody help?
Thanks!

 

[Offroader]

I think this is common sense to everyone.

But you really need to be careful if you let the bike sit for long periods of time and the battery discharging.

Normally, if the screen goes into suspend mode it will draw very little current and you can let the bike sit months without any problems. Voltage doesn't seem to drop at all on my bike.

But I just checked my bike after sitting for some days and the screen wasn't in suspend mode. I also noticed the volts dropped but I can't remember exactly what the voltage was before. I also didn't make sure that the controller went into suspend mode last time I left the bike. But volts dropped from low 70's to 69.

I'm not sure why the controller didn't go into suspend mode, the screen was on but not bright until I hit a button. I lowered the suspend timeout to 120 from 760 seconds and it went into suspend. Optimally you want to disconnect the battery, but this may not be easy depending on your setup and not worth it if you are letting the bike sit for only a week or so.

Best would be to make sure the controller always goes into suspend mode before letting the bike sit. I'll have to start doing this again.

Now I'm wondering, why didn't the controller go into suspend mode like it always does? I did throw a lot of boxes and stuff on top of my bike, that was laying on top of a lot of bags, but I remember making sure nothing was hitting the throttle. I also had a heavy bag pushed up against the handlebar. I'm thinking this may have had something to do with it as I don't normally do this.

If the controller doesn't go into suspend mode, does it draw a lot more current than not in suspend mode? Wondering if this was the reason for the rapid discharge.

Can the bike come out of suspend mode if I don't press any buttons on the screen?

Either way it was scary to find my adaptto screen on and the volts dropped by 1 to 3 volts on my 3.3 KW pack. Since I didn't plan on using the bike for a while, it may have discharged a lot lower as I like to keep my voltage already low when not using the bike.

 

[mudale222]

U should physically turn off ur ebike every time u get off them. This is the safe thing to do regardless of voltage drop. Any vehicle that not in immediate use should be turn off. I have small nephew (maybe 6 years old) who fully switched the throttle in the middle of the house.. It's flew like a rocket into the refrigerator... Easily could be a disaster.
In the adaptto u have two wires to make a switch. Use it.

 

[ridethelightning]

I think this is common sense to everyone.

But you really need to be careful if you let the bike sit for long periods of time and the battery discharging.

Normally, if the screen goes into suspend mode it will draw very little current and you can let the bike sit months without any problems. Voltage doesn't seem to drop at all on my bike.

But I just checked my bike after sitting for some days and the screen wasn't in suspend mode. I also noticed the volts dropped but I can't remember exactly what the voltage was before. I also didn't make sure that the controller went into suspend mode last time I left the bike. But volts dropped from low 70's to 69.

I'm not sure why the controller didn't go into suspend mode, the screen was on but not bright until I hit a button. I lowered the suspend timeout to 120 from 760 seconds and it went into suspend. Optimally you want to disconnect the battery, but this may not be easy depending on your setup and not worth it if you are letting the bike sit for only a week or so.

Best would be to make sure the controller always goes into suspend mode before letting the bike sit. I'll have to start doing this again.

Now I'm wondering, why didn't the controller go into suspend mode like it always does? I did throw a lot of boxes and stuff on top of my bike, that was laying on top of a lot of bags, but I remember making sure nothing was hitting the throttle. I also had a heavy bag pushed up against the handlebar. I'm thinking this may have had something to do with it as I don't normally do this.

If the controller doesn't go into suspend mode, does it draw a lot more current than not in suspend mode? Wondering if this was the reason for the rapid discharge.

Can the bike come out of suspend mode if I don't press any buttons on the screen?

Either way it was scary to find my adaptto screen on and the volts dropped by 1 to 3 volts on my 3.3 KW pack. Since I didn't plan on using the bike for a while, it may have discharged a lot lower as I like to keep my voltage already low when not using the bike.

I had this exact thing happen with 2 adaptto bikes, after leaving for ~3 months.

normally they dont lose any charge even when sitting for several weeks, but i got back to find one 2kwh and 3kwh ,22s packs at 10v and 26v respectively.
not sure what happened. the dc/dc was disconnected so not that, i think it may be suspend mode not working but who knows!

-always turn your bike off or disconnect battery for any length of storage!