I ordered the "insert" from ebikestuff and just installed it. I must say I am impressed with the fit, it was perfect. And their instruction video was very detailed and helpful. I ordered just the "insert" and no other parts since I figured that will make the biggest impact and I dont push the motor very hard. Since I also installed a temp sensor I will soon see what temperatures I am running at.If you want a complete solution.
A Polish webshop has put together a complete set for better heat management of the Tsdz2 and made a video how to do it.
- heatsink plate between motor and case
- heatsink ring between motor and cover
- heatsink insert between stator and cover
- heatsink radiator on outer case and cover
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Edit:
@hayden222 has found these mods too and has given also an possible alternative with Permatex Steel Weld putty.
Hardware temperature control tsdz2
- Thread starter andrea_104kg
- Start date
Inital tests (pedaling around like a madman for a full battery) I could just about break 50 C. This is at 500W max on 36V motor. I might try the citys biggest hill at some point, but this seems very promising. Ambient temp around 20 C
An additional note for air-cooling modification. I got caught in a slight rain shower yesterday and thought front wheel would throw water and get the motor wet. It turns out the motor is offset to the left of the frame and not in direct line with the front wheel as evidenced by road worms and crud on the front of the downtube and absent from the filter media covering the large vent holes in motor cover...
Thanks for the feedback
Water ingress is indeed the most what worries me with such air-cooling.
I admire your perseverance to do so anyway.
Slowchris11
1 W
We all suffer from the same illness: We install a pedal help and expect it to transform a bicycle into a motor bike.
Ok, of course I'm the exception from the rule, I simply want to keep up with the endurance and top speed (twice the legal pedelec limit) of my Malinois-German Shepherd-Hybrid in my avatar. Not very succsessful on my side, but we both have fun. Here pictured before and after a high speed test.
Ok, of course I'm the exception from the rule, I simply want to keep up with the endurance and top speed (twice the legal pedelec limit) of my Malinois-German Shepherd-Hybrid in my avatar. Not very succsessful on my side, but we both have fun. Here pictured before and after a high speed test.
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I got it up to 60 C riding up the towns ski slope with ambient around 25 C. It would probably have continued getting warmer if the hill was even longer, so it feels good to have the firmware 85 C limit set. But for my usage I will probably never be able to reach those temps. If I lived in the alps I might. Once again, highly recommend that cooling kit and the ”insert”
marvin78
100 W
I ordered the basic kit from that shop as well couple days back, looking forward to getting it in together with the speed sensor. The steel insert and plate are the most important part of their more expensive offering, tbh those heatsinks themselves are vastly overpriced you can expoxy some regular pc heatsinks to the casing and it will work just well for 1/20th the price. Also ordered the temp sensor ofc, so I'll be ready for OSF.
Though I am not sure if I'm going to use it my current motor or if I will need to send that back for service beforehand, I will void warranty anyway but I rather do that from a 100% working motor.
Though I am not sure if I'm going to use it my current motor or if I will need to send that back for service beforehand, I will void warranty anyway but I rather do that from a 100% working motor.
raylo32
100 kW
The thing is with TSDZ2, once you've done the cooling mods, especially repeating a method that is known to work, you don't really need the temp sensor anymore. Just ride the thing and don't worry about it.
Which cooling mods are known to work?
raylo32
100 kW
The one you did. Pretty much any that fill that gap between the motor and case.
marvin78
100 W
Doesn't this depend entirely on how many Watts you're trying to push through the engine, or does the cooling mod makes thermals an non issue to the point where pushing the engine harder would introduce failure points elsewhere?
I have no need for more power I think, I have a 500w 48v motor ( well I have a 48v motor with fw tuned for 500w ) and I find the Turbo setting of the stock fw to not be lacking in power during acceleration ( I just want higher cadence support ). I think the current torque assist is perfect for the current drive train installed, the stock 11-32 hg-500 and the stock front 42t chain ring is more then enough to make my mtb xc loops more fun ( and less of a physical suffering .. ).
But after 22km of riding on that loop my engine casing without the mod is warm to the touch. I don't want to know.. or well I do.. how hot that means the inside had to have been at that point. And seeing how tsdz2b in listing also has been sold as 750w, I guess that after cooling mod nothing would stop someone from trying to push that controller to it's max. Seeing how temps over 85c already can start causing your magnets to loose strength, I would rather be safe then sorry.
So I am thinking a temp sensor is a whole lot cheaper as replacing the electric motor unit?
raylo32
100 kW
If it makes you feel better. I did one once on my first TSDZ2 when I did my cooling mods and it showed that no matter how hard I rode it the temps stayed below critical levels. So, when I bought another TSDZ2 with pre-installed cooling mods I did not bother to open it up to add a temp sensor.
marvin78
100 W
I would like to think that while you, in your environment, with your riding, did not see any issues, this doesn't imply anything for others actually.
1. Maybe you don't push the engine as hard
2. Maybe you live in a more temperate climate
3. Maybe I will install my cooling mod wrong?
Are you sure to tell people to not bother with the temp sensor based on your anecdotal evidence is the most prudent advice, without mentioning it's based on that limited experience?
raylo32
100 kW
Just giving you my experience in a hot and humid place as an A level pedaler who pushes the bike hard on hilly terrain. Take it however you like. Install a sensor if you like. It isn't that difficult. And if you don't do good cooling mods, I'd say the sensor is essential.
marvin78
100 W
Well since it would be the first time I'll do this cooling mod, having the temp sensor to verify I didn't screw it up makes a lot of sense to me
You're riding hilly terrain, what should I be thinking off? I live in the flattest country you can imagine, most of what I can see around me was once the bottom of a sea. But I can go to the mtb trails around here and especially Bergen does have some elevation ( dunes.. not mountains ).
The plan is installing OSF and street mode for getting to the trails ( without having my bike impounded ) and then having as much power as I want once there. Thing is now tuned for 500w, but 750w with cooling kit sounds fun if it doesn't damage the motor and since I won't be using is constantly I can life with the impact on possible range.
edit: I would love riding my bike in the Appalachians some day.. though it's quite unlikely
Maybe the Alps .. Mega Avalanche is on my bucket list... somedayraylo32
100 kW
That's the only way most of us ride these here. I have had no problems. As for range, just keep it in a lower assist level for as much as you need. I have gotten about 30 miles pedaling hard riding on max assist with a 600 Wh battery. I have gone 37 miles on the same battery going slower and using less assist. In both cases i had pretty good reserve.
marvin78
100 W
I've been checked 3 times on my 36v 250w hub motor bike... to the point where they had to read my motor rating from it's label...
I was running a 48v battery giving it about 50km/h without load and usually a tad above 40 on flats with a little pedaling though it's not geared for those speeds. Controller is rated to 60v, it's a 24/36/48 single board model, only firmware is different. I can't change battery settings, so I have to manually check voltage and charge instead of relying on the status indicator, but other then that it's a nice stealth thingy. Wouldn't want to take it on a trail though.
The other bike is an old Giant but it's a lot more capable ( once all my issues are sorted again ). So I am looking forward to if I get checked to have a 250w 25km/h limited ebike kit.
I done a 22km loop on my closest mtb trails, with about 10km of road in between and the same after. That's about 44km ( 28 miles ), and when I got back I had about 46.3v left from the 54v I left with. That's also a 600Wh ( 12.5Ah ) battery from pspower. But, I am pretty certain I was feeling a lot more internal resistance then I should, something felt to tight somewhere. Then, at the end of the ride, I suddenly felt more assistance when using lower AS levels, it was like that internal resistance just went away. Couple of km's further the clunking started, always when the pedals are exactly vertical, and there is now quite some play in the crank arms when in that position. Seller can't offer any hint as to what I should check, and since it's within 14 day return period it's going back and I ordered a new one :/
It was such a weird experience btw, riding in such low cadence with so much power I found myself grabbing for brakes where I normally would be standing on my pedals .. messes my whole balance / bike handling skills up
If you can ride ~40 miles on your local terrain on max assistance and riding hard without having to worry about the temperature, I guess you got merit telling me I will be fine if I do the cooling mod correctly.
Slowchris11
1 W
This is the design problem of the TSDZ2 you can reduce by adding the extra ball bearing. You put too much load on the crank and the shaft bends, destroying the weak internal bearings. The change of assistance comes from deforming the tourque sensor on the same shaft.
The new one will end just the same until you invest 3€ for the extra part. If the shaft has come loose, the damage has been done. So modify first, don't use it without.
If you are a 40kg Chinese girl, pedaling on Beijing roads, you don't need this fix.
marvin78
100 W
In that case I am glad my new one broke within my 14 day return period... even if seller wants to try and weasel out of it it seems ( and still hasn't shipped me my new motor I already paid for .... ).
New motor off course has to be checked before modding, but I'll limit that to a short 'electrical test' on flat tarmac without putting to much strain on the spindle.
I already have those bearing, looking around for the proper spacers and my basic cooling kit ( alu insert, alu top plate + paste ect ) will come in soon as well just as my extra speedsensor cable.
I will still open it up later today since seller hasn't send me a return label yet. If the damage is limited to either the torque sensor itself or that single needle bearing, if possible to replace they can just send me replacement parts and I'm good with that. if the spindle is bent that would need replacement as well... coming to think of it, maybe all those probable parts adding up should just convince me to leave it and return it for a refund ( and buy another motor again straight away as I want to build another bike ).
Edit: btw avg weight of Chinese women is 58kg.. and don't judge but I'm not that much above that anyway So I'm quite surprised I was able to damage the spindle / torque sensor / bearing.
Btw if the torque sensor would be damaged in a way where I get more assistance at PAS 2 then I had before, shouldn't that be a linear change ( also affecting all the other output levels )?
edit: my motor was not damaged it turned out, since after taking it apart and putting it back together my issues went away.
New motor off course has to be checked before modding, but I'll limit that to a short 'electrical test' on flat tarmac without putting to much strain on the spindle.
I already have those bearing, looking around for the proper spacers and my basic cooling kit ( alu insert, alu top plate + paste ect ) will come in soon as well just as my extra speedsensor cable.
I will still open it up later today since seller hasn't send me a return label yet. If the damage is limited to either the torque sensor itself or that single needle bearing, if possible to replace they can just send me replacement parts and I'm good with that. if the spindle is bent that would need replacement as well... coming to think of it, maybe all those probable parts adding up should just convince me to leave it and return it for a refund ( and buy another motor again straight away as I want to build another bike ).
Edit: btw avg weight of Chinese women is 58kg.. and don't judge but I'm not that much above that anyway
So I'm quite surprised I was able to damage the spindle / torque sensor / bearing.Btw if the torque sensor would be damaged in a way where I get more assistance at PAS 2 then I had before, shouldn't that be a linear change ( also affecting all the other output levels )?
edit: my motor was not damaged it turned out, since after taking it apart and putting it back together my issues went away.
Last edited:
See post #299. Another ride with air-cooled motor….. I rode 15 miles today on the flat with outside air temp 80F. Average speed was 18 mph. I used highest power level 9 which I have limited to 450 Watts. Cadence was about 90 in slightly lower gear. Scale on graph is off by 2x. Actual max motor temp was 148F.
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cilami
1 µW
What is the thickness of the "insert"?
From memory maybe 3-4 mm, thinner in the grooves. But its also tapered, thicker on one side to perfectly fit the shape of the shell. I was very impressed with the fit
marvin78
100 W
Lol I was both very impressed as frustrated when I didn't notice there was only one orientation it fits in perfectly.
I would btw have said it felt thicker then 3-4mm, more like 5-6 on the thick parts and indeed maybe 3-4 in the indents. But I didn't measure anything, just felt 'solid' and it had some mass since when taking a cold insert from my mailbox and pressing it against my neck still took quite some time before the insert's temperature started to increase.
Insert is most definitely the most important part, much more important in increasing heat dissipation through the shell then the top plate.
Not sure if adding additional heatsinks to the shell will help a lot, it get's hot when in use ( as in, hot to the touch ) but the moment I turn down the power that heat sheds pretty quickly already.
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