Help w/ Large Front Loader Conversion (Yuba Supermarche/Supercargo)

[LupinIII]

On a quest to upgrade my Yuba Supermarche/Supercargo with a rear hub DD kit. I've been doing a lot of reading here (amazing community) and Reddit to get a sense of what to expect, what kit and batteries to consider, etc.

I'm at the point where I need a sanity check before clicking the purchase button on my chosen components and would appreciate any suggestions (or corrections) in case I've made a mistake somewhere.

Bike and riding conditions:

• 2-wheel front loader cargo bike weighing in at 300+ lbs
• Primary use is commuting up to 15 miles per day with plans for longer, leisurely weekend rides
• Some low to medium grade hills but nothing sustained for long distances
• Not interested in high top speeds, would be happy with up to ~20 mph
• Frequent stop and go riding due to traffic in the area

I'm leaning toward a rear hub DD kit because the Yuba's frame geometry is not ideal for some of the popular mid-drive options out there. I'd also prefer the relatively simple install and lower maintenance of a rear hub.

With all that in mind, I'm debating between two kits:

• Leafbike 48V/52V 1500W
• NBPower 48V - 72V 2000W

For power, I have my sights set on the EM3ev 52V 19.2 AH (14S4P) battery.

My questions:

• For the bike and riding conditions I described, does this set-up make sense? Will it lack torque for hills or getting up to speed?
• Which kit would you suggest?
• If going with Leafbike, is there a custom winding I should request?
• Are the brakes that come with the kits a must-have?
• Bike has an 8-speed shifter/cassette, but the kits come with 7-speed freewheels. Any issue installing the 7-speed and using the limit screw on the derailleur?
• Any other suggestions or details I should be considering?

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

[Chalo]

Those motors are overkill for what you're doing, optimized for much higher power and speed than you need. Because they're direct drive, you have to pack a big heavy motor to get the high torque that is your most usable output value.

Also, rear hub motors are pretty compromised for pedal gearing-- either you use a 7 speed freewheel and limit your gearing range, or you use cassette getting and accept a weaker more troublesome motor axle. And in either case, exuberant pedaling can crack the side cover that holds the freewheel thread or freehub body.

Also, hub motors make wheels that are weaker and require more upkeep than those built on regular bike hubs. Since the rear wheel is doing a harder job, it makes sense to use the stronger wheel in that location.

When I converted a Bullitt front loader for my shop to use as a little truck, I put a Bafang G020 geared hub motor in a 20" front wheel, with 48V battery and a 22A controller. The small diameter wheel lets the motor pull hard, and it naturally tops out in the 20 mph range.

It's not fancy (though it did let me keep the fancy derailleur gears that were already on the bike), and it won't impress your e-bike enthusiast friends. But it will work, very reliably and efficiently, for a long time.

 

[99zip99]

The leaf is your best bet if you want to put the money into it a lot of people don't like the controllers that come with their kit ? But they will put a plug for a cycle analyst on the controller only if you asked and pay for it first.
If you want a motor that would be very hard for you to melt. It would be the Sali 3,000 for 350.00 shipped bato my door disc brake only. Is controller is supposed to be waterproof and have a slow ramp up I got the 72 volt version but at 48 or 52 you're not going to burn it up the motor. I've been hearing bad things about UPP. If I was to buy a battery buy it from leaf with charger at the time of purchase.
Or the Sali kit with a buffet battery they're a big corporation and should be able to supply a battery meant and to match your controllers output as that's how you buy a battery match it to the controller. Or over my batteries are way older and 50 amp 200 amp but I only draw 40 or 60 amp. Overkill but I don't use a BMS just have balance wires it's a hobby not good for the wife.
I'm in the Sun and I'm having a hard time rereading my post so it's talk to text

Plus how much money do you want to spend

 

[Chalo]

To address some of your questions directly:

The setups you suggested would work fine, they're just too much motor for the job. You can save weight and expense by using something more right-sized.

I'd look at 500W rated geared front hub motors. Feed them about 1000W peak electrical power (so like 48V x 22A or 36V x 30A). Throttle control is preferable for lots of stop and go.

What winding Leaf motor you would use is a function of desired speed, wheel diameter, and available power. Leaf 1500W is more than adequate in terms of maximum torque, but needlessly powerful for the speeds you suggested. Also it's quite heavy.

You don't have to use the brake levers that come with a kit, and in most cases you're better off if you don't.

8 speed and 7 speed systems put their sprockets at slightly different spacing intervals. You might be able to tease a 7sp freewheel into sort-of working with an 8sp shifter, but it won't ever be right. A 7 speed shifter is cheap cheap, and will work fine with an 8 speed derailleur of the same species. But as I already said, you don't have to mess with the shifting or the pedal drivetrain at all, if you motorize the front wheel.

You don't need a plug and play kit if you keep it simple. How I'd do it is the same way I've done dozens of conversions so far when performance demands are reasonably modest and the budget is tight. Bafang G020 geared front hub salvaged from a Jump bike, KT 22A controller, LCD3/LCD4/LCD11 display, 44 or 48V second life battery, thumb throttle. PAS optional. No switched brake levers, no regen, no Bluetooth anything, no BS.

Anymore, I'd probably skip the KT controller and use a cheap Chinese "three mode" gold controller with the same power rating and no display. But for a n00b, I think it's worth it to have a display that tracks mileage, voltage, and speed.

 

[99zip99]

You live in DC I would get something that is waterproof and where do you want to put the pieces make the box the size of the controller see where you busy you're going to put it leave room for wires and the battery get a couple shoe boxes and some tape and make a battery the size you're thinking of buying before you pull the trigger see where you would like to put it a razor blade and two shoe boxes and a long roller you'll have it done in 10 minutes and if you have to slide it down on the battery connection give yourself enough room. It's hard to outthink it.
Oh I got one make sure if you get that big wide direct drive motor make sure you have room for the nut in the rear next to your derailleur I ran into that trouble on a 20 year old trek. I flipped the nut over and use norlock washers. Oh you need a torque arm front or rear make sure it's thick. Maybe two if you choose a front motor.
What else. ? Let's get those boxes checked.
Plus that big DD motor once you get it to 18 22 mph it can do it all day taking very little wattage to propel you and plus one or two.

 

[LupinIII]

When I converted a Bullitt front loader for my shop to use as a little truck, I put a Bafang G020 geared hub motor in a 20" front wheel, with 48V battery and a 22A controller. The small diameter wheel lets the motor pull hard, and it naturally tops out in the 20 mph range.

It's not fancy (though it did let me keep the fancy derailleur gears that were already on the bike), and it won't impress your e-bike enthusiast friends. But it will work, very reliably and efficiently, for a long time.

Thanks Chalo - I think you just convinced me to go with a front hub instead. At this point, making the installation even simpler and letting me leave the rear cassette alone is quite appealing.

Looking on Leafbike, I see a 36V 750W front hub with the controller maxed out at 26 amps. What do you think about that as an alternative to boost my top speed a little? Am I just losing top speed by stepping down from 48V/52V? The cheaper battery options at 36V are nice too.

I tried to find a used Bullitt in my area but no dice.

 

[LupinIII]

To address some of your questions directly:

The setups you suggested would work fine, they're just too much motor for the job. You can save weight and expense by using something more right-sized.

I'd look at 500W rated geared front hub motors. Feed them about 1000W peak electrical power (so like 48V x 22A or 36V x 30A). Throttle control is preferable for lots of stop and go.

What winding Leaf motor you would use is a function of desired speed, wheel diameter, and available power. Leaf 1500W is more than adequate in terms of maximum torque, but needlessly powerful for the speeds you suggested. Also it's quite heavy.

You don't have to use the brake levers that come with a kit, and in most cases you're better off if you don't.

8 speed and 7 speed systems put their sprockets at slightly different spacing intervals. You might be able to tease a 7sp freewheel into sort-of working with an 8sp shifter, but it won't ever be right. A 7 speed shifter is cheap cheap, and will work fine with an 8 speed derailleur of the same species. But as I already said, you don't have to mess with the shifting or the pedal drivetrain at all, if you motorize the front wheel.

You don't need a plug and play kit if you keep it simple. How I'd do it is the same way I've done dozens of conversions so far when performance demands are reasonably modest and the budget is tight. Bafang G020 geared front hub salvaged from a Jump bike, KT 22A controller, LCD3/LCD4/LCD11 display, 44 or 48V second life battery, thumb throttle. PAS optional. No switched brake levers, no regen, no Bluetooth anything, no BS.

Anymore, I'd probably skip the KT controller and use a cheap Chinese "three mode" gold controller with the same power rating and no display. But for a n00b, I think it's worth it to have a display that tracks mileage, voltage, and speed.

And again, thanks Chalo for going through these one by one.

As you said, my demands are pretty modest, but my budget is not that tight. I have no qualms spending more (especially on the battery) to increase my odds of a hassle-free experience.

At this point, I'm looking at the 36V 750W front hub which I want to match with a Grin Tech 36V 24AH.

 

[LupinIII]

You live in DC I would get something that is waterproof and where do you want to put the pieces make the box the size of the controller see where you busy you're going to put it leave room for wires and the battery get a couple shoe boxes and some tape and make a battery the size you're thinking of buying before you pull the trigger see where you would like to put it a razor blade and two shoe boxes and a long roller you'll have it done in 10 minutes and if you have to slide it down on the battery connection give yourself enough room. It's hard to outthink it.

I'm still thinking through the setup on my bike. Fortunately, there is a ton of real estate between the cargo box and frame. I will follow your advice and use some mock-ups to visualize it.

 

[Chalo]

And again, thanks Chalo for going through these one by one.

As you said, my demands are pretty modest, but my budget is not that tight. I have no qualms spending more (especially on the battery) to increase my odds of a hassle-free experience.

At this point, I'm looking at the 36V 750W front hub which I want to match with a Grin Tech 36V 24AH.

Well, that would certainly constitute a hassle-free route.

For what it's worth, motor operating voltage and motor winding work together to establish an unloaded top speed. Brushless motors have a value called kV, or RPM per volt, based on architecture, pole count, and winding count. They achieve maximum power (if not limited by the controller) at about 50% of the unloaded speed, and maximum efficiency (at much reduced power) at about 80% of the unloaded speed. So the closer your cruising speed and required power converges on what's available at 80% of the unloaded speed, the more efficient your cruise will be and the more maximum power will occur in the heart of your acceleration/climbing regime.

Leaf is more or less unique in that they'll wind you a motor to match your requirements including battery voltage, whereas with most other motors you choose from one or two windings and then conform your battery voltage and controller amps to the motor you have.

Grin is unparalleled in advising you with knowledgeable help to get what you want.

Second life batteries don't have to be a compromise. Often, getting an automotive, medical, or data center battery pack means buying something cheaply that's way too nice for any reasonable budget, and all you have to do is add a BMS or balancer to turn it into a vastly overqualified e-bike pack.

UR18650ZK V52A Sanyo 54V 38Ah 2kWh 18650 module | Greentec Auto

Check out these UR18650ZK V52A Sanyo 54V battery modules for sale. Perfect for modular projects with space to install your own BMS. Free shipping!

www.greentecauto.com

You can't touch this kind of quality control or value in the e-bike market. And you have just the kind of contraption to carry it on without side effects.

 

[n00b]

On a quest to upgrade my Yuba Supermarche/Supercargo with a rear hub DD kit. I've been doing a lot of reading here (amazing community) and Reddit to get a sense of what to expect, what kit and batteries to consider, etc.

I'm at the point where I need a sanity check before clicking the purchase button on my chosen components and would appreciate any suggestions (or corrections) in case I've made a mistake somewhere.

Bike and riding conditions:

• 2-wheel front loader cargo bike weighing in at 300+ lbs
• Primary use is commuting up to 15 miles per day with plans for longer, leisurely weekend rides
• Some low to medium grade hills but nothing sustained for long distances
• Not interested in high top speeds, would be happy with up to ~20 mph
• Frequent stop and go riding due to traffic in the area

I'm leaning toward a rear hub DD kit because the Yuba's frame geometry is not ideal for some of the popular mid-drive options out there. I'd also prefer the relatively simple install and lower maintenance of a rear hub.

With all that in mind, I'm debating between two kits:

• Leafbike 48V/52V 1500W
• NBPower 48V - 72V 2000W

For power, I have my sights set on the EM3ev 52V 19.2 AH (14S4P) battery.

My questions:

• For the bike and riding conditions I described, does this set-up make sense? Will it lack torque for hills or getting up to speed?
• Which kit would you suggest?
• If going with Leafbike, is there a custom winding I should request?
• Are the brakes that come with the kits a must-have?
• Bike has an 8-speed shifter/cassette, but the kits come with 7-speed freewheels. Any issue installing the 7-speed and using the limit screw on the derailleur?
• Any other suggestions or details I should be considering?

Thanks in advance for your help!

I'd avoid that leafbike motor because of the way it's laced. I would install brake cutoffs for the motor, you don't want to be fighting against your motor that's trying to launch you out into traffic. You can adjust your derailleur to not mess up.

I actually have an NBPower 2000w rear hub kit clone, everything's the same except the rim is plain black, including the SW900 display that's wonky. I'm here actually looking for a way to bypass that hot garbage. All I need is on/of and throttle. It's a big heavy motor. There's a lot of gravity pulling that thing down and it's pretty wide, too. Actually have that all boxed up and ordered and installed a Voilamart rear hub. It's lighter and works.
Idk if they have the Voilamart for sale anymore. IMO, they were put together well. They give you everything, too.
Tools, tire, tube, cluster. I didn't use their tire, but it's actually a good quality knobby tire. Oh, I did use that tube though.
Okay, so actually I do know how to bypass the display with a NBPower kit, but not a Bafang motor. That's what I'm looking for.
Info on how to rig up a regular controller to a Bafang with just on/off and throttle. I have the throttles and controllers.

 

[LupinIII]

I'd avoid that leafbike motor because of the way it's laced. I would install brake cutoffs for the motor, you don't want to be fighting against your motor that's trying to launch you out into traffic. You can adjust your derailleur to not mess up.

I actually have an NBPower 2000w rear hub kit clone, everything's the same except the rim is plain black, including the SW900 display that's wonky. I'm here actually looking for a way to bypass that hot garbage. All I need is on/of and throttle. It's a big heavy motor. There's a lot of gravity pulling that thing down and it's pretty wide, too. Actually have that all boxed up and ordered and installed a Voilamart rear hub. It's lighter and works.
Idk if they have the Voilamart for sale anymore. IMO, they were put together well. They give you everything, too.
Tools, tire, tube, cluster. I didn't use their tire, but it's actually a good quality knobby tire. Oh, I did use that tube though.
Okay, so actually I do know how to bypass the display with a NBPower kit, but not a Bafang motor. That's what I'm looking for.
Info on how to rig up a regular controller to a Bafang with just on/off and throttle. I have the throttles and controllers.

I was concerned about size and weight too. Ended up going with a 500W 52V geared front hub for the better torque and smaller size. Definitely using brake cutoff sensors too with my existing levers.

 

[n00b]

I was concerned about size and weight too. Ended up going with a 500W 52V geared front hub for the better torque and smaller size. Definitely using brake cutoff sensors too with my existing levers.

I think you made out pretty good with your choices. Definitely use a torque arm or ..the hard part is the 2...