How Will Electric Vehicles Be Modified in the Future?

[billvon]

It's a numbers game. As long as the net is higher than the losses they will offer it.

Exactly! And the tradeoffs a company makes in order to make more money will often not be the same as the tradeoffs a driver wants for his vehicle.

What's the saying, win on Sunday sell on Monday. Performance sells. All the flagship models are performance models.

#1 best selling vehicle in the US - Ford F-series pickup
#2 - Chevy Silverado
#3 - Dodge Ram pickup
#4 - Nissan Rogue
#5 - Toyota RAV4

Not a lot of low 0-60 times in there.

 

[furcifer]

#1 best selling vehicle in the US - Ford F-series pickup

And the Raptor is the flagship $70K 450hp model. Because that's what everyone wants, a "tuned" F-150. How many customers walk into a Ford dealership and say "I don't want a new Raptor, it won't last with all that fancy hp, give me a base model"?

Not one. Ever.

 

[furcifer]

I just don't see it guys. Electrics are proving all you need to do to max out engine performance is touch a button.

I guess Tesla has one of the better motor designs right now, but you have to figure that in a competitive market the differences between theirs and the competition will be marginal.

Since the current size of vehicles is such that they can accommodate larger ICE engines, there's room under the hood for an electric motor you could pull a cruise ship with. So long as you have the battery to supply it power.

So the market should be headed towards a state where the best battery "performance" is rewarded with sales. If you can pull a few more amps for a few more minutes for a few more cycles, you win.

With the cost of batteries what it is today I don't see much of a cottage industry emerging to produce performance batteries for EV's that the manufacturers themselves couldn't make. Especially with the scarcity of materials being what it is.

Meh, this thread is depressing me.

 

[Punx0r]

#1 best selling vehicle in the US - Ford F-series pickup

And the Raptor is the flagship $70K 450hp model. Because that's what everyone wants, a "tuned" F-150. How many customers walk into a Ford dealership and say "I don't want a new Raptor, it won't last with all that fancy hp, give me a base model"?

Not one. Ever.

That actually happens every single time someone buys a non-raptor model. They'd rather tradeoff the extra performance for:

Lower purchase price
Lower taxes
Better fuel economy
Lower insurance costs
Cheaper servicing
Cheaper spare parts
And yes...often greater reliability

 

[furcifer]

That actually happens every single time someone buys a non-raptor model. They'd rather tradeoff the extra performance for:

Lower purchase price
Lower taxes
Better fuel economy
Lower insurance costs
Cheaper servicing
Cheaper spare parts
And yes...often greater reliability

I know the reason I'm not driving a Chiron is trunk space.

Seriously though, it's not a tradeoff, it's budgetary constraints. With an EV it's minimal cost to maximize motor output.

Yes, there is some added wear and tear, but YOU DON'T HAVE TO USE IT. Which is like having a Raptor that you can push a button on and have a stock F-150.

All we're really talking about here is adding a couple pounds of copper. Assuming the battery can handle it. Because like I said, the drivetrain needs to handle peak output which is at zero. It's not totally independent of peak motor output but it's still a function of the normal force, how much traction you can get. If the drivetrain can't smoke the tires then it's not a properly designed drivetrain.

After start-up the torque curve falls off and there's less stress on the drivetrain.

If manufacturers offer a "performance" battery they would basically have to design it to NOT go into standard models. Which customers, except possibly Apple customers, will see right through. So will the other manufacturers.

With all the tuning potential being available at the touch of a button, there's no performance modification market. Even with the cooling thing, if you can get to 150mph in 10 seconds then that's all the cooling you need. It's not realistic to think people are going to tax an engine for much longer than they would at start-up.

Tesla has already proven they can build an electric car that you can drive daily, and take to the track. That's completely unheard of in the tuning world until now. I'm sorry but things aren't going to get dialed back unless the government steps in.

Oh and another thing, giving people the option to wear out their cars faster is pure genius, and diabolical. WHY WOULDN'T YOU? With carbon fibre and other alloys that don't rust, plus electric motors that have ALWAYS lasted forever, the car market is poised to put itself out of business. In theory at least EV's should last much longer than ICE's. So not giving people ludicrious mode, even if they don't want it, is dumb.

 

[SquidBonez]

Perhaps more importantly, if my grandmother can do it's not much of a tune. Are you going to spend $5K on your deliberately under powered car so my grandma can roll up at a light and smoke your doors off in her Tesla by pushing a button?

It may be easy to do but that's what a "tune" is these days - a reprogram. What once involved using a screwdriver to adjust a carburetor is now adjusting values in a computer. But I digress. The point about your grandmother's Tesla would be like saying "Why would you buy a $5,000 Mustang and spend $2,000 on modifications when you can just buy a $400,000 Lamborghini that's way faster anyway?" Again, not every car is a Tesla and not every car built is going to compete with a Tesla. There will be electric equivalents to Civics, Miatas, etc. While they aren't very fast, they're fun and way cheaper than, say, a Dodge Challenger Hellcat. And the people who own these cars will eventually want to tune them and modify them for better performance, much like today.

A Zero is a toy, it's not $60K daily driver. Which is my point. You're talking about ICE's performance mods and whatnot but what's the cost of failure? Usually very little. Smoke a battery pack in an EV and it's likely to be a write off, at best very expensive.

Well, yes, a Zero is a toy, but this conversation extends to ANY electric vehicle. We've only been talking about cars, but electric motorcycles, dirt bikes, quads, UTVs, and other powersports markets (where modifications are extremely common) could apply here as well. And yes, while a battery is expensive TODAY, that isn't to say it will always be. Battery prices are falling and will only continue to fall, especially if solid-state becomes a reality soon. Today's Leaf will be tomorrow's $500 Civic. Battery replacements in the future will be cheaper. But at the end of the day, cars are an expensive hobby anyway. Nothing will ever be "cheap", it will just get "cheaper".

It's seems to me your whole argument hinges around them getting worse. They won't.

That's not what I'm saying at all! I'm just saying that not every car is going to be a $60,000 luxury car with multiple motors and 600 horsepower. There will still be little cheap electric hatchbacks with a single motor 130 horsepower that teenagers will buy used on Craigslist for a couple grand and drop in a new inverter and get a VCM tune. Electric cars, as they stand today, are still niche. But as they take over other markets in the automotive sector, we will begin to see equivalents of modern day ICE cars, with the difference being that they're electric. There will be a market for a small, cheap city car just like there will be for a powerful luxury sedan.

But like I said, the whole performance tuning scene is about building up a car to the point where is runs quick but doesn't blow up.

Yes, this remains constant regardless of whether we're talking about ICE or EV.

EV car manufacturers are already doing this today. Tesla has proven they can kill the performance market with a simple down load.

Software can only do so much until you run into limitations with the hardware. Replacing the hardware will allow for better performance potential. This is where people who modify ICE cars begin to change exhausts, intakes, valve springs, etc. In the future, we will be changing inverters, cables, contactors, and even swapping battery modules. And once more - I feel like I sound like a broken record but I'm just trying to make a point - not every car will have the performance of a Tesla. Nissan isn't going to start selling Leafs that do 0-60 in 2 seconds. But the people who own said Leafs and want a bit more performance out of them will want to upgrade and tune them more for outright speed at the cost of reliability/range.

If the drivetrain can't smoke the tires then it's not a properly designed drivetrain.

I like the way you think.

If manufacturers offer a "performance" battery they would basically have to design it to NOT go into standard models. Which customers, except possibly Apple customers, will see right through. So will the other manufacturers.

Sort of like how Tesla has the 75kw, 85kw, and 100kw battery packs? Tesla uses multiple battery packs in their cars just like you can buy an F-150 with a whole slew of different engines to choose from. Everything from a gas-powered 6 cylinder to a diesel 8 cylinder.

With all the tuning potential being available at the touch of a button, there's no performance modification market.

Again, software can only do so much until the hardware begins to be the limiting factor. This is true with both ICEs and EVs. That's why aftermarket companies sell hardware that can withstand more power/abuse. Sure, you get "tuning at the touch of a button", but that's no different then selecting a "sport mode" in a modern car. That's all Ludicrous mode is. A glorified sport mode. But the software can only make use of what the hardware can allow. Upgrade the hardware, you can allow for more. That right there is the motive for modifying a car.

Tesla has already proven they can build an electric car that you can drive daily, and take to the track. That's completely unheard of in the tuning world until now. I'm sorry but things aren't going to get dialed back unless the government steps in.

Any performance oriented car out there today can be driven daily and then taken to the track. Hell, I could take my 2001 Dodge Dakota that I drive every day to the drag strip if I really wanted to. It's not at all "unheard of". Having a car that can be driven on the road but also on the track is literally the appeal of every sports car ever made in the history of ever. Ever. :lol:

Oh and another thing, giving people the option to wear out their cars faster is pure genius, and diabolical. WHY WOULDN'T YOU? With carbon fibre and other alloys that don't rust, plus electric motors that have ALWAYS lasted forever, the car market is poised to put itself out of business. In theory at least EV's should last much longer than ICE's. So not giving people ludicrious mode, even if they don't want it, is dumb.

People will still crash/total cars. People will still want the "next big thing". People will still have a car that doesn't have a thing wrong with it but they just feel like getting a new car. Most people who get rid of their ICE cars aren't doing it because the car doesn't work anymore, but because they just feel like getting a new one. The car market won't die because of EVs. A market that will probably take a hit is maintenance shops because, well, there's less maintenance to do. But you get my point.

 

[SquidBonez]

#1 best selling vehicle in the US - Ford F-series pickup
#2 - Chevy Silverado
#3 - Dodge Ram pickup
#4 - Nissan Rogue
#5 - Toyota RAV4

Not a lot of low 0-60 times in there.

Because most people don't buy performance cars. But performance cars are GREAT for marketing.

For an example I'm more familiar with, I'll use Polaris UTVs. You have the utility-focused Ranger, and the performance-focused RZR (and the General which sits between the two but that's besides the point). Guess which one gets the most sales? That's right, the Ranger. By a lot. But the RZR is on pretty much every bit of promotional material they make. Same thought process applies here.

Win on Sunday and sell on Monday may not be accurate in the traditional sense of what it once meant, but performance still generates money.

 

[furcifer]

Again, not every car is a Tesla and not every car built is going to compete with a Tesla.

No they're going to be better.

If you're building off the premise that technology is going to go backwards in the future you may want to rethink this. It's never happened in history.

 

[furcifer]

oftware can only do so much until you run into limitations with the hardware.

But you said the hardware can take it. That's what everyone said, and I tend to agree.


Right now manufacturers are primarily focused on range. Customers have range anxiety.

Except Tesla, in the case of the Ludicrious mode.

Sure Tesla's will always be Tesla's, but we're talking about a feature really. A mode to max out performance.

There isn't a single car manufacturer that has options the others don't. There never will be.

And again, regardless of whether or not people want it, the option can be downloaded for no cost by the manufacturer.

 

[furcifer]

Because most people don't buy performance cars.

Because they cost a lot more more money!

And this is what I'm saying. It shouldn't cost that much more to have a Ludicrious mode.

If it doesn't today, it won't in the future. Tesla has established this as a fact. Other manufacturers will undoubtedly follow suit. Because that's how the market has always worked.

So just assume for a minute I'm right, every EV comes with a sport mode that basically draws the max safe amperage from the battery pack. What are the modifications you can see people doing?


eta: and those Tesla batteries are range packs if I'm not mistaken. as far as I know they have the same peak power.

 

[SquidBonez]

No they're going to be better.

If you're building off the premise that technology is going to go backwards in the future you may want to rethink this. It's never happened in history.

I don't think you don't understand what I'm saying. Technology and performance will improve in the future, yes, BUT, not every car is going to be super fast because not everyone WANTS a fast car. There will be a market for slower commuter cars designed to do one thing: commute. The base model Tesla Model 3 for example, while certainly not a "slow" car, is not a supercar. The 2035 Nissan Leaf isn't going to be an 800 horsepower monster. Do you get what I'm saying? I'm not saying the cars will get worse, I'm saying that not every car in existence is going to be built for fast accelerations like the Model S.

But you said the hardware can take it. That's what everyone said, and I tend to agree.

To a point. Or a certain amount of time. It is possible to overpower a motor to produce way more horsepower than normal, but only for a few seconds until the motor overheats. Continuous rating VS peak rating. But to reliably get significantly more power out of a car (gas or electric) for any extended amount of time, you will need to swap out stock components for higher rated components. Again, the software of a car can only work with what the hardware can provide. If you replace the stock hardware with better hardware, you are now able to go faster. But if you exceed the limit of said hardware, that's when you'll start blowing stuff up.

Because they cost a lot more more money!

And this is what I'm saying. It shouldn't cost that much more to have a Ludicrious mode.

If it doesn't today, it won't in the future. Tesla has established this as a fact. Other manufacturers will undoubtedly follow suit. Because that's how the market has always worked.

Yes, it doesn't cost much to add different driving modes to any car (eco, cruise, sport, sport+, whatever) since it is just software. But not every car is going to be able to be as fast as a Tesla because not every car is going to have a 600+ horsepower dual motor system. And again, speed costs money. You want to go faster? You have to pay more. Better motors cost more money. Better batteries cost more money. It's not just as simple as coding in a new driving mode. You need the hardware to make it happen.

So just assume for a minute I'm right, every EV comes with a sport mode that basically draws the max safe amperage from the battery pack. What are the modifications you can see people doing?

The same types of modifications we talked about before. Swap in better components that can draw even more amperage. Pretty much every modern ICE car has different driving modes, and obviously people modify cars today. Ludicrous mode is nothing but a driving mode. But let's say you take your Tesla, add higher performance components, the car is going to be able to go faster than it would stock. That's a performance modification. I'm not sure what's so difficult to understand...

 

[Punx0r]

I know the reason I'm not driving a Chiron is trunk space.

No, it's because even if you were given the car for free you couldn't afford to run it. Performance costs. EV's are better than ICEs in being able to burst high power at lower cost and efficiency hit, but there's no free lunch.

Cheap, fast, reliable. Pick any two...

 

[Punx0r]

No they're going to be better.

If you're building off the premise that technology is going to go backwards in the future you may want to rethink this. It's never happened in history.

It certainly has. 50 years ago if you could fly on a commercial aeroplane at Mach 2. Fast forward to the futuristic 21st century and even the wealthy are stuck flying subsonic. Efficiency and lower fares turned out to be what was more important. Boring, mundane, practical considerations. Technology doesn't automatically always trend towards ever-greater speed/power/performance.

Nuclear-powered spaceships never became a thing despite the phenomenal increase in performance they would have offered.

 

[furcifer]

The same types of modifications we talked about before. Swap in better components that can draw even more amperage. Pretty much every modern ICE car has different driving modes, and obviously people modify cars today. Ludicrous mode is nothing but a driving mode. But let's say you take your Tesla, add higher performance components, the car is going to be able to go faster than it would stock. That's a performance modification. I'm not sure what's so difficult to understand...

It's pointless to draw more amps if you can't stick the tires. EV's ALREADY have this problem. It's like the number one problem with EV's. A LEAF can smoke the tires. THAT'S THE MAXIMUM.

This is what I don't understand. You don't need to do anything to an EV to get it come unstuck. Besides remove all of the programming of course.

Bigger motor, same problem. Bigger wires, same problem. Bigger battery, same problem (unless it's physically bigger). Sticky tires, that's a solution but consult your local constabulary on that.

The only area for improvement is adding traction motors to the non drive wheels. I don't see much of that happening. It's hard enough to design a vehicle with traction motors, let alone try and retrofit them onto a car into the electrical system, and program them.

So what's the point? You're going to add $5K worth of parts you can't use to do what anyone can do by flipping a button? It doesn't make sense.

 

[furcifer]

Cheap, fast, reliable. Pick any two...

Ahhh, but there's the rub, you can have all three with an EV. At least in comparison to ICE's. They're not cheap, but you don't have to pay more to get the full potential. With the added benefit of being able to turn it off the 99% of the time you're not using it.

There's absolutely no reason not to have a mode that utilizes the battery and the motor to the fullest. None.

 

[furcifer]

Technology doesn't automatically always trend towards ever-greater speed/power/performance.

But that's exactly what I said. It's probably going to tend towards efficiency. I said that my very first post in this thread.


Furthermore, they'd still be running supersonics if they could turn them on with a flip of a button. It would just cost customers more to use the feature.

 

[billvon]

And the Raptor is the flagship $70K 450hp model. Because that's what everyone wants, a "tuned" F-150. How many customers walk into a Ford dealership and say "I don't want a new Raptor, it won't last with all that fancy hp, give me a base model"?

Most of them.

Most people do not go to dealerships thinking "gee, I don't know how much money I have or what I want, just take my wallet and sell me something!" They walk in knowing what pretty much what they want. Often they check on line first to see what they cost. Salesmen try to dissuade them from that, so that they purchase a higher profit margin vehicle. They usually fail.

 

[furcifer]

Most of them.

Most people do not go to dealerships thinking "gee, I don't know how much money I have or what I want, just take my wallet and sell me something!" They walk in knowing what pretty much what they want. Often they check on line first to see what they cost. Salesmen try to dissuade them from that, so that they purchase a higher profit margin vehicle. They usually fail.

That's totally true.

However, within the context of the discussion, you're saying if the Raptor was the same price at a base model people would take the base model.

Which is totally incorrect. If people get free floor mats and a tank of gas with their new car they lose their minds. If a salesman said "Gee, we don't have the F-150 you want, how about you take a Raptor instead? Can you live with the fact that it may wear out faster?" There isn't a person alive that would pass up that deal.

People are talking in this thread like every single car gets performance modifications. That's also a completely faulty premise. For the most part the only cars that people desire for modification are the ones where the manufacturer left something on the table. Whether that's a head, or a cam or a sleeved cylinder it's what most tuners look for. Some do it just for the fun of it. Most are looking to get bang for their buck as well. But seriously, look at where it is today. You have a 4 door sedan blowing the doors off of super cars 2,3 10 times the price. If you're looking for bang for your buck...

It's kind of a crappy thought. I'm really trying to find some niche where tuning can exist. Every time I think about I come back to this same conclusion. Honestly I don't think the modifications exist yet. About the best thing I can think of is something like solid rockets. Strap a couple of those babies on and turn up the amps, no issues with traction there.

 

[Hillhater]

Because most people don't buy performance cars.

Because they cost a lot more more money!

And this is what I'm saying. It shouldn't cost that much more to have a Ludicrious mode.

If it doesn't today, it won't in the future. Tesla has established this as a fact. Other manufacturers will undoubtedly follow suit. Because that's how the market has always worked.
So just assume for a minute I'm right, every EV comes with a sport mode that basically draws the max safe amperage from the battery pack. What are the modifications you can see people doing?

eta: and those Tesla batteries are range packs if I'm not mistaken. as far as I know they have the same peak power.

No, Tesla Mod S battery packs are not all the same.
You cannot have the “performance” options on a “standard” car because it has a smaller pack capacity.
That LR pack upgrade costs money ($14 k) and another $16 k if you want them to include the ability to use that added “Performance” mode.
Then there is your “just push a button “ Ludicrous mode,. That will add another $15 k
So , in order to have that “suits all performance situations” EV, you are paying an extra $45+ over the standard ModS
https://www.caranddriver.com/tesla/model-s
There is no “free lunch” even with an EV.
You either pay the manufacturers asking price for the performance options , or you find an aftermarket “specialist” who can offer something different.
Incidentally, there have always been manufacturer options for “push button” performance upgrades on ICE’s.
Chev had a Corvette in the ‘90’s with its (key locked ?) performance mode, whilst even earlier , Ford had a “Cosworth Seirra” with a “Track” switch that literally doubled the power.

 

[SquidBonez]

It's pointless to draw more amps if you can't stick the tires. EV's ALREADY have this problem. It's like the number one problem with EV's. A LEAF can smoke the tires. THAT'S THE MAXIMUM.

There's electric cars with 1000+ horsepower - way more than a Leaf. It's all in the tires/pedal management. A Leaf can spin tires, yes, but so what? So can your grandmother's Camry. This doesn't have anything to do with whether or not people will modify their cars. If I could get my Leaf to put out 300 horsepower, it would by all accounts be a faster car.

This is what I don't understand. You don't need to do anything to an EV to get it come unstuck. Besides remove all of the programming of course.

Again, same could apply to a Mustang or Challenger or any moderately powerful car. People still modify them. Sure, electric cars don't just have a lot of torque - it's an EXCEPTIONAL amount of torque, but still, this has nothing to do with whether or not people will modify them. The car will still be faster. Which is the point of modifying it.

The only area for improvement is adding traction motors to the non drive wheels. I don't see much of that happening. It's hard enough to design a vehicle with traction motors, let alone try and retrofit them onto a car into the electrical system, and program them.

Yeah I don't think we'll see a lot of that. Perhaps taking an existing AWD powertrain and putting it into a different car, but not trying to splice it into an additional system. That just seems like way too much effort if not impossible.

So what's the point? You're going to add $5K worth of parts you can't use to do what anyone can do by flipping a button? It doesn't make sense.

Once again, changing software can only get you so far. It isn't a supplement for changing hardware. If I took a stock Leaf and reprogrammed it to be as fast as possible, it still wouldn't perform as well as a Leaf with an aftermarket inverter, batteries, the whole 9 yards. Add better hardware, you can go faster than a stock car, no matter what "buttons you flip". It really isn't much different than an ICE car. Take two identical cars, one with just a tune, everything else stock, and another with a tune, intake, exhaust, valve springs, etc, and the latter car will be faster because it's HARDWARE allows it to be. Again, I don't see why this is a controversial point. Better parts = better performance potential.

 

[furcifer]

No, Tesla Mod S battery packs are not all the same.
You cannot have the “performance” options on a “standard” car because it has a smaller pack capacity.
That LR pack upgrade costs money ($14 k) and another $16 k if you want them to include the ability to use that added “Performance” mode.
Then there is your “just push a button “ Ludicrous mode,. That will add another $15 k
So , in order to have that “suits all performance situations” EV, you are paying an extra $45+ over the standard ModS
https://www.caranddriver.com/tesla/model-s
There is no “free lunch” even with an EV.
You either pay the manufacturers asking price for the performance options , or you find an aftermarket “specialist” who can offer something different.
Incidentally, there have always been manufacturer options for “push button” performance upgrades on ICE’s.
Chev had a Corvette in the ‘90’s with its (key locked ?) performance mode, whilst even earlier , Ford had a “Cosworth Seirra” with a “Track” switch that literally doubled the power.

You're talking across model years. Plus Tesla came right out and said the price of the option was inflated to fund development of the Model 3.

And again, it's just a press of a button if you have the battery pack to support it. Tesla enables what mode the battery pack will support. So will every other car manufacturer.

The bottleneck is at the battery. If you think anyone is going to order a $20K battery from China to put into their Tesla to get 2.8s 0-60 times...well I wouldn't hold my breath.

There have been tons of ICE's that has been restricted. I don't know about the Vette, but if memory serves the other one was a gimmick. It was intended to "lock out the kids". It was an appeal to men that they could have a tuned car that their kids could still drive. There's never been a performance car that's been "locked out" to save on wear and tear!

 

[furcifer]

Once again, changing software can only get you so far. It isn't a supplement for changing hardware. If I took a stock Leaf and reprogrammed it to be as fast as possible, it still wouldn't perform as well as a Leaf with an aftermarket inverter, batteries, the whole 9 yards. Add better hardware, you can go faster than a stock car, no matter what "buttons you flip". It really isn't much different than an ICE car. Take two identical cars, one with just a tune, everything else stock, and another with a tune, intake, exhaust, valve springs, etc, and the latter car will be faster because it's HARDWARE allows it to be. Again, I don't see why this is a controversial point. Better parts = better performance potential.

You keep talking about the LEAF, It's been out for almost a decade. There's no modifications yet. And there never will be.

eta: and once again the hardware is there. we've established the motor can handle it. we've established the drive train needs to in order to launch. we've established the wires need to in order to launch. we're left with the very expensive battery that only the factory has. maybe. hopefully they become more modular, but until they do it's not even worth talking about.

I think you're forgetting that EV's have been engineered today. You keep comparing them to ICE's of the past. Have you even looked at a Tesla? Not the outside, the guts. Everything is engineered to fit perfectly. You can barely get your hand in let alone stick your head in.

I'm pointing this out because most people that are into performance mods prefer older cars with room. And displacement because that's where you can make performance gains.

So you also have to consider the technical aspect of performing modifications. It's just another reason why you won't see very extensive modifications to EV's. It's still going to be more fun and enjoyable to work on ICE's.

 

[Hillhater]

No, Tesla Mod S battery packs are not all the same.
You cannot have the “performance” options on a “standard” car because it has a smaller pack capacity.
That LR pack upgrade costs money ($14 k) and another $16 k if you want them to include the ability to use that added “Performance” mode.
Then there is your “just push a button “ Ludicrous mode,. That will add another $15 k
So , in order to have that “suits all performance situations” EV, you are paying an extra $45+ over the standard ModS
https://www.caranddriver.com/tesla/model-s
There is no “free lunch” even with an EV.
You either pay the manufacturers asking price for the performance options , or you find an aftermarket “specialist” who can offer something different.
Incidentally, there have always been manufacturer options for “push button” performance upgrades on ICE’s.
Chev had a Corvette in the ‘90’s with its (key locked ?) performance mode, whilst even earlier , Ford had a “Cosworth Seirra” with a “Track” switch that literally doubled the power.

You're talking across model years. Plus Tesla came right out and said the price of the option was inflated to fund development of the Model 3.

No, no confusion over model years......
Why dont you check for yourself. This is the latest situation..

New Tesla Model S Options

Now Tesla is removing this software-locked option just a month into starting to sell it and it is replacing it with “standard” battery pack on the Model S for 270 miles of range.

Again, part of the harmonization with the Model 3 strategy is to stop disclosing the energy capacity of the battery pack, but it is the same range that the Model S was getting back when Tesla was producing a 85 kWh version.

This new version of the Model S now starts at $79,000 before incentives:
Tesla has also made some other important price changes to the other versions of the car.

With the previous change, the Model S 100D became the ‘Model S Extended Range’ and started at $93,000.

Now it’s called Model S ‘Long Range’ and it starts at $83,000 – a $10,000 difference with seemingly no feature change.

The same thing happened to the Performance version of the Model S, which started $112,000 before the price changes yesterday.

Today, it starts at $99,000 and you can add the Ludicrous package for $15,000 and shave half a second off your 0 to 60 mph acceleration:

https://electrek.co/2019/03/01/tesla-model-s-model-x-prices-options/

Does it matter what excuse Tesla gives for their pricing ?...they will charge what the think the market will pay, and change it at will, as they keep demonstrating....there is no cost/benefit justification in this.

And again, it's just a press of a button if you have the battery pack to support it. Tesla enables what mode the battery pack will support. So will every other car manufacturer.

The bottleneck is at the battery. If you think anyone is going to order a $20K battery from China to put into their Tesla to get 2.8s 0-60 times...well I wouldn't hold my breath.
......!

Providing you pay the upgrade charges...$45k over standard cost.!
Why China ?...there are plenty of Tesla packs in Wreckers yards.
Several private owners have already done their own Tesla pack swaps to the higher capacity versions.

.....
There have been tons of ICE's that has been restricted. I don't know about the Vette, but if memory serves the other one was a gimmick. It was intended to "lock out the kids". It was an appeal to men that they could have a tuned car that their kids could still drive. There's never been a performance car that's been "locked out" to save on wear and tear!

You got that wrong also..
The Vette was the one with the “kids lock out” switch.
The ford was far from a gimmic, ..
The Seirra Cosworth was one of the most successful “Production Race” cars of the ‘80s where you could litterally drive it from the showroom, do the shopping, then take it to the track ,flick the switch and instantly win the production race class.

 

[furcifer]

Providing you pay the upgrade charges...$45k over standard cost.!
Why China ?...there are plenty of Tesla packs in Wreckers yards.
Several private owners have already done their own Tesla pack swaps to the higher capacity versions.

OK, so all the tuners will be hanging out at the wreckers waiting for higher model cars to come in with battery packs.

You seem to be making my point. Tesla provides the fastest car possible with the battery you have, and that's all it takes.(In fact the mode is in the car, it's just locked out). So will everyone else in the future.

As for pricing, there's no competition so it's to be expected. Over the next few years things are going to get tight around the old Tesla plant.

eta: I'll have to look at the Crosworth. If this turns out to be a race car that was produced exclusivey to make "production" requirements for racing the meh. I mean it sounds interesting, just not as it pertains to this discussion. I love those sleeper cars. There's an Audi Wagon from the 90's that had the turbo charged 5 cyclinder that you could bump the boost up to something like 700hp. It was just an oddball car, one of the ones the engineers got their kicks from making.

 

[billvon]

However, within the context of the discussion, you're saying if the Raptor was the same price at a base model people would take the base model.

Of course not. They'd want the Raptor, everything else being equal.

Which is totally incorrect. If people get free floor mats and a tank of gas with their new car they lose their minds. If a salesman said "Gee, we don't have the F-150 you want, how about you take a Raptor instead? Can you live with the fact that it may wear out faster?" There isn't a person alive that would pass up that deal.

Well, that's not true at all.

I'll list some of the people who have bought an F-150 over the past ten years or so that I know.

One wanted one to get a truck to haul people back who landed off the DZ. To him, high performance was a minus. Low cost and low maintenance were the big issues.

One wanted a truck for his solar business. The biggest issue was how rugged the thing was, and how long it would last with Tony Bagodonuts driving it and a load of tools in the back.

One guy was at least a millionaire and wanted a dually. He just wanted the cool look, and ended up buying an F-450 because he could get the cool four wheels in back.

One guy wanted a truck to commute 12 miles to work, because reasons. The bed has never had so much as a sheet of plywood in it - but he seems happy with it.

Car companies want to sell to all of the above people. And none of them wanted a Raptor.