In your opinion what would be the ultimate DIY ebike build for 2024?

[hillslayer@]

Dual motor mid-drive plus direct drive hub will give you stump pulling bottom end and efficient cruising and you can stick with 48 volts and still perform great. This is probably the most economical way to have the best of both without having to invest in high-end hub motor and batteries.

 

[classicalgas]

Downhill?

On the level. according to this calculator...http://www.kreuzotter.de/english/eindex.htm

 

[gromike]

Have you ever ridden an ebike with a power meter and a speedometer and looked at it when you're going 35mph on the level?

 

[BiggKidd]

This might be an option for the custom frame bike build I sort of have in mind.

26 inch 2000W ~ 5000W high power rear hub motor - bike conversion kit

 

[docw009]

I'm trying to answer the question..."can you build a full suspension street bike capable of 35 mph for under a grand?"

It's looking likely, starting with a good quality 20 year old mountain bike off craiglist ($350 ). Add aTSDZ2 kit( $300 shipped) and a 3d printed dock for a Ryobi 40v yard tool battery (dock, $45, battery, used $60). I splurged on a salvaged 3spd SA drum brake laced with 18g ss spokes into a double wall rim (complete, shipped, for $125) A pair of used street tires ($50) left me with room to buy an Ebay cafe racer fairing, to tuck away all the wires and cables. First test hit 29 mph pedaling, I need to drop a tooth or two on the rear sprocket, couldn't pedal any faster.

You're doing that on 36V? Gotta see a pic of that fairing.

 

[TlfT]

Yes VESC currently supports 2WD traction control in addition to the obvious of controlling both motors with 1 throttle and adjusting the power levels individually, I use it on my 2WD fatbike and it works pretty well but it is somewhat rudimentary. Both motors and drivelines need to be identical and all it does is reduce power to a motor if it starts spinning faster than the other. As for how amazing the bike is, for what it's designed for it's pretty amazing but 2WD is only really useful for certain things. On most bikes it's a waste and will probably make the bike worse but a bike build for specific terrain it's a different story. Mine is a fat bike with the largest studded tires I could fit, tons of power pumped through two Bafang G062s and it just plows through snow like crazy. Like 8in+ of fresh snow up steep climbs no problem. Is that the type of special results you were looking for?

Traction control is one thing. I'm thinking of all you could do by changing power levels relative to things like the lean of the bike and the angle of the wheels relative to each other. Dual hub motors, electronic sensors and programmable controllers open the door for all kinds of experimentation. I can only imagine what it would feel like changing front and rear power relative to steer/counter-steer, bike lean, apex sensing etc etc etc.

With some elite coding, you could create a very unique experience. If you had it to the point it was smooth and intuitive, that would be something special.

We're talking dream bikes, so I am dreaming

 

[classicalgas]

Have you ever ridden an ebike with a power meter and a speedometer and looked at it when you're going 35mph on the level?

The only ebike I own that will do 35, and has a watt meter weighs, 125 lbs and has 4"wide semi knobby tires running 30 psi and an upright riding position. It pulls about 1300w at 35mph.

The bike I'm building is a third as heavy, two and half inch narrower slicks, running twice the tire pressure, and a crouched riding position, and a fairing. The power available, between me and the motor, calculates out to almost 1100 w. (briefly)

Maybe the calculator I linked is way off. Do you know that for sure?

 

[gromike]

That' impressive. My experience at 35mph (at full charge) is on a bike that weighs 50 lbs. with 38mm tires pulling 1200w.

As far as a tdz2 running at 36v I built one. It still sits, as being so underwhelming it's not worth the weight of the motor to power the bike. Someday I'll build a 48v battery and see how that works, though programing a tsdz2 is a whole other can of worms.

At the moment I have other windmills to tilt my lance towards.

 

[biphaeboh]

I have Jones LWB HDe with a Bafang BBSHD. This is a great combo. Mine's setup to climb steep off-road hills but still has enough speed for me to get across town to my favorite bandit trails. The components on the prebuilt Jones LWB are very good where they need to be. The frame is designed to fit BBS_ _ motors so it shifts to all nine cogs well. I mounted the BBSHD from a previous too-small bike and taller BMX handlebars. I also installed the Jones Shrader tubeless valve stems and Stan's Tire Sealant. Going tubeless took twenty minutes and has been trouble free thanks to rims being pre-taped and the amazing 29er x 3.25 tires. The current Black Friday sale makes it even easier to get an ebike that is designed around a mid-drive but with no proprietary motor/battery/controller.

Front hub-drives are usually for making the cheapest simplest bike or for sloppy/ sandy conditions. In over a century of powered two-wheel cycles front-drive systems have sometimes existed but never got any wide acceptance for good reasons.

I like my Jones w/BBSHD but since the OP asked, my dream build for 2025 would be a rear hub-drive rated for around 5000 watts, 52-72 volt, good quality display, controller and battery.

I have an LWB HD/e with a Photon. I like the torque sensing. I have a BBSHD on a Rocky Mountain Blizzard fatbike, but it spends way too much time in the shop for various reasons.
I like the Jones a lot I think my ultimate ebike would be a Jones with a torque sensing mid drive and a Rohloff hub.

 

[yantra yatra]

I went up a 7% grade at 50-55mph for a few miles on a leafbike 1.5kw 4T on 72v RC Lipos in ~2014.
The motor was vented though. Today, you would probably use ferrofluid and hubsinks to achieve the same thing.

The motor seems to get happier the more volts you throw at it.

Amazing that it seems like ebike motor tech has not particularly improved in the last ten years. When uptake and development in other fields have gone through the roof.

That is impressive performance. At 52v with 80-100amps+ available, would it be better to go for the 4t hand wound for extra speed? looks like it will top out around 65km/h otherwise (which is prob fine). Field weakening is the other option for more speed I guess.

 

[neptronix]

Amazing that it seems like ebike motor tech has not particularly improved in the last ten years. When uptake and development in other fields have gone through the roof.

I know.. us DD enjoyers have been waiting for an improvement in technology for a long time.
The Grin All Axle motors are the generational leap we needed a long time ago.

But they don't have a 35 or 30mm wide motor. So there's a hole in the market.

That is impressive performance. At 52v with 80-100amps+ available, would it be better to go for the 4t hand wound for extra speed? looks like it will top out around 65km/h otherwise (which is prob fine). Field weakening is the other option for more speed I guess.

If you have a pack that powerful, then the 4T will be a lot of fun and the motor likes running at high RPM so the efficiency loss of field weakening won't be too bad.

Consider using ferrofluid if you find yourself doing 40mph for extended periods of time ( miles ). Unvented, mine would handle 5-10 miles of that ( in a tuck and with frantic pedaling ) before getting close to the danger zone. Ferrofluid might make the motor capable of 45mph continuous or more.

 

[ebike4healthandfitness]

Amazing that it seems like ebike motor tech has not particularly improved in the last ten years. When uptake and development in other fields have gone through the roof.

I know.. us DD enjoyers have been waiting for an improvement in technology for a long time.

We are at the point where Statorade can be sealed within the motor (e.g. GRIN V2 onward) and thus we don't need the large side plates for heat dissipation:



Therefore the next generation of DD motors can have wider stators with smaller stator diameters. They will be much lighter because of this without losing power.

 

[Ocelot]

Grin's recommendation for a fat tired fat bike is their all-axle max45 slow wind with a 72 volt battery and phaserunner. this allows good torque without passing to much current through the motor connector - and yet good speeds

 

[MxusMick]

The WEIGHT of 2 separate motors on 1 bicycle with a battery pack or 2, would be totally unacceptable in terms of WEIGHT, PRICE, and normal application unless RAMBO.