MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

[neptronix]

Sorry for the late reply.
There is no difference in the size of the controller when you use 4xxx FETs or 3xxx FETs.

As for the bike, i'm still awaiting grease from cell_man, not willing to experiment really with various greases.. if the axle rusts binds to the new cover plate again, i am boned.

Been riding on the DD for a while. Crushing amount of weight to carry up the stairs with 15AH of 15S... :|

 

[auraslip]

I miss lifepo4.

I like not having the bike get all soggy half way through the ride from the voltage drop. It's more like a gas vehicle in that the performance is strong right up till the end.

I miss being able to discharge the packs all the way to the end with out worrying about lifespan.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Lipo is the way to go, but I miss these things about lifepo4.

 

[amberwolf]

Well, you could get the A123 pouches.... :lol:

 

[neptronix]

I miss lifepo4.

I like not having the bike get all soggy half way through the ride from the voltage drop. It's more like a gas vehicle in that the performance is strong right up till the end.

I miss being able to discharge the packs all the way to the end with out worrying about lifespan.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Lipo is the way to go, but I miss these things about lifepo4.

Yeah but with lipo, the first half of the charge gets ya significantly more voltage It evens out, the end of the discharge is just kinda anticlimatic.
Run a bunch of even cheap stuff in parallel and the voltage drop at max amps is only a volt or two. Sag is a non-problem. On 20AH of 10S, i get 0.75V drop running it at 36a constant or ~1v of drop running it at 55a constant.

I discharge my packs down to about 5-10% SOC with no problems. You could go even further with a BMS; there's nothing stopping you from adding a BMS to lipo and getting the full capacity out of it without harm.

I like being able to carry my bike upstairs after a ride with 15AH of 15S and not have to worry about my left arm falling off

 

[veloman]

If you are running your bike at it's top speed, then I guess you would see a decrease in the last half of the pack. But for me, when I run lipo, I can't even use speed switch 3 because it's too fast. So when I'm at 80% DOD, the bike feels just as fast as it was in the beginning since I was never maxing it out. Yeah... I am 'overgeared' running too fast of a motor for the power output I have it set it.

 

[auraslip]

I would like a123 pouches. Probably would take up less room than lipo bricks too. I swear, all that extra wiring in lipo bricks takes up tons of room.

Probably for next build I'll try to disassemble lipo bricks to build a neater pack.

 

[neptronix]

Coupla ideas for you, since i faced this issue trying to get more than 8 lipo packs into my falconEV bag and ammo box ( which i later gave up on, but whatever )

Short parallel harness. This eliminates the spaghetti factor entirely. Not shown, but you need to put a wide nonconductive piece of material between the negative and positive of course . Mine's coated in like 6 layers of electrical tape on the outside.. been using this badboy for over a year. I won't make a parallel harness any other way now !!

Permanent serial connection... there you go. You just cut your wiring in half, lol.
Downside: you'll need a 10S - 12S charger to balance these now.. And you sure as hell better test these lipos to ensure that you don't have a bad cell.

I'm very happy with this configuration.

 

[neptronix]

Kinda off topic ( well, isn't that just a recurring theme with this thread ) but i ordered the rear 20in. golden motor.

Gonna drill giant cooling holes in the sucker and run a crapton of amps on it.
The MXUS motor is powerful but overheats too quick. Time for an updgrade!

Still waiting for cell_man to get back to me in regards to motor grease so that i can get the MAC back together..

 

[Racer_X]

Neptronix, I think you should get alot more than motor grease from cell_man. Why? Because I can not think of a single person that has sold more Mac 500w kits than you with your killer reviews. IMHO you should get a whole new wheel. Even Myself am contemplating a 8t 500w geared kit from the Cell Man, just looking for the right bike.

The 20" golden motor is that the MPIII? Time to start a new thread for that one.

OK here is another question, What kind of range can one expect with Geared MAC 500w and 12s 10ah? Thanks in advanced.

 

[o00scorpion00o]

Hi David,

I think you should really get an 18 fet controller for the pie, I'm at the limits of the 12 fet at around 3500 watts, and the pie wants more, she's a hungry beast!

Maybe you should get some of that red protective paint if you are going to drill the covers, install a temp sensor and get a few spare halls, just in case!

I think it will be fairly slow in a 20" wheel ?


Racer_X

I can get 25 miles form the mac on 60 volts 10 ah LiPo @20mph no peddling and a few hills, actually that was on 8.5ah usable because I have a weak brick!

I'm riding on 1.6 Continental sport tyres and that makes a big difference, especially pumped to 90 psi!


Mark

 

[Racer_X]

Thanks o00scorpion00o, 25miles on 60v 10ah! that is is really good. Most I get is around 14 - 15 miles with my 48v 10ah ping and a DD motor.
How does 16s feel for power and reliability? How fast does that take you? I know David ran into some issues when he ran 72v.
I am just wondering if I could run something like 18s without the risk of burning something out in the motor.

 

[o00scorpion00o]

Hi

Thanks o00scorpion00o, 25miles on 60v 10ah! that is is really good. Most I get is around 14 - 15 miles with my 48v 10ah ping and a DD motor.
How does 16s feel for power and reliability? How fast does that take you? I know David ran into some issues when he ran 72v.
I am just wondering if I could run something like 18s without the risk of burning something out in the motor.

Yep again that's at 20 mph!

I don't recommend running the mac above 48-52 volts or a total of 2kw, and that's still pretty powerful for the mac!

The problem is not the gears these days but the clutch and keyway. The newer controller is easier on the clutch but I was running 3.5 kw through it and while I intend to do it again and again, it's not recommended, it sure is loads of fun. There is no comparing dd motors to geared hubs like the mac!

Anyway I get a max of 38-40 mph on 16S LiPo. by the way I have the 320 rpm motor, that's the 8T

 

[neptronix]

Neptronix, I think you should get alot more than motor grease from cell_man. Why? Because I can not think of a single person that has sold more Mac 500w kits than you with your killer reviews. IMHO you should get a whole new wheel.

:lol: :lol: I'll let cell_man know that, see how that goes over, haha
And the guy from FalconEV said that his business on the bags had a major spike too, last time i called him.
I have noticed a good amount of builds that are similar to mine in recent times.

I'm all about investigating into products that are under-appreciated and are a good value. I want to see more people on eBikes and making this hobby / form of transport more affordable is a personal goal of mine, as an environmentally concerned person.

BTW the magic pie i ordered is the MP2. I called Gary from ebikes.ca on the phone and he said that the MP3 doesn't put out any additional power over the MP2. So i figured why not stick to the proven motor..

As for range, it really depends on the turn count of your motor and if you're pedaling or not.
On the 8 turn ( 25mph on 36v ) motor, with lipo i could go 20 miles on 10ah if i pedaled and the terrain was only mildly hilly.
A lifepo4 pack like the ping is going to sag some and give you lower voltage, so you're gonna get a bit less mileage.
But really, it's more efficient than any DD i've tried..

Scorpion: i agree with you on the 18FET. I am going to run 72v at 55A, that's 4000w. We'll see how that goes.
The red coating is a good idea. I do live in a super dry desert climate now though, so i think i should be able to run the motor as is, drilled, for maximum heat shedding ability.

I think about 2000w peak is suitable for the MAC if you want it to survive long-term. The good thing about the MAC is that other bits and pieces will go before the windings do.

 

[o00scorpion00o]

Hi Dave,

4kw then 5kw and so on lol It's addictive isn't it ?

But 4kw on the pie will be fast. 72 volts should get you 40 mph, I got 35 mph with halls and 28-30 sensorless on 16S LiPo, I must fix those halls!

BTW will a 20" be slower, or do they have a faster wind in a 20" wheel ?

 

[neptronix]

I'm going to see how far the poor thing will go
I don't know about the speed. Not as if i have a selection of winding anyways.
I'm thinking it's 15-18mph on 36v.

 

[o00scorpion00o]

I'm going to see how far the poor thing will go
I don't know about the speed. Not as if i have a selection of winding anyways.
I'm thinking it's 15-18mph on 36v.

Well on a 52 volt ping I got 24 mph, but with the 120% setting on the infineons I could probably get 28mph, on 16S LiPo I get 28-30 on sensorless and 35mph with halls. So on a 20" that would be less, unless they have the windings different ? but I suppose the most important thing is to be able to get up without burning something!

Up the 16% grade on the slowest part of the climb I got 13 mph, totally bogged down so watch those temps, however the 20" wheel should be easier on the pie!

Interesting though was the fact I fried the halls on the way back down using regen all the way, was just too much heat, I should have let cool for much longer, the motor was still roasting in the back of the car for 40 mins!

Even more interesting is the pie III with the space to take water pipes out of the controller housing, even some kind of heat pipe heatsink like on cpu's, it would eliminate the need for a pump and coolant.

 

[stripedtuna]

Hi everyone,

I am not a fast reader, and didn't know how much i liked reading until finding the ES forum. I have spent the best part of today reading through this whole thread, and just wanted to say thanks for all the info, pleasure and experience gained.

I saw the dilemma with the inner bearing ring stuck on the Mac shaft.. Glad you got it off as such probs can be super frustrating. I saw a similar instance years ago with a car, and they used two techniques to get it off. (Protective gear worn of course) Sharp hit of heat using an oxy torch (concentrated and fairly quick) , right on the bearing ring. This served two purposes - metal expansion, and also strong heat serves well against rust. Then (with the ring backed onto a solid surface) they gave the ring a hit with a cold chisel where the length of the chisel blade ran in parralel to the shaft. This was not to cut the ring off, but to spread the metal of the ring, thus cutting a minor 'V' in the ring surface. They did this to 1) spread the metal thus making it shift from the shaft surface, and 2) it ever so slightly increased the diameter of the ring, while leaving the shaft the same. The ring then just slid off the shaft, as it was now a loose fit. (loose as in no longer stuck) .. Thats what i remembered anyway.. For memory the heat was also required before the chisel hit, due to the metal being so hard.

cheers,

Ed.

p.s. first ebike,first Mac on order. Pretty much all parts from the trusty cell_man, except the Cylcle Analyst. Chosen design heavily influenced by builds by you guys.. ta..

 

[Racer_X]

Another MAC 500w sold thanks to Neptronix. Good for you stripedtuna, I am sure you won't be dissapointed.

 

[neptronix]

Mr. Tuna, i'm glad i could provide some direction. I'm finally very happy with my setup and i'm sure you will be too.

My 'unpaid sales rep. of the year' trophy from cell_man should be coming any day now.

 

[stripedtuna]

Lol..

your videos do give confidence to the first time Mac buyer, that the Mac is indeed a worthy motor..

I was just looking at a thread about a guy with some probs, but he was running in excess of 3000 watts i think.. Looking forward to someone posting on his thread, a structured, ordered list of things to check.. So starting at one end of the circuit, and progressing through, testing peice by peice till he finds the fault.

I reckon the guy is lucky he bought from Cell_man, cos at least he will be assisted till the issue is sorted, and wont be left to fend totally for himself.

ANyway,, I cant wait till my Mac comes.. I still goto make some torque arms, and get a kill switch (with status light) .. I am getting the 8T, 12 fet, with 4011's and triangle battery.. pretty much the whole kit and kaboodle.. so i might set some limits in the CA to begin with, just to be sure..

Oh lastly, if you were to buy a controller tester, which one would you get? would the ones on ebay do the trick for the controller i am buying?

Thanks again...

Ed.

 

[Racer_X]

This might start to stray off topic but as far as controller tester, most people here use Lyen ebike motor/controller hall/phase/throttle tester.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=20413

 

[cell_man]

Neptronix, I think you should get alot more than motor grease from cell_man. Why? Because I can not think of a single person that has sold more Mac 500w kits than you with your killer reviews. IMHO you should get a whole new wheel.

:lol: :lol: I'll let cell_man know that, see how that goes over, haha
And the guy from FalconEV said that his business on the bags had a major spike too, last time i called him.
I have noticed a good amount of builds that are similar to mine in recent times.

I'm all about investigating into products that are under-appreciated and are a good value. I want to see more people on eBikes and making this hobby / form of transport more affordable is a personal goal of mine, as an environmentally concerned person.

Believe me I do appreciate David (Neptronix) and we are friends that chat occasionally. David hasn't looked for anything from me even though he has and still does support me a lot, but of course I'm gonna be nice to those that are good to me. I discovered some time back that others can help me to grow my business and products far better than I ever can by blowing my own trumpet. I have been lucky enough to have lots of folks on ES that recommend me and speak well of me. Every time I see that, it still kind of surprises me and can knock me out of a grumpy day....

Thanks again David and thanks everybody for your support. Have a great Christmas and all of that good stuff

 

[Racer_X]

You are a fair man Cell_Man I will be ordering a MAC 500w 8t soon.

Believe me I do appreciate David (Neptronix) and we are friends that chat occasionally. David hasn't looked for anything from me even though he has and still does support me a lot, but of course I'm gonna be nice to those that are good to me. I discovered some time back that others can help me to grow my business and products far better than I ever can by blowing my own trumpet. I have been lucky enough to have lots of folks on ES that recommend me and speak well of me. Every time I see that, it still kind of surprises me and can knock me out of a grumpy day....

Thanks again David and thanks everybody for your support. Have a great Christmas and all of that good stuff

 

[t44florida]

Best wired bat box I've seen. Looks well organized!

 

[neptronix]

I got the 20in. Magic Pie today. ho - ly - crap that rim is wide.

Fit a 2.3" tire to it, which just barely extends out of the edges of the rim.
It also makes cool noises when spinning up

Pretty excited over here.