Mid drive chain efficiency and longevity tips

[neptronix]

Not to insult anyone, but this wax business seems much more involved than i expected.
I'm glad we had this discussion because this is going to be informative to future generations.

The more i read this thread, the more i want to go back to my original plan of just using the best lubricant i can buy. And maybe constructing/buying a dust shield to help keep the lubricant performance up to par in my dusty environment.

When i get a couple bucks together, i'm going to do some tests on my dual/triple chain setups.

 

[BlueSwordM]

Not to insult anyone, but this wax business seems much more involved than i expected.
I'm glad we had this discussion because this is going to be informative to future generations.

The more i read this thread, the more i want to go back to my original plan of just using the best lubricant i can buy. And maybe constructing/buying a dust shield to help keep the lubricant performance up to par in my dusty environment.

When i get a couple bucks together, i'm going to do some tests on my dual/triple chain setups.

Oh, it's all because we're all people who love hyper optimizations.

Just get some Silca Hot Melt + 1 endurance chip now since it's on sale and let it rip.

 

[lnanek]

It's true that single gear bikes and IGH bikes can often take advantage of a full coverage chain case to keep the road grit out. Maybe wet lube not so bad then.

Think I'd rather graduate to belts than go back to wet lube, though. Too many weekends wasted scrubbing grit out of my drivetrain.

 

[hillslayer@]

Not to insult anyone, but this wax business seems much more involved than i expected.
I'm glad we had this discussion because this is going to be informative to future generations.

The more i read this thread, the more i want to go back to my original plan of just using the best lubricant i can buy. And maybe constructing/buying a dust shield to help keep the lubricant performance up to par in my dusty environment.

When i get a couple bucks together, i'm going to do some tests on my dual/triple chain setups.

It's really simple if you don't let the nerds who think you have to do it a certain way effect the fact that it's really simple.

 

[n00b]

Is PTFE a "forever chemical?"

Probably.
It doesn't take much to make things very slick and keep them that way.
I'd say the PTFE waxing is worth it. A little crockpot and some candles and a coathanger and IMO, it works
really good. Just tested a chain with a finger swipe today, pretty clean.

 

[n00b]

Just clean your chain with a wet rag and you'll be fine.

Hot wax is wonderful specifically because the hot wax is the contamination reset.

Since wax by itself attracts very little debris, even if you don't clean your chain, your wax pot will stay usable for tens of thousands of kilometers.

For reference, my original paraffin wax puck that I still use for my family's other bikes is still quite clean.

In the worst case scenario, just put your chain in a pot of hot water (80-90C) and all of the dirt and wax will be removed, a complete reset.

Boil a chain long enough and the rust will turn to bluing. Also works for rusty nuts and bolts.
Do not use something you're ever going to cook in again. And you really need 2 pots.
One for the stuff and one that's going in after the main boils some water off.
I actually did an old rusty chain like that not long ago, came out pretty good.
It takes a while. 2-3 hrs.
I de-rusted it then cleaned and waxed it. :dunno:
I clean with gas then 90% alcohol.

 

[n00b]

Maybe get a stainless steel chain?

Link to one?

 

[BlueSwordM]

I've finally finished my 800km test of my 89% fully refined 145F/63C paraffin wax + 10% ucrystalline wax + 1% tungsten disulfide; it's now time for a review.

In summary, it's been great. Compared to the 600km test I did with the 94+5+1% WS2 mix I did previously, this one truly flakes far less and sticks like mad to metal.

This mixture sticks so well to metal that on the previous 2 waxings, I had a thin layer of wax on all of the sideplates, and some sideplates had rather thick layers of waxes. I wish I'd taken some pictures before installing it on the bike because it was marvelous to see. A side effect of this is excellent wet performance: barely any rust on the first and 2nd event, and on 3rd event with my 2nd waxing, no rust whatsoever because I cooled my chain super rapidly on the 2nd waxing (faster cooling = smaller crystal formation).

Furthermore, it's clear that the smaller crystals from microcrystalline wax make the chain more durable: I gained an extra 30% in mileage before the chain started getting annoying to hear shifting.

I'll probably try a 20% ucrystalline mix for the winter to make the wax softer for the lower temperatures, but for now, I'm satisfied.

I'm now on a new blend: 84% fully refined 145F/63C paraffin wax + 10% ucrystalline wax + 5% PE wax + 1% tungsten disulfide.
Spoiler alert: very mild flaking and super long break in time, hard coating that can somehow rebound.

 

[hillslayer@]

I have my on going test of 3 years of pure Gulf wax no wear to speak of, just rewax when you think it needs it . If my chain gets wet just drop it in the pot.

 

[Comrade]

Not to insult anyone, but this wax business seems much more involved than i expected.

The thing with this wax vs. wet lube discussion is that it's not like discussing if it's better to be a man or a woman, or better to have a piece of your wiener chopped off, or not, at birth. The people that say wax is easier have actually used wet lube, some for decades, before going to wax. It is objectively less overall effort to keep a waxed drivetrain clean than to keep a wet lube drivetrain clean.

 

[harrisonpatm]

The thing with this wax vs. wet lube discussion is that it's not like discussing if it's better to be a man or a woman, or better to have a piece of your wiener chopped off, or not, at birth. The people that say wax is easier have actually used wet lube, some for decades, before going to wax. It is objectively less overall effort to keep a waxed drivetrain clean than to keep a wet lube drivetrain clean.

Surely there were less inappropriate comparisons you could have made to help get your point across.

 

[BlueSwordM]

I've finally finished my 800km test of my 89% fully refined 145F/63C paraffin wax + 10% ucrystalline wax + 1% tungsten disulfide; it's now time for a review.

For anyone interested in reproducing my results, I'll give you the materials and protocol.

-> Materials
1. Fully refined 145F/63C paraffin wax: https://www.kamapigment.com/produits-kama/cires/cire-de-paraffine-completement-raffinee-blanche.html
2. Microcrystalline wax: https://www.kamapigment.com/produits-kama/cires/cire-microcrystalline-no7.html
3. Tungsten disulfide: Just get it from any source that sells 0.5um WS2
4. Wax pot.
5. Milk frother.
6. Cardboard sheet in the shape of the wax pot.
7. 2x containers.
8. Coffee or scientific measuring paper; this is to avoid staining glassware with tungsten disulfide (WS2)
7. A weight scale.
8. Heating surface: an induction plate or a crockpot with temperature control is your best bet. An induction plate will melt the wax quickly, but a crockpot with external temperature control will possess very even heating. An electric hotplate also works, but requires manual intervention.


-> Protocol for making 300g of the wax blend

1. Create a 3cm diameter hole in your cardboard sheet; this is to create an opening for the milk frother to mix everything in.
2. Measure 267g of fully refined paraffin wax, 30g of the microcrystalline wax and 3g of WS2 using the containers and measuring paper respectively. If you want an easier blend to measure, you can always use 270g of the paraffin and 30g of microcrystalline since it doesn't matter at this scale.

3. Put the wax pot on the heating surface at low power and heat it up for 20s.
4. Transfer the paraffin wax to the wax pot and set the melting temperature to 85-90C. Wait for it to fully melt until proceeding with the next steps.
5. Transfer the microcrystalline wax into the wax pot, put the cardboard sheet on top of the wax pot and insert the milk frother through the hole created in the first step.

6. Push the milk frother until it touches the bottom of the pot; drag it back up a bit and you're ready to mix.
7. Turn on the milk frother and mix the wax for 20 seconds to get the added microcrystalline wax to fully melt.
8. Turn off the milk frother, remove the cardboard sheet alongside the milk frother and add the 3g of WS2 measure earlier.
9. Repeat step 6.
10. Turn on the milk frother and mix the tungsten disulfide for a minimum of 30 seconds to evenly spread the tungsten disulfide, ideally 60-120 seconds.

11. Turn off the milk frother and remove the tool while leaving the cardboard sheet on top of the wax; this is done to prevent any airborne particulates to contaminate the wax.
12. Remove the wax pot from the heater and leave the wax to solidify and cool.

You're now left with a blend of high performance DIY wax that can approach the performance of high end commercial blends.
Stay tuned for the next protocol that will be on how to optimally wax a clean chain.

 

[scianiac]

I wonder now, my wax has a small amount of oil in it just because one of the additives came in an oil carrier. This does soften the wax and probably makes the crystals smaller but I think in a worse way than the microcrystalline wax since it may also make the wax more prone to move around, softer in a bad way. I might add some PE to combat this but won't add it (oil) to future waxes. (Edit: ambiguous wording)

Has anybody tried waxing a 219 or similar chain? It's something I've been meaning to try but only recently have a drive that uses one. Speed will be higher but I think that won't be a huge issue since we still aren't taking crazy speeds here. I'm hoping it might make the chain very slightly quieter as well.

 

[BlueSwordM]

I wonder now, my wax has a small amount of oil in it just because one of the additives came in an oil carrier. This does soften the wax and probably makes the crystals smaller but I think in a worse way than the microcrystalline wax since it may also make the wax more prone to move around, softer in a bad way. I might add some PE to combat this but won't add it to future waxes.

Has anybody tried waxing a 219 or similar chain? It's something I've been meaning to try but only recently have a drive that uses one. Speed will be higher but I think that won't be a huge issue since we still aren't taking crazy speeds here. I'm hoping it might make the chain very slightly quieter as well.

Yep. Microcrystaline is mainly added there as a secondary wax to make the wax flake less (long chain branching) and adhered more to metal, not to make it softer.

It's why I added some PE wax into my latest blend, as it makes the wax behave almost ideally, which is very strange.

My PE wax blend has a weird behavior: when I try to dig in, it's initially difficult to do so and bounces back. If I apply more force, it does fail but without cracking.

 

[scianiac]

My PE wax blend has a weird behavior: when I try to dig in, it's initially difficult to do so and bounces back. If I apply more force, it does fail but without cracking.

Interesting, kinda makes sense it would act more like a plastic since the PE would make it more amorphous and less crystalline? What kind of PE did you use?

 

[BlueSwordM]

Interesting, kinda makes sense it would act more like a plastic since the PE would make it more amorphous and less crystalline? What kind of PE did you use?

I used this PE wax:

Polyethylene Wax

A synthetic wax often used as a processing agent or to improve surface properties. We offer both nonpolar polyethylene waxes and polar oxidized waxes.

carmelindustries.com

The only easily available source in Canada lmao.

 

[Zambam]

1. Fully refined 145F/63C paraffin wax: https://www.kamapigment.com/produits-kama/cires/cire-de-paraffine-completement-raffinee-blanche.html
2. Microcrystalline wax: https://www.kamapigment.com/produits-kama/cires/cire-microcrystalline-no7.html

They seem to ship to every country on earth except the US!

Found this https://www.michaels.com/product/jacquard-microcrystalline-wax-block1lb-492977964241911817
Melting temp listed but not hardness. What do you think? Will it do?

 

[BlueSwordM]

They seem to ship to every country on earth except the US!

Found this https://www.michaels.com/product/jacquard-microcrystalline-wax-block1lb-492977964241911817
Melting temp listed but not hardness. What do you think? Will it do?

It should work just fine.

As for why Kama stopped shipping to the, that's because of the current situation regarding US import taxes on things shipped to the US.

 

[Zambam]

5. Milk frother.

Is the Milk frother really necessary? If both ucrystalline and paraffin wax are above their melting points, wouldn't stirring with a spoon be sufficient or will they eventually separate?

 

[Zambam]

They seem to ship to every country on earth except the US!

Found this Jacquard Microcrystalline Wax Block-1lb | Michaels
Melting temp listed but not hardness. What do you think? Will it do?

Found another source for microcrystalline wax from Blick Restricted Access 2023
The Enkaustikos is $11.19 for 12 oz (340 grams), not sold in stores near me. Shipping is $7.95 via fedex per lady over the phone. I believe it's in flakes or granules which would make it easier to measure than the Jaquard block.

edit: Just learned the Enkaustikos is backordered, expected 10/02/2025

$22.95 (free shipping) for 1 lb ucrystalline from Michaels is the best deal so far. Please post if you find a better deal.

 

[BlueSwordM]

Is the Milk frother really necessary? If both ucrystalline and paraffin wax are above their melting points, wouldn't stirring with a spoon be sufficient or will they eventually separate?

It is not required, but a milk frother or an immersion blender helps with efficiently mixing the ingredients quickly. This is less important with waxes since we're dealing with somewhat similar waxes; we're not trying to mix sunflower wax with paraffin of course.

However, mixing tools help mostly with dispersion of solid additives or in emulsions, so while you don't need such items, they are very nice to have.

 

[BlueSwordM]

Found another source for microcrystalline wax from Blick Restricted Access 2023
The Enkaustikos is $11.19 for 12 oz (340 grams), not sold in stores near me. Shipping is $7.95 via fedex per lady over the phone. I believe it's in flakes or granules which would make it easier to measure than the Jaquard block.

edit: Just learned the Enkaustikos is backordered, expected 10/02/2025

$22.95 (free shipping) for 1 lb ucrystalline from Michaels is the best deal so far. Please post if you find a better deal.

This one (medium/soft) should also work from Carmel:

Microcrystalline Wax

A petroleum-based wax used in a variety of applications, including cosmetics and beauty products, as a binder and as an emollient.

carmelindustries.com

 

[Zambam]

This one (medium/soft) should also work from Carmel:

Microcrystalline Wax

A petroleum-based wax used in a variety of applications, including cosmetics and beauty products, as a binder and as an emollient.

carmelindustries.com

$13 shipping + 35% tariff not such a good deal for US customers!

 

[BlueSwordM]

$13 shipping + 35% tariff not such a good deal for US customers!

Oof, I forgot this is one of those cases where US shipping is more expensive and the import taxes make it hard to swallow.

Sorry, I thought Carmel Industries also had a plant in the US, but only in Canada it seems.

I'll try to find a better source.

 

[BlueSwordM]

@Zambam Are any of these good sources?

White Microcrystalline Wax, 1 lb.

The standard casting wax used in bronze foundries for years, microcrystalline waxes have taken the place of natural waxes such as beeswax because of lower cost and availability. These materials are relatively soft at room temperature, and when warmed may be modeled by hand, otherwise metal and...

douglasandsturgess.com

Micro-Crystalline Wax

Armadillo Clay sells clay, equipment, tools, glazes and supplies to artists, ceramists and potters. Clays and supplies are available for retail and wholesale at discount prices. Serving Texas for the past 40 years.

www.armadilloclay.com

Restricted Access 2023

https://www.plazaart.com/jacquard-microcrystalline-wax-1lb

Departments - Jacquard Microcrystalline Wax Block 1lb

Jacquard's microcrystalline wax can be used alone or mixed with paraffin for batik. Also used in encaustic painting as a substitute for the encaustic medium. Melting temperature is approximately 175 F. Use in a well ventilated area.

www.artsupplywarehouse.com

High Meltpoint Microcrystalline Wax

Shop at our candle supply store for a complete line of candle making and supplies at warehouse prices! We have wax, wick, fragrance oils, soap bases, and air freshener supplies too.

candlesandsupplies.com