Mid drive chain efficiency and longevity tips

[2old]

I would consider two chains; clean one by soaking in solvent while using the other, then reapply to the formerly dirty one and swap back when necessary. This should increase the life of your system and keep your pot clean.

 

[Diggs]

would contaminate my wax pot.

Someone on Youtube showed how that was a benefit. Every few waxings after the wax is cool. They would slide it out of its bowl and scrape off the bottom contaminated wax. The other thought is that you put a coarse screen in the bottom of your wax. The crap falls through the screen to the bottom while your chain stays on top.

 

[BlueSwordM]

I have been super happy with my first waxed chain last year on dirty mtb use. Super quiet and not much dirt sticks to it.

The part I cant figure out is the re waxing. Am I supposed to completely strip it again with solvent and start over every time?

I fear anything other than complete strip would contaminate my wax pot.

After the first hot wax I would just hose it off after each dirty ride and reapply drip wax.

I ride 9speed chains so for $15 I can swap new chains every few months but that feels wasteful.

Just clean your chain with a wet rag and you'll be fine.

Hot wax is wonderful specifically because the hot wax is the contamination reset.

Since wax by itself attracts very little debris, even if you don't clean your chain, your wax pot will stay usable for tens of thousands of kilometers.

For reference, my original paraffin wax puck that I still use for my family's other bikes is still quite clean.

In the worst case scenario, just put your chain in a pot of hot water (80-90C) and all of the dirt and wax will be removed, a complete reset.

 

[lnanek]

Silca has some wipes they market for regular cleaning of waxed chains:

Gear Wipes Canister (110 sheets)

A game-changing bicycle cleaning product. This two sided wipe is safe on hands, will clean any oil/grease, and is safe on paint without causing streaks.

silca.cc

I've just been using alcohol wipes, personally.

I hear water on waxed chains can cause rust, so I don't know about the hose. Maybe if you blow the water off with compressed air after.

If you are going to dip it in molten wax again, though, people say just do it. The dirt will end up at the bottom of your wax puck and can be removed. If you want to put a cleaner waxed chain in the molten wax pot, people say to just boil in water first. So no need for crazy solvents (or high temperature conversion of factory grease to wax via Strip Chip) after the first time.

 

[A-DamW]

... people say to just boil in water first. So no need for crazy solvents ...

Water, the universal solvent.

 

[lnanek]

So you are saying water is a crazy solvent to use? Compared to mineral spirits? Have you ever worked with them?

 

[DanGT86]

Thanks for the replies. Idk why it didnt occur to me that there wouldnt be lube contamination involved in the re waxing. I see now why people just remove dust and re dip.

As for water I was loving the waxed chain till a rainy weekend where the bike spent days getting wet and air drying on my rack. That rusted the chain pretty badly. I guess the strategy moving forward is to at leas drip wax asap when it gets wet.

I could see a boiling water dunk and compressed air dry working if done minutes before waxing.

 

[fechter]

Maybe get a stainless steel chain?

 

[scianiac]

As for water I was loving the waxed chain till a rainy weekend where the bike spent days getting wet and air drying on my rack. That rusted the chain pretty badly. I guess the strategy moving forward is to at leas drip wax asap when it gets wet.

This was my minor annoyance with chain waxing as well, although I think it's mostly surface rust and the inside of chain where it matters is fine, I added a corrosion inhibitor to my wax and it seemed to have solved it.

Microcrystalline wax disrupts the linear chains of paraffin wax and makes it flake less. It also improves metal adhesion.

Polyethylene wax (LDPE wax in this context, even though mine's melting point is 113-115C lmao) acts as a sort of rebar with its super long chains. It makes the wax harder and tougher simultaneously; it mainly prevents cracks from spreading and minimize flaking under surface abrasion (water + sand) or under pressure (chain load + abrasives). It also disrupts the crystalline wax structure, just differently.

Commercial wax mixes tend to employ these "composite" waxes to balance low friction and high treatment lifetime, which is something wax DIYers tend to miss.

How much microcrystalline wax does it take to distrubt the crystals or in fact any thoughts on the loading of PE wax/LDPE/LLDPE? I was just going to guess and add like 10-20% LLDPE when I was theorizing this awhile ago.

 

[Zambam]

In the worst case scenario, just put your chain in a pot of hot water (80-90C) and all of the dirt and wax will be removed, a complete reset.

I have boiled a waxed chain ridden for 100 miles just to try boiling. After it came to a boil, I poured off the water with wax floating on top, added fresh water bringing it to a boil again. Did that at least 3 times on the same chain, each time there's more wax floating on top. In my case all of the wax did not get removed. I think pouring hot water over a chain may remove more wax than boiling- gravity vs wax lighter than water. I'll have to give that a try next.

I think the wax (or whatever) is in between the pin and roller is difficult to remove by any method. One test I plan to do is boil a used waxed chain (with WS2) multiple times, push a pin out, remove the roller, wipe with white tissue paper. If it's black, boiling did not remove the wax.

 

[Zambam]

I added a corrosion inhibitor to my wax and it seemed to have solved it.

What's the inhibitor and how much is needed? I do not need it since I do not ride when it's wet out but others may be interested.

 

[scianiac]

What's the inhibitor and how much is needed? I do not need it since I do not ride when it's wet out but others may be interested.

It was a industrial lubricant additive that was very hard to get, I was looking for some readily available option but usually it would be already in an oil or grease.

 

[Diggs]

My waxed chain has over 350 miles on it. I haven't touched it but now it's starting to skip under load on the highest gear (14t). It's still shifts smoothly and the chain is quiet.

My derailleur is 40 years old and even though I clean and lube it ~annually(?) there seems to be problems with the tension part of it. I put a few drops of oil on the pivot points and the chain skipping went a way. It appears there wasn't enough tension. I have 460 miles on my waxed chain. It is quiet, shifts perfectly and runs quiet even at high speeds. I'm still on the road so I should finish up with ~500 miles or so.

(Gives me a reason to start looking a derailleurs.....)

 

[hillslayer@]

I have had good luck with dirt cheap derailleurs the Shimano altus works. If you really want your drivetrain to last I waxed my chain every 100 miles when I was using a mid -drive never had to replace a chain or a cassette . 500 miles is probably putting some wear and tear that could be avoided.

 

[Comrade]

I hear water on waxed chains can cause rust, so I don't know about the hose. Maybe if you blow the water off with compressed air after.

I don't let mine air dry. After a boiling bath I just throw it into the toaster oven at 300F for 30-60 mins. All water will be gone without any rusting.

 

[lnanek]

Yeah, I have these $10 Altus 7 speed derailleurs on both my tandem and ebike:

Shimano Altus RD M310 7 Speed 8 Speed Black MTB Rear Derailleur RD-M310 | eBay

The Shimano Altus rear derailleur features an advanced light-action, long-cage design with Teflon-coated bushings. What sets the Shimano Altus derailleur apart from other rear derailleurs is its unique 13 tooth upper and 15 tooth lower pulleys that provide a 43 teeth chain wrap capacity (more...

ebay.us

Built like a tank. Much better than the plastic Tourney thing that broke to pieces off my Kulana tandem. That one didn't even have a B screw for moving it out from the cogs and had various plastic bits where the Altus has metal.

 

[Diggs]

I waxed my chain every 100 miles

What? That would be every few days for me and not viable when I'm on the road. I put on ~1,500 miles a year. I used to lube my chain every 100 miles. I'm hoping to get away from that with waxing.

 

[Zambam]

I have 460 miles on my waxed chain. It is quiet, shifts perfectly and runs quiet even at high speeds.

If this was a degreased used chain, then waxed (what I also did), your results may not be valid, because you ran a mixture of the old wet lube + wax. I just did an experiment to show that it is very difficult to clean the "insides" of a chain. I'll post some photos from my experiment later.

 

[BlueSwordM]

I have boiled a waxed chain ridden for 100 miles just to try boiling. After it came to a boil, I poured off the water with wax floating on top, added fresh water bringing it to a boil again. Did that at least 3 times on the same chain, each time there's more wax floating on top. In my case all of the wax did not get removed. I think pouring hot water over a chain may remove more wax than boiling- gravity vs wax lighter than water. I'll have to give that a try next.

I think the wax (or whatever) is in between the pin and roller is difficult to remove by any method. One test I plan to do is boil a used waxed chain (with WS2) multiple times, push a pin out, remove the roller, wipe with white tissue paper. If it's black, boiling did not remove the wax.

You don't need to remove the wax that's between the roller and pin

That's the place where the least contamination can be found, so a normal hot waxing will work afterwards.

 

[BlueSwordM]

This was my minor annoyance with chain waxing as well, although I think it's mostly surface rust and the inside of chain where it matters is fine, I added a corrosion inhibitor to my wax and it seemed to have solved it.

How much microcrystalline wax does it take to distrubt the crystals or in fact any thoughts on the loading of PE wax/LDPE/LLDPE? I was just going to guess and add like 10-20% LLDPE when I was theorizing this awhile ago.

My current recipe is 89% fully refined paraffin + 10% microcrystalline wax + 1% 0.5um WS2 (I aim lower rather than higher).

It actually works quite well in the wet, with the wax on the side plates will somehow being preset after 2 rides in the wet.

It's clear that the ucrystalline wax addition (80C melting point + 27 hardness for reference) made the wax adhere to the metal much more strongly.

As for the PE wax, 5% should be largely enough for an all-around wax, although if you want more mileage, 80% refined paraffin + 10% ucrystalline + 10% LDPE wax would likely make it extremely durable.

 

[Yanis]

It's clear that the ucrystalline wax addition (80C melting point + 27 hardness for reference) made the wax adhere to the metal much more strongly.

What would be the problem with using only microcrystalline wax then ? Too much friction ?

 

[Zambam]

It's clear that the ucrystalline wax addition (80C melting point + 27 hardness for reference) made the wax adhere to the metal much more strongly.

Is 27 hardness the Shore A scale (27 is soft)? Does adding microcrystalline wax eliminate flaking and result in less mess? How much does it extend mileage between waxing?

 

[hillslayer@]

What? That would be every few days for me and not viable when I'm on the road. I put on ~1,500 miles a year. I used to lube my chain every 100 miles. I'm hoping to get away from that with waxing.

Just saying if you have a mid -drive it saves components, for me taking the chain off and throwing it in a pot takes very little time.

 

[BlueSwordM]

What would be the problem with using only microcrystalline wax then ? Too much friction ?

The wax gets softer. At low percentages <=5% with the ucrystalline wax that I have, the final wax hardness doesn't change. At >10%, that story might change.

Without another hard long chain wax like PE wax to strengthen the surface of the wax, contaminants will more easily find their way into the wax. However, water will have a harder time displacing the wax, which is nice.

This is mostly true at higher temperatures. At lower temperatures, you want a softer more resistant wax anyway.

 

[BlueSwordM]

Is 27 hardness the Shore A scale (27 is soft)? Does adding microcrystalline wax eliminate flaking and result in less mess? How much does it extend mileage between waxing?

No, that would be ASTM D1321 I believe: wax penetration test.