Nanjing far driver controllers

FWIW, controllers don't push current, the motor "pulls" it. If htere is not enough of a load, then the controller current will not increase beyond what is required to overcome the load.

Using the dyno you can increase the loading on the motor to force current requirements up as high as the dyno supports, and tune the controller for best response under the highest loads you expect to see in real world use.

FWIW, you don't really need much current at only 11-30kmh, except during acceleration if you are trying to accelerate very quickly to higher speeds (quicker accleration takes more power), or climbing a hill (steeper takes more power).
 
Thank you for this.
Although is there anything I can change to make it accelerate quicker?
amberwolf said:
FWIW, controllers don't push current, the motor "pulls" it. If htere is not enough of a load, then the controller current will not increase beyond what is required to overcome the load.

Using the dyno you can increase the loading on the motor to force current requirements up as high as the dyno supports, and tune the controller for best response under the highest loads you expect to see in real world use.

FWIW, you don't really need much current at only 11-30kmh, except during acceleration if you are trying to accelerate very quickly to higher speeds (quicker accleration takes more power), or climbing a hill (steeper takes more power).
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adityashetty said:
From what I've noticed the controller doesn't push current till about 30kmph, and then it gets nice and responsive.
Ive tried almost all the PID options but no luck.

P.S I had put my bike on a dyno and got 85Nm(phasecurr at 800A) at about 300RPM≈11kmph, whereas my motor is rated for 140Nm.
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Which motor do you have exactly and how capable is your battery and wiring setup.
Do you see more current over 30km/h?
 
Does anyone know the max "rated" DC apps for fardriver 72850? In the description it says peak, DC amps are 450 but the seller is saying that the rated dc amps can’t be set more than 350amps..

Can anyone chime in on this?

If so, I probably will order the 721800. Although it’s 3+ pounds heavier.
 
For FOC controllers where you can actually see and change it, then what matters is the phase amps, for how much motor torque you can make with it, to do the job you want it to do. If you have data on the motor itself that indicates the actual phase amps it can take (unlike ebike motors that *might* say they're good for a "40A controller" or whatever, that mean battery amps), you can use that as some indication for the phase amps you want to use to run it at it's max possible torque levels when you need that.



Knowing battery amps only really means you can multiply that by battery volts (including sag under the load) to calculate total watts the battery is outputting (which is more than the watts you actually get at the motor because of conversion losses), and also knowing what the battery has to be able to handle (and it's wiring, BMS FETs or contactors, etc).
 
Eastwood said:
Does anyone know the max "rated" DC apps for fardriver 72850? In the description it says peak, DC amps are 450 but the seller is saying that the rated dc amps can’t be set more than 350amps..

Can anyone chime in on this?

If so, I probably will order the 721800. Although it’s 3+ pounds heavier.
Click to expand...



Ok so the seller made this confusing at first by suggesting the "rated amps" can be adjusted which they cannot be changed. Supposedly the far driver 72850 has the "rated current" set to 225amps. While the max dc amps is 450amps.

So I’m wondering if the rated amps are based on a percentage of the max DC amps setting??
Example, if I set max DC amps to 225 would that automatically lower the rated amps to around 112.5 amps which is 50%.

The only reason I’m trying to figure this out is because I like to turn down the rated and Max DC amps at times to conserve battery range.
 
j bjork said:
I dont know what rated amps you are referring to,
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Well, most all controllers have rated DC amps and Max DC amps, which is completely different from the phase amps.

It’s just with the far controller we can’t adjust the rated amps, only the the max DC amps.

But yeah, with using the 3 speed switch, We are getting a percentage of the DC amps which allows for lower power output. I still feel like with this controller we should be able to adjust both rated and max dc, regardless of the 3 speed switch.

Even with the Sabaton controller, you’re able to adjust the rated DC amps, and max DC amps. Then they even have rated phase amps, and Max phase amps settings. Most people set the rated amps to about 50% of the max DC amps. Far driver says the rated dc amps are set to 225a but it fixed and can be changed. It’s ridiculous, They give us an adjustable controller and then set the rated amps at a fixed rate. I guess they suppose everyone will be using the controller to full capacity all the time which is not the case for most people. I would like to set the rated amps around 150-ish at times but can’t since its fixed 🙄
 
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In this case, for a fixed lower rating like that, the only way I can think of you could lower it is to see if the max rating for the same parameter can be set lower than that, and then do whatever the controller requires to engage that rating all the time. :(

Semi-related thoughts: Different developers have different "philosophies" they use to design their stuff, and they don't always adhere to "standards" or even typical usages, etc. Some of these choices don't make sense to us, but may be required for them due to the way they wrote their software. I've run into this with other systems (both EV-related and not), and in some cases (not this one) have talked to the developers and tried to convince them of the need to change this...but they don't see things the way the end-user does and believe they can just do things however they feel like, and it's not their problem how the end-user needs to use it. If the end user needs something different, they'll just have to go somewhere else instead of buying that company's product(s), because the developers simply aren't going to change things based on user needs--they don't care.
 
amberwolf said:
the developers simply aren't going to change things based on user needs--they don't care.
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Yes exactly, The developers just don’t care.
It just makes no logical sense to produce an adjustable controller, and then fix the rated DC amps, which is one of the most important settings, crazy! I was about to pull the trigger on this far driver, but then found out we can’t adjust the rated DC, so now I’m scratching my head 🧐

I really wish Sabvoton/clone controllers would produce a more powerful controller for motorcycles. I really like that controller set up and especially the throttle response. Paired with the right thumb throttle you can modulate very well. Consider using it on my Rmz build, but that controller is designed for hub motors plus it doesn’t have the power output I will need while doing extreme hill, climbs, etc.
With this far driver, one of the biggest complaints we see across the board is throttle control. Wish there were more options for motorcycle power level controllers.
 
Eastwood said:
Yes exactly, The developers just don’t care.
It just makes no logical sense to produce an adjustable controller, and then fix the rated DC amps, which is one of the most important settings, crazy! I was about to pull the trigger on this far driver, but then found out we can’t adjust the rated DC, so now I’m scratching my head 🧐

I really wish Sabvoton/clone controllers would produce a more powerful controller for motorcycles. I really like that controller set up and especially the throttle response. Paired with the right thumb throttle you can modulate very well. Consider using it on my Rmz build, but that controller is designed for hub motors plus it doesn’t have the power output I will need while doing extreme hill, climbs, etc.
With this far driver, one of the biggest complaints we see across the board is throttle control. Wish there were more options for motorcycle power level controllers.
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Hi Eastwood,

Maybe I can help you with Far Driver controller, I have used a ND96530 on my Sur Ron, and I’m using a Fardriver 84680 with my 10 Kw mid drive ebike LR mid drive kit (Qulbix).

For a 72850 your battery amps (line) are 450 Amps and 850 Phase Amps. The Working Voltage for this 72 Volt version is 48 Volt to 88 Volt Max. 84850 Working voltage is 60 Volt to 100 Volt Max and higher for the 96850 version.

With Fardriver you can use a regular (3) speed ebike switch. Low Speed can be program by a percentage of the Line Current (battery) meaning if you set your line current at 200 amps has an example you can set your low speed at 25 % and the result will be 50 Amps (Low Speed), then you choose your low speed, mid speed to match your need for each of them.

"if I set max DC amps (line) to 225 would that automatically lower the rated amps to around 112.5 amps which is 50%". =Yes, it’s worked this way.

With a 3-speed switch you can also adjust the RPM motor for low speed, mid and high and I really love this future with a Fardriver controller.

In my humble Opinion is better to use a higher Voltage than using a 72 Volt system, 96 Volt will create less heat, for your motor and battery, then an 84850 or 96850 is better choice for you IMO and give you also a little more range then a 72 Volt system.

Congratulation you have done an amazing job, with your dirt bike and ebike clone and your dirt bike it’s just so wow and nice looking.
 
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JRP3 said:
3Shul VESC based controllers.Ueah
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Was looking at the 3Shul while back. That’s what the the "crf450 race bike" tread on here is using..
His build is a monster of a bike with that qs180

Ariane said:
"if I set max DC amps to 225 would that automatically lower the rated amps to around 112.5 amps which is 50%". =Yes, it’s worked this way.
Click to expand...

Ok this is good to hear 👍

I figured that’s how it worked, but the sellers on AliExpress seem to get confused with these technical questions 😅.. they were saying that the rated amps always stay the same, which doesn’t make any sense. Thanks for clearing that up!



Ariane said:
In my humble Opinion is better to use a higher Voltage than using a 72 Volt system, 96 Volt will create less heat, for your motor and battery, then an 84850 or 96850 is better choice for you IMO and give you also a little more range at the end.
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Yeah, I was considering 28S but figured would go with 20S and have more groups of parallel for more range. The plan as of now is 20s17p Molicel P42A 340cells.


Ariane said:
Congratulation you have done an amazing job, with your dirt bike and ebike clone and your dirt bike it’s just so wow and nice looking.
Click to expand...

Thank you!
 
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Eastwood said:
Yeah, I was considering 28S but figured would go with 20S and have more groups of parallel for more range. The plan as of now is 20s17p Molicel P42A 340cells.
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Hi Eastwood,

Not exactly for instance a 14P 24S (336 Molicel P42A instead of 340) gives you more range for many reasons. Higher voltage Battery pack means also higher RPM’S therefore using a bigger rear sprocket, give you the same speed (72 Volt) with more torque for all the power band motor with less amps doing it.

Molicel P42A cells are 4.2 Ah cells and Ah nominal is normally rated at 4 Ah, and continuous discharge rate 45 Amps Max.
14P 24S = 56 Ah x 86.4 Volt (nominal) = 4838 Watts for this battery pack.
14P 24S= 58.8 (4.2 Ah per cell) x 86.4 Volt = 5080 Watts

17P 20S = 68 Ah x 72 Volt (Nominal) = 4896 Watts for this battery pack at 72 Volt.
17P 20S = 71.4 Ah (4.2 Ah per cell) x 20S= 5140 Watts

72 Volt x 763.88 Amps=55 KW
86.4 Volt x 636.57 Amps=55 KW

When you reach 3 volt per cell your 72 Volt pack is really discharged 60 Volt x 763.88 = 44 212 Watts.
When you reach 3 volt per cell for 86.4 Volt pack is really discharged 72 Volt x 630 = 45360 Watts.

A highest battery voltage pack will give more power output from top to end of the discharge cycle, with a bigger rear sprocket you can also reduce the line amps more. IF your goal is to get the maximum range you can get from your battery pack this higher voltage pack is your ticket.
 
Ariane said:
Hi Eastwood,

Not exactly for instance a 14P 24S (336 Molicel P42A instead of 340) gives you more range for many reasons. Higher voltage Battery pack means also higher RPM’S therefore using a bigger rear sprocket, give you the same speed (72 Volt) with more torque for all the power band motor with less amps doing it.

Molicel P42A cells are 4.2 Ah cells and Ah nominal is normally rated at 4 Ah, and continuous discharge rate 45 Amps Max.
14P 24S = 56 Ah x 86.4 Volt (nominal) = 4838 Watts for this battery pack.
14P 24S= 58.8 (4.2 Ah per cell) x 86.4 Volt = 5080 Watts

17P 20S = 68 Ah x 72 Volt (Nominal) = 4896 Watts for this battery pack at 72 Volt.
17P 20S = 71.4 Ah (4.2 Ah per cell) x 20S= 5140 Watts

72 Volt x 763.88 Amps=55 KW
86.4 Volt x 636.57 Amps=55 KW

When you reach 3 volt per cell your 72 Volt pack is really discharged 60 Volt x 763.88 = 44 212 Watts.
When you reach 3 volt per cell for 86.4 Volt pack is really discharged 72 Volt x 630 = 45360 Watts.

A highest battery voltage pack will give more power output from top to end of the discharge cycle, with a bigger rear sprocket you can also reduce the line amps more. IF your goal is to get the maximum range you can get from your battery pack this higher voltage pack is your ticket.
Click to expand...

Hi Ariane 👋

Thank you for taking the time to break down the different options! 🤠

I was thinking the same, less heat with higher voltage, and possibly more range with higher voltage pack. But a few people chimed in like amberwolf and others, they were suggesting more range with more groups of parallel at the lower voltage. Also, considering this build is for Enduro riding, which is at slow speeds. From my understanding, it’s harder to modulate the throttle a higher voltage setups at slower speeds.

Check out my thread here for my first battery build.,

👉 Click me 👈 we can continue this discussion of what would be the better option for more range., higher voltage with less groups of parallel or lower voltage with more groups of parallel.

Thanks!
 
I (and I think amber and others) made clear that it is the Wh that determines the range, not the configuration. And as I said before just like Ariane higher voltage gives higher power as you keep a higher torque up to a higher rpm. And ofcourse with a lower gearing it can translate to higher torque at the wheel with the same top speed.
 
j bjork said:
I (and I think amber and others) made clear that it is the Wh that determines the range, not the configuration. And as I said before just like Ariane higher voltage gives higher power as you keep a higher torque up to a higher rpm. And ofcourse with a lower gearing it can translate to higher torque at the wheel with the same top speed.
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Well, the watt hours would be almost identical with either configuration. So relying on the watt hours to determine range doesn’t help since they’re nearly identical.

20s -72v 17ah = 5069.40 WH 340 cells
28s - 100.8v 12 ah = 5080.32 WH 336 cells
The difference in watt hours is only 10.9

Yeah I'm still open to building a higher voltage pack.
 
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Hi Eastwood,

It is your project and I’m not here to tell you what to do it’s your choice and your project. Battery pack are measured in Watts-hour like J Bjork said and he build a really powerfull motocross. For your question about the throttle modulation the answer is no, not with a Fardriver controller because you can program the max RPM regardless of the voltage pack you used. If your max rpm is 6500 at 72 Volt you can program the same 6500 RPM Max at 100 volts then the modulation of your throttle at all speed will remain the same.

Or you can use a bigger rear sprocket to do this job with to get the same max rpm for the rear wheel. this way you have more torque at all speed and your top seed remain the same of a 72 Volt system. And the funny part ... your throttle will be more responsive and more accurate this way and you can also asjust response for the throttle with a Fardriver the choice is your.

If this second option gives you too much torque for your need you just have to drop the battery amps a bit and your phase amps a bit until you find the correct line amps and phase amps for your need with your electric motocross, Bluetooth Fardriver apps is easy to use even on a trail.
 
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Eastwood said:
Well, the watt hours would be almost identical with either configuration. So relying on the watt hours to determine range doesn’t help since they’re nearly identical.
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Then the range would be nearly identical as well, because it is available capacity (Wh) that determines range.

If you want more range, you need more Wh.
 
Ariane said:
Hi Eastwood,

It is your project and I’m not here to tell you what to do it’s your choice and your project. Battery pack are measured in Watts-hour like J Bjork said and he build a really powerfull motocross. For your question about the throttle modulation the answer is no, not with a Fardriver controller because you can program the max RPM regardless of the voltage pack you used. If your max rpm is 6500 at 72 Volt you can program the same 6500 RPM Max at 100 volts then the modulation of your throttle at all speed will remain the same.

Or you can use a bigger rear sprocket to do this job with to get the same max rpm for the rear wheel. this way you have more torque at all speed and your top seed remain the same of a 72 Volt system. And the funny part ... your throttle will be more responsive and more accurate this way and you can also asjust response for the throttle with a Fardriver the choice is your.

If this second option gives you too much torque for your need you just have to drop the battery amps a bit and your phase amps a bit until you find the correct line amps and phase amps for your need with your electric motocross, Bluetooth Fardriver apps is easy to use even on a trail.
Click to expand...
amberwolf said:
Then the range would be nearly identical as well, because it is available capacity (Wh) that determines range.

If you want more range, you need more Wh.
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Jrbe said:
The higher voltage version will likely be more efficient. Less heat and losses.
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OK, thank you all for the input!! I’m now considering doing the higher voltage build if you all think it would be similar range and then I will just have better top speed when needed and better performance overall. I’m still learning when it comes to the technical aspects of the battery side of things. I really appreciate all of your input!! 😀

On a sidenote, I got to test ride the bike today! I put my sabvoton 200 amp unlocked controller and used the batteries from my stealth clone build for testing. I figured this way I could see the performance of the 72 V system and this would help me determine if I would like higher voltage which I’m now leaning toward maybe a 28S pack 😁… The top speed was around 50 mph with no flux, 13t - 50t gearing. I didn’t get to test much because it was getting dark.

 
dragon said:
Heads up for anyone with a new fardriver ND72680 controller who can't get their speedo display working on the one-line wire. I got some help off the Facebook electric motorcycle build page. As told, I connected the display wire to the brown (boost) wire from the controller & voila, my display works! Waiting for the weather to cooperate so I can finish trying to calibrate the speed & odometer readings.
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Hey. How did you find out?
 
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