new eZip motor
- Thread starter latecurtis
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latecurtis
100 MW
Ok Thank you for the new link.
I sent an e mail to staton inc. the company that makes the 9 tooth sprocket and included a screenshot of both motors. The 350 watt and my 800 watt motor above it and told them I want the 9 tooth to work on my motor that takes the dual d bore sprocket. I asked them if it would fit and if not if they could make one that will. If this happens my gear reduction nightmare is over as if the price is right I can order one for my 24V 500W motor also. Gearing would be very close to 22 mph which is not too bad for a 500W motor. Thanks.
LC. out.
I sent an e mail to staton inc. the company that makes the 9 tooth sprocket and included a screenshot of both motors. The 350 watt and my 800 watt motor above it and told them I want the 9 tooth to work on my motor that takes the dual d bore sprocket. I asked them if it would fit and if not if they could make one that will. If this happens my gear reduction nightmare is over as if the price is right I can order one for my 24V 500W motor also. Gearing would be very close to 22 mph which is not too bad for a 500W motor. Thanks.
LC. out.
DrkAngel
1 GW
Of course you did show them pictures of the shaft and removed sprocket! ... ?
Showing them pictures of the motor body offers no clue as to shaft type.
Showing them pictures of the motor body offers no clue as to shaft type.
latecurtis
100 MW
I called the guy yesterday and talked with him. It is a no go on that sprocket. It will not fit.
http://prntscr.com/dpvu8m
That is about as close as I will get to the correct one. I will order it and see if it can be modified or will work with a washer or something.
There is a place I called about 1/2 mile away which will weld it for $25.
It is an option. Another option would be a larger wheel sprocket like a 65 or 70T if it were possible to locate one.
I will keep looking. The 9 tooth wont be enough gear reduction anyway for the 56T spoke sprocket on there but if I order a 24V controller and run the motor at 24V and 533W @ 1833 rpm it should run much better than 36V and 800W @ 2750 rpm especially if I can make the 9T D bore work on the motor. thanks.
LC out
http://prntscr.com/dpvu8m
That is about as close as I will get to the correct one. I will order it and see if it can be modified or will work with a washer or something.
There is a place I called about 1/2 mile away which will weld it for $25.
It is an option. Another option would be a larger wheel sprocket like a 65 or 70T if it were possible to locate one.
I will keep looking. The 9 tooth wont be enough gear reduction anyway for the 56T spoke sprocket on there but if I order a 24V controller and run the motor at 24V and 533W @ 1833 rpm it should run much better than 36V and 800W @ 2750 rpm especially if I can make the 9T D bore work on the motor. thanks.
LC out
Sunder
10 MW
Very random thought, but considered machining your own with a dremel? Could probably borrow one from a mate, and just buy the grinding tips.
Mark out the shape of the shaft on the sprocket, (of course, making sure whatever bore is there already is smaller), then just cut out the shape carefully and patiently until it fits. Even by hand, you should be able to cut it close enough to get minimal play.
It only came to mind because I've been doing a little jerry rigging myself lately. Sometimes, you just get sick of looking for the right parts, so you make your own.
Mark out the shape of the shaft on the sprocket, (of course, making sure whatever bore is there already is smaller), then just cut out the shape carefully and patiently until it fits. Even by hand, you should be able to cut it close enough to get minimal play.
It only came to mind because I've been doing a little jerry rigging myself lately. Sometimes, you just get sick of looking for the right parts, so you make your own.
latecurtis
100 MW
Yes anything is possible I guess. However it does not make it practical.
What I am dealing with here is a 20" kids bike as DA would say. Do I really need 36V and 25 or 26 mph ? That would be a big fat NO.
I had the right idea from the start. 24V and approx. 20 mph. Currently the bike is geared for 32 mph running old and inefficient SLA batteries with 5 amp alligator clips.
If I order a decent 24V controller like the 36V one I am using the motor rpm will drop from 2,750 to 1,833 rpm. Power will also drop from 800W to 533W but the bike will be geared for 21.5 mph instead of 32 mph. I should NOT need a 9T motor sprocket although it would be better and I wont need the 60T spoke sprocket either. It should run decent at 533W , 1833 rpm and 21.5 mph.
I need to finish this build and move on as I have 26" and 29" bikes to build and those bikes are NOT kids bikes and very capable of handling speeds greater than 30 mph.
LC. out.
I took the over-geared 20" bike across town to Doug's to get the brakes hooked up. They are not perfect but both rear and front are working now.
It failed miserably though on the way back on a tiny hill with little incline. What I don't understand is why the 24" bike works so much better at 36V than this 20" bike. At 750W and 2,250 rpm the 24" bike runs twice as good as this 20" bike at 800W and 2,750 rpm. The sprocket on the 24" bike is a 60T and the 20" bike a 56T.
I believe that if I switch the 56T with a 60T it will make a little difference. A 9T motor sprocket would do it even better but then I got to weld or dremel the 9T to make it work.
If only I could find a 65T wheel sprocket for the #420 chain. I would not need a 9T motor sprocket either. Kings custom sprockets makes them but at a steep $80 price tag. I need to keep looking. Someone must make a 65T which will work for under $50. Post a link if you have one please.
LC. out.
latecurtis
100 MW
The 24V 500 W motor got really wet from moisture on front porch window sill.
Trying to dry out. I am looking at somehow maybe using it if it is not ruined. Will test tommorow. Drinking now :lol:
Thinking about if I put one on the back and one on the front. Already got one on the front. Picture shows 29 mph if I can mount the 24V motor on back.
48V controller is in my drawer. Wiring the motors in series is really simple. It is on this post when I used a 36V controller and hooked two 24V motors to a 36V controller in series and ran it about 10 miles I think.And that was both motor sprockets hooked to a single wheel sprocket. :lol: Those 24V 280W razor motors that got ruined out in the rain sitting atop my dryer in my back yard now
latecurtis
100 MW
http://prntscr.com/dr9m5k
I just ordered that. I need to see how it will run at 24V.
I also ordered a 49" 4k TV so doubt I can afford the 60T spoke sprocket and thumb throttle this month. But there is always next month.
With the bad weather I wont be able to ride it much anyway.
LC. out.
I just ordered that. I need to see how it will run at 24V.
I also ordered a 49" 4k TV so doubt I can afford the 60T spoke sprocket and thumb throttle this month. But there is always next month.
With the bad weather I wont be able to ride it much anyway.
LC. out.
latecurtis
100 MW
Basically it should do well up hills.
I already got the 80T sprocket and just got the freewheel it attaches to.
I could put the 500W motor on the back and run in series with the motor on the front.
However I already ordered the 24V controller. I need to wait on more LiPo packs for 44V.
It should work good though after I get two new 6S LiPo packs.
That will be the upgrade.
LC out
DAND214
10 MW
LC, WTF can you be doing that you go thru LiPo so fast?
I still am using the lower ah packs like I sent you and they are still testing at 4.4ah a pack. So they are still useable for me. I'm sure I put a lot more miles on them than you do. So WTF?
I do know that HK had 16Ah 6s packs on sale last week for $80 but shipping was high.
I hope you have a better new year.
Dan
I still am using the lower ah packs like I sent you and they are still testing at 4.4ah a pack. So they are still useable for me. I'm sure I put a lot more miles on them than you do. So WTF?
I do know that HK had 16Ah 6s packs on sale last week for $80 but shipping was high.
I hope you have a better new year.
Dan
latecurtis
100 MW
Yea I can probably get by with the ones I got. I really need to work on the old ones you sent as they have been sitting for months. I will charge the packs now I think one at a time and combine them later.
I could run them with two motors in series with a 48V controller but only for a test run. Maybe a couple of blocks or up to a mile or two max. They should still have life in them but less than 50% of the capacity of when they were new.
If they would go 10 miles at 25 mph new we are looking at about 2 miles or less now at 25 mph I would guess and at 10 mph maybe 3 miles as long as there is no hills. Any decent size hill will kill them rather quick.
The new 10.0 pack on the top is hardly ever used. Less than 3 miles on that pack. The other pack like it as I ordered two is all puffed up and outside in the dryer waiting for the LiPo Shoot.
I have the Co2 bb pistol in my drawer. That was about $80 down the drain. The packs were brand new and that happened on the first run. It is ridiculous what cheap shit they sell on e bay.
I bought two so I could run 44V with the Schwinn and the 20" Diamond back with the 800W motor. It is why I never ride those two bikes anymore and just run 24V bikes.
Then there is the two 8.0 - 6S packs in the cash box neatly tucked into LiPo pouches. I lost the key to that cash box and they are in parallel for 16.0 and I have been running those almost exclusively for over a year now and I would guess they are around 50% of their life span as they were a cheap LiPo brand to begin with.
As long as I don't go up any hills they will go about 10 mph for 3 or 4 miles. I need to get some solder and work on those old packs after I charge them. I will still need two brand new 16.0 or 20.0 - 6S packs this summer especially for when I hook up an Alien power motor to the Haro V3
I am looking at a 3200W motor which only weighs about 2 pounds I think or less and am mating it with a 2,000W controller as the 4,000w one is over $300 and the 2,000W controller they sell about $120. It will not require any gear reduction as we are looking at about 60 KV. Gearing will be for around 37 mph.
Those old LiPo packs would not even make it a mile at 35+ mph. However I can get a few hundred miles out of them maybe with these two cargo bikes just putting around town at 10 to 15 mph. :lol: Thanks for posting.
LC out.
http://prntscr.com/drneql
The bike tipped over coming back from the laundry mat and now I have to fix it as the chain hits the tire.
Also If I run the 24V motor on the back at 36V it will be 750W + 800W for the front motor = 1550W.
Gearing currently for the front motor is 32 mph now but running the rear motor at 36V rpm will be 3,750 and if I can make the 80T sprocket work with #25 chain the gearing will be about 30.5 mph.
Can I run two 36V controllers with a single thumb throttle ?LC out.
Attachments
DAND214
10 MW
All I can say is why? All the builds are either over geared or the chain is way too tight. The extra tight chain is a real drain on the motor so the battery. You should be able to get at least 10 miles out of the old packs with the Schwinn even more with the 20" hub motor one.. Once you charge the batteries do not balance discharge them, use them.
What I said about the 6s old packs was, they were 6s5ah packs and now are 4.4ah packs more than 3 years later. These were the lowest ones I had and you got the better ones. I still think you need to run the alarms to see when they dive below 3.5 per cell under load. Yeah I saw that you are running the balancers and yes they will show low voltage but can you read them while riding? If so, ok use them but I don't think you do.
Dan
What I said about the 6s old packs was, they were 6s5ah packs and now are 4.4ah packs more than 3 years later. These were the lowest ones I had and you got the better ones. I still think you need to run the alarms to see when they dive below 3.5 per cell under load. Yeah I saw that you are running the balancers and yes they will show low voltage but can you read them while riding? If so, ok use them but I don't think you do.
Dan
latecurtis
100 MW
Let me clarify that before everyone jumps to conclusions.
I could not get all the laundry on one trip with the 20" bike so I went back to the house and when I parked the bike and went to get the other bag of laundry the bike tipped over. It did not happen awhile riding it. I got the brakes done at Doug's and besides being over-geared it runs good.
I will be looking hard at that bike to put the 24V - 500W motor on the back with the #25 chain and 80T sprocket for a 1,550W rocket. :lol:
As far as the old LiPos go part of the problem is probably letting them sit around too long. Hopefully I can find the key to the cashbox so I can pull them out and inspect them. Then I will need to charge them one at a time and check the cells. Since they are old and all the cells are not in the same state they will need to be balanced charged individually however they can be combined for two 10 AH packs when running them. I just need to get off the pirate game and get some solder and build some parallel cables. Thanks for posting.
LC out.
DrkAngel
1 GW
Of course!latecurtis said:
Run a LiPo too low, even once!, and it can "puff"!
How many times have I warned you to use low voltage alarms!!!
I know you are used to running SLA too deeply, without totally destroying them.
They just "fade away" ... lose capacity and output with each deep discharge.
LiPo damage is much more dramatic!
DrkAngel
1 GW
44.4V 8.8Ah (390wh) can give you:latecurtis said:
10mph = 38 miles range = .26C discharge rate
15mph = 24.6 miles range = .61C discharge rate
20mph = 16.4 miles range = 1.22C discharge rate
25mph = 10.6 miles range = 2.35C discharge rate
30mph = 6.5 miles range = 4.62C discharge rate
If! ... geared optimally, on level ground, with reasonable throttle use.
But, under acceleration or continuous on hills, battery drain can be >5c.
Based on 800w motor on 8.5% grade hill
If geared poorly - 3mph at 4.1C = battery empty in .71 miles with motor dangerously overheating
If geared properly - 15mph at 4.1C = 20% battery use in .71 miles ... about 20 mile remaining level travel range!
Bad gearing choice cut range drastically.
By one measure, range was only 20% - .71miles vs 3.55 miles up hill.
By another measure, range was only 3.4% - .71 miles vs 20.71 miles
DrkAngel
1 GW
With all the money you've spent on your ridiculous (subject to ridicule) over-geared "dream machines" ...latecurtis said:Also If I run the 24V motor on the back at 36V it will be 750W + 800W for the front motor = 1550W.
Gearing currently for the front motor is 32 mph now but running the rear motor at 36V rpm will be 3,750 and if I can make the 80T sprocket work with #25 chain the gearing will be about 30.5 mph.
... you could spend a comparative pittance to build a simple, cheap, reliable alternative of "reasonable" function and speed.
Sounds .. looks like you use a basic cargo bike at 10-15mph?
Gearing for 30-40mph cuts effective performance to ~33.3%.
350w motor (optimally geared) in some ways = 1000w motor (over-geared) ... at your functional use.
And, might use 50% the electricity for the same performance!!!
Compare your (optimally geared ?) 800w front hub vs your 800w rear chain drive (over geared)!
"Geared" for 16mph gives you a strong 20mph (16mph hills) vs "geared" for 37mph gives you a wimpy 23mph (3mph hills)
(I still label a powerful front drive on short wheel base - high center of gravity kiddie bike as suicidal, tho ...)
Building the same over-geared chain drives and expecting different resulting performance is a definition of insanity.
Putting 2 such motors on a bike designed for pedal only ... could be deemed insanity².
Considering the difficulties expounded with one such motor ... synchronizing 2 will not just add problems-difficulties, it will multiply them!
All for the one time(?) thrill of endangering your health-life and making yourself a target for law enforcement?
Much "safer"-cheaper-wiser(?) to get a speedometer and try to get it out of your system with some steep downhill plummets!!!
DrkAngel
1 GW
Front wheel with massive heavy sprocket, big chain and motor - spinning at high speed may require forceful yet delicate turning.
If chain prone to jumping off at normal speeds, better expect chain to jump off at high speed turn, flailing like a machete, jambing into hub-fork and locking front wheel, or just breaking as it wedges ... if you're lucky ... etc.
Test by raising front wheel, hit full throttle to obtain max rpm then try turning wheel left and right.
If chain prone to jumping off at normal speeds, better expect chain to jump off at high speed turn, flailing like a machete, jambing into hub-fork and locking front wheel, or just breaking as it wedges ... if you're lucky ... etc.
Test by raising front wheel, hit full throttle to obtain max rpm then try turning wheel left and right.
latecurtis
100 MW
I do not believe that was the case. How I know is because I charged them both fully seperate before running them in series and only went to Dougs house which is about a three mile trip.
That was a defective pack as it did not even read on the balancer and the good pack was way above 3.8V. I will go back and find the post.
Page 151 about half way down the page clearly shows the good pack was above 3.7V and they were run together in series. I did not run them low however what I did do wrong was NOT listen to the good advice NOT to buy cheap LiPo off of e bay.
Also I will be posting a video of the 30 mph 20" suicide machine in action if it is even possible to mount the other motor on the back. :lol:
Thanks for posting. LC out.
latecurtis
100 MW
View attachment 2
3200W / 10 = 320W
3200 - 1280 = 1920W
Basically the motor is 3200W with 10S LiPo
with 6S LiPo the motor is 1,920W
The only thing is I will need to call Alien Power as the controller is rated for 48V and the motor will be running at about 24V with 6S LiPo
The maximum power the motor is rated for is 10S LiPo and I do not see a controller for 36 or 24V.
I will probably gear the motor for 37 mph instead of 35 mph.
Thanks.It is 3 AM and drinking a beer. Thinking about writing some rap. here it goes. :lol:
I go from 0 to 30 in a big hurry
pedestrains scream before they run and scurry
no brakes needed so dont you worry
Big fat chopper forks on the Currie
LCs dream machines recless intentions
looney toon Acme created inventions
too many ghetto builds to even mention
two motors to get the laws attention
LCs gangsa EV rap is next dimention
http://prntscr.com/ds5eim
Not sure how these motors compare to larger brushed motors in low end torque however for racing those pesky four wheelers next summer. Perhaps a 1500W 48V hub motor for the front also would speed things up a bit from 0 to 30 mph. 3,420W total two wheel drive Haro V3
LC. out
Sunder
10 MW
DA and Dan are right, there is something wrong with your builds that the math isnt accounting for.
Sounds like you are drawing way more power than you should and killing batteries through both high discharge and low voltage.
If your battery, motor or controller is noticeably warmer than the bike frame after say, a 1-2 mile flat ride, it's definitely a fault with the bike.
Sounds like you are drawing way more power than you should and killing batteries through both high discharge and low voltage.
If your battery, motor or controller is noticeably warmer than the bike frame after say, a 1-2 mile flat ride, it's definitely a fault with the bike.
DAND214
10 MW
Are you sure it's the bike?Sunder said:
He has all different bikes and they do the same, so it's not the bike. Just pulling your chain Sunder,As you said over geared and on top of that the chain is as tight as a banjo string. Which causes more drain on the system. There is no way I would put a chain drive on the front wheel, that chain come off at speed and wraps around the fork, you are done!!!!!!!!!!
Dan
latecurtis
100 MW
Are you sure it's the bike?
As you said over geared and on top of that the chain is as tight as a banjo string. Which causes more drain on the system. There is no way I would put a chain drive on the front wheel, that chain come off at speed and wraps around the fork, you are done!!!!!!!!!!
Dan
Not really. There is still life in those batteries. I did let the LiPos Dan sent sit around awhile before running them. Also they have been mostly sitting the last 6 months. I will get them going again soon.
The 8.0 packs combined for 16AH at 6S have been ran and charged at least 300 maybe 400 cycles. They are cheap e bay LiPo not high quality which can do 800 or 900 cycles. they are still good for 3 or 4 miles without too much uphill involved.
OK.
However the thing I do like about having a chain on the front is I can lean over and see what it is doing. I cant see what a rear chain is doing however on the 24" bike but I can hear it hitting the steel bracket the motor is bolted to because I can't seem to get the chain tighter.
That is ok however as I do not need to go over 15 mph with that bike.
My goal this winter was to use all the parts I have and build a bike by ordering minimum parts. I got the hose clamps from advanced auto and will be mounting the motor this weekend.
The 20" bike with the chain on the front will be getting the 24V 500W motor on the back really soon. gearing will be 30.5 mph at 36V
The front motor is already geared for 32 mph. Together with the single thumb throttle I ordered hooked to both 36V controllers 1,550W should get it to 30 mph without a problem.
I am looking at the triangle rack for the 6 - 10 AH SLAs to power the motors. If it all works flawlessly then the upgrade would be 4S LiPo packs in series I guess for 8S LiPo providing there is a way to hook up two 36V 800W controllers to two 4S LiPo packs in series.
thanks.
LC. out.
DrkAngel
1 GW
Damn, you've had those 8Ah since August?latecurtis said:
Maybe 150 days?
That means you have run then recharged those batteries two - three times a day ... every day!
From your posts it sounds more like you run the SLA a couple times a week and any of your various LiPo maybe once every couple weeks! ... ?
DAND214
10 MW
Sorry DA, once again you beat me to the punchDrkAngel said:
I thought it was at least a month or two longer. I was saying the same thing but some how I blew it away. I was also saying I don't like the front wheel drive. Chain or hub drive, rear is more controllable than front. Had two front wheel drive the later one is what I broke rt ankle and leg on. powered up in a turn (wet) painted line and I went down. I was lucky to be able to ride home and got a ride to ER. Dumped both rides and do rear drive now. Maybe front and read hub but not front only anymore.
I sure wouldn't be looking over the bars at the chai. What happens if the chain snaps or locks up the wheel? Face plant for sure.
It really doesn't make any difference what I say, LC is a big boy and will do what he wants when he wants.
dan
DrkAngel
1 GW
What "sorry" ...DAND214 said:Sorry DA, once again you beat me to the punch
Don't apologize for being usurped!
Give me a Damn you!
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