new eZip motor

[DrkAngel]

To frocked up to figure it out himself. Wants us to do it for him. Amazing he has been tolerated for this long.

This is a forum for ebikes, not a place to unload ones random thoughts.

It's gone on for 292 pages now!

Entertainment value ...
3 Stooges type mayhem ?
You can't look away from the train wreck?

 

[nicobie]

That's how I would have thought about this before I was a Mod.

But now that I am, I'm not to sure how good this is for the forum. Makes us look like idiots.

 

[tomjasz]

Makes us look like idiots.

It sure does. This is THE WORST battery-building thread ever!
And the OP NEVER follows up on any recommendations. Washtub? WTF

My first teacher on batteries and pack building came from DarkAngel. A fantastic thread IMO. Obviously recommendations are cherry-picked or just obfuscated by the OP.

 

[latecurtis]

I should explain some unrelated controller\motor combo because I recommended a capable 48V battery?
Should be explained in original listing! Did you read it, or just skim and see the parts you wanted to see?

Well all I can say is thanks for NOT answering that question and no I am NOT being sarcastic.

I was walking today and started thinking why would I want to hook up a 48V battery to a 60V motor anyway. The 3 kilowatt 70 amp brushless controller needs all 60V. NOT 48V. When I build #3 - 6S - LIFEPO4 I will have 18S and 60V.

Well The 26" dual suspension is a cargo bike with the old repaired 26" hub motor on the back so really does not need the power modules. It runs fine the way it is with the 13S - 20 Ah pack.

The Bafangs all run 36V as well as the Giant Roam. This leaves just 1 e bike for the power modules. The 20" bike with the 1,800W brushless motor with the 1,500W 48V controller.

HMMMMM.

I remember saying that I did not have enough room to mount the power modules. Yes I did say that but was referring to the bike frame. A custom rear rack will do the trick and how many of them have I built. The answer is dozens,

OK. So now we have a 20" bike with a heavy 1,800W brushless motor and sprocket in the rear with two heavy power modules on a heavy duty rear rack. Way too much weight on the back right ?????

The answer is to add some weight up in the front.

How about THAT !!!



Now we will need to use 8mm chain for BOTH motors. The spoke sprocket will be replaced with a bolt on freewheel sprocket both front and rear.

Gearing will be





I want to use a single thumb throttle for both controllers just like I set up the Currie. The Currie has two DC breakers but hooks to a single battery. The brushless Bafang hooks the green throttle to the rear brush controller throttle middle pin with a spade connecter.

The dual motor 20" bike will be the same way except for a single 80 amp DC breaker. I will be ordering the 36V brush motor and the chain and sprockets tomorrow.

Oh and for those of you new here or not posted a lot it will be #5 front chain drive as I ran two 250W razor motors on the front of a 20" bike back in NY. Then a 500W unite , Then a 800W and 500W in the rear and recently installed the same 36V - 1,000W that is now on the Currie on the front of the 26: dual suspension that has the Bafang on it now. It ran fine with the 1,000W motor. I just wanted it on the back of the Currie.

As far as going 40 mph on a 20" kids bike I am scared as hell going 30 mph on that bike so how will I do it. Simple. Up a hill. :lol:

DA. taught me something as well. "ATTACK THOSE HILLS" That trip in the country I do a lot has the perfect hills. I shot several videos. There are a few intersections going down I have to look for but can see way ahead. I usually hit full throttle about 100 to 200 feet from the bottom attacking the next hill and gradually let off the throttle so I do not stress out battery and controller as much and slow down to 10 or 15 mph at the top instead of full throttle all the way up a hill.


l
It will allow me to hit 40+ at the bottom of the hill and maintain that until about 1/2 way and then back off the throttle so I roll over the top about 20 mph. that is the plan.

If it works I wont have to even attempt the 45 mph top speed on the flat. But still proves the capability if it can maintain 40 mph up a hill for about 1/2 way.

I will need to put money on my card to order the motor , chain and sprockets. I also need to find a suitable 1,500W BRUSH controller.

1,000 / 36V = 27.7W * 53 = 1,472W.


3,000 rpm / 36V = 83.3rpm * 53 = 4,416rpm.

Total power = 1,500 + 1,472 = 2,972 watts. 45 mph.

Thanks guys.

LC. out.

 

[Blacklite]

I'm not to sure how good this is for the forum. Makes us look like idiots.

And potentially someone actually tries to follow the same ridiculously stupid and dangerous approach to building batteries and bikes.

 

[latecurtis]

t sure does. This is THE WORST battery-building thread ever!
And the OP NEVER follows up on any recommendations. Washtub? WTF

And potentially someone actually tries to follow the same ridiculously stupid and dangerous approach to building batteries and bikes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sJ_y1rqVhU


That is my short answer to your posts and the members you quoted or agree with you.

The long answer about batteries and my e bike builds is your ignorance speaks for itself as no clue about battery technology.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKpDKoiYlvQ

If you bothered to follow my post like serious members you would know I am phasing out dangerous batteries. In fact recycled my old LiPos and looking to do the same for the old lithium packs. It is why I invested in 24 - Lishen LTOs and $200 in LIFEPO4. Also my e bikes all got brake upgrades at bike shop and I and the guy downstairs hooked brakes up. Your foolish posts have no merit.

Not only that , I have time after time on this post posted videos of the e bikes I built. Some around 30 mph. Going down the road!!! And I am STILL POSTING !!! Proof my builds are safe enough. Now you are saying my batteries and e bike builds are inappropriate ??? (back to my short answer)

I can and will do exactly what I said I was going to do in my last post. I am going to build something totally insane and then shoot a video of me going like a bat out of hell down a country road on it, :lol: :lol: :lol:

LC. out.

 

[DrkAngel]

Planning a "rational" 40mph eBike, for comparison.

 

[latecurtis]

Yea , I checked it out. I like it. You got a good deal on the bike. I like the way the frame looks. :thumb:

I soldered yesterday with the Weller. I decided NOT to make a video as I am just not there yet. I still need more practice. I am wiping down the tip with a damp cloth and tinning the tip.

I ran out of the good solder you posted the link to awhile back. Since I have NO reliable 36V batteries I need these LIFEPO4s finished. I have to use whatever solder I can get.

The thin solder evaporates a lot with the Weller. It is the right temperature you said so must be the solder but even the solder you recommended evaporated a lot. I am thinking thicker solder with the lead in it. I will call around but not a lot open right now. I just rolled out of bed.

Going to True value hardware. Hope they got solder with lead in it. I know you said that is much better than the other stuff.

Yea I am not planning on going much over 30 mph with that 20" bike normally. The big difference between the one you are building is if yours hit a pothole at 35 or 40 you might not totally wipe out depending on the size of the pothole. Mine will probably break a wheel and could flip the bike.

The trick however is to NOT hit a pothole in the first place. It is why if I try such a thing it will be on a road I have rode on dozens of times. If I hit 40 with my GPS speedometer going up a hill once I will be happy. Normal operation will be between 20 and 30 mph. Also anything I could do to beef up the bike I should look into. Maybe better 20" rims. I could look into upgrading the brakes but they both work already front and rear on that bike.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[DrkAngel]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/302342991378?hash=item46650bee12:g:kFsAAOSwX61ZODK-

https://www.amazon.com/Solder-approx-spool-ROSIN-0-062/dp/B07DFPRH3C/ref=sr_1_9_mod_primary_new?crid=1WV622MLFP34B&dchild=1&keywords=60+40+rosin+core+solder&qid=1629597972&sbo=RZvfv%2F%2FHxDF%2BO5021pAnSA%3D%3D&sprefix=60+40+rosin+core%2Caps%2C210&sr=8-9

 

[markz]

Amazon would be best, and free shipping
Even then you cant beat buying local but my guess is even though Curtis has a Walmart, there is no place to buy regular 60/40 solder.

No no the trick is not to get hit by a fuckingvehicle.

The trick however is to NOT hit a pothole in the first place.

 

[latecurtis]

Amazon would be best, and free shipping
Even then you cant beat buying local but my guess is even though Curtis has a Walmart, there is no place to buy regular 60/40 solder.

No no the trick is not to get hit by a fuckingvehicle.
The trick however is to NOT hit a pothole in the first place.

Yes.

I could not agree more on either statement.

100% true. Motor vehicles are assholes. people drive like they got their license out of a box of cracker jacks.

I was just referring to the best and safest place if someone was to do 40 mph for a short distance the country is better than the city. Especially if there is no woods or thick brush along the side of the road. Where I go there are large front yards and can watch out for lawn mowers , kids , dogs ect. You can see what is ahead for hundreds of feet. I have not even seen any deer and could see one way ahead. Hitting a deer at 40 mph would not be a good thing.

As far as solder I got exactly what I needed. $21 bucks but will be enough to do many more packs.



My soldering skills just increased like 1.000 %

I went from an F to a B real fast if I was to be graded.

The thin solder was a problem to say the least. If I did not delete the videos I did soldering yesterday I will do a you tube video which will show why the thicker solder is the only way to go for soldering cells. Basically I am good now. I will easily be able to solder many more packs. 26650 and 18650. I still prefer 26650 as way safer running and charging. I will be ordering a lot more 26650 cells in the future.

The videos will be up soon. The cells barley even get warm now as the solder joints are really quick.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=No5isHtwCL4

The video was about 7 minutes. It took 5 minutes to solder one cell top to bottom with the thin Wall-Mart solder yesterday. Notice how much quicker I did a cell today with the better , thicker solder. 2 minutes vs five yesterday for one cell top and bottom. The cell got barley warm. 80 to 90% of the thin solder evaporated. I went thru the roll I bought from e bay also as was too thin. Must have gone thru a dozen tubes of Wall mart solder in the last 3 or 4 times soldering.

This solder is rosin and 60/40 like DA recommended but only about 10% evaporates instead of 90% as it it way thicker.

I should have no more soldering nightmares as long as I use the Weller and that solder. Like the other pack this will also be 50 amps so if I make a third 6S - 5P pack for 60V in series 50 * 60 = 3 kilowatts. Perfect for the Haro V3 and the 3 kilowatt motor and controller.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[latecurtis]

Yea I just looked back and saw the links.

Thanks DA.

I got enough at True Value hardware to last awhile.

The thing that really made me happy today was when I touched the cells and were barley warm. Those doubters out there who say soldering heats up the cell and damage are not right, Soldering with the Weller and the right solder wont heat up a cell any more than maximum rated discharge.

Perhaps I could have damaged some of the 26650 cells earlier on soldering with the 60W iron. But then again maybe not. 26650 cells are durable , Way safer and much more tolerant to battery abuse. Just a superior battery chemistry.

Two 6S LIFEPO4 = 40V and three is 60V.

Five out of six e bikes I got will run 40V.

only 3 will run 48V and 60V.

I could run the 1,800W brushless motor as well as the 48V - 1,000W motor at 60V so counting the 3 kilowatt 60V motor I have three e bikes capable of 60V.

Makes sense to me to build LIFEPO4 packs. 6S - 5P = 20V.

Not sure about 80V.

The FX - 75 - 5 motor may be too much for LIFEPO4. Not sure. 28 kilowatt's will need a better battery technology than LIFEPO4.

It is why I spent $600+ on LTOs.

I now have the FX motor , controller and batteries. All I need is the bike. A dirt bike frame = to 250 to 400 cc. 30 to 70 hp.

2,800W / 750 = 37.3 hp. - The output of the FX - 75-5 motor with 33S Lishen - 18 ah LTO. I have 24 so need 12 more. Not sure maximum volts on FX controller. Could be 34 or 35S - LTO. 24 + 12 = 36 so two more boxes or $320 or so to get FX - 75 - 5 motor powered. + a bike. :lol:


Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[markz]

Go read anything Liveforphysics or Doctorbass has posted
Learn how to use the search function and do a search.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=99012&p=1449973&hilit=soldering+battery#p1449973

 

[latecurtis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9WNutq6PV0&t=209s

I checked their posts and did not see a lot about 26650 cells. Mostly 18650 cells.

I am watching youtube videos though.

I said before I am looking to 86 18650 battery chemistry completely. Only time will tell how reliable my 26650 cells will be. The meter in that video shows the heat generated. I would need one also to measure the heat. Also I noticed on his video how he directly touches the cell. Even though DA. did not like my method I kind of melt the solder and drop in on to the cell.

I try not to touch the bottom especially with iron any more than I have to. To get it to stick I scratch up the surface with a drywall screw than use a tiny wire brush on my electric drill. It is what has taken so long. I have been sleeping all day and can not run the drill late at night when my wife goes to bed. Also people work down stairs.

After scratching the surface I thoroughly clean with 70% alcohol and Q tips and allow the cells to dry completely before plugging in the solder iron. From what I saw on your links spot welding can also damage the cells just like soldering. They were talking about springs and complicated solderless methods.

I have dents in some cells from attempting solderless and will have to recycle some of the 18650 cells. I have a lot of 18650 cells that rattle inside. Cells like that and with < 2V are in a metal can. Looking to get them out of here. I have cells to extract also. At least even severely damaged 26650 cells are not a fire hazard like 18650 cells are. Many videos will prove that.

At this point I really need to finish pack #2 - LIFEPO4 for 12S so I can run most of my e bikes and just hope for the best. What more could I possibly do ? I am done spending big money on e bike batteries. Way over $1.000 is ridiculous. Probably closer to $1,500 in two years counting the e bike batteries already built I ordered off of e bay.. If the LIFEPO4 packs I built fail due to damage from soldering I am looking to sell most or all my e bikes and use the money for a small 4 cylinder car. The LTOs are so big and heavy only a motor cycle frame is suitable to handle them.

8:40 AM.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8HoW-qmxnU

That is amazing. I could have started my van when it was dead with those cells. I know LTO can do it but surprised 4 - 26650 cells are capable. I have been looking to find how the inside parts of 26650 cells compare to the inside of 18650. The posts you showed me show internal damage from soldering or spot welding 18650. I have yet to find a comparison. I would imagine 26650 should be less likely to damage than 18650.

I think the only way to tell is when I hook them up to the Currie. The rear chain is 1,000W and the front Bafang 350 however going up a hill especially from a dead stop at the bottom I suspect the controllers will pull all the amps they are rated for so looking at 40 * 30 = 1,200W rear and 40 * 18 = 720W front. However the brush controller might only be 26 to 28 amps. I forgot and is out in the van. Looking at around 1,600W and 40 amps though from 12S - LIFEPO4.

Using that logic , after watching four cells in series starting a car which is like 5 to 10 times the amps I just do not see how my 26650 packs could fail at 40 or 50 amps even if they got slightly damaged soldering.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[DrkAngel]

Also I noticed on his video how he directly touches the cell. Even though DA. did not like my method I kind of melt the solder and drop in on to the cell.

I try not to touch the bottom especially with iron any more than I have to. To get it to stick I scratch up the surface with a drywall screw than use a tiny wire brush on my electric drill. It is what has taken so long.

Description of the LCMN™® (LateCurtis Mangled Nipple) Trademark soldering method.
Dripping cold solder onto cold metal, then heating the pile of solder till it kinda melts again, then piling some more solder on top to (¿)hold it down(?).

The prolonged secondary sketchy contact still transfers more heat than a brief, proper, direct contact solder joint.

 

[latecurtis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvHtaBQmdss&t=455s

This guy soldered 60 years. He got it down to exactly 1 second. If you watch the video his solder job wont heat the cell up as much as minimal discharge.

It looks like spot welding does do more harm to a battery but only if you can solder like that guy. DA. probably can do that. That is professional soldering folks.

What I did is not. I admit it but is better than a week ago or a month ago for sure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIAOaN1kQ7E

That is the end of the video I did a couple days ago. A little over 3 seconds mabye but next time I should put the solder on all 10 cells and then tin 10 wires before soldering the wires to each cell. It would allow time for the cell to cool instead how I did it there.

I got the cells ready. Might wait until tomorrow to solder though. Will shoot a video with stopwatch app. on cell phone if I can find one. If I could get it down to 2 seconds or less than 3 seconds it is improvement at least. Took 60 years for that guy to be that good. Should call him Quick Draw Mcgraw. :lol: A second is wicked fast !!!!!

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[TrotterBob]

If only both sides of the 18650/21700/22650/32650 etc had those elevated contact points and not just one on the anode (positive) side.

Would conduct less heat into the cell and make soldering a viable option.

Until then spot welding a combination of copper and nickel strips seems to be the best option IMHO.

 

[latecurtis]

If only both sides of the 18650/21700/22650/32650 etc had those elevated contact points and not just one on the anode (positive) side.

Would conduct less heat into the cell and make soldering a viable option.

Until then spot welding a combination of copper and nickel strips seems to be the best option IMHO.

NO ! The best thing they could do is put screw posts on the top and bottom like my 18 AH - Lishen LTOs. Would work for 18650 and 26650. Any rechargeable battery ! No solder or spot welding. That would be the best.

Yes. I did research and heat destroys cells on negative side. That is for 18650 though. Do you know the difference internally between 18650 and 26650. I am looking for some illustrations and diagrams or video of disassembly of 26650s. Was looking earlier today. If you know any please post them.

I just got a real cheap spot welder though which could burn down the house. Might be ok outside where nothing can start a forest fire. Not when it is dry out obviously. Maybe after a good rain with a fire extinguisher and 5 gallon pail of water. :lol: $24 bucks off of e bay , Made in China. Yea

I got a good iron though. The Weller. 100W with a big screw driver tip. It really does not heat cells up that much. It melts solder fast like the guy in the top video in my last post. I just prefer to solder 26650 over 18650.

26650 is LIFEPO4 and can take a lot of abuse and not be dangerous. 18650 cells explode and burst into flames. I have a bunch I need to recycle. Got rid of my old LiPo awhile ago. Only keeping really good 18650s. If any at all.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[markz]

NO ! The best thing to do is to buy a battery and not build one yourself!

Ah good good so you do know that soldering cells does hurt the can. The previous post I responded to you acted like soldering doesnt hurt the can at all. Pheewww at least you got that straightened out.
Anyway sorry I was just to lazy and didnt really want to go hunting down posts on the matter and stuck with the one post. Anyway its been like years since I read the post but something along the lines of crystalizations happen and speed up when you apply heat, and soldering adds the most heat for the longest time, while tab welding still has heat but for much shorter time. Again, memories not that good from something I read out of thousands I read here on ES from yrs and yrs ago.

Yes. I did research and heat destroys cells on negative side.

 

[latecurtis]

NO ! The best thing to do is to buy a battery and not build one yourself!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvHtaBQmdss&t=455s

I nick named him Quick Draw. Like quick Draw McGraw. His solder events put NO heat in a cell. Less that a spot weld. His skills are 1 second solder joints. Best in the world I think. Maybe DA. is better. Who knows.

I am done spending money. If these two 6S - 5P packs do not work for the reason I damaged them then I am thru with e bikes. I will sell most of what I got and keep 1 or 2.

I will invest in a 4 cylinder car. The fact is some of the cells I did earlier on might be frocked up as I did not have the Weller and heated them up way longer than I should have. Even though I got the Weller and do not do that anymore it is still an excuse for failure and since I am down to one single battery that I bought I see no sense in wasting any more money.

I know when I touch a cell after soldering with the Weller the cell is maybe warm but not really hot. Of course that is outside surface temperature but some indication of what is happening inside the cell. The hotter the outside is then the hotter the inside would be from soldering or welding. I would imagine over discharge would be opposite as internal chemical reactions would be the source of heat and not outside factors like molten solder and hot metal.

Anyway I did do a couple videos soldering tonight with a stop watch. One thing to take into consideration is the video of Quick Draw McGraw shows him soldering an 18650 cell. Looks like an LG which was my first home built packs back in NY.

18650 cells have a significant smaller surface area. What I am saying is even Quick Draw may not be able to do 26650 cells in 1 second. I do not know how long my solder events took. I will need to go over the footage and do frame by frame and then calculate a mean average time.

I did the tinning for the wires with the 60W iron. I save the Weller for cells only. The 60W is good for tinning and soldering two wires together with some flux. I did not use flux tinning as not combining two wires. I only have a little flux.

What I liked the most was being able to place the wire on top of the solder ball and the solder iron on top of the tinned wire and everything just melts and perfect solder joint. I am honing my skills. The cells did not get hot tonight. Maybe a little warm on a few frock ups but overall performance I think I scored a solid B. Still room for improvement though. However at this point a working functional 36V pack is greatly desired. If I accomplish that I have reached my short term battery building goal.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[DrkAngel]

The video of the guy soldering the 18650, that you were so impressed with ... you should watch his tutorial-explanation on soldering, how to solder and how you aint!

[youtube]nS0bEuYPJoA[/youtube]

 

[Blacklite]

The video of the guy soldering the 18650, that you were so impressed with ... you should watch his tutorial-explanation on soldering, how to solder and how you aint!

But can’t spoil the LCMN™® (LateCurtis Mangled Nipple) Trademark soldering method!

What I liked the most was being able to place the wire on top of the solder ball

A little hint to LC - if there are balls of solder you are not doing it right!

 

[marty]

Anyway I did do a couple videos soldering tonight with a stop watch.
Thanks.

LC. out.

Must be hard to solder with one hand on the soldering iron. One hand on the solder. One hand on the batteries and wire. One hand on the video camera. And one hand on the stop watch.

I only have 3 hands. Sometimes I use my feet as hands. That gives me 5 hands. Mouth works too.

 

[Ianhill]

Id prefer to have my brake down in piece than time myself with a stop watch.

Your clearly lost in repetitive thinking and need to take a brake from all this and find yourself try be human again, dont need friends to enjoy the world but it helps to speak in a group so we can gauge ourselfs.

You my friend need help dont feel isolated theres a large chunk of the public that feel disconnected from modern life, weed is no good i can tell you that from personal experience and from a freinds perspective ive not seen anyone smoke weed and make them pro active its a fight any addiction is.

Weed is not addictive like heavier drugs but its still psycho active and over time changes who we are one drip at a time till theres a dark feeling over the body and mind of self destruction and that takes time in itself to heal.

 

[latecurtis]

The video of the guy soldering the 18650, that you were so impressed with ... you should watch his tutorial-explanation on soldering, how to solder and how you aint!

I get it. I saw how he did that in the first video. I just do not think I can do it yet !!! I will need to practice exactly what he did on old dead cells as I know I will frock it up and have to do it over and over. I do not wish to heat these cells up. The cells I am using in the videos were never soldered. they were from the 6S pack I built that was solderless but took up too much space.

I took them apart and have soldered the entire 6S pack all with the Weller.

I wish I could say the same for the first pack as it was done with the 60W iron. The cells were heated up a ridiculously long time. If they fail I will know it when running them. The LVC will cut out on a 36V controller. The cells will be lower than in the other pack and out of balance. The balancer and charger will tell me. I just hope it is not true as if these packs do not work I am finished. I will be selling most of my e bikes. I might keep 1 or two. I am sick and tired of making a fool out of myself.

The videos I did last night were not on a professional level but way better than anything I ever did with the 60 watt iron. Obviously I will edit out the frock ups. I want to see what I did right so I can try and do better next time. Kind of like learning math. If I were studying algebra why would I jump into a calculus class and look even more like an idiot.

The name of the game in the videos is to get a wire to stick without heating up the cell for a long time like 10 seconds. 5 seconds or less was the goal. 3 seconds a target. I don't think a 26650 cell can be done in 1 second like the guy in the video as he was soldering 18650 cells NOT 26650s. The larger cell requires more heat and an extra second or two to stick.

Yes the solder balls I dropped on the cells at the start of the video were not 100% bonded. a few came off with needle nose but once I melted those balls of solder to attach the wire the bond was much stronger. The goal was achieved which was attaching the wire without heating the cell up to a damage point. The goal was not to play monkey see monkey do or try to copy the professional solder guy I call Quick Draw. He has 60 years experience. I will probably never be that good but will try to learn his technique.

If the packs do work by some miracle and I did not destroy the first one then my short term goals will be met. I will be able to ride any of the e bikes I have built so far with 12S - 5P - LIFEPO4. The only bike that will not rum off of 40V LIFE is the 60V motor and controller I have not built yet. If these two work for 12S then I can move forwards and order more 26650 cells and make a third pack for 18S - 60V - 3 kilowatts.

I have to edit the video then will post it.

Thanks for posting.

LC. out.