New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

[csbike]

No, this is not open source, it contains some stock firmware, and slightly modified stock firmware (small increase to power)... any proprietary firmware mods are not included, and there are no open source firmware profiles either... I was just saying I have a database of ones I use/try... but the link has the STOCK coaster brake files for "el_proletario" who was asking for them - that was the main reason I posted the link

Ah ok,
but there is opensource firmware you (and others?) have been working on right? where is it? Is it this one? https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-firmware/TSDZ2-Smart-EBike/releases/tag/v0.19.0-beta1

thanks

 

[eyebyesickle]

No, this is not open source, it contains some stock firmware, and slightly modified stock firmware (small increase to power)... any proprietary firmware mods are not included, and there are no open source firmware profiles either... I was just saying I have a database of ones I use/try... but the link has the STOCK coaster brake files for "el_proletario" who was asking for them - that was the main reason I posted the link

Ah ok,
but there is opensource firmware you (and others?) have been working on right? where is it? Is it this one? https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-firmware/TSDZ2-Smart-EBike/releases/tag/v0.19.0-beta1

thanks

That's the one, which is others work! I'm around and might help out with a wire placement confirmation or something if needed, but I'm an amateur here when it comes to the firmware and have done nothing work on the actual firmware. I have my tweaked versions of maroqs version with the stock display, but with both that and the stock firmware I just tweak things here and there, take notes, test, and save the profile for future use or reference...casianho and some others have rewritten the whole code from stock for different power delivery etc...

 

[Rydon]

I have tried version 19 beta3 which fixes the backward resistance but now with v19 beta3 the motor never applies power when pedaling.

I am hoping someone will have some ideas on this. I will reflash it with 18.2 to make sure it still works with that level of firmware just to make sure something else hasn't gone wrong.

You need to make the tests I asked about cadence!!
On beta 3.

I am so sorry! I missed your request thinking that whole post was a reply to thineight! Cadence value is 0 when pedaling backwards. I will also reply in the other forum.

 

[csbike]

That's the one, which is others work! I'm around and might help out with a wire placement confirmation or something if needed, but I'm an amateur here when it comes to the firmware and have done nothing work on the actual firmware. I have my tweaked versions of maroqs version with the stock display, but with both that and the stock firmware I just tweak things here and there, take notes, test, and save the profile for future use or reference...casianho and some others have rewritten the whole code from stock for different power delivery etc...

Thanks,
I take the opportunity to ask you a few questions. I read the 250W version is less powerful (don't know if people were referring to torque or what) than the corresponding Bafang. But how big of a problem is this? Can it bring a total weight of 80-90Kg to climb a 10 or 15% incline?
What is the maximum torque of the TSDZ-2-250W? Do you know if I can find a power-torque-rpm curves anywhere?

Then is the power value ("250W or 350W") written somewhere on the motor? In theory, EU roads should not allow bicycles with motors beyond 250W.
In this respect, is it possible (and legal) to use a 350W motor and configure it (using the stock firmware or the custom one) so that it uses only 250W?

Thanks

 

[knutselmaaster]

That's the one, which is others work! I'm around and might help out with a wire placement confirmation or something if needed, but I'm an amateur here when it comes to the firmware and have done nothing work on the actual firmware. I have my tweaked versions of maroqs version with the stock display, but with both that and the stock firmware I just tweak things here and there, take notes, test, and save the profile for future use or reference...casianho and some others have rewritten the whole code from stock for different power delivery etc...

Thanks,
I take the opportunity to ask you a few questions. I read the 250W version is less powerful (don't know if people were referring to torque or what) than the corresponding Bafang. But how big of a problem is this? Can it bring a total weight of 80-90Kg to climb a 10 or 15% incline?
What is the maximum torque of the TSDZ-2-250W? Do you know if I can find a power-torque-rpm curves anywhere?

Then is the power value ("250W or 350W") written somewhere on the motor? In theory, EU roads should not allow bicycles with motors beyond 250W.
In this respect, is it possible (and legal) to use a 350W motor and configure it (using the stock firmware or the custom one) so that it uses only 250W?

Thanks

It depends a bit in what (European) country, but the 250w is the nominal power not the maximum power.
90% of the ebikes on the European market go (a lot) over the 250w limit when they are at their highest setting.
You will surely know the Bosch motors, their most powerful model, the cx, goes to approximately 700w max power for example.
As long as it stops assisting at 25km/h you'll be fine (in most European countries).

The 250W version has about 7A max (36Vx7A =~250W) and the 350W version about 10A max (10Ax36V =~ 350W). The only difference (as for all I know) is the max A setting in the controller.

 

[Cristian]

Hi everybody,

I have this bike with a TSDZ2 48V 750W. I installed the Open Source Firmware a few days ago and i have about 50km since then. All is fine, the bike is really responsive and very powerful now. But i have a problem that appeared today, after i stopped to buy something at a shop. When i came back and left, everything was working fine, except the speed is showing 0km/h.

I checked the speed sensor and the cable and it seems fine. I reseted the firmware to factory settings, but it's the same problem. Anyone else ran into this? Or do you have any possible solutions?

Thank you,
Cristian

 

[csbike]

The 250W version has about 7A max (36Vx7A =~250W) and the 350W version about 10A max (10Ax36V =~ 350W). The only difference (as for all I know) is the max A setting in the controller.

Thanks
Is it a software difference only? I mean, can I flash a new firmware and turn a 250W into a 350W or the other way around? Or is there a hardware difference?

 

[casainho]

Hi everybody,

I have this bike with a TSDZ2 48V 750W. I installed the Open Source Firmware a few days ago and i have about 50km since then. All is fine, the bike is really responsive and very powerful now. But i have a problem that appeared today, after i stopped to buy something at a shop. When i came back and left, everything was working fine, except the speed is showing 0km/h.

I checked the speed sensor and the cable and it seems fine. I reseted the firmware to factory settings, but it's the same problem. Anyone else ran into this? Or do you have any possible solutions?

Thank you,
Cristian

I think you need to use an extra sensor to verify if the one you have have some issues. Maybe first try to use a different magnet??

Does does motor power shows off correctly on LCD3?

Speed value depends on speed sensor value plus the wheel perimeter that you setup on LCD3.

 

[Cristian]

Thank you for the reply. Yes, the power drawn from the motor is shown on the display.

The power output doesn't seem to be affected in any way, all is working like normal, just no speed.

 

[mctubster]

Thank you for the reply. Yes, the power drawn from the motor is shown on the display.

The power output doesn't seem to be affected in any way, all is working like normal, just no speed.

Has the magnet fallen off or too far or too close? Water in speed sensor plug / socket? Want about 5mm gap (alot more than a bike Speedo)

 

[knutselmaaster]

The 250W version has about 7A max (36Vx7A =~250W) and the 350W version about 10A max (10Ax36V =~ 350W). The only difference (as for all I know) is the max A setting in the controller.

Thanks
Is it a software difference only? I mean, can I flash a new firmware and turn a 250W into a 350W or the other way around? Or is there a hardware difference?

I admit that I have never put the two of them side by side for a comparison, maybe someone else has, to confirm this.
I understand from following this thread that there are 4 physical different versions: 36V normal, 36V coaster brake, 48V normal and 48V coaster brake (longer axle mods not taken in consideration). All differences in power are software if I understand well. 52V version is 48V with software mod.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[csbike]

It depends a bit in what (European) country, but the 250w is the nominal power not the maximum power.
90% of the ebikes on the European market go (a lot) over the 250w limit when they are at their highest setting.
You will surely know the Bosch motors, their most powerful model, the cx, goes to approximately 700w max power for example.
As long as it stops assisting at 25km/h you'll be fine (in most European countries).

The 250W version has about 7A max (36Vx7A =~250W) and the 350W version about 10A max (10Ax36V =~ 350W). The only difference (as for all I know) is the max A setting in the controller.

I live in France, and the manufacturer told me that 250W and 350W are same with a difference in firmware and that max power is 500W. In addition, there seems to be nothing written on the motor.
Since my main usage would be for commuting to work, I'd like to make sure I do not run into insurance problems in case of an accident.

 

[knutselmaaster]

It depends a bit in what (European) country, but the 250w is the nominal power not the maximum power.
90% of the ebikes on the European market go (a lot) over the 250w limit when they are at their highest setting.
You will surely know the Bosch motors, their most powerful model, the cx, goes to approximately 700w max power for example.
As long as it stops assisting at 25km/h you'll be fine (in most European countries).

The 250W version has about 7A max (36Vx7A =~250W) and the 350W version about 10A max (10Ax36V =~ 350W). The only difference (as for all I know) is the max A setting in the controller.

I live in France, and the manufacturer told me that 250W and 350W are same with a difference in firmware and that max power is 500W. In addition, there seems to be nothing written on the motor.
Since my main usage would be for commuting to work, I'd like to make sure I do not run into insurance problems in case of an accident.

I'm in France too.
It is quite impossible to measure the power of this motor because one has to pedal to make it work, impossible to know how much of the output power comes from the human and how much comes from the battery.
As long as you keep max speed at 25km/h or less no insurance should cause problems.
Just make sure to keep the rest of the bike in conformity: 2 brakes, light, bell, ...

 

[csbike]

Thanks,
I can always put a 250W sticker on it

More seriously, how do you switch from 250W to 350W setting? By flashing the firmware or through a configuration parameter?

 

[jbf]

I have a 2015 Krampus I would like to try with a TSDZ2 as well. My biggest concern is the diameter of the reduction gear housing and if it might clear the forged chainstay yoke used on the Krampus. I have been unable to find this dimension on any drawing online. Like you, I am trying to avoid the excessive use of spacers that would drive out the chainline. If anyone can quote me the diameter of the reduction gear housing on the driveside it would be appreciated ...

Hi Guys!

New to the forum, I'm thinking about electrifying my 2012 Surly Krampus 29+ 1x10 with a 48V/750W TSDZ2 (73mm BB). My biggest concern is the chainline and availability of smaller chainrings, say 38t, and their offsets and how to get it all work smoothly with a 1x10 transmission. In this build with Bafang BBSHD and Krampus, the chainline turned out challenging. Can I expect similar challenges with the TSDZ2 chainline with stock chainring? What alternatives do I have to correct the chainline and retain the 1x10? Are there any smaller chainrings or spiders available that "wraps around" the clutch nicely inwards and helps adjusting the chainline neatly (like the Lekkie Bling Blings for Bafang)?

Thanks in advance!

 

[sysrq]

This is my stealth e-bike build. TSDZ2 52v with a 6ah mighty mini battery in the tail bag, 100mm fat bike adapter, VLCD-6 display and a 30t chain ring for hill climbing. The Framed Minnesota LTD was a great platform for the build. Decent specs for just under $1000 and the chain line worked well with the TS chainring and the 30t narrow wide chainring I bought from Electrify Bike Co. I bought the motor with the fat bike adapter pre-installed from Eco-Cycles (eyebyesickle) - great reseller BTW. I ran it with the metal gear for a while, but reinstalled the blue nylon gear to make it quieter.

I'm really loving this build and have about 400 miles on it so far with no issues. I ride as much as possible without any assist and save the assist for long hill climbs and head winds and usually only use level one or 2 assist. I can get 30-50 miles out of the little 6ah battery riding it this way. 26x4.0 Schwalbe Jumbo Jim tires have surprisingly low rolling resistance and at 12 psi make the bike a pleasure to ride. One of the things I love about the TSDZ2 is how little it interferes with unassisted pedaling when you choose to do so. I recently went for a single track ride with a friend on his regular mountain bike and I was able to keep up no problem with the motor turned off. I am getting more fitness benefits from this bike because it allows me to ride further and for longer periods of time. I also ride more often than I did with my regular mountain bike.

IMG_0578.jpg

How do you keep it from automatically turning off while riding in unassisted mode. Nobody seems to be concerned with it. Don't know any other way around it but to periodically turn on the assist after every 5 minutes or so, otherwise I have to stop and dismount if I don't want to compromise the torque sensor calibration process.

No issues with calibration that I'm aware of. Either have feet off the pedals when powering up, or slow reversing action if I power on while moving, both actions seem to avoid the issues other users have reported. Haven't waited more than 2,3 seconds between powering on and applying power to the pedals.

Seems like this technique could solve this problem.

 

[vailbiker]

[/quote]
How do you keep it from automatically turning off while riding in unassisted mode. Nobody seems to be concerned with it. Don't know any other way around it but to periodically turn on the assist after every 5 minutes or so, otherwise I have to stop and dismount if I don't want to compromise the torque sensor calibration process.

No issues with calibration that I'm aware of. Either have feet off the pedals when powering up, or slow reversing action if I power on while moving, both actions seem to avoid the issues other users have reported. Haven't waited more than 2,3 seconds between powering on and applying power to the pedals.

Seems like this technique could solve this problem.
[/quote]

In my experience, there is no need to do anything. I think that as long as the speed sensor picking up readings, the unit doesn't power down. I have run it in unassisted mode for close to an hour without it shutting down.

 

[Rydon]

I have a 2015 Krampus I would like to try with a TSDZ2 as well. My biggest concern is the diameter of the reduction gear housing and if it might clear the forged chainstay yoke used on the Krampus. I have been unable to find this dimension on any drawing online. Like you, I am trying to avoid the excessive use of spacers that would drive out the chainline. If anyone can quote me the diameter of the reduction gear housing on the driveside it would be appreciated ...

It's about 135mm not counting the bolt flanges that stick out.

 

[Pedrito]

How do you keep it from automatically turning off while riding in unassisted mode. Nobody seems to be concerned with it. Don't know any other way around it but to periodically turn on the assist after every 5 minutes or so, otherwise I have to stop and dismount if I don't want to compromise the torque sensor calibration process.

No issues with calibration that I'm aware of. Either have feet off the pedals when powering up, or slow reversing action if I power on while moving, both actions seem to avoid the issues other users have reported. Haven't waited more than 2,3 seconds between powering on and applying power to the pedals.

Seems like this technique could solve this problem.
[/quote]

In my experience, there is no need to do anything. I think that as long as the speed sensor picking up readings, the unit doesn't power down. I have run it in unassisted mode for close to an hour without it shutting down.
[/quote]

While the bike is in motion and the speed sensor is working, the screen never goes off

 

[ancan]

Hi,

After about 50km with the original firmware, I got a package from Singapore yesterday, with the things needed for the Open Source f/w upgrade, Reprogramming the display was trivial, but the motor caused be issues with constant read errors and programming failures, and after an hour of shortening cables and cursing I gave up, and thought it was caused by my crap ST-LINK V2 adapter.

However, on my desk was sitting the spare controller I bought to get some contact or whatever from, and I though I'd give it a try. Surprisingly, the ST-LINK had no problems whatever talking to this controller, and I've read and written firmware multiple times to it without issues.

So naturally I replaced the orginial controller with this one, and just did a quick test to confirm it's working, and so far so good! Apparently programming issues can be hit-an-miss not only depending on which ST-LINK adapter you're using, but also vary from controller to controller, so I'd recommend anyone that plan to do this to go with the extra controller option. I don't remember what I was supposed to steal from the extra controller (everything's connected without cannibalizing any controllers), but glad I bought one.

TLDR: Programming failures can be related to the individual controller as well as the ST-LINK V2 adapter and wire-lengths.

 

[cafu02]

Hi,

After about 50km with the original firmware, I got a package from Singapore yesterday, with the things needed for the Open Source f/w upgrade, Reprogramming the display was trivial, but the motor caused be issues with constant read errors and programming failures, and after an hour of shortening cables and cursing I gave up, and thought it was caused by my crap ST-LINK V2 adapter.

However, on my desk was sitting the spare controller I bought to get some contact or whatever from, and I though I'd give it a try. Surprisingly, the ST-LINK had no problems whatever talking to this controller, and I've read and written firmware multiple times to it without issues.

So naturally I replaced the orginial controller with this one, and just did a quick test to confirm it's working, and so far so good! Apparently programming issues can be hit-an-miss not only depending on which ST-LINK adapter you're using, but also vary from controller to controller, so I'd recommend anyone that plan to do this to go with the extra controller option. I don't remember what I was supposed to steal from the extra controller (everything's connected without cannibalizing any controllers), but glad I bought one.

TLDR: Programming failures can be related to the individual controller as well as the ST-LINK V2 adapter and wire-lengths.

Thanks for the updated information.
I Have my motor which has the 6 Pin connector without throttle and breaks
I'm looking to order the parts needed to completed the FOS Firmware.
Where did you purchased the kit needed
Thanks

 

[ancan]

Hi,

After about 50km with the original firmware, I got a package from Singapore yesterday, with the things needed for the Open Source f/w upgrade, Reprogramming the display was trivial, but the motor caused be issues with constant read errors and programming failures, and after an hour of shortening cables and cursing I gave up, and thought it was caused by my crap ST-LINK V2 adapter.

However, on my desk was sitting the spare controller I bought to get some contact or whatever from, and I though I'd give it a try. Surprisingly, the ST-LINK had no problems whatever talking to this controller, and I've read and written firmware multiple times to it without issues.

So naturally I replaced the orginial controller with this one, and just did a quick test to confirm it's working, and so far so good! Apparently programming issues can be hit-an-miss not only depending on which ST-LINK adapter you're using, but also vary from controller to controller, so I'd recommend anyone that plan to do this to go with the extra controller option. I don't remember what I was supposed to steal from the extra controller (everything's connected without cannibalizing any controllers), but glad I bought one.

TLDR: Programming failures can be related to the individual controller as well as the ST-LINK V2 adapter and wire-lengths.

Thanks for the updated information.
I Have my motor which has the 6 Pin connector without throttle and breaks
I'm looking to order the parts needed to completed the FOS Firmware.
Where did you purchased the kit needed
Thanks

I got it from pswpower.com, except the ST-LINK V2 that I got from eBay seller "nouteclab"
* ST-LINK V2 (Different pinout than the one used in the wiki).
* KT-LCD3
* Controller
* Extra speed sensor for the contact used for programming.
* (And a bronze gear just in case the blue breaks).

 

[btslo]

I got it from pswpower.com, except the ST-LINK V2 that I got from eBay seller "nouteclab"
* ST-LINK V2 (Different pinout than the one used in the wiki).
* KT-LCD3
* Controller
* Extra speed sensor for the contact used for programming.
* (And a bronze gear just in case the blue breaks).

What was your original LCD? Does anyone have a spare VLCD6 for sale? (the small one)

Hi,

After about 50km with the original firmware, I got a package from Singapore yesterday, with the things needed for the Open Source f/w upgrade, Reprogramming the display was trivial, but the motor caused be issues with constant read errors and programming failures, and after an hour of shortening cables and cursing I gave up, and thought it was caused by my crap ST-LINK V2 adapter.

However, on my desk was sitting the spare controller I bought to get some contact or whatever from, and I though I'd give it a try. Surprisingly, the ST-LINK had no problems whatever talking to this controller, and I've read and written firmware multiple times to it without issues.

So naturally I replaced the orginial controller with this one, and just did a quick test to confirm it's working, and so far so good! Apparently programming issues can be hit-an-miss not only depending on which ST-LINK adapter you're using, but also vary from controller to controller, so I'd recommend anyone that plan to do this to go with the extra controller option. I don't remember what I was supposed to steal from the extra controller (everything's connected without cannibalizing any controllers), but glad I bought one.

TLDR: Programming failures can be related to the individual controller as well as the ST-LINK V2 adapter and wire-lengths.

Thanks for the updated information.
I Have my motor which has the 6 Pin connector without throttle and breaks
I'm looking to order the parts needed to completed the FOS Firmware.
Where did you purchased the kit needed
Thanks

You can get the extension cable here which should work for flashing: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Bollfit-Free-Shipping-Throttle-1T2-cable-wire-1in2-Bus-Cable-for-tsdz2-eBike-Mid-Drive-Motor/32957265043.html?tt=sns_none&aff_platform=default&cpt=1555509621897&sk=baRBtT1f&aff_trace_key=31850633b776487f8c3f5f01f40c81af-1555509621897-00776-baRBtT1f&terminal_id=c6c4907cbf3b4cfd8223155755e38c5b

 

[Cristian]

Thank you for the reply. Yes, the power drawn from the motor is shown on the display.

The power output doesn't seem to be affected in any way, all is working like normal, just no speed.

Has the magnet fallen off or too far or too close? Water in speed sensor plug / socket? Want about 5mm gap (alot more than a bike Speedo)

OMG, this was very stupid of me. The magnet was moved further down the spoke, so it wasn't aligning properly with the sensor. I just repositioned it and the speed is showing as before.

On the other hand, i just installed the temperature sensor today. I went out and did 17km trip of hard riding in the city, on assist level 9, and the motor temp. went as high as 57°C. As soon as i would stop at a red light it would start to come down a few degrees. I arrived back home with a temperature of 44°C. Doesn't seem to get hot at all, and the power level reached 700-800W often. Probably because it's only 16°C outside and a bit windy. We'll see how it will do in the summer heat, that will be a different story.

I'm getting a bit confused with the configuration menu. I see that some things in the menu have changed since the wiki page was created. Does anyone have updated information on this one?

 

[sysrq]

How do you keep it from automatically turning off while riding in unassisted mode. Nobody seems to be concerned with it. Don't know any other way around it but to periodically turn on the assist after every 5 minutes or so, otherwise I have to stop and dismount if I don't want to compromise the torque sensor calibration process.

No issues with calibration that I'm aware of. Either have feet off the pedals when powering up, or slow reversing action if I power on while moving, both actions seem to avoid the issues other users have reported. Haven't waited more than 2,3 seconds between powering on and applying power to the pedals.

Seems like this technique could solve this problem.

[/quote]
In my experience, there is no need to do anything. I think that as long as the speed sensor picking up readings, the unit doesn't power down. I have run it in unassisted mode for close to an hour without it shutting down.
While the bike is in motion and the speed sensor is working, the screen never goes off
[/quote]

Not in my case for some strange reason. The speed sensor is working fine. Could it be normal for xh18 display? Even if the problem is ''solved'' by pedaling backwards during the calibration process it doesn't do any good since one will waste time and speed when the assistance is needed the most at the most inconvenient and unexpected situations.