New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

[cafu02]

Hi,

After about 50km with the original firmware, I got a package from Singapore yesterday, with the things needed for the Open Source f/w upgrade, Reprogramming the display was trivial, but the motor caused be issues with constant read errors and programming failures, and after an hour of shortening cables and cursing I gave up, and thought it was caused by my crap ST-LINK V2 adapter.

However, on my desk was sitting the spare controller I bought to get some contact or whatever from, and I though I'd give it a try. Surprisingly, the ST-LINK had no problems whatever talking to this controller, and I've read and written firmware multiple times to it without issues.

So naturally I replaced the orginial controller with this one, and just did a quick test to confirm it's working, and so far so good! Apparently programming issues can be hit-an-miss not only depending on which ST-LINK adapter you're using, but also vary from controller to controller, so I'd recommend anyone that plan to do this to go with the extra controller option. I don't remember what I was supposed to steal from the extra controller (everything's connected without cannibalizing any controllers), but glad I bought one.

TLDR: Programming failures can be related to the individual controller as well as the ST-LINK V2 adapter and wire-lengths.

Thanks for the updated information.
I Have my motor which has the 6 Pin connector without throttle and breaks
I'm looking to order the parts needed to completed the FOS Firmware.
Where did you purchased the kit needed
Thanks

I got it from pswpower.com, except the ST-LINK V2 that I got from eBay seller "nouteclab"
* ST-LINK V2 (Different pinout than the one used in the wiki).
* KT-LCD3
* Controller
* Extra speed sensor for the contact used for programming.
* (And a bronze gear just in case the blue breaks).

Perfect
Thanks much
Going to order some parts

 

[Rydon]

Hi,

After about 50km with the original firmware, I got a package from Singapore yesterday, with the things needed for the Open Source f/w upgrade, Reprogramming the display was trivial, but the motor caused be issues with constant read errors and programming failures, and after an hour of shortening cables and cursing I gave up, and thought it was caused by my crap ST-LINK V2 adapter.

However, on my desk was sitting the spare controller I bought to get some contact or whatever from, and I though I'd give it a try. Surprisingly, the ST-LINK had no problems whatever talking to this controller, and I've read and written firmware multiple times to it without issues.

So naturally I replaced the orginial controller with this one, and just did a quick test to confirm it's working, and so far so good! Apparently programming issues can be hit-an-miss not only depending on which ST-LINK adapter you're using, but also vary from controller to controller, so I'd recommend anyone that plan to do this to go with the extra controller option. I don't remember what I was supposed to steal from the extra controller (everything's connected without cannibalizing any controllers), but glad I bought one.

TLDR: Programming failures can be related to the individual controller as well as the ST-LINK V2 adapter and wire-lengths.

Just curious, did you try 3.3v instead of 5v on the ST-Link without the battery hooked up to the controller? I have found 3.3v without the battery hooked up to work much more reliably across different cable lengths and controllers.

 

[ancan]

Hi,

After about 50km with the original firmware, I got a package from Singapore yesterday, with the things needed for the Open Source f/w upgrade, Reprogramming the display was trivial, but the motor caused be issues with constant read errors and programming failures, and after an hour of shortening cables and cursing I gave up, and thought it was caused by my crap ST-LINK V2 adapter.

However, on my desk was sitting the spare controller I bought to get some contact or whatever from, and I though I'd give it a try. Surprisingly, the ST-LINK had no problems whatever talking to this controller, and I've read and written firmware multiple times to it without issues.

So naturally I replaced the orginial controller with this one, and just did a quick test to confirm it's working, and so far so good! Apparently programming issues can be hit-an-miss not only depending on which ST-LINK adapter you're using, but also vary from controller to controller, so I'd recommend anyone that plan to do this to go with the extra controller option. I don't remember what I was supposed to steal from the extra controller (everything's connected without cannibalizing any controllers), but glad I bought one.

TLDR: Programming failures can be related to the individual controller as well as the ST-LINK V2 adapter and wire-lengths.

Just curious, did you try 3.3v instead of 5v on the ST-Link without the battery hooked up to the controller? I have found 3.3v without the battery hooked up to work much more reliably across different cable lengths and controllers.

Nope, but I might give it a try since I now got the original controller on the desk.

 

[cafu02]

Hi,

After about 50km with the original firmware, I got a package from Singapore yesterday, with the things needed for the Open Source f/w upgrade, Reprogramming the display was trivial, but the motor caused be issues with constant read errors and programming failures, and after an hour of shortening cables and cursing I gave up, and thought it was caused by my crap ST-LINK V2 adapter.

However, on my desk was sitting the spare controller I bought to get some contact or whatever from, and I though I'd give it a try. Surprisingly, the ST-LINK had no problems whatever talking to this controller, and I've read and written firmware multiple times to it without issues.

So naturally I replaced the orginial controller with this one, and just did a quick test to confirm it's working, and so far so good! Apparently programming issues can be hit-an-miss not only depending on which ST-LINK adapter you're using, but also vary from controller to controller, so I'd recommend anyone that plan to do this to go with the extra controller option. I don't remember what I was supposed to steal from the extra controller (everything's connected without cannibalizing any controllers), but glad I bought one.

TLDR: Programming failures can be related to the individual controller as well as the ST-LINK V2 adapter and wire-lengths.

Just curious, did you try 3.3v instead of 5v on the ST-Link without the battery hooked up to the controller? I have found 3.3v without the battery hooked up to work much more reliably across different cable lengths and controllers.

Nope, but I might give it a try since I now got the original controller on the desk.

Was the replacement the 6 or 8 pin connector?
I have the 6pin and thinking about just ordering the 8 pin controller and keep the original just in case.

 

[jtsavola]

Hey which grease you used for blue gear? Tried to catch original FT-EM50L in europe webshops but no success. Sure you will get if ordered several kilos. Anyone knows where to get small tube? For Bafang gears found some has used Mobilgrease 28. Anyone tried?

https://electricbike-blog.com/2015/12/23/mobilgrease-28-bbshdbbs02-because-a-good-mid-drive-is-better-seen-and-not-heard/

 

[el_proletario]

Hey which grease you used for blue gear? Tried to catch original FT-EM50L in europe webshops but no success. Sure you will get if ordered several kilos. Anyone knows where to get small tube? For Bafang gears found some has used Mobilgrease 28. Anyone tried?

https://electricbike-blog.com/2015/12/23/mobilgrease-28-bbshdbbs02-because-a-good-mid-drive-is-better-seen-and-not-heard/

I used this bearing grease not only for the blue gear but all the gears :

Nigrin 74145 Mehrzweckfett, Tube 250 ml https://www.amazon.de/dp/B001BAU3VY/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_DeKUCbVW89SX8

 

[hefest]

Hey which grease you used for blue gear? Tried to catch original FT-EM50L in europe webshops but no success. Sure you will get if ordered several kilos. Anyone knows where to get small tube? For Bafang gears found some has used Mobilgrease 28. Anyone tried?

https://electricbike-blog.com/2015/12/23/mobilgrease-28-bbshdbbs02-because-a-good-mid-drive-is-better-seen-and-not-heard/

I used this bearing grease not only for the blue gear but all the gears :

Nigrin 74145 Mehrzweckfett, Tube 250 ml https://www.amazon.de/dp/B001BAU3VY/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_DeKUCbVW89SX8

I don't think this grease is good for plastic blue gear.

This one should be more appropriate

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.de%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F132760750196

 

[el_proletario]

Hey which grease you used for blue gear? Tried to catch original FT-EM50L in europe webshops but no success. Sure you will get if ordered several kilos. Anyone knows where to get small tube? For Bafang gears found some has used Mobilgrease 28. Anyone tried?

https://electricbike-blog.com/2015/12/23/mobilgrease-28-bbshdbbs02-because-a-good-mid-drive-is-better-seen-and-not-heard/

I used this bearing grease not only for the blue gear but all the gears :

Nigrin 74145 Mehrzweckfett, Tube 250 ml https://www.amazon.de/dp/B001BAU3VY/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_DeKUCbVW89SX8

I don't think this grease is good for plastic blue gear.

This one should be more appropriate

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.de%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F132760750196

Thanks for the link, I'll probably try it. This one is more "liquid" and therefore better for the plastic?
Another seller sells a smaller amount for 17€.

I have a spare blue and metal gear so I won't change it for the moment, once i feel there's a problem I'll swap the gear and try this grease instead.

 

[hefest]

Hey which grease you used for blue gear? Tried to catch original FT-EM50L in europe webshops but no success. Sure you will get if ordered several kilos. Anyone knows where to get small tube? For Bafang gears found some has used Mobilgrease 28. Anyone tried?

https://electricbike-blog.com/2015/12/23/mobilgrease-28-bbshdbbs02-because-a-good-mid-drive-is-better-seen-and-not-heard/

I used this bearing grease not only for the blue gear but all the gears :

Nigrin 74145 Mehrzweckfett, Tube 250 ml https://www.amazon.de/dp/B001BAU3VY/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_DeKUCbVW89SX8

I don't think this grease is good for plastic blue gear.

This one should be more appropriate

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.de%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F132760750196

Thanks for the link, I'll probably try it. This one is more "liquid" and therefore better for the plastic?
Another seller sells a smaller amount for 17€.

I have a spare blue and metal gear so I won't change it for the moment, once i feel there's a problem I'll swap the gear and try this grease instead.

It's not "more liquid" but it doesn't contain anti-corrosion additives which could weaken the plastic and ruin the blue gear. Grease I mentioned is suited for plastic gears. Truth be told, it should be NLGI 1 (more liquid) instead of NLGI 2 but I couldn't find anything else that doesn't cost arm and a leg.


I was thinking about metal gear and decided to get another blue gear as a spare. Reasoning behind it is that i believe designers of tsdz2 and bafang have they reason for why it's plastic gear in the first place. I also don't want it to be too loud.

I'm still waiting on my tsdz2 to arrive so I can finally start assembling everything. If I don't get it soon I'll start drowning in stuff I'm ordering "just in case". Already ordered replacement rigid front fork instead of the cheap suspension one. Circuitry to cut off battery charger at certain voltage to prevent battery charging over 90% or so. Replacement brake pads, new pedals, spacers for BB, grease and spare parts for tsdz2, , bunch of bicycle maintenance tools. I even ordered torque wrench.

 

[casainho]

I was thinking about metal gear and decided to get another blue gear as a spare. Reasoning behind it is that i believe designers of tsdz2 and bafang have they reason for why it's plastic gear in the first place. I also don't want it to be too loud.

When I got my TSDZ2, without brake sensors installed and with the original blue gear and original firmware, after only 20 km/s the blue gear was damage!!

After I went to the metal but sure it was loud and I did not like it much...

Now, with our OpenSource firmware, brake sensors installed and current ramp increase step configured at 5 amps/second, I am being doing a lot of km/s with the blue gear and I am very happy!!

I really think that brake sensors and the configurable current ramp increase step at a relative low value as 5 amps/second, saves the blue gear.

 

[hefest]

I was thinking about metal gear and decided to get another blue gear as a spare. Reasoning behind it is that i believe designers of tsdz2 and bafang have they reason for why it's plastic gear in the first place. I also don't want it to be too loud.

When I got my TSDZ2, without brake sensors installed and with the original blue gear and original firmware, after only 20 km/s the blue gear was damage!!

After I went to the metal but sure it was loud and I did not like it much...

Now, with our OpenSource firmware, brake sensors installed and current ramp increase step configured at 5 amps/second, I am being doing a lot of km/s with the blue gear and I am very happy!!

I really think that brake sensors and the configurable current ramp increase step at a relative low value as 5 amps/second, saves the blue gear.

To be honest, I'm definitely going to install opensource firmware and almost ordered everything needed with kt-lcd3, but than I saw you developing 850c support and now even sw102 which looks much better than kt-lcd3. Wanted to wait for sw102 (or 850c). I ordered 8pin version with brake sensors and throttle (tbh I don't need throttle). Since I'm developer by trade and handy with soldering, I wanted to contribute but my 3 year old and day job are not leaving me much time.

 

[el_proletario]

I used this bearing grease not only for the blue gear but all the gears :

Nigrin 74145 Mehrzweckfett, Tube 250 ml https://www.amazon.de/dp/B001BAU3VY/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_DeKUCbVW89SX8

I don't think this grease is good for plastic blue gear.

This one should be more appropriate

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.de%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F132760750196

Thanks for the link, I'll probably try it. This one is more "liquid" and therefore better for the plastic?
Another seller sells a smaller amount for 17€.

I have a spare blue and metal gear so I won't change it for the moment, once i feel there's a problem I'll swap the gear and try this grease instead.

It's not "more liquid" but it doesn't contain anti-corrosion additives which could weaken the plastic and ruin the blue gear. Grease I mentioned is suited for plastic gears. Truth be told, it should be NLGI 1 (more liquid) instead of NLGI 2 but I couldn't find anything else that doesn't cost arm and a leg.


I was thinking about metal gear and decided to get another blue gear as a spare. Reasoning behind it is that i believe designers of tsdz2 and bafang have they reason for why it's plastic gear in the first place. I also don't want it to be too loud.

I'm still waiting on my tsdz2 to arrive so I can finally start assembling everything. If I don't get it soon I'll start drowning in stuff I'm ordering "just in case". Already ordered replacement rigid front fork instead of the cheap suspension one. Circuitry to cut off battery charger at certain voltage to prevent battery charging over 90% or so. Replacement brake pads, new pedals, spacers for BB, grease and spare parts for tsdz2, , bunch of bicycle maintenance tools. I even ordered torque wrench.

Same here. In a couple of months with this motor and the forum I feel I became a professional bicycle mechanic and bought the right tools as I learn.
Torque wrench is definitely needed, especially that our bikes can go really fast, better not to over/under tighten something, as at 40km/h when something breaks it can be fatal.

 

[Retrorockit]

I ordered a speed sensor Y cable, and wiring harness for lights to run off of the controller. But the light offered aren't good enough for my purposes. No dyalight strobe, and not designed as a primary headlight for fast night riding. I would like to power an older 350 lumen Niterider offroad headlight from the battery. It has a very aggressive daytime strobe and is bright enough for night time road work. I suppose a taillight could be full time strobe. I'm not sure what Voltage the light is. It charges off of a USB but that connector disables the light function. I'm not really sure what I'm getting into here, and maybe something better already exists?

FWIW I ordered a spare blue gear. I'm thinking that with the fragile 7 speed IGH a metal gear might not be the way to go.

I did some fork tuning on my Trek Navigator project. This is for fast level pavement running. Smooth ride but sharp response for dodging car doors etc. Not for rough roads, or loose surfaces.
https://electricbike.com/forum/forum/main-forum/diy-discussion/82828-trek-navigator-400-igh-tsdz2-project/page3

 

[knutselmaaster]

I ordered a speed sensor Y cable, and wiring harness for lights to run off of the controller. But the light offered aren't good enough for my purposes. No dyalight strobe, and not designed as a primary headlight for fast night riding. I would like to power an older 350 lumen Niterider offroad headlight from the battery. It has a very aggressive daytime strobe and is bright enough for night time road work. I suppose a taillight could be full time strobe. I'm not sure what Voltage the light is. It charges off of a USB but that connector disables the light function. I'm not really sure what I'm getting into here, and maybe something better already exists?

FWIW I ordered a spare blue gear. I'm thinking that with the fragile 7 speed IGH a metal gear might not be the way to go.

I did some fork tuning on my Trek Navigator project. This is for fast level pavement running. Smooth ride but sharp response for dodging car doors etc. Not for rough roads, or loose surfaces.
https://electricbike.com/forum/forum/main-forum/diy-discussion/82828-trek-navigator-400-igh-tsdz2-project/page3

There is a nice and easy to do relay tutorial a few pages back.

 

[el_proletario]

Thanks for sharing the experience.
Where did you find the coaster brake official firmware ? I'm desperately looking for it. You installed it with the same procedure as the open source firmware?
I have a coaster brake motor with the wrong firmware installed (mistake by seller after I sent it for repair). The jump forward after stopping to pedal is really not pleasant and I want to install the right firmware.

I have a database of all stock firmware as well as many profile I had created myself...and of course some 'tried and true' open source/maroq versions as well...

here is a link to a folder with some files...

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1eGcBtTj8GrGQ4tDJAECr6ejMrpW2ZqvH?usp=sharing

look for 36v6pincoasterbrake files for programmemory and datamemory...make sure you use them both...there is also STOCKOPTIONBYTE if this has been modified, you will need to reload this as well...

Thank you so much!

 

[el_proletario]

Anyone in Europe selling an St link with the cable already soldered ?
Or if not selling, lending it for a fee and I'll use it basically just one day to put the original firmware back to my motor as the wrong one is currently on it. (Non coaster brake)

Naturally I'll pay the post costs as well via PayPal.
I could make everything by myself but it's impossible to get the speed sensor extension cable, either sold out on AliExpress or from the US where they won't ship to Europe.

Please PM me if you are willing to sell or lend it to me. (I live in Germany)

Thanks

 

[casainho]

You can buy from PSWpower, they ship relatively fast to Europe.

 

[torque72]

Hi, I have a 48V TSDZ2 and installed casainho's V0.18.2. Everything working fine so far, but I do have a heat dissipation problem similar to others.
When running continously at 500..600W displayed power, the motor heats up to 85°C very quickly (temperature sensor is installed). Test drives were at 10..20°C ambient.
I live in a hilly region, my way home from work is 10km with 400m of climb. That results in full power most of the time (no speed limitation).
Without measures, my motor was at its temperature limits after ~5km.
I then filled the gap between the motor and the case with a lot of grease. Awful, but I can now almost manage the 10km without overheating. The case heats up much more now, to some 55°C (I can just manage to keep my hand on the case), which shows that the thermal conduction between motor and case is somewhat improved. But I also had to increase the temperature limit by 10° compared to the defaults.

Just as a comparison, with the 500..600W, the bike is faster uphills (14%o) than my old Bosch classic (45km/h version) but slightly slower than my daughters Bosch Performance CX. But both Bosch can go much longer before overheating.

Anyone has similar experience, or better measurements to increase the thermal conduction? Anyone also increased the defaults for the limit?

 

[knutselmaaster]

In my latest order, I received a mix of motors with silver spiders and black spiders. Up until now all motors I received had black spiders.
Is the silver spider a new version of the motor?

 

[Rydon]

In my latest order, I received a mix of motors with silver spiders and black spiders. Up until now all motors I received had black spiders.
Is the silver spider a new version of the motor?

The silver ones are older motors. If the rubber seal pops out easily they are definitely the older style. I haven't seen any of them for over a year.

 

[knutselmaaster]

Argh that is bad news...
I will use that one as a exhibition model in the shop then.

 

[Mike-P]

Got my double chainring fitted, the stripped crank came off when a faced with a brand new crank tool, now sure what it gripped onto as but must have been just enough thread to grip. Front derailleur fitted and working - slight chain rub on some chainring (38 and 48) 7 speed cartridge settings at the present - just a case of tweaking it so the most frequently used combinations are okay.
Derailleur is a Shimano SLX M676 fitted to a Origin 8 Direct Mount Adapter ref. no. 26836.
The mount was actually too wide but then I realised the distance it was too wide was approximately that of the Shimano Front Mech Adapter Clamp Band I had used as the seat tube was 31.8mm. So with the adapter mounted hard up against the seat tube and the clamp bands modified to take up the excess space on the far side of the seat tube the front derailleur became correctly positioned.
View attachment 1
The cable is routed from below - I used the relevant part of an old type derailleur guide to route the cable, bolted in place along with a cable tie although I suspect the latter is not necessary given the cable tension. Routing a cable from above is probably a simpler solution but the top bar on the bike is relatively thin and I did not want to weaken it by drilling it for cable mounts.

 

[nomidis]

Guys, I need your experience!
I v got the TSDZ2 48V.
I bought the default kit from pswpower and installed it myself on my 700c trekking bike.

I use it about 20 days now, done about 200km, no problem.

The only thing is that I m pretty sure the tachometer..
I m pretty sure the displayed speed is a bit more than the reality (i am comparing it to gps).
I guess it is about 10-15% more.

How can I fix this?

The setting I ve put in the configuration wizard is "700".
Should I change it to something else?

 

[casainho]

Guys, I need your experience!
I v got the TSDZ2 48V.
I bought the default kit from pswpower and installed it myself on my 700c trekking bike.

I use it about 20 days now, done about 200km, no problem.

The only thing is that I m pretty sure the tachometer..
I m pretty sure the displayed speed is a bit more than the reality (i am comparing it to gps).
I guess it is about 10-15% more.

How can I fix this?

The setting I ve put in the configuration wizard is "700".
Should I change it to something else?

Install our OpenSource firmware where you can setup the exactly value of the wheel perimeter of your ebike (you should measure it with a tape), this way you should get very good values near the GPS.

 

[nomidis]

That would require to buy some equipment right?
I would prefer to stick with this original firmware for a couple of months..

Is there no other solution for this?
(If not, ok, I can live with it) :wink: