New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

[safeaschuck]

Hi,
I have improved axle play, now I realised from a video on here recently that someone has used feeler gauges already but this is not as great in the torque sensor/axle through hole.
The hardness of the materials means they may bind together. As some said it is better than nothing.

Different people may have different problems. I suspect that the parts are all different sizes, this is what happens when things are made to a price level not a quality standard. Some do not wobble at all probably. I do not think it makes any difference if you buy from Europe, America or China. Same factory, same machine, same operator. Maybe there are special arrangements. I think probably not. Anyway, we have very, very cheap ebikes that may be 1/10th the price of a powerful purpose built machine so we improvise.

Here are my issues with moving pedals.
Micrometer measurement, Non drive side - 14.88mm, 0.12mm undersize. This is why the ball bearing is loose on the shaft.

Measurement on drive side is actually VERY close to 15mm meaning Torque sensor hole is likely oversize.

Picture showing why the axle wobbles. this is why my pedals feel like they are moving left to right instead of only round and round.

Here is my proposal, it has not been tested over a long period of time on this application. hopefully it will work O.K.

Non-Drive side, Feeler gauges:

Drive side, Nylon or PTFE Wafer + Heat gun + sandpaper:
I had to have several attempts to properly attach the nylon here, it is tricky and although it stuck very well in the end, this may not last forever. This picture shows an early attempt, in the end I refined the system by making wafers of nylon with a hand plane, heated them with a heat gun until they melted enough to adhere to the axle then sanded them down until they were very, very thin. You have to be careful inserting and removing the axle, it interferes with the wires from the hall sensor. Don't push too hard, you might break the wires, a little twist may help, taking it out and gently flattening the wires inside the torque sensor with a screwdriver so they do not protrude into the hole can help sometimes . When sanding down the nylon bit by bit try test fitting through the other end until you have a good fit, not constantly pushing the axle all the way through the torque sensor to test.

Also my 2mm wider high quality needle roller bearings have arrived, I will fit them next time I have the motor apart. Does anyone know the best way to disconnect the hall sensor?

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Also I would like to make my own throttle but I cannot make sense of the resistance readings I am getting from the stock Item. 10 ohm across one contact pair, 20 and 30 across the others.
Resistance does not change when the throttle is applied.
Is the throttle a variable resistor inside?
Does anyone know the range of values from zero to max throttle?

Aaaand, I have a gear sensor to fit.
I would like to use 2 brake sensors as well.
The 860C has no inputs for sensors.
I have had a search for the info on here but did not find it.

Does anyone have or could they make a very simple wiring diagram that shows a wiring loom with the following:
8 wire TSDZ2 controller
860C Display (same as 850 yes?)
Throttle
3 wire brake sensors x 2
3 wire gear sensor x 1.

I assume the gear and brake sensors wires all join, I just don't know where they go when they are joined...
Thank You.
Looking forward to trying the firmware as soon as my step up buck booster finally arrives from china!!! version 1.0 will be my first ever go!

 

[vshitikov]

Does anyone have or could they make a very simple wiring diagram that shows a wiring loom with the following:
8 wire TSDZ2 controller
860C Display (same as 850 yes?)
Throttle
3 wire brake sensors x 2
3 wire gear sensor x 1.

I assume the gear and brake sensors wires all join, I just don't know where they go when they are joined...
Thank You.
Looking forward to trying the firmware as soon as my step up buck booster finally arrives from china!!! version 1.0 will be my first ever go!

Hi. Impressive tutorial. I will try to rework mine sometimes as it wobbles after a hundred kilometers.

 

[Darkerside]

@ilu - I misunderstood what was going on here. In my mind the crack spider was connected to the crank arm, but that's not the case. When I tested for lateral movement I was pushing on the crank (which is solid), but the spider does have play in it. Eg:

Taking the spider off, there's definitely movement back and forth along the axle of what I guess is the sprag clutch and spider securing ring up against the large circlip (arrowed below). It's not much, but I guess even a little play there is enough to give a noticeable amount of wobble in the front cog.

I'll have another look at those EcoCycles instructions, and see how thin a washer I can find online. It's nowhere near 0.5mm of travel, so might be a challenge to pack it in any better than it is already.

 

[romelec]

I'll have another look at those EcoCycles instructions, and see how thin a washer I can find online. It's nowhere near 0.5mm of travel, so might be a challenge to pack it in any better than it is already.

If you are from Europe: https://www.visseriefixations.fr/rondelles-circlips/rondelles-diverses/calage/rondelle-de-calage-acier-brut-din-988.html (they have different sites for countries other than France)
They don't have 16mm ones but the shaft is 15mm, so the 15mm ones should fit.

Maybe some shims for the sprag clutch could help for the wobble ?
They have 30mm too, it might be worth ordering a few 0.1/0.2mm ones.

 

[jeff.page.rides]

@ilu - I misunderstood what was going on here. In my mind the crack spider was connected to the crank arm, but that's not the case. When I tested for lateral movement I was pushing on the crank (which is solid), but the spider does have play in it. Eg:

Taking the spider off, there's definitely movement back and forth along the axle of what I guess is the sprag clutch and spider securing ring up against the large circlip (arrowed below). It's not much, but I guess even a little play there is enough to give a noticeable amount of wobble in the front cog.

I'll have another look at those EcoCycles instructions, and see how thin a washer I can find online. It's nowhere near 0.5mm of travel, so might be a challenge to pack it in any better than it is already.

Look for shims, not washers. Shims come and exact thickness and washers don't.

 

[ilu]

I'll have another look at those EcoCycles instructions, and see how thin a washer I can find online. It's nowhere near 0.5mm of travel, so might be a challenge to pack it in any better than it is already.

Look for shims, not washers. Shims come and exact thickness and washers don't.

Yeah I had trouble finding shims online with reasonable shipping costs, but then I found out the right name of the part in Finnish and realized there's at least two shops locally that sell them. Not basic hardware stores though but ones specializing in bearings and such.

 

[workwear_enthusiast]

Hope you don't mind - I'm looking for help in the Paris area:

I installed a TSDZ2 motor with the SW102 display, both with 0.19 version open-source firmware, on a friend's bike when I was in Paris, France. Now they're having problems, getting a "No Motor" error on startup (but full voltage from the battery), and I'm in Australia and it's hard for me to troubleshoot with them. Is there anyone in the Paris area that might be willing to have a look and/or fix it (happy to pay a fee of course), or anyone know any e-bike mechanics that are familiar with the open-source TSDZ2? Thank you so much in advance

 

[casainho]

Hope you don't mind - I'm looking for help in the Paris area:

I installed a TSDZ2 motor with the SW102 display, both with 0.19 version open-source firmware, on a friend's bike when I was in Paris, France. Now they're having problems, getting a "No Motor" error on startup (but full voltage from the battery), and I'm in Australia and it's hard for me to troubleshoot with them. Is there anyone in the Paris area that might be willing to have a look and/or fix it (happy to pay a fee of course), or anyone know any e-bike mechanics that are familiar with the open-source TSDZ2? Thank you so much in advance

If it was working before but not now, the problem is probably communication failing from motor controller to the display. I would bet on a bad contact on connectors or some wire that broke. Or for some reason the motor controller is not working anymore, but probably less unlikly.

 

[dameri]

My tsdz2 has behaved strangely. Sometimes gives a very good assist and sometimes very badly.

I started adjusting the torque sensor. I measured its value first and it was 157. The minimum value I can adjust it to is 64 (should get to values of 25-30). Is the sensor simply broken.

 

[frogeye61]

Hi, first post.

I live in Denmark and have recently purchased a TDSZ2 with VLCD5 display from elifebike2010 on ebay out of Germany. Everything seems fine and went straight on the bike, except I have a Christania cykel, 3 wheel cargo cycle so I had to modify the frame slightly, which I expected, and finished very well. I thought the motor was hacking a bit at low speed, so I installed three magnets on the rear wheel and set-up the controller to accept three magnets. It worked fine, smoother at low speeds (it is after all a cargo bike), but the speed limiter (set at 15 kmh) would then stop auxiliary power at 5 kmh. I set the limit to 45 kmh and the auxiliary power then limited at 15 kmh. Small software bug, but I could live with that.

Anyway, my daughter has been riding the cykel for maybe 40-50 km and it's been working very well until: gradually (quickly) the motor started acting up, doing things it shouldn't do, like driving itself when stopped, power surging, limiting speed to 2 kmh etc. This went on for a day or two then suddenly pretty much everything stopped working properly.

Mostly small things; speed indicator and odometer indicator went to mph from kmh, odo reads 9999, speed doesn't register at all while in motion. The big thing is motor assist works - though only up to around 2 kmh.

But the big problem!
If I push the "I" button, the control panel bricks and I would have to disconnect battery supply and restart to do anything, but even still the power assist works - to 2 kmh.

When I first turn the power on, the power settings work and I can turn the display off by pushing the power button for 3 seconds. Though after I push the "I" button, nothing works, not changing power setting or change view (odo, trip time, avg speed), and can't turn the display off. It just stays where it was when I pushed the "I" button. The light works.

I can't go into setup mode because that requires the "I" button. I can't figure a way out of this scenario. Can anybody give suggestions other than going to open source software?

Thanks for taking the time to read this. I sincerely hope someone can help, or at least direct me to where I can get help. (I've seen sw by marcoq but can't yet find the download site)

Donn.

 

[skestans]

My tsdz2 has behaved strangely. Sometimes gives a very good assist and sometimes very badly.

I started adjusting the torque sensor. I measured its value first and it was 157. The minimum value I can adjust it to is 64 (should get to values of 25-30). Is the sensor simply broken.

I have that too sometimes when the motor and the display don’t initialize properly. I can tell because I display both the motor W and the human W. Failure mode 1: I barely touch the pedals and it shows 1500 or 2000W human power while having jerky motor assist. Failure mode 2: human power is accurate but motor power stays at 0W. When that happens I go into the settings and then exit. This reinitializes the motor without completely powering off and on again.
I believe this happens because the power wires interfere with the data wires. Not much I can do there, it happens every once in a while but it’s easy to spot with the human and motor power displayed. You know something is wrong right away.

 

[casainho]

My tsdz2 has behaved strangely. Sometimes gives a very good assist and sometimes very badly.

I started adjusting the torque sensor. I measured its value first and it was 157. The minimum value I can adjust it to is 64 (should get to values of 25-30). Is the sensor simply broken.

I have that too sometimes when the motor and the display don’t initialize properly. I can tell because I display both the motor W and the human W. Failure mode 1: I barely touch the pedals and it shows 1500 or 2000W human power while having jerky motor assist. Failure mode 2: human power is accurate but motor power stays at 0W. When that happens I go into the settings and then exit. This reinitializes the motor without completely powering off and on again.
I believe this happens because the power wires interfere with the data wires. Not much I can do there, it happens every once in a while but it’s easy to spot with the human and motor power displayed. You know something is wrong right away.

That happens to you because you did not update your firmware to most recent version.

 

[vshitikov]

Hope you don't mind - I'm looking for help in the Paris area:

I installed a TSDZ2 motor with the SW102 display, both with 0.19 version open-source firmware, on a friend's bike when I was in Paris, France. Now they're having problems, getting a "No Motor" error on startup (but full voltage from the battery), and I'm in Australia and it's hard for me to troubleshoot with them. Is there anyone in the Paris area that might be willing to have a look and/or fix it (happy to pay a fee of course), or anyone know any e-bike mechanics that are familiar with the open-source TSDZ2? Thank you so much in advance

Hi, I'm in Paris suburb Antony 92160 and can have a look but only if they bring the bike to me as I'm not going to Paris during these times.

 

[workwear_enthusiast]

Hi vshitikov,

Thanks so much, that would be great. I'm sure my friend would be happy to bring the bike to you at some point, likely not now, but in a few weeks time. So I think it's likely that my soldering job on the wires from the SW102 might have a fault somewhere - I replaced the Bafang plug with the TSDZ plug that I cut off the VLCD display that came with the motor. I had the wiring correct - the motor worked fine for a few weeks, but after I left my friend told me it stopped working. Anyhow, I'll message you with further details. Thanks!

Hi, I'm in Paris suburb Antony 92160 and can have a look but only if they bring the bike to me as I'm not going to Paris during these times.

 

[workwear_enthusiast]

If it was working before but not now, the problem is probably communication failing from motor controller to the display. I would bet on a bad contact on connectors or some wire that broke. Or for some reason the motor controller is not working anymore, but probably less unlikly.

Thanks for the reply casinho! Yes, that's exactly what I think it is too, likely my bad soldering job on the SW102 wires. Unfortunately though my friend is not good with mechanics or electronics, so I can't get them to troubleshoot it.

 

[dameri]

My tsdz2 has behaved strangely. Sometimes gives a very good assist and sometimes very badly.

I started adjusting the torque sensor. I measured its value first and it was 157. The minimum value I can adjust it to is 64 (should get to values of 25-30). Is the sensor simply broken.

I have that too sometimes when the motor and the display don’t initialize properly. I can tell because I display both the motor W and the human W. Failure mode 1: I barely touch the pedals and it shows 1500 or 2000W human power while having jerky motor assist. Failure mode 2: human power is accurate but motor power stays at 0W. When that happens I go into the settings and then exit. This reinitializes the motor without completely powering off and on again.
I believe this happens because the power wires interfere with the data wires. Not much I can do there, it happens every once in a while but it’s easy to spot with the human and motor power displayed. You know something is wrong right away.

That happens to you because you did not update your firmware to most recent version.

The tsdz2 is disassembled and the torque sensor is on my table. I have installed to the tsdz2 and display the latest 5-alpha version.
I've tried on two displays (850C and 860C) and I think still the torque sensor
is not working properly.

 

[skestans]

That happens to you because you did not update your firmware to most recent version.

Yes, on purpose.

I depend on the bike daily and can’t afford it getting destroyed. I have read several reports of controllers blowing up with later versions. There is a rather ominous warning on the download page for later versions (last I checked) which really put me off from upgrading. I don’t have a spare controller board on hand and can’t wait two months to receive one from China.

So I stick to the version I have now that works fine save for when it fails to initialize once in a while for lack of better options. I have asked in this thread as well if the controller destroying bug had been fixed in later versions but never got a definite “yes” so I didn’t want to take the chance. And the v1.0.0 is labeled alpha.

People who want stability and reliability don’t usually run Alpha code. I can’t read C so I can’t judge the code by myself. Closest proxy are user reports of damage/problems and labels like “alpha”.

I ,like everyone else, appreciate all the work you put into this project, I’m just not very adventurous with experimental/alpha software

 

[casainho]

That happens to you because you did not update your firmware to most recent version.

Yes, on purpose.

I depend on the bike daily and can’t afford it getting destroyed. I have read several reports of controllers blowing up with later versions. There is a rather ominous warning on the download page for later versions (last I checked) which really put me off from upgrading. I don’t have a spare controller board on hand and can’t wait two months to receive one from China.

So I stick to the version I have now that works fine save for when it fails to initialize once in a while for lack of better options. I have asked in this thread as well if the controller destroying bug had been fixed in later versions but never got a definite “yes” so I didn’t want to take the chance. And the v1.0.0 is labeled alpha.

People who want stability and reliability don’t usually run Alpha code. I can’t read C so I can’t judge the code by myself. Closest proxy are user reports of damage/problems and labels like “alpha”.

I ,like everyone else, appreciate all the work you put into this project, I’m just not very adventurous with experimental/alpha software

I will release the 1.0.0 stable version this week.

 

[lupe]

Hi All - I have just installed a TSDZ2 onto my wife's gazelle chamonix c7 - what a mission!! Anyway I won't get into details but I just had a couple of questions if anyone can help.

1. I want to put the main cable through the frame with the brake and gear cables. To do this I need to cut off the connecter, then I guess reconnect it - can I do this and is it pretty simple? I have never spliced a wire together before. I'm guessing there will be 8 seperate wires in the cable as it is an 8 pin connector.

2. I have a BBSHD on my bike and have bought some mobilgrease 28 to use to grease it. Can I use this same grease on the TSDZ2?

Thanks

 

[skestans]

Hi All - I have just installed a TSDZ2 onto my wife's gazelle chamonix c7 - what a mission!! Anyway I won't get into details but I just had a couple of questions if anyone can help.

1. I want to put the main cable through the frame with the brake and gear cables. To do this I need to cut off the connecter, then I guess reconnect it - can I do this and is it pretty simple? I have never spliced a wire together before. I'm guessing there will be 8 seperate wires in the cable as it is an 8 pin connector.

2. I have a BBSHD on my bike and have bought some mobilgrease 28 to use to grease it. Can I use this same grease on the TSDZ2?

Thanks

For 1. You can certainly do it. What I would advise though is to get a second cable from aliexpress (the one you’re about to cut) so they you have a spare on hand if you mess up the first one. Make sure the cable will fit because it’s much thicker than a brake/gear cable housing. Then I’d make the cut 2cm or more from one of the connectors, slide the cable in the frame, and solder back color to color with heat shrink tube around every cable and over the whole bunch. I’d use marine heat shrink tube because they have glue that makes the joint water proof. And look videos up how to properly solder cables together.

 

[lupe]

Hi All - I have just installed a TSDZ2 onto my wife's gazelle chamonix c7 - what a mission!! Anyway I won't get into details but I just had a couple of questions if anyone can help.

1. I want to put the main cable through the frame with the brake and gear cables. To do this I need to cut off the connecter, then I guess reconnect it - can I do this and is it pretty simple? I have never spliced a wire together before. I'm guessing there will be 8 seperate wires in the cable as it is an 8 pin connector.

2. I have a BBSHD on my bike and have bought some mobilgrease 28 to use to grease it. Can I use this same grease on the TSDZ2?

Thanks

For 1. You can certainly do it. What I would advise though is to get a second cable from aliexpress (the one you’re about to cut) so they you have a spare on hand if you mess up the first one. Make sure the cable will fit because it’s much thicker than a brake/gear cable housing. Then I’d make the cut 2cm or more from one of the connectors, slide the cable in the frame, and solder back color to color with heat shrink tube around every cable and over the whole bunch. I’d use marine heat shrink tube because they have glue that makes the joint water proof. And look videos up how to properly solder cables together.

Thank you - I'll give it a go. And good idea about ordering another cable.

 

[Retrorockit]

To: Darkerside. If the wobble in the chainring turns out to be in the sprag clutch I wouldn't worry about it becasue when the sprag clutch locks under load it will center iself. If it's in the fit of the bearing bore there are Loctite type fluids for loose fit bearings that can be used for that. I'm in the US so other brands may apply depending on where you are.

 

[Darkerside]

Thanks retrorocket - that explains why I haven't been able to feel it whilst pedalling...

 

[CatfishMan]

So what is a safe assist factor for the TSDZ2 OSF? I currently have my highest level (9) set to 2.5 but I'm afraid to use it given the defaults were all much lower.

 

[sysrq]

To: Darkerside. If the wobble in the chainring turns out to be in the sprag clutch I wouldn't worry about it becasue when the sprag clutch locks under load it will center iself. If it's in the fit of the bearing bore there are Loctite type fluids for loose fit bearings that can be used for that. I'm in the US so other brands may apply depending on where you are.

Even Shimano Steps have some play, which is said to be functional (up to 2mm). As far as I know it's mostly only lateral.