New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

[dameri]

Nitrile O-Rings from Aliexpress do the trick.
The dimensions are: OD: 58mm ID: 55mm and thickness: 1.5mm
The quantity is 50. Price around 5 US $.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001729116866.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.399f1802orN9XP

Thank you for shearing.

Do you have some special (green) gasket outside of the bolt ring?

 

[Piper J3]

I converted my 2013 Trek 8.5 DS to e-bike last year with a Bafang mid-mount motor. Two months ago, I sold the Bafang and installed a TSDZ2 with 860C and OSF. Beautiful…. Recently, the motor developed a gear whine noise and I replaced the blue gear and greased. Gear whine still very present, so I bought a TSDZ2B on AliExpress and installed just the motor yesterday. I had to swap out the motor controls because of the open source firmware – no problem. Just did a test ride and dead quiet. The new “B” version has improved internal gears, bearings, and sprag clutch. This is too cool. Back in the saddle again...
-

 

[dameri]

Nitrile O-Rings from Aliexpress do the trick.
The dimensions are: OD: 58mm ID: 55mm and thickness: 1.5mm
The quantity is 50. Price around 5 US $.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001729116866.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.399f1802orN9XP

Thank you for shearing.

Do you have some special (green) gasket outside of the bolt ring?

I replaced the gasket with a green Wristband cut to the correct height. It works.

Very cool. Thanks.

 

[ornias]

I converted my 2013 Trek 8.5 DS to e-bike last year with a Bafang mid-mount motor. Two months ago, I sold the Bafang and installed a TSDZ2 with 860C and OSF. Beautiful…. Recently, the motor developed a gear whine noise and I replaced the blue gear and greased. Gear whine still very present, so I bought a TSDZ2B on AliExpress and installed just the motor yesterday. I had to swap out the motor controls because of the open source firmware – no problem. Just did a test ride and dead quiet. The new “B” version has improved internal gears, bearings, and sprag clutch. This is too cool. Back in the saddle again...
-

First off:
TongSheng is known for shipping a clutch that is already barely capable of covering the load (110nm rated) if made by a good manufacturer, but ship it chinesium grade.

I've seen no evidence they started to use higher quality bearings in the TSDZ2B, nor have I seen evidence of better internal gears.

However, I do know that they moved from freely available clutches (and thus replaceable by a quality variant) to a self-designed clutch.

The company that has 0.2mm(!) tolerance on a bearing axle and isn't able to pick the right clutch, is now starting to design their own clutches... That's not a good sign.

High quality clutches are EXPENSIVE. A good quality clutch is about 1/3-1/5th of the complete price of the TSDZ2. No way they ship one of good quality now, it's simply not possible at their pricepoint.

I also call bullshit on the better internals, considering everything that is actually breaking due to design issues (circlips, tolerances etc) is still the same.

 

[v85]

I want to ask what is optimal motor for 48V battery?

There are 15A (720W) controllers (TSDZ2B) that PSWPower offers and 18A (864W) controllers but on old TSDZ2 version:

https://recycles-ebike.com/tongsheng-tsdz2/95-tongsheng-motor-conversion-ebike-kittorque-sensor-48v-500w-42t-chainwheelwith-thumb-throttlecutoff-brake.html#/54-power-36v_300w/59-lights-front_light/37-bottom_bracket_width-68_73mm/62-tax_issue-paid_by_seller/74-throttlebrake-color_displaythrottle1t2_cable_no_brake

Nevermind, probably i can switch to 18A after some time on TSDZ2B: Bare Controller with Connectors

 

[Piper J3]

I’m thinking about adding motor temperature sensor LM35 to my new TSDZ2B running OSF with 8-pin cable.

Question – If I keep motor output below 500W, is that sufficient, or should I monitor temperature to prevent motor damage? See motor output power graphed on 860C below….
-

 

[pxl666]

honestly? I was using my bike for over a year shredding hard mtb as mountains near me are not extremely high but trails are steep and sometimes quite long. apart from doing some climbing in Croatia In very high temperatures in terms of weather.
and nothing burned and no blue gear was melted and I went over osf only to calibrate my torq sensor . temp sensor is a nice bonus but you can live without it .

 

[ornias]

I want to ask what is optimal motor for 48V battery?

There are 15A (720W) controllers (TSDZ2B) that PSWPower offers and 18A (864W) controllers but on old TSDZ2 version:

https://recycles-ebike.com/tongsheng-tsdz2/95-tongsheng-motor-conversion-ebike-kittorque-sensor-48v-500w-42t-chainwheelwith-thumb-throttlecutoff-brake.html#/54-power-36v_300w/59-lights-front_light/37-bottom_bracket_width-68_73mm/62-tax_issue-paid_by_seller/74-throttlebrake-color_displaythrottle1t2_cable_no_brake

Nevermind, probably i can switch to 18A after some time on TSDZ2B: Bare Controller with Connectors

Okey, lets clear this up:
Just because it's labeled as something, doesn't make it true. That goes for "Amp" and "Watt" ratings.
The stock board is actually closer to a 30A board with motor cooling being the limiting factor.

You do NOT need to buy another controler.
There is no "TSDZ2B controller" as far as we're aware. Just because some sellers act like something is special, doesn't make it true.

 

[ornias]

I’m thinking about adding motor temperature sensor LM35 to my new TSDZ2B running OSF with 8-pin cable.

Question – If I keep motor output below 500W, is that sufficient, or should I monitor temperature to prevent motor damage? See motor output power graphed on 860C below….
-

The motor is only actually rated to do 250W continues, everything more, theoretically, can cause overheating.
500w continued is 100% sure to overheat if you have not deployed cooling mods already, there is a graph about 500w specifically in the tsdz2 cooling thread.

 

[ornias]

honestly? I was using my bike for over a year shredding hard mtb as mountains near me are not extremely high but trails are steep and sometimes quite long. apart from doing some climbing in Croatia In very high temperatures in terms of weather.
and nothing burned and no blue gear was melted and I went over osf only to calibrate my torq sensor . temp sensor is a nice bonus but you can live without it .

Blue gear does not melt due to heat, it shreds due to torque loads.
In therms of "burned out" motors, unless you've completely dismantled the electromotor unit... there is no way to be so sure you have not demagnitised the motor. Motor "burnout" is not actually related to "burning" it means the magnets are slowly or quickly loosing strength.

 

[pxl666]

honestly? I was using my bike for over a year shredding hard mtb as mountains near me are not extremely high but trails are steep and sometimes quite long. apart from doing some climbing in Croatia In very high temperatures in terms of weather.
and nothing burned and no blue gear was melted and I went over osf only to calibrate my torq sensor . temp sensor is a nice bonus but you can live without it .

Blue gear does not melt due to heat, it shreds due to torque loads.
In therms of "burned out" motors, unless you've completely dismantled the electromotor unit... there is no way to be so sure you have not demagnitised the motor. Motor "burnout" is not actually related to "burning" it means the magnets are slowly or quickly loosing strength.

yepp . I am aware of this . actually I didn't have any problems with the motor except my torque sensor needed hardware calibration. motor didn't get weaker nor was pulling more current due to demagnetization

 

[ornias]

honestly? I was using my bike for over a year shredding hard mtb as mountains near me are not extremely high but trails are steep and sometimes quite long. apart from doing some climbing in Croatia In very high temperatures in terms of weather.
and nothing burned and no blue gear was melted and I went over osf only to calibrate my torq sensor . temp sensor is a nice bonus but you can live without it .

Blue gear does not melt due to heat, it shreds due to torque loads.
In therms of "burned out" motors, unless you've completely dismantled the electromotor unit... there is no way to be so sure you have not demagnitised the motor. Motor "burnout" is not actually related to "burning" it means the magnets are slowly or quickly loosing strength.

yepp . I am aware of this . actually I didn't have any problems with the motor except my torque sensor needed hardware calibration. motor didn't get weaker nor was pulling more current due to demagnetization

you did do the cooling mods right?
That should prevent like 90% of issues...

 

[pxl666]

I did thermopads after installing motor but have no data to compare if they really worked and yet seems logical that they transport heat better than air ...original fw is delivering less power I believe so motor heats up slower. anyway , I think that the key is to have wide range of gears that means 34 chainring and 50t cassette and have in mind that more motor power means more heat . so rider should use as much of own power and the higher the gear the better . simple rules. if you're tired the motor is probably hot so give yourself a brake and let it cool ...

 

[endlessolli]

I did thermopads after installing motor but have no data to compare if they really worked and yet seems logical that they transport heat better than air ...original fw is delivering less power I believe so motor heats up slower. anyway , I think that the key is to have wide range of gears that means 34 chainring and 50t cassette and have in mind that more motor power means more heat . so rider should use as much of own power and the higher the gear the better . simple rules. if you're tired the motor is probably hot so give yourself a brake and let it cool ...

I can confirm that even the simple one-sided thermal pad addition (pads only on motorside where cable enter motor) reduce heat significantly: On my test hill (~20 minutes 400 hm) the motor measured in the end @ >65degC before the mod; after the mod it did not even get to 50degC. Same hill, same conditions. I use osfm, 36v motor; max Powersetting @500W (But I use 500W rarely and short; normally between 100 to 300W)
So it works amazingly well - and I don’t even use pads w/ very high thermal conductivity - I use the ‚blue‘ 10x10cm ones found on ebay which I cut to size. (Sorry, do not have specs handy)

 

[ornias]

I did thermopads after installing motor but have no data to compare if they really worked and yet seems logical that they transport heat better than air

TLDR: Your house is insulated by non-moving air.
Yes, air is a terrible conductor for heat.

original fw is delivering less power I believe so motor heats up slower.

Yes, its less powerfull generally speaking

anyway , I think that the key is to have wide range of gears that means 34 chainring and 50t cassette and have in mind that more motor power means more heat .

This should be shouted off the roof tops.

The reason most actual ebike manufacturers don't ship insane (42t) chainrings, is the fact it's nonsensical at best for ebike use. To be clear: Ebike, not speedpedelec.
42T makes sense for a speedpedelec (45km/h) bike, but almost non for a normal ebike

Even worse: It increases the chance of "whoopsie" motor burnouts when going in a too high gear from stand-still expodentially.

My advise for DIY rebikes would be, to follow how emtb companies spec their bikes. Those bikes are designed to be abused and have the right safety margins in place:
- preferably a 30, 32 or 34T chainring
- 38T chainring MAX
- Shift like a normal bike (you don't start on a hill on the heaviest gear on a normal bike either!)

 

[NisseMan]

I use 52T chain ring without any issues. It make better use of my cassette, never need to use the 11/12t cogs

 

[endlessolli]

…
42T makes sense for a speedpedelec (45km/h) bike, but almost non for a normal ebike

I am not sure what cadence you are riding…. but even with a tiny 12 teeth sprocket you would need a cadence of 100 to reach 45 km/h with a 42T. (w/ 28‘‘ wheels), if I am not mistaken. Also at this cadence you would get almost zero support from the motor when using std firmware (ie w/o field weakening)
-> For daily commuting in a hilly area a 42T chainring with 12T to 32T in the back give me pleasant riding with 65 to 85 cadence in the legal speed range.

 

[endlessolli]

Double post…

 

[pxl666]

…
42T makes sense for a speedpedelec (45km/h) bike, but almost non for a normal ebike

I am not sure what cadence you are riding…. but even with a tiny 12 teeth sprocket you would need a cadence of 100 to reach 45 km/h with a 42T. (w/ 28‘‘ wheels), if I am not mistaken. Also at this cadence you would get almost zero support from the motor when using std firmware (ie w/o field weakening)
-> For daily commuting in a hilly area a 42T chainring with 12T to 32T in the back give me pleasant riding with 65 to 85 cadence in the legal speed range.

26 rim 36 chainring 11 smallest cog - 40 kmh easy on flat and bike is great for mtb climbing

 

[endlessolli]

26 rim 36 chainring 11 smallest cog - 40 kmh easy on flat and bike is great for mtb climbing

That should equal a cadence of 92 (down from 98 for a 28 rim).
I guess it really boils down to your main use case (steep mtb slopes vs. street commuting) and in which cadence range you are comfortable - and if you use osfm enabling field weakening to still get support @ high cadence numbers.

 

[ornias]

…
42T makes sense for a speedpedelec (45km/h) bike, but almost non for a normal ebike

I am not sure what cadence you are riding…. but even with a tiny 12 teeth sprocket you would need a cadence of 100 to reach 45 km/h with a 42T. (w/ 28‘‘ wheels), if I am not mistaken. Also at this cadence you would get almost zero support from the motor when using std firmware (ie w/o field weakening)
-> For daily commuting in a hilly area a 42T chainring with 12T to 32T in the back give me pleasant riding with 65 to 85 cadence in the legal speed range.

As I was saying, using said chainring only makes sense at non-bike speeds. I was NOT saying that 42T is enough for 45km/h, I was refering to "big chainrings" like the 42T.

42T on 12T, is a LOT of torque, this does actually create concern for motor burnout when used with bigger rims.

 

[ornias]

26 rim 36 chainring 11 smallest cog - 40 kmh easy on flat and bike is great for mtb climbing

That should equal a cadence of 92 (down from 98 for a 28 rim).
I guess it really boils down to your main use case (steep mtb slopes vs. street commuting) and in which cadence range you are comfortable - and if you use osfm enabling field weakening to still get support @ high cadence numbers.

To get back to the topic I was refering to:
The core subject here was motor capacility and burnout.

42T, creates cause for concern of motor burnout.
That's assuming people drive like idiots and don't shift enough...

Yes yes, we all know we all know better. But my point is about the general design...
42T puts a lot of responsibility on the rider and we all know "the average joe" is not thát responsible

 

[Inertiatic]

Hi all

I have a non-throttle TSDZ2 with a failed torque sensor (2nd time in 2500 miles), and i'm not really willing to spend time and money to fix something which will inevitably fail again.

So...

Is it possible to fit a throttle to a 6-pin TSDZ2 (VLCD5)? As i understand it there are no wired connections on the 6-pin displays but also led to believe that the contacts DO exist on the board, so the wiring could be added?

If so, with updated firmware Cruise Control could be added as well?

Not sure i'f i'm being a bit optimistic?

Cheers

 

[Elinx]

....

.... As i understand it there are no wired connections on the 6-pin displays but also led to believe that the contacts DO exist on the board, so the wiring could be added?

...updated firmware Cruise Control could be added as well?........

Yes and yes, OSF has different modes like upscaled walkassist and cruise control, but this isn't the same as the use of a throttle.

 

[pxl666]

Hi all

I have a non-throttle TSDZ2 with a failed torque sensor (2nd time in 2500 miles), and i'm not really willing to spend time and money to fix something which will inevitably fail again.

So...

Is it possible to fit a throttle to a 6-pin TSDZ2 (VLCD5)? As i understand it there are no wired connections on the 6-pin displays but also led to believe that the contacts DO exist on the board, so the wiring could be added?

If so, with updated firmware Cruise Control could be added as well?

Not sure i'f i'm being a bit optimistic?

Cheers

you can use cadence sensor only i think. what broke in torq sensor ?