manneokoko
1 W
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- Jul 28, 2012
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A problem with the smaller display might be that we don't know how to make hidden settings on it, since it doesn't have the same buttons as the bigger one. It looks pretty though.
New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"
- Thread starter larsottar
- Start date
manneokoko
1 W
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- Jul 28, 2012
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Im considering building an ebike with this motor 350W. I have a battery already that is 36V 10AH, and it is rated for 10A continuous output. Do you think it will be enough for the 350W version?
The battery was used before on a bike with 500W hub motor, and it worked. I dont know if it has been damaged from it, not that I have noticed at least.
The battery was used before on a bike with 500W hub motor, and it worked. I dont know if it has been damaged from it, not that I have noticed at least.
Hi,
Finally back after a long time away. Great to see this thread has really picked up and lots of people are trying this motor!
Second chainring:
The reverse/ wrong mounting of second (shimano 50 tooth) chainring was only to conclude the testing as the proper mounting gave a huge gap to original chainring delivered with motor. It worked ok when shifting in a certain way. For a more robust setup I think we need two standard chainrings and a deraileur which can handle 55+ mm or so chainline distance. Chainline distance from center of seat tube to original chainring is about 50.5 mm, according to drawings. I think for anyone looking for higher speeds with this motor you need to consider chainring as well as other factors mentioned above. Stock chainring is 42 teeth, makes my bike with a 10 speed shimano rear deraileur require silly cadence at speeds over 30 km/h.
Noise:
I picked my motor apart again and this time pulled of the intermediate shaft (I call it) which is seated in the blue pin bearing. You can jank it out with a flat screw driver. When I put only this shaft back into the housing and turn the crank the noise is still there. So it means my noise comes from this small gear interacting with the crank gear. The machining of this shaft seems to be a bit off. The shaft actually spins around relative to the inner bearing part. Bearing inner diameter is 12 mm, which is a standard. Shaft however is machined down to 11.91 mm (see picture below).
I think this loose fit might cause unecessary friciton as shaft is spinning in grease inside bearing. Anyhow pswpower have said they will send me a new shaft. Looking forward to trying that one. All bearings I have found to be standard, so that's a relieve for future maintenance. Regardless I am not very conserned by this anymore, don't think it will do much else than just being noisy.
Updated impression:
I have about 350 km on mine now. Even though it does produce this noise I am very happy with it. Would not go back to Bafang at all. The big reason for me is the torque sensor, just makes ebiking so much more like riding a bike again. And the more robust assembly and mounting makes it my first recommendation for anyone who wants to convert their bike. Also like that the buttons are more snappy than on the C961 of the Bafang anyway (maybe the newer ones are better?).
Cheers
Lars
Finally back after a long time away. Great to see this thread has really picked up and lots of people are trying this motor!
Second chainring:
The reverse/ wrong mounting of second (shimano 50 tooth) chainring was only to conclude the testing as the proper mounting gave a huge gap to original chainring delivered with motor. It worked ok when shifting in a certain way. For a more robust setup I think we need two standard chainrings and a deraileur which can handle 55+ mm or so chainline distance. Chainline distance from center of seat tube to original chainring is about 50.5 mm, according to drawings. I think for anyone looking for higher speeds with this motor you need to consider chainring as well as other factors mentioned above. Stock chainring is 42 teeth, makes my bike with a 10 speed shimano rear deraileur require silly cadence at speeds over 30 km/h.
Noise:
I picked my motor apart again and this time pulled of the intermediate shaft (I call it) which is seated in the blue pin bearing. You can jank it out with a flat screw driver. When I put only this shaft back into the housing and turn the crank the noise is still there. So it means my noise comes from this small gear interacting with the crank gear. The machining of this shaft seems to be a bit off. The shaft actually spins around relative to the inner bearing part. Bearing inner diameter is 12 mm, which is a standard. Shaft however is machined down to 11.91 mm (see picture below).
I think this loose fit might cause unecessary friciton as shaft is spinning in grease inside bearing. Anyhow pswpower have said they will send me a new shaft. Looking forward to trying that one. All bearings I have found to be standard, so that's a relieve for future maintenance. Regardless I am not very conserned by this anymore, don't think it will do much else than just being noisy.
Updated impression:
I have about 350 km on mine now. Even though it does produce this noise I am very happy with it. Would not go back to Bafang at all. The big reason for me is the torque sensor, just makes ebiking so much more like riding a bike again. And the more robust assembly and mounting makes it my first recommendation for anyone who wants to convert their bike. Also like that the buttons are more snappy than on the C961 of the Bafang anyway (maybe the newer ones are better?).
Cheers
Lars
manneokoko said:
Yes I have the XH18, I chose it because I liked the small size. I never had the other one so I can't make a good comparison. The rotating ring works fine to select the assistance level. I would have liked it a bit narrower though, it takes quite some space on my handlebar.
When you connect the battery initially the controller stays off. When you press the on/off button it starts and mine always starts in assistance level 1 (out of 0...4). After that, pressing the on/off button again toggles an indicator in the XH18 screen that looks like the headlamp indicator of a car. I guess one could connect bike lights to be fed from the battery. Although I'm not planning to do so and don't know where those lights would plug in.
wetdog2
10 µW
So now that people have been using the motor for a few months, what is the verdict?
Is this motor robust? Would your recommend it as a first ebike kit? Does this motor require power cutoff brakes and gear changing sensors?
I want to turn my old bike into a reliable commuter - no off-roading, no need for speed. I'm mildly handy, but have no previous experience in this e-realm, nor am I interested in tweaking and tuning the bike on my free weekends. On paper, everything looks good and there seem to be some ardent fans, but it's not a very popular motor. Why is that?
Thanks.
Is this motor robust? Would your recommend it as a first ebike kit? Does this motor require power cutoff brakes and gear changing sensors?
I want to turn my old bike into a reliable commuter - no off-roading, no need for speed. I'm mildly handy, but have no previous experience in this e-realm, nor am I interested in tweaking and tuning the bike on my free weekends. On paper, everything looks good and there seem to be some ardent fans, but it's not a very popular motor. Why is that?
Thanks.
manneokoko
1 W
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2012
- Messages
- 63
I have heard that with the bafang bbs engines, that they dont have enough grease in them from factory and that you should open them and put in extra grease before using them to improve the lifespan and durability.
Is it the same with the TSD2Z2 engine? If so, what type of grease and where to put it?
Thanks
Is it the same with the TSD2Z2 engine? If so, what type of grease and where to put it?
Thanks
So I just mounted my tsdz2 motor to my 2009 Bullitt cargo bike with Alfine 11 gearing. A slight bit of dremeling of the motor casings was involved in getting it to sit properly in the BB.
So far I'm happy with the assist level, but I'm still sweating uphill. Perhaps that's an old habit from when my bike was non-electric. Maybe I just need to slow down. I really like how the torque sensor works compared the another bike I built with a Bafang BBS02.
Anyway, what I'm wondering about is the same as so many of the others here. How do I get rid of (or get used to) the noise? It sounds like an electric winch, particularily at low speeds and high load with maximum assist.
On the Bullitt perhaps part of the problem is that the cargo box resonates the sound. I might try to put some rubber bits between the boards and the frame. But still, it seems to me that this noise must be limiting performance somehow?
So far I'm happy with the assist level, but I'm still sweating uphill. Perhaps that's an old habit from when my bike was non-electric. Maybe I just need to slow down. I really like how the torque sensor works compared the another bike I built with a Bafang BBS02.
Anyway, what I'm wondering about is the same as so many of the others here. How do I get rid of (or get used to) the noise? It sounds like an electric winch, particularily at low speeds and high load with maximum assist.
On the Bullitt perhaps part of the problem is that the cargo box resonates the sound. I might try to put some rubber bits between the boards and the frame. But still, it seems to me that this noise must be limiting performance somehow?
wetdog2
10 µW
manneokoko said:
I've read of people using Mobilgrease28 http://www.exxonmobil.com/english-LT/Aviation/pds/GLXXMobilgrease-28.
Here's a link for lubing a BBS02: https://electricbike-blog.com/2015/12/23/mobilgrease-28-bbshdbbs02-because-a-good-mid-drive-is-better-seen-and-not-heard/
Still trying to figure out why my motor is so noisy and then I found this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBbKKdsz0xs
Compare it to my motor:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzJSUHp0IkP3ZjNvVGpGamlFZFk/view?usp=sharing
..and the first one is practically silent.
The sounds you hear on my clip are in this order: motor noise, shifting clicks, coasting (resonating cargo bay, I guess), motor noise again and finally the disc brakes engaging.
Any opinions?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBbKKdsz0xs
Compare it to my motor:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzJSUHp0IkP3ZjNvVGpGamlFZFk/view?usp=sharing
..and the first one is practically silent.
The sounds you hear on my clip are in this order: motor noise, shifting clicks, coasting (resonating cargo bay, I guess), motor noise again and finally the disc brakes engaging.
Any opinions?
manneokoko
1 W
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2012
- Messages
- 63
I am about to install this motor in my bike. I need to change the rear gear casette and Im wondering how many teeth is best.
The front chainring is 42t, would it be good to have the smallest gear in the back to 11t? I want to pedal at comfortable cadence (not pedaling to fast) in about 35kph. The wheel size is 28".
So would 42t front, 11t back be a good combo for about 35kph speed?
Thanks
The front chainring is 42t, would it be good to have the smallest gear in the back to 11t? I want to pedal at comfortable cadence (not pedaling to fast) in about 35kph. The wheel size is 28".
So would 42t front, 11t back be a good combo for about 35kph speed?
Thanks
Chalo
100 TW
manneokoko said:
It's a good ratio for that kind of speed, but running frequently in the 11t gear will rapidly wear out the chain, which will in turn wear out the sprockets.
It's better to use the biggest ring you can accommodate, with only as small of a rear sprocket as you must. 52/13 is much better, and 60/15 is much better yet. These both have exactly the same ratio as 44/11, which is a slightly higher ratio than you have with your current setup.
manneokoko
1 W
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- Jul 28, 2012
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- 63
Thanks for the reply Chalo. Im off to find a 52t chainring 
mscoot said:
Tonight I pulled my TSDZ2 apart and took some pictures. Mine failed a month ago but I didn't have time to get to it until now. I can't answer your question about the blue gear but still hope a few pictures help.
First I took the chain ring off. You don't have to remove this to get to the motor but I didn't know that yet. Five bolts at the center of the chain ring holder, and the ring comes off as in this picture. A seal comes off too, later I popped that back into the center of the ring.
Attachments
Remove five more screws and two plastic covers come off. Two short screws for the small cover first, then three longer screws for the larger cover. Now you can see metal gears, the second of two gear reductions in the TSDZ2. The larger cover has two seals that keep this gearing clean.
Things here looked fine in my TSDZ2 so I closed this side up again and went to the other side next. When I closed up I made sure the two seals on the larger cover were correctly mounted. I first put the shaped outer seal neatly on the metal frame and then put the cover over. Last I put the second seal, an O-ring of approx. 80mm diameter, back in the cover.
By the way, I got the impression that this big O-ring creates a significant part of the friction that I feel when I ride without assist. Does anyone have an idea about how to reduce this friction while ensuring that no dirt can come into those gears?
Things here looked fine in my TSDZ2 so I closed this side up again and went to the other side next. When I closed up I made sure the two seals on the larger cover were correctly mounted. I first put the shaped outer seal neatly on the metal frame and then put the cover over. Last I put the second seal, an O-ring of approx. 80mm diameter, back in the cover.
By the way, I got the impression that this big O-ring creates a significant part of the friction that I feel when I ride without assist. Does anyone have an idea about how to reduce this friction while ensuring that no dirt can come into those gears?
That gets you to the motor on the left and controller on the right.
In this picture I already started removing the motor wires because I wanted to get the motor out. There are the three motor wires and a cable to a small connector with the motor sensors. The wires and cables are held under a metal strip with two small parker screws which I removed too.
In this picture I already started removing the motor wires because I wanted to get the motor out. There are the three motor wires and a cable to a small connector with the motor sensors. The wires and cables are held under a metal strip with two small parker screws which I removed too.
Attachments
In my case the motor shaft proved to be broken. So I could lift the shaft with the metal gear straight out of the motor. That was the rattling sound when I tried assist, the two halves of the shaft just rattled against each other at the fracture.
Anyway, because I could easily lift out half of the motor shaft with the little gear on top, once that shaft was gone it was relatively easy to pull out the shaft with the blue gear too. I wedged carefully with a plastic tool between the blue gear and the motor face and it lifted out. Nothing holds that secondary shaft apart from the pretty loose bearing fit.
Now I can't answer your question on how to remove the blue gear, because I haven't been able to get the little gear off of the motor shaft. So if your motor shaft is not broken, that bearing prevents the blue gear from moving up. As far as I can see this tiny bearing is only held by a tight bearing fit, but it's tight enough that I haven't dared to put enough force on that bearing to take it off.
Also, the bearing on the bottom of the blue gear seem quite a tight fit, I haven't gotten this one off either. I hope someone else can pitch in on how to get those bearings off.
So I'm done for tonight. I found what's wrong with my motor and hope I can get it fixed under warranty. Have fun with your TSDZ2.
Anyway, because I could easily lift out half of the motor shaft with the little gear on top, once that shaft was gone it was relatively easy to pull out the shaft with the blue gear too. I wedged carefully with a plastic tool between the blue gear and the motor face and it lifted out. Nothing holds that secondary shaft apart from the pretty loose bearing fit.
Now I can't answer your question on how to remove the blue gear, because I haven't been able to get the little gear off of the motor shaft. So if your motor shaft is not broken, that bearing prevents the blue gear from moving up. As far as I can see this tiny bearing is only held by a tight bearing fit, but it's tight enough that I haven't dared to put enough force on that bearing to take it off.
Also, the bearing on the bottom of the blue gear seem quite a tight fit, I haven't gotten this one off either. I hope someone else can pitch in on how to get those bearings off.
So I'm done for tonight. I found what's wrong with my motor and hope I can get it fixed under warranty. Have fun with your TSDZ2.
Attachments
MPM said:
Thanks for the write up! I've got some shims from my LBS to put in between the gears to tighten up everything and get rid of the noise. I tried one of the LBS' bikes with a nearly silent (but not bafang-silent, though) Tsdz2 motor, so hopefully my motor will quiet down and feel alot tighter when I'm done.
