New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

[RTIII]

Yep !
This is the TSDZ2 thread of knowledge now. Thanks!

RT, No such thing as a 7-8-9 spd chain. You either have an old 5-6-7-8 chain width or the more narrow 9 spd chain, or the more narrow 10 spd chain, or the even more narrow 11 spd chain.
And chain rings and cassettes are spec'd by the chain they are designed for.

Yes, sorry, I knew that, just misremembered the gear choices that chain claims to be. I had remembered it spanned over the size I'm going to now (7), and bigger, so I just started one gear count off - oops! Here's its official name:
Shimano CH-HG71 6/7/8 - I guess they dropped the 5! Marketing!

Since my 1982 bike was a 5, I guess that makes it a 5-8 as it's definitely the same, so far as I can tell. If anything, my old chain is narrower, at least on the outside.

 

[BeachRider2016]

Trying to rewire a throttle/brake to work with the vlcd5 display but i cant read chinese
Anyone can translate ?

 

[eyebyesickle]

A little clarification guys... sorry I am slammed, sticking and moving, and providing what I can as I can...the last bit is not user friendly

If you are not experienced with this (AND want to hassle with the rest) then maybe wait for the VIDEO. When I said someone needs to make one, I meant a friend will - soon. I have a funny way of talking, not to mention typing... leads to poor communication, sorry! hahaha I don't have the patience for these platforms sometimes!!

The 6pin, 8pin thing... see, the VLDC-5 seems to take 6 pins/wires up, and split them inside to route to the brake and throttle. That is why when using the XH-18 display, if is important to make sure you have an 8 pin connector, otherwise you will have to run the extra lines all the way from the controller.

I did not meant o use the XH-18 and VLDC-5 together, sorry I am confusing... really bad at this... I will get some more user friendly stuff up soon... wanted to stress that this is just barebones info, I will clean it up and get something out so the community can wire their own a little easier! I promise!

Until then, have fun using image translator and matching the Chinese character next to the corresponding '5v' etc... UGH. I have a friend that works on this stuff with me... I am just an idiot who likes ebikes :lol:

 

[Norton]

Trying to rewire a throttle/brake to work with the vlcd5 display...

Guys,
Isn't there an open connector on the vlcd5 display that this factory throttle plugs directly into?
https://smile.amazon.com/TONGSHENG-...srs=15231542011&ie=UTF8&qid=1498650977&sr=8-3 $26
(As I said earlier,, I'm hiding or disconnecting the throttle when my GF is riding the ebike )

I guess you want the brake switches for 'safety reasons'? They are not needed except for "Runaway" conditions. But then if the brains of this operation has lost its mind the brake switches may not work either.
Have your battery pack where you can reach an on-off switch or pull the connection or something. Or have a bike with disc brakes and over power the runaway motor..... :lol:

I need to find the small switch assembly I saw (?) that is mounted near the grips. I think it changes assist levels with the vlcd5 and maybe has an on-off switch.

 

[atomohodez]

Kind people! I broke the blue gear after 100km. I want to put a bronze one, but I do not know where to buy it. Maybe someone knows where they are sold with delivery to Russia? Thank you.

 

[RTIII]

Isn't there an open connector on the vlcd5 display that this factory throttle plugs directly into?

Yes, I'm attaching two images I downloaded from the Tongsheng web site. One is a "logical diagram" showing all the wiring hooked up, and the other shows the back of the VLCD5 showing the brakes connected, but, curiously, not the throttle. The throttle connects between the brake connections. There are black rubber plugs filling the voids when you're not running these parts.

I guess you want the brake switches for 'safety reasons'? They are not needed except for "Runaway" conditions. But then if the brains of this operation has lost its mind the brake switches may not work either.

Without the throttle, the motor only assists when you pedal, so in an emergency, stop pedaling! But with a throttle, it doesn't know you're having an emergency and keeps adding power, so, when you hit either brake, there's a cut-out switch that tells the motor to stop adding power. If the brains of the operation keeps pedaling or fails to hit the brakes, that's not the TSDZ2's fault! :lol:

I need to find the small switch assembly I saw (?) that is mounted near the grips. I think it changes assist levels with the vlcd5 and maybe has an on-off switch.

It comes with the unit I pointed you at. :wink:

BY THE WAY, the part the throttle and hand brakes attach to is ALSO the mount for the VLCD-5, and detaches from the screen! That way (almost) all the wiring stays on the bike and you can take the display with you, in your pocket rather than have it get stolen...

 

[RTIII]

Kind people! I broke the blue gear after 100km. I want to put a bronze one, but I do not know where to buy it. Maybe someone knows where they are sold with delivery to Russia? Thank you.

An Italian company sells copper ones (not bronze). Most recently, eye gave us a link only a couple of days ago, though in months past, in this same thread, others have also provided a link to them. I think eye also included an image, so you can just go scrolling looking for the image and then, likely, find the link nearby.

 

[RTIII]

I feel like a kid who's just awaking on Christmas morning; great anticipation!

I was lingering over a cup of coffee -Ahhhh!- and decided to check in on my various packages due soon. Nothing more was expected until Friday, but I have tracking numbers, etc. Checked for my new steel 52T chainring - still on its way across the continent, from CT to CA, due tomorrow, a day earlier than previously planned. Then, the extra-long chainring bolts, still due Friday. Then -yawn- the BATTERY, expected starting Friday but possibly as far in the future as JULY 12. So, imagine my delight when instead I read this:

On Vehicle for Delivery Today

Woo Hoo!

...Only 1 problem: Figuring I wouldn't have the battery until AT LEAST Friday, last night I tore down the rear end to widen it for the new, wider, axle and to design and fabricate anchors for the new kickstand that arrived yesterday (and was due JULY 7 - 28!) (Checks calendar!) So, it's all apart! Oops!

So now I'm contemplating how I'm gonna get this thing rolling TODAY! 8) :lol:

BTW, I updated my bike's build thread to include some images from yesterday's work - and it includes a few shots of the chainline... That thread is here:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=88943&p=1300104#p1300104

 

[RTIII]

Here's an image I uploaded almost two weeks ago - as a reminder: This is the back of the VLCD-5, disconnected from the spot where the brakes / throttle wire in.

The extra wire coming off the VLCD-5 - wired directly to it - is for the small controller switches that Norton was asking about. I mounted mine on the handlebar yoke.

 

[Norton]

.... a "logical diagram" showing all the wiring hooked up, and the other shows the back of the VLCD5 showing the brakes connected, but, curiously, not the throttle. The throttle connects between the brake connections. There are black rubber plugs filling the voids when you're not running these parts.
...BY THE WAY, the part the throttle and hand brakes attach to is ALSO the mount for the VLCD-5, and detaches from the screen! That way (almost) all the wiring stays on the bike and you can take the display with you, in your pocket rather than have it get stolen...

RT,
Thanks for the informative post!

A lot of this info I just couldn't find looking at the vendors sites.
This seems like such an advanced little mid-drive compared to the Bafang !! Just not as powerful.
Looking forward to your following reports on how you like it and your new battery pack.

 

[BeachRider2016]

Thanks Rt for the images of the vlcd5 display. I have an exact same one. There are 3 ports on there and prob 2 brakes and 1 throttle. From your pic (aliexpress has onde as well) the throttle goes to the middle port.
I was asking on the wirings because i got a few regular throttles laying around and was just going to ghetto wire it to test on throttling function. A typical throttle has black/red/green wire, I wasnt sure which combination to try.
Ebay or amazon got the thumb throttle for $20/piece...a bit pricey imo, a cheap $1.99 throttle will do just fine if the wirings are correct.

I even got a bafang thumb throttle around, prob can make an adapter for it as well. Tsdz port looks like it fit a typical 3 wires slot from a computer/radio/electronic board connector.

Got my 350w installed tonight and test drove it around. I was a bit dissapointed actually. Power was weaker than a bafang 350w36v and the left crank kept working itself loose. I finally put some pipe threading tape on it and that seems to help.
But power wise was a bit weak. Prior kit was a 900w Cyclone, though the noise was obvious it was flying with major torque! But i guess torque sensing tsdz2 is kinda fun to require some work as user input. I still want to be lazy and throttling from time to time. :lol:

 

[daenny]

Regarding the pinout, some programming ideas and a protocol analysis, there was a conversation about it a while back:

starting here:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=79788&hilit=pinout&start=175#p1237467

and i summarised the pinout here:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=79788&p=1251981&hilit=pinout#p1251981

So in my case (36V 350W, motor from PSW power), I have all cables going to the display (xh-18), but some are just not connected. The "bad" thing is that the 6v light connector is actually at the back, so for a headlight you would need to run another cable to the front.

 

[Norton]

Kind people! I broke the blue gear after 100km. I want to put a bronze one, but I do not know where to buy it. Maybe someone knows where they are sold with delivery to Russia? Thank you.

ato,
Sorry to hear this. There is a link up this thread to a place in Italy that sells the metal gear. I doubt they actually make it. You might find it other places.

Were you using a throttle at low RPM and High Power? The idea with a mid-drive is to keep a good cadence with the pedals and the motor. Still, it's sad that it failed so soon....

 

[Norton]

>... was just going to ghetto wire it to test on throttling function. ...
Ebay or amazon got the thumb throttle for $20/piece...a bit pricey imo, a cheap $1.99 throttle will do just fine if the wirings are correct.

>>Got my 350w installed tonight and test drove it around. I was a bit dissapointed actually. Power was weaker than a bafang 350w36v and the left crank kept working itself loose.

>>... I still want to be lazy and throttling from time to time. :lol:

>This is an example of why you want a Brake switches or some other power switch. A cheap broke throttle or bad ghetto wiring can make the "Runaway Motor" situation I was talking about.
>>That's sad to hear. So, 500W TSDZ2 it is for me! Square taper cranks are old school. They should be assembled with a light grease coating, so they come apart later, and a Torque Wrench. Get serious with these parts.
>>> Me too !! :lol:

 

[RTIII]

Got my 350w installed tonight and test drove it around. I was a bit dissapointed actually.

Do keep in mind that at every power-up, the system goes through an initialization process and if there is any torque on the pedals, it takes that as "zero". Owner reports WAY up-thread talk about this issue and say that if you are having performance issues, this could well be the cause - several people reported it was the case for them; not touching the pedals at power up cured the problem.

 

[chas58]

What is the C rate of your battery? That is a small battery, and unless you have very good cells, it won't be able to do much more than 8-10 amps. I have a small battery with really high capacity high current cells, but still that won't do much more than 15 amps reliably.

 

[eyebyesickle]

Regarding the pinout, some programming ideas and a protocol analysis, there was a conversation about it a while back:

starting here:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=79788&hilit=pinout&start=175#p1237467

and i summarised the pinout here:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=79788&p=1251981&hilit=pinout#p1251981

So in my case (36V 350W, motor from PSW power), I have all cables going to the display (xh-18), but some are just not connected. The "bad" thing is that the 6v light connector is actually at the back, so for a headlight you would need to run another cable to the front.

There ya go! One step ahead =) Awesome

 

[BeachRider2016]

Its the LgH2 batteries, 20A continuous discharge, 4p10s. Definitely not the battery, but im thinking it could be the positioning of the motor that couldve robbed some torque. Motor is mounted on a full suspension frame so I couldnt get the rear clamp down so the motor lean forward against the frame.
Im not sure where the torque sensor is but maybe the angle is off. I will try to have the motor perpendicular to the ground and see if it changes any.

Update:

It was the position of the motor caused the motor to under perform. I have a full suspension bike so the rear lock coukdnt work so the motor ended up parallel to the frame. Which caused the crank to come loose and a hellot harder to get torque sensor to engage.
I wedged a rubber block to push the motor perpendicular to the bb and its working alot better, no more crank/bolt coming loose and torque kicking in quite strong. Though not as strong as a 900w cyclone motor but its alright for cruising around with a dog on a leash so he can get some exercise.

It seems like this motor is great for a road bike. I got a carbon road bike that have been collecting dust, might install this motor on it and feel like 20s again

This morning I made a 3 pins connector to hook up to the middle port on the vlcd5 display and played with 9 different combinations hoping to get the throttle to work but no luck.

Norton, this motor is so weak, even a run away wouldnt even be an issue for my hydraulic brakes to stop it cold. If you think this 350w motor can cause that much issue then clearly you have not play around with higher power motors. This tsdz2 is the weakest of anything ive owned up to date. Theres nothing wrong with ghetto rig to test out, this whole forum is full of MacGyvers, if you arent one you shouldnt be here bud. Just buy a premanufactured bike and be happy like the rest of the other crowd.

Oh, how do you guys change the parameters on the display ? ie km-miles? wheel size to trick the system to go faster? it seemed to cut off at 25km ~15mph...pretty slow

 

[RTIII]

this whole forum is full of MacGyvers, if you arent one you shouldnt be here bud. Just buy a premanufactured bike and be happy like the rest of the other crowd.

THAT'S NOT AN APPROPRIATE COMMENT TO MAKE.

You owe Norton an apology.

SERIOUSLY.

 

[BeachRider2016]

this whole forum is full of MacGyvers, if you arent one you shouldnt be here bud. Just buy a premanufactured bike and be happy like the rest of the other crowd.

THAT'S NOT AN APPROPRIATE COMMENT TO MAKE.

You owe Norton an apology.

SERIOUSLY.

lol, heck absolutely NO apologies from me. That was for his comment on my "ghetto rigged" throttle. I'm damn proud of all my ghetto rigs. Don't jab on my "ghetto" style and we'll be fine.

 

[Norton]

..... Theres nothing wrong with ghetto rig to test out, this whole forum is full of MacGyvers, if you arent one you shouldnt be here bud....

Sorry if I offended, but you used the word first .. :?

I built all my bikes from bare frames. I have mech. disc brakes on my main rides - - An alu. FS NICE mtn bike (3x9) and a new steel gravel bike (2 x 10 complete Force group, baby!). These are the ones that will get this drive first.
I sold my CF Litespeed road bike (17.6 lbs). It only took 25's. I'm done with skinny tire bikes. I have a fleet of other strange bikes too ! :lol:

Good to know that the discs can over power the motor. I thought that would be the case. But I still want a 'Kill Switch' (bc chit happens)...

I work in certification of really high-end vehicles. I know safety. And I don't care about MacGyvering a piece of electronic equipment until the smoke comes out,, but that's just me. Carry on ebike hotrodders !!
If the little motor in this drive is happy with the new 18A/52V (936 W) controller, I'm in. But if it's an experiment, I'll leave that to others to mess up their drives.

 

[Waynemarlow]

Umm, surely the location position of the motor will have absolutely no bearing on its output, as the sensor rotates with the crank and is totally dependent on the strain between the crank and internal gearing, at any position of the rotation or of the vertical position of the bike.

Anyone find a cheap set of non offset cranks for the right hand side to bring the pedal offset, back a bit.

 

[BeachRider2016]

Umm, surely the location position of the motor will have absolutely no bearing on its output, as the sensor rotates with the crank and is totally dependent on the strain between the crank and internal gearing, at any position of the rotation or of the vertical position of the bike.

Anyone find a cheap set of non offset cranks for the right hand side to bring the pedal offset, back a bit.

Yea that what I initially thought but it wasnt the case with this motor. It makes a clicking noise on the right crank as the pedal rotate on the top. But once the motor moved down to where it "suppose" to be, no more issues with noise from crank and loosening bolts. But thats just my experience.

 

[Waynemarlow]

Are you sure when you had it in the non horizontal, that the frame wasn't indenting part of the plastic gear surrounds or somehow when you tightened the main locking nut, that the frame wasn't putting strain on part of the motor housing ? I can't buy into a strain guage being anything but totally indifferent of its position.

 

[BeachRider2016]

I thought the housing was metal ? I tapped on it with my finger and it felt metallic/aluminum.
Not sure if that was making the noise, but horizontal works.

Norton, its cool. Water under the bridge and evap.