casainho
10 GW
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2011
- Messages
- 6,058
I order from Europe on NKON site, and here is the most capacity cell of LG INR18650-M36 3600mAh - 10A:dameri said:
https://eu.nkon.nl/rechargeable/18650-size/lg-inr18650m36-3600mah-10a.html
I order from Europe on NKON site, and here is the most capacity cell of LG INR18650-M36 3600mAh - 10A:dameri said:
I can't remember the details, but I recall getting some errors (Win 7) that I ignored and it worked anyway.raylo32 said:I made up a programming cable following the instructions on Eco Bike site, but I am having difficulty with the ST Link software. The main software tools installed easily but I can't get the drivers to work. My laptop is Win 10 x64. I copied all the windows files over from the link provided and ran USB Install in admin mode. But the ST V2 programmer just keeps flashing red when I plug in the USB. Anyone have any words of wisdom?
tomtom50 said:The open source firmware is great if you like a lot of information on your screen and a lot of options for configuration (I love stuff like that).
On the other hand, purely functionally, the stock firmware is quite good. Don't expect the open source firmware to give a radically better riding experience or to dramatically extend battery life.
Partially correct. The newest v18 has an option but i don't think it is fully tested or the theory worked out. My understanding of BLDC theory is that no-load rpm rises with voltage, and the reason the voltage has a corresponding rpm is that the motor generates reverse emf. As rpm rises the motor can draw less and less current and develops less torque. At no-load rpm the motor generates only enough current to overcome friction. The good way to get past this is "field weakening" but it is unclear whether that works well short of full field-oriented control (FOC). Due to processing limitations some shortcuts had to be taken with the open source firmware, and the FOC is not 100% implemented. I cannot tell if the approach taken in v18 is efficient. If it isn't efficient there is a possibility of overheating the motor.Strider said:With the normal software the TSDZ2 stops assisting at a cadence of about 90 Pedal RPM's.
From what I've learned in this topic is that with the open source software the TSDZ2 will support above 90 RPM.
Is that correct?
For a given power at the motor (W) higher battery voltage draws less current. That means less resistive losses in the windings. So a 48V motor will produce less heat at high wattage (over 500W). So if you are starting from scratch a 48V or 52V battery is probably a good choice.Strider said:Further, from what i've understood is that a 52v battery is better for the TSDZ2 than a lower voltage battery + it also would help with supporting a higher cadence.
I bought a very similar battery, 14S4P 700Wh Hailong, this is 14S 5P. Unit Pack Power has a good reputation. But I later wished I had bought a different battery:Strider said:Therefore i'm planning to buy the Hailong 52v 17.5A battery with Samsung 18650 3.7V 3500mAh Cells. That that is 910wh (52Vx17.5A).
Will that work, is this a good decision? Or is it better to stick stick with a 48v battery.
Word of warning. Editing values like your screenshot doesn't work on all stock firmware. It didn't on mine, I had to replace the firmware. That worked. (My supposedly 52V system really had 48V firmware. I flashed 52V firmware.) Eco-ebikes has the stock firmware if editing values does not work.Strider said:I assume it won't work out of the box, and to get this working I first need to flash the engine.
![]()
1. Overdrive uses a 36V motor with a 48V or 52V battery and firmware that matches the battery voltage. This is sound practice, rpm/V is a function of the motor winding, using a lower voltage motor winding at higher voltage gives higher cadence. I think it is great that eco-ebikes will set it up this way for customers.Strider said:1) What is the difference between 52v and 52v O/D (overdrive)? According to the below table the cadans is much higher on the 52v O/D version. Is 52v O/D a battery with a higher voltage? On the google drive i also only see files for 52v, i don't see .hex files for 52v O/D.
![]()
2) Does using the software from eco-bikes mean that you can't use the software from casainho?
I mean, you either use the software from Casainho or the one from Eco-bikes? That would mean that in the firmware from Casainho you also should be able to adjust the voltage. No idea where that is possible.
3) To get the 52v battery working properly on the TSDZ2 motor, only flashing the firmware on the motor itself is enough, also on the display unit is not needed?
raylo32 said:The vendors are selling "overdrive" versions that assist up to 100 or 110 RPM. I am not sure if those are different hardware or if that is also settable in the firmware. There is no upcharge for these models so I assume it is just firmware and that those settings are in there somewhere.
tomtom50 said:I can't remember the details, but I recall getting some errors (Win 7) that I ignored and it worked anyway.raylo32 said:I made up a programming cable following the instructions on Eco Bike site, but I am having difficulty with the ST Link software. The main software tools installed easily but I can't get the drivers to work. My laptop is Win 10 x64. I copied all the windows files over from the link provided and ran USB Install in admin mode. But the ST V2 programmer just keeps flashing red when I plug in the USB. Anyone have any words of wisdom?
Cadence is not about mph. It is how you ride. Some riders have a high cadence, they use lower gears to go the same speed, the have higher cadence climbing a hill.raylo32 said:Strider you can use any firmware you want. I went with what the vendor recommended to get this thing up and running and it seems to work just fine. You could always change over to the open source stuff later. I haven't looked into it yet but I assume it provides more tunability and I will probably get into that later after seeing how she runs stock. As for the "overdrive" near as I can tell is that alls it does is provide assist to a higher RPM. The 52V standard is 100 RPM, not 90 and that is fast enough. You might want higher if you are running a smaller chainring but you still have the 28 mph speed limit. I hit that spinning pretty good in 7th (out of eight) gear with my 48T ring and in 8th gear it is a more comfortable cadence, so I really don't need the overdrive. YMMV.
Hi, thanks. I don't want to give the impression the open source firmware isn't great. It is and I'm glad I installed it. I also don't wat people to have the impression the TSDZ2 has lame stock firmware and is only decent with open source firmware. The stock firmware is smooth and reliable and a stock TSDZ2 is a good ebike. An open source equipped TSDZ2 is even better, with tons of configuration options.mctubster said:tomtom50 said:The open source firmware is great if you like a lot of information on your screen and a lot of options for configuration (I love stuff like that).
On the other hand, purely functionally, the stock firmware is quite good. Don't expect the open source firmware to give a radically better riding experience or to dramatically extend battery life.
I rode with a Bafang mid drive for a year. (100km per week)
I then rode with the stock firmware TSDZ2 for a month and then switched to the opensource firmware.
For me the primary advantages of the opensource firmware
- Higher cadence without overvolting or "overdrive" versions of the motor, eg running the 36V motor with 42V, 48V etc
- Cadence does not drop off much as the battery discharges due to optimised FOC algorithm, eg my 36V motor using a 36V nominal battery at 32V (ie 90% discharged) still gives me 70-80rpm at 80% of max power output (400W).
- Temperature monitoring and cutout for overtemp. If you like running on high assist you really need this or very easy to overheat and damage your motor windings or permanent magnets.
- Controller restricts power output to motor as your battery hits the minimum voltage, giving you some limp home power
- Boost function, giving extra power when starting from stop, but then backing off. Great for heavy bikes accelerating from a standstill but then requiring less assistance once moving. Means you don't have to muck around with assist levels or throttles.
- Much better battery state of charge monitoring, not a simple estimate based on battery voltage that does not take into account battery load and internal resistance
- Many other reasons, these just come to mind
Cheers
tomtom50 said:Cadence is not about mph. It is how you ride. Some riders have a high cadence, they use lower gears to go the same speed, the have higher cadence climbing a hill.raylo32 said:Strider you can use any firmware you want. I went with what the vendor recommended to get this thing up and running and it seems to work just fine. You could always change over to the open source stuff later. I haven't looked into it yet but I assume it provides more tunability and I will probably get into that later after seeing how she runs stock. As for the "overdrive" near as I can tell is that alls it does is provide assist to a higher RPM. The 52V standard is 100 RPM, not 90 and that is fast enough. You might want higher if you are running a smaller chainring but you still have the 28 mph speed limit. I hit that spinning pretty good in 7th (out of eight) gear with my 48T ring and in 8th gear it is a more comfortable cadence, so I really don't need the overdrive. YMMV.
Racers train to a higher cadence, it is considered more efficient in competitive riding.
Ride for a while and count pedal cranks in a minute. If you are higher than 80 rpm using 48V/52V battery and firmware on a 36V motor might be worth it.
raylo32 said:In a given gear combo cadence is indeed indicative of MPH. You need to know your tire diameter and your gears to figure gear inches or use gear ratios to calculate this out. Pick your gear inches for the speed and cadence you want ride. Easy peasy. The built in 28 mph speed limit sets the parameters for figuring out what you need, i.e what cadence you hit that speed in your chosen gear. I have done a lot of riding and racing and higher cadences work for fast pacelines and such. But for the kind of riding I plan to do on an on an e-bike I don't want to be spinning 100 RPM.
I don't think we disagree. when riding a bike the rider adjusts gears to match speed and a comfortable cadence. The issue with TDSZ2 is that riders who have a high preferred cadence can run out of assist.tomtom50 said:Cadence is not about mph. It is how you ride. Some riders have a high cadence, they use lower gears to go the same speed, the have higher cadence climbing a hill.raylo32 said:Strider you can use any firmware you want. I went with what the vendor recommended to get this thing up and running and it seems to work just fine. You could always change over to the open source stuff later. I haven't looked into it yet but I assume it provides more tunability and I will probably get into that later after seeing how she runs stock. As for the "overdrive" near as I can tell is that alls it does is provide assist to a higher RPM. The 52V standard is 100 RPM, not 90 and that is fast enough. You might want higher if you are running a smaller chainring but you still have the 28 mph speed limit. I hit that spinning pretty good in 7th (out of eight) gear with my 48T ring and in 8th gear it is a more comfortable cadence, so I really don't need the overdrive. YMMV.
Racers train to a higher cadence, it is considered more efficient in competitive riding.
Ride for a while and count pedal cranks in a minute. If you are higher than 80 rpm using 48V/52V battery and firmware on a 36V motor might be worth it.
toñocid said:I fully agree with christian. the problem of the torque sensor is the groove for the ring that fixes the bearing,this groove makes torque very weak.tongsheng engeneers must improve it.us torque becomes unusefull after braking the cheapest solution can be solding the ring directly with no groove.
[/quote]raylo32 said:Exactly. But I don't know any riders other than racers going full on on a breakaway that want to spin at 100 to 120 RPM. So for e-bikers needing to go that high is due to their choice of gearing (but why?) ... or the constraints of the bike... for chainring size and rear gearing cluster... and having only a single chainring. One other dilemma is having an easy enough gear to pedal yourself up hills to get home if your motor or battery dies with a porky e-bike that is 15 or 20 pounds heavier than it used to be. But if you gear with that in mind that you might get spun out of assist before you get to the 28 mph limit. But I can't imagine that spinning at 100 to 120 RPM would be fun even with assist. That would still be a workout in itself.
I don't think we disagree. when riding a bike the rider adjusts gears to match speed and a comfortable cadence. The issue with TDSZ2 is that riders who have a high preferred cadence can run out of assist.
Peetsyo said:Question about 14S2P battery
Current draw 14A for 30minutes(0,5hours) so 14 x 0,5 = 7Ah 14S2P battery will have cell temp around 50degreesC ,
Can the motor handle constant 14A for 30 minutes ?
So when not riding like a madman , 14S2P should be more than enough , without overheating the battery.
Because you pedal along, the range for this capacity would probably be about 20-25km ? which is sufficient if you charge it daily @ office ?
How long can TSDZ2 handle ie. 15A before becoming too hot ?
elknerps said:I was thinking about a idea I had to make any stock display compatible with the open source code for the TSDZ2. I was thinking of putting a Arduino Nano in the middle of the display and motor. It would intercept the serial communication and modify the motor packages and change them and then send the results to the display and the same in the other direction. Then in the Nano code have as many settings you have for pedal assist and just have that be a number of custom settings that would be hard coded in the Nano. You could even have a custom setting were it would send the temp and wattage to the display instead of the batt and speed. It seems like it would be a very easy project, anyone heard of someone doing that yet and if not any issues you might think of?
tomtom50 said:Cadence is not about mph. It is how you ride. Some riders have a high cadence, they use lower gears to go the same speed, the have higher cadence climbing a hill.raylo32 said:Strider you can use any firmware you want. I went with what the vendor recommended to get this thing up and running and it seems to work just fine. You could always change over to the open source stuff later. I haven't looked into it yet but I assume it provides more tunability and I will probably get into that later after seeing how she runs stock. As for the "overdrive" near as I can tell is that alls it does is provide assist to a higher RPM. The 52V standard is 100 RPM, not 90 and that is fast enough. You might want higher if you are running a smaller chainring but you still have the 28 mph speed limit. I hit that spinning pretty good in 7th (out of eight) gear with my 48T ring and in 8th gear it is a more comfortable cadence, so I really don't need the overdrive. YMMV.
Racers train to a higher cadence, it is considered more efficient in competitive riding.
Ride for a while and count pedal cranks in a minute. If you are higher than 80 rpm using 48V/52V battery and firmware on a 36V motor might be worth it.
tomtom50 said:Peetsyo said:Question about 14S2P battery
Current draw 14A for 30minutes(0,5hours) so 14 x 0,5 = 7Ah 14S2P battery will have cell temp around 50degreesC ,
Can the motor handle constant 14A for 30 minutes ?
So when not riding like a madman , 14S2P should be more than enough , without overheating the battery.
Because you pedal along, the range for this capacity would probably be about 20-25km ? which is sufficient if you charge it daily @ office ?
How long can TSDZ2 handle ie. 15A before becoming too hot ?
To throw some perspective on your question, here is a screen shot from bikecalculator indicating how fast you would go on the flat at 14A (44kph), 7A (33kph), and 3.5A (24kph). I estimate efficiency of the controller, motor, and gear transmission at 80%. So 52*14=728W, 728W*0.8=582W at the pedals. I don't know if the motor could stand 30 minutes at 14A (both the motor and the plastic gear could fail due to accumulated heat), but an hour 7A would be safer all around, TSDZ2 & battery both, and speed only drops 25%, all because air friction rises to the square of velocity.
582W.png291W.png146W.png
raylo32 said:This is great info and confirms my thoughts. The TSDZ2 is a nice unit but doesn't give the impression that it is heavy duty and built for long term max power usage. It is an e-bike, not an e-motorcycle. I wish the display would show amps in real time. That would make it easier for a rider to keep it operating in the "green" zone and not risk overheating and damage to the plastic gear or other components. I am going to have to restrain myself, especially on the 2 mile climb back up to my neighborhood that ends every ride. Gear down and not push for 20 mph.
tomtom50 said:Peetsyo said:Question about 14S2P battery
Current draw 14A for 30minutes(0,5hours) so 14 x 0,5 = 7Ah 14S2P battery will have cell temp around 50degreesC ,
Can the motor handle constant 14A for 30 minutes ?
So when not riding like a madman , 14S2P should be more than enough , without overheating the battery.
Because you pedal along, the range for this capacity would probably be about 20-25km ? which is sufficient if you charge it daily @ office ?
How long can TSDZ2 handle ie. 15A before becoming too hot ?
To throw some perspective on your question, here is a screen shot from bikecalculator indicating how fast you would go on the flat at 14A (44kph), 7A (33kph), and 3.5A (24kph). I estimate efficiency of the controller, motor, and gear transmission at 80%. So 52*14=728W, 728W*0.8=582W at the pedals. I don't know if the motor could stand 30 minutes at 14A (both the motor and the plastic gear could fail due to accumulated heat), but an hour 7A would be safer all around, TSDZ2 & battery both, and speed only drops 25%, all because air friction rises to the square of velocity.
582W.png291W.png146W.png
casainho said:Use the OpenSource firmware where you can see the amps, configure the current ramp step, configure the motor max temperature power reducing and limit, etc.
raylo32 said:This is great info and confirms my thoughts. The TSDZ2 is a nice unit but doesn't give the impression that it is heavy duty and built for long term max power usage. It is an e-bike, not an e-motorcycle. I wish the display would show amps in real time. That would make it easier for a rider to keep it operating in the "green" zone and not risk overheating and damage to the plastic gear or other components. I am going to have to restrain myself, especially on the 2 mile climb back up to my neighborhood that ends every ride. Gear down and not push for 20 mph.
tomtom50 said:Peetsyo said:Question about 14S2P battery
Current draw 14A for 30minutes(0,5hours) so 14 x 0,5 = 7Ah 14S2P battery will have cell temp around 50degreesC ,
Can the motor handle constant 14A for 30 minutes ?
So when not riding like a madman , 14S2P should be more than enough , without overheating the battery.
Because you pedal along, the range for this capacity would probably be about 20-25km ? which is sufficient if you charge it daily @ office ?
How long can TSDZ2 handle ie. 15A before becoming too hot ?
To throw some perspective on your question, here is a screen shot from bikecalculator indicating how fast you would go on the flat at 14A (44kph), 7A (33kph), and 3.5A (24kph). I estimate efficiency of the controller, motor, and gear transmission at 80%. So 52*14=728W, 728W*0.8=582W at the pedals. I don't know if the motor could stand 30 minutes at 14A (both the motor and the plastic gear could fail due to accumulated heat), but an hour 7A would be safer all around, TSDZ2 & battery both, and speed only drops 25%, all because air friction rises to the square of velocity.
582W.png291W.png146W.png