New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

[dahu33]

I've recently finished to install a TSDZ2 on a bicycle equipped with a Shimano Alfine 11-speed Geared Hub. I find that shifting gear is quite hard at high assistance level without stopping pedaling for more than second. This making shifting gear a slow an inefficient process, most likely due to the "long" delay / lag between the moment I stop pedaling and the moment the motor stop...

To solve this problem and to protect the geared hub, I'm thinking to install a Bafang gear shift sensor by connecting it to the brake sensor input. Did anyone try to install a shift sensor on a TSDZ2 and could give me some feedback and wether it works well or no?

 

[mdumdei]

Hello Casainho and all Community,

Open source firmware for the tsdz2 is great and I am happy using it for few months.
Sometimes I just got sth wrong on the display (850c) showing speed grater then 100 or 200 and then motor doesn't work. Did You have such a problems?
And here is my bike:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/iRGdRK4SsfTsLF5K7

As Elinx said already, it is more than likely something with the speed sensor. Mine was doing the exact same thing, but I had a spare sensor and just swapped it - no more problem. Could be a bad/loose/dirty connection back to the sensor too.

 

[kporkus]

Hi casainho and fellow tsdz2 owners,

Thank you for all the work that's gone into this open source firmware - it looks great! I'm a software developer myself so maybe one day I'll be able to contribute.

At the moment I'm in the process of installing the 850c display firmware but have hit a problem.

I flashed 850C_v1.1.0-boatloader.bin and the upload completed successfully but now the display won't turn on. I don't think the display is "bricked" because I can re-flash it. The display turned on before flashing when connected via the same mechanism.

I'm using a "homemade" bootloader box with a DC step up to 30V as described in the GitHub wiki guide.

Has anyone had this issue or does anyone have suggestions for a fix? I've tried re-flashing a couple of times and it was successful every time but still wouldn't power on. I also tried the previous OSF version.


I noticed the manufacture date on my 850c display is March 2021 and it says v5.2 - so I'm wondering whether this is a new revision the firmware is not compatible with.

Thanks

 

[kporkus]

I noticed the manufacture date on my 850c display is March 2021 and it says v5.2 - so I'm wondering whether this is a new revision the firmware is not compatible with.

Apologies I found the post where this was previously discussed (I did try searching, I swear!)

I am using this fork which has a version compiled for the 2021 850C https://github.com/emmebrusa/TSDZ2-Smart-EBike-860C/releases

 

[fl2020]

Urgent question:

Has anyone bought a torque sensor off AliExpress and does it come with the spindle?

Reason I'm asking is I can't seem to find any info on where to get replacement spindles from, think ecocycles sold them before but they are down at the moment.

 

[blowhole]

The pedal assist stopped working in the first few miles on a new build 48v 8pin, VLCD5, stock firmware. Throttle and walk assist work perfectly. The hidden menu shows TE/TE1 values of zero regardless of manipulating the pedals.

I would suspect a faulty torque sensor given the TE reading of zero, but I have not been able to find any others on this forum who reported the same. Is it possible to test the torque sensor with a multimeter? (Edit: related)

To close the loop on this, I did not figure out how to test the torque sensor, but I replaced it anyway. And happy to report that now my pedal assist works again! The TE no longer shows as zero, instead around 65.

Unlike some other posts where the faulty part was cracked or wires were disconnected, I am at a loss to explain why mine failed so prematurely. I will keep the old parts as spares and maybe in the future I can see whether it was the ring or the magnet that went bad.

 

[jeff.page.rides]

I noticed the manufacture date on my 850c display is March 2021 and it says v5.2 - so I'm wondering whether this is a new revision the firmware is not compatible with.

Apologies I found the post where this was previously discussed (I did try searching, I swear!)

I am using this fork which has a version compiled for the 2021 850C https://github.com/emmebrusa/TSDZ2-Smart-EBike-860C/releases

Try this link,
https://github.com/emmebrusa/TSDZ2-Smart-EBike-860C/releases/tag/v20.1C.3-860C-NEW

 

[skestans]

My motor started making grinding noises only when I’m pedaling. If I stop pedalling but the wheels keep turning, no sound.

So I removed the spider and it looks like it rubs a tiny bit on the motor body… I wasn’t able to fix it (all screws are tight) and all I could do was apply some silicon grease to the area to at least reduce friction and abrasion.

My spider also wobbles slightly, I wonder if that’s normal. The motor is barely 18 months old and less than 2000km.

How do I fix this and prevent further damage?

 

[dameri]

My motor started making grinding noises only when I’m pedaling. If I stop pedalling but the wheels keep turning, no sound.

So I removed the spider and it looks like it rubs a tiny bit on the motor body… I wasn’t able to fix it (all screws are tight) and all I could do was apply some silicon grease to the area to at least reduce friction and abrasion.

My spider also wobbles slightly, I wonder if that’s normal. The motor is barely 18 months old and less than 2000km.

How do I fix this and prevent further damage?

I have had same problem in four motors. It's famous chinese goodness.

 

[skestans]

My motor started making grinding noises only when I’m pedaling. If I stop pedalling but the wheels keep turning, no sound.

So I removed the spider and it looks like it rubs a tiny bit on the motor body… I wasn’t able to fix it (all screws are tight) and all I could do was apply some silicon grease to the area to at least reduce friction and abrasion.

My spider also wobbles slightly, I wonder if that’s normal. The motor is barely 18 months old and less than 2000km.

How do I fix this and prevent further damage?

I have had same problem in four motors. It's famous chinese goodness.

Ugh. Did you find a fix/mitigation?

 

[dameri]

My motor started making grinding noises only when I’m pedaling. If I stop pedalling but the wheels keep turning, no sound.

So I removed the spider and it looks like it rubs a tiny bit on the motor body… I wasn’t able to fix it (all screws are tight) and all I could do was apply some silicon grease to the area to at least reduce friction and abrasion.

My spider also wobbles slightly, I wonder if that’s normal. The motor is barely 18 months old and less than 2000km.

How do I fix this and prevent further damage?

I have had same problem in four motors. It's famous chinese goodness.

Ugh. Did you find a fix/mitigation?

No, next motor is quiet for a little while if you're lucky.

 

[skestans]

Same here, 1500km, mostly on roads, some on gravel. Nothing outrageous, max speed around 25kmh, and I’m not heavier than the next rider.

And yet, it rubs.

Would appreciate any tips to fix this issue.

Applying grease didn’t help after a few kilometers and the grinding sound is still there.

 

[Woly]

I suggest you search this thread for the word "wobble" and you will get more than you want to know about this problem.

 

[mctubster]

Just had something pop in my motor. Approx 3000km on a heavy cargo bike

I thought a shaft had broken, it was a loud crack noise, but I pulled it apart and both the motor and main gear shafts are fine. Looks like the one way clutch in the blue gear has gone! Haven't read about this one before. Waiting for a replacement from China.

 

[ebbsocalMTB]

I don't have all that much to add here... Bike has been performing well for me and I put more miles on it in the last 2 weeks then I ever had in this short of a time period. I did a handful of days commuting on it doing around 17miles per day round trip and I on one day, I took the very long way home and did a 34 miles and 2,500' of climbing taking the scenic route from my office, to the pacific ocean and then back to my house.

Part way through that ride, the lock ring loosened up and I had to tighten it by hand and take it very easy on the way home checking it constantly. The motor does also seem to have a reciprical rubbing sound when it's off and I'm pedaling it in the work stand, I'm wondering if it's the same housing/clearance issue that @skestans is having. I'm going to take the spider off and check that. Maybe I need to replace the sprang clutch already.

My 71 year old dad visited me last week, and he rode this bike every day for 6 days straight and he absolutely loved it. Now he wants me to build him one of these to replace his ecotric, off the shelf hub motor fat bike. We rode about 8-12 miles a day, but with 1,500 - 2,000 of climbing on each ride. He mainly used assist levels 8 - 14, and we never encountered any heat related issues or any problems of any kind.

A few more things to note:
-Heating mods are an absolute must on this motor. My days of worrying about the temps and the heat build up are gone.
-This 48v - 13ah battery is simply too big for most things. I can go multiple rides without charging it. This has me considering getting a 6ah battery made of higher capacity cells so that I could have a light weight battery for 80% of my rides.
-The custom 7 speeds, on 11 speed spacing drivetrain is still perfect for this bike and the chainline is definitely acceptable. I may get a 10mm offset direct mount 42t for this thing... but I'd love to find a way to run a 36t and a 42t chain ring at the same time, and not pay dearly with the chainline to accomplish that.

Overall very happy with this build... Although I will be listing it for sale to see if I can get a good price for it. I just got my wife an orbea rise and now I want one If you're in socal and you're interested in this bike, let me know.

Taking the long way home.

My 71 year old pops, shredding on this thing.

 

[Tefoonez]

I don't have all that much to add here... Bike has been performing well for me and I put more miles on it in the last 2 weeks then I ever had in this short of a time period. I did a handful of days commuting on it doing around 17miles per day round trip and I on one day, I took the very long way home and did a 34 miles and 2,500' of climbing taking the scenic route from my office, to the pacific ocean and then back to my house.

Part way through that ride, the lock ring loosened up and I had to tighten it by hand and take it very easy on the way home checking it constantly. The motor does also seem to have a reciprical rubbing sound when it's off and I'm pedaling it in the work stand, I'm wondering if it's the same housing/clearance issue that @skestans is having. I'm going to take the spider off and check that. Maybe I need to replace the sprang clutch already.

My 71 year old dad visited me last week, and he rode this bike every day for 6 days straight and he absolutely loved it. Now he wants me to build him one of these to replace his ecotric, off the shelf hub motor fat bike. We rode about 8-12 miles a day, but with 1,500 - 2,000 of climbing on each ride. He mainly used assist levels 8 - 14, and we never encountered any heat related issues or any problems of any kind.

A few more things to note:
-Heating mods are an absolute must on this motor. My days of worrying about the temps and the heat build up are gone.
-This 48v - 13ah battery is simply too big for most things. I can go multiple rides without charging it. This has me considering getting a 6ah battery made of higher capacity cells so that I could have a light weight battery for 80% of my rides.
-The custom 7 speeds, on 11 speed spacing drivetrain is still perfect for this bike and the chainline is definitely acceptable. I may get a 10mm offset direct mount 42t for this thing... but I'd love to find a way to run a 36t and a 42t chain ring at the same time, and not pay dearly with the chainline to accomplish that.

Overall very happy with this build... Although I will be listing it for sale to see if I can get a good price for it. I just got my wife an orbea rise and now I want one If you're in socal and you're interested in this bike, let me know.

Taking the long way home.

My 71 year old pops, shredding on this thing.

Great to read and see. Exactly what electric bikes are about - enabling people to enjoy more days out in the saddle than if they had no pedal assist.
I'm curious about the heat mods you mention. I have just changed my front ring to a 52 as the 42 was too small for my flattish roads but I'm cautious about starting off in to high a gear and too much assist (my reason for buying is simply to input the same amount of effort but get home/about quicker)

 

[ebbsocalMTB]

Great to read and see. Exactly what electric bikes are about - enabling people to enjoy more days out in the saddle than if they had no pedal assist.
I'm curious about the heat mods you mention. I have just changed my front ring to a 52 as the 42 was too small for my flattish roads but I'm cautious about starting off in to high a gear and too much assist (my reason for buying is simply to input the same amount of effort but get home/about quicker)

Thanks for the response. It's pretty special for me to be able to share the hobby that I love (addicted might be a better term) with my dad. It's something that I never really expected, but now that I've been able to do so, it's made the whole thing a bit more special. It's pretty awesome watching some one even at his age, feel like a kid again as soon as they press the pedals down for the first time.

Regarding the cooling mods, I did what is mostly listed in the wiki/faq, and on the tsdz2 cooling mods thread a few down from this one. That included the following:
-Silent Thunder Ordinance heat sink/shim plate
-Thermal Grease between the between the motor end flanges (accessed by pulling apart the motor/stator)
-Thermal Grease between the motor end plate, and the housing
-Thermal Putty (from eco-ebike) to fill the gap between the end of the motor and the casing
-Aluminum tube (3-1/8") slot cut wrapped around the motor to bridge the gap between the side of the motor and the casing (round part) around the circumference of the motor, an up against the motor windings in the recess

Prior to doing those mods, I would see the motor heat up and start thermal throttling after about 25-30 minutes, at assist level 6 (with a fresh battery), which would mean about 250 nominal watts, with certain periods of 350-400 when pulling away from a stop. Now, I can pretty much ride it without worrying too much about the temps at all, and it operates as a true, 250w nominal e-bike. Meaning, it can average 250w endlessly without running into heating issues. In addition to that, previous to the heating mods, once it got up to 175F (85C), it would take forever to cool back down, and now it will drop 10-15F just sitting at a stop light.

From my experience, there are a few things that cause it to heat up quickly:
-Very high cadence leading to sustained motor rpm's above 4,000 (400 indicated on the 850c)
-Sustained nominal power output in excess of 200w.
-Stop and go type riding, in high assist levels where you are pushing 350-400w to accelerate away from a stoplight, and then 2 blocks later doing it all over again... lack of airflow, high load, and no way to shed the heat to the housing (prior to mods)

Of those things, high nominal (sustained average) loads over 200w and the high cadence is the real driver for everything. As long as you're keeping rpm's around 3,500 - 4,000 and you're averaging 200w you should be relatively ok (without cooling mods). If you're going to do hill climbs, try and spin at higher rpm, or try and run 6-8amps and 250w+ nominal, the system won't do that for more then 20 minutes without overheating.

 

[ZeroEm]

I set up my mother (81yr) up on a trike I put a kit on. It was worth it but she is ridding less now but she always feels good after a ride. e-bikes are great for enabling people to get out once they start to slow down.

 

[skestans]

I suggest you search this thread for the word "wobble" and you will get more than you want to know about this problem.

So I have, and my problem is not that the axle wobbles (it doesn't); it's that the spider does.

I tried untightening the five screws: wobble and rubs. Tightening: wobbles and rubs.

The only "fix" I can think of is to add washers between the spider and the rest of the motor so that there is extra clearance for the wobble to not cause any rubbing... Hardly a good solution but I guess this is what you get with poor tolerances and materials

If anyone has a better idea that doesn't require a bearing press, I'm all ears.

 

[Blacklite]

So I have, and my problem is not that the axle wobbles (it doesn't); it's that the spider does.

I tried untightening the five screws: wobble and rubs. Tightening: wobbles and rubs.

The only "fix" I can think of is to add washers between the spider and the rest of the motor so that there is extra clearance for the wobble to not cause any rubbing... Hardly a good solution but I guess this is what you get with poor tolerances and materials

If anyone has a better idea that doesn't require a bearing press, I'm all ears.

Replacing the seal between the spider and the axle with a bearing got rid of the wobble in the spider for me - a fixed bearing has much less play than the cheap sprag clutch.

 

[dameri]

Could this what @Waynemarlow did be solution.

https://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=79788&p=1622031#p1622031

 

[Elinx]

Could this what @Waynemarlow did be solution.....

A small "how to" you find here

 

[dameri]

Could this what @Waynemarlow did be solution.....

A small "how to" you find here

This is good. Thank you

 

[fl2020]

Urgent question:

Has anyone bought a torque sensor off AliExpress and does it come with the spindle?

Reason I'm asking is I can't seem to find any info on where to get replacement spindles from, think ecocycles sold them before but they are down at the moment.

Nobody knows?

 

[blowhole]

Urgent question:

Has anyone bought a torque sensor off AliExpress and does it come with the spindle?

Reason I'm asking is I can't seem to find any info on where to get replacement spindles from, think ecocycles sold them before but they are down at the moment.

Nobody knows?

Yes, mine did. FYI ecocycles is back online now.