Optibike mid drive

[Green Machine]

Man u guys are hilarious.

I love you guys.

Thanks tool for watching my back..just when i thought no one cared.

Some pretty smart people on the sphere...i wouldnt want to tangle with them...watch yourself opti-man craig against these guys...especially in an ebike race....especially on a forum against Tyler..tyler is pure evil in case you havent realized. Does anyone have a link to tylers bike build ? i bet that thing is crystal method madness with skeletons airbrushed on it. Definately lipo powered..the dangerous kind. I bet that guy listens to motley crew. Hope he doesnt show up to pikes peek this year.

I dont think tomorrows meeting is coincidental to my postings..its coincidental to the hill climb challenge here in SF on may 14th...and the "top crow" is going to give me a mega prototype motor thats like one of those big guns that the nazis had...so that i can squash the Sphere rats like a sledge hammer squashing a tiny bug or something. They want me to show up to that hill climb in force. Aint no 9c with hobby king batteries duct taped to the frame is blowing past me this time. Tyler, Physics, Methods, tadpole man...bring all you got...the top crow is giving me a sledgehammer with an american flag sticker and "opti" painted on the side...its going to come with an instructional manual to pump that thing up to 100 volts lyon style....and they are going to give me some steel package containing USA military grade lipo...and for once i am going to get some respect around here when i smoke you guys....but i still love ya all and will wave back at you from top of the hill.

 

[CraigT]

Wow, I didn't know you cared so much about me either! I feel all warm and fuzzy, and I bet you look real cute when you get all excited proving me wrong. Good luck being right all the time, I am going to go back to building bikes. See you on the mountain.

Craig

 

[Green Machine]

What are you talking about craig?

I thought we are on the same team?

We are going to beat these guys...

Dont let their rebel rhetoric get you down...

Tyler is a mflickin bad ass i am just trying to do the fair warning thing. He is a wing clipper...he tortures small animals..the guy is a sicko steer clear...

Toughen your skin and have faith...

USA all the way...these guys would be nothing without china...

While your building..they are importing and assembling....oh oh and with lots of duct tape and gorilla glue.

China and home depot is all this forum is about...

We are going to the top of that mountain together...blowing past these guys...you and me until the wheels fall off. Drinking beers on the mountain top. With the coolest looking ebikes on the planet.

Lets show these fools how to play this game.

Tomorrow lets ride!

 

[spinningmagnets]

When I was young, the thought of working on my own cars brakes was a little scary, because car brakes are so important. But after helping a couple friends do theirs, I was comfortable doing it by myself. It was a tremendous confidence builder. Now, Though I could easily afford to pay a professional mechanic to put new pads on my front discs. I do it myself for $20 in parts.

Does that make the guy who still pays $150 for new front pads an idiot or lazy? Maybe he'd just rather pay $150 to someone else that he trusts to do it, even if he personally knows how...nothing wrong with that.

I don't know how many Optibikes are sold every month, but...apparently they sell enough to stay in business, and when assembling a product in a USA factory, thats really saying something.

Luke could get a used 1994 Civic hatch for under $1000, get a used K24 engine/trans from a wrecked Accord for under $1000, then put $2000 worth of turbo system on it, and for less than $4000 he would have a car that is a lot faster than almost all of the new "performance" cars. So why do people keep stubbornly buying cars that they want? Cars that clearly aren't as fast, and are much more expensive?

If someone is happy with an Optibike,...life is short...be happy.

 

[Green Machine]

+1 to johnhomles and spinningmagnets...

Its tough enough for a USA company to pay employees fair wages and compete with the chinese...who have no respect for game rules...ie patents, product liability, warranty etc. American consumers are spoiled and expect rock bottom prices...and still complain that the economy is failing.

And i still say opti has one of the most formidable products on the ebike market...if not the very best ebike on the commercial market...and it is a fair price for not only a quality product but also the support you get. If you call opti you get a real person on the line... a lot of people want and need that. I experienced there customer support and it was nothing less than stellar.

The fact that i have the opportunity to meet the marketing director when he is in SF is also an example of the opti white glove treatment.

They are really doing it right and i hope they can make it. They are on the front line, as an american manufacturer in a brutal war with the chinese. I hope they win. I for one am still willing to pay the price to buy american. It sickens me every time i send money to china.

 

[kfong]

I for one think all this comparison stuff is rather silly. Just like cars, there isn't one particular car that can meet everyone’s needs. I like the Opitibike in its execution and design. As for style, that is a personal taste. If I could afford one, it would be among my stable of ebikes. Not everyone needs the fastest, when I built my dream bike. It wasn’t to go fast, or even to ride on the streets. I wanted a bike to ride the trails. I was happy to go with 20mph, as long as I had the most torque as I could get. I looked at the big crystalyte motors everyone was harping about, but too me weight is very important in the equation.

The optibike was one of the first bikes to get me motivated in ebikes. I’ve read reviews on it and it makes a damn good mountain bike for the trails, this was from really good hardcore mountain bike riders, which too me says a lot. It meets a niche crowd needs. If you can’t afford it, dreaming about it doesn’t hurt, but whining about it doesn’t help.

 

[TylerDurden]

Indeed, most of the world would gladly throw money as a solution if they had it. Others may have an interest in finding solutions that offer more value for more users than supplying garage-trophies for the well-heeled. (But, we must keep the Hammacher-Schlemmer devotees supplied with merch that they can tell their friends "is the very best".)

No surprises here... No surprise that the junkyard-dogs chase fluffy, or that fluffy's breeder jumps amidst the pack to defend her AKC certification.

Optibike has no fears about a race to the top. They are there. Their biggest concern is the race to the bottom... of margin.

So to Spin and JRH and Kepler: who has the most to gain from the imaginary "chilling effect", as the proletarian mob cries ripoff... reluctance to enter the market can only help the established merchants... and any entrepreneur with one good eye can see where there is margin, there is room for competition.

Tesla and Optibike have chosen to enter the market at the top of the value-chain. A time-honored strategy that pays handsomely before the market evolves. But the achilles-heel of the top-down model is hubris: good luck getting into the mainstream of 20M units/yr without diluting your flagship's brand. Fortunately, Optibike is so niche, that the mainstream hasn't even heard of them... "poor-man's optibike" would be lost on the pedestrian.

I'd continue, but I am off to pick up my Rolls.

 

[Green Machine]

You see what i mean...

Wow thats the longest post i have ever seen tyler write...

Evilness personified. Electrified beast...i heard rumors of wicked things that happen in his deep basement "work shop" I heard he has got 2 guage cable running right from the power pole...no meter.

He is not a man he is like a e-demigod or e-devil or arc-angel or something to that effect...no one to tussle with in a eforum.

You wouldnt want to get him mad. i havent seen him mad...actually i would kind of like to see it.

Anyways guys i am up earlier than i have been in years...and excited...off to go meet craig.

Pray i dont get served court papers or get orange juice thrown on me. I hope tylers got my back in case i do.

Oh my god what should i wear...maybe they will offer me a job...it is tough times for a online poker player.

Oh forget about the suit...what should i ride?

Time to go down and sort through my stable of bitches...

 

[Kepler]

Indeed, most of the world would gladly throw money as a solution if they had it. Others may have an interest in finding solutions that offer more value for more users than supplying garage-trophies for the well-heeled. (But, we must keep the Hammacher-Schlemmer devotees supplied with merch that they can tell their friends "is the very best".)

No surprises here... No surprise that the junkyard-dogs chase fluffy, or that fluffy's breeder jumps amidst the pack to defend her AKC certification.

Optibike has no fears about a race to the top. They are there. Their biggest concern is the race to the bottom... of margin.

So to Spin and JRH and Kepler: who has the most to gain from the imaginary "chilling effect", as the proletarian mob cries ripoff... reluctance to enter the market can only help the established merchants... and any entrepreneur with one good eye can see where there is margin, there is room for competition.

Tesla and Optibike have chosen to enter the market at the top of the value-chain. A time-honored strategy that pays handsomely before the market evolves. But the achilles-heel of the top-down model is hubris: good luck getting into the mainstream of 20M units/yr without diluting your flagship's brand. Fortunately, Optibike is so niche, that the mainstream hasn't even heard of them... "poor-man's optibike" would be lost on the pedestrian.

I'd continue, but I am off to pick up my Rolls.

You write very eloquently TD I must admit I usually need to read your posts twice to fully undertand your point but english was never my strong subject

In Australia we have the same issues with manufacturing as you guys. Even more so in some ways with China, Malaysia, and Indonesia all relatively close by and all offering their labour at obscenely low rates. However, there is room for manufacturing here with sustainable margins with the right products.

Having some minor experience with small volume manufacture, I have learnt that running off to China to have parts made is not necessarily the answer especially when in comes to small volume. When taking into account quality control, the ability to comunicate directly, shipping, etc, local manufacture of certain parts is surprisingly cost effective. Of cause all this changes when you shift to 10s of thousands but for niche small volume business, local manufacture certainly works.

 

[Green Machine]

Ok ok ok...i am back home and alive...and no egg in my face It was what i would call an epic meeting...had an epic ride through downtown san francisco at 30mph to get there..but i guess that should be for another thread. I was running late cuz i got carried away posting here before the meeting...and had to make it all the way across SF in morning traffic in 20 minutes.

i got some really good information about opti. I will start with my impressions of craig and the opti company first...and come back later with technical information about "opti the bike" that i think some of you engineering types might find valuable. This way this post doesnt get too long.

Craig was actually way cooler than i thought...really nice guy.... He is one of us actually..i would like to say quickly that i was right in my guess that the leaders of opti have 40mph speed machines in their garages..and have had them way back when we were still riding zappies. They just cant release them to the public although they would like too. The liability is simply too great. It really really sucks ass what they are up against. A bunch of government regs and legal liabitlities of being sued etc that offshore products are able to bypass. I think there is a reason there is no commericaly availabe ebikes that have "insane" physics or methods or yellow tadpole like performance...and if you guys are thinking about developing such a product cuz u see a hole in the market, you will have the same issues....one bad accident can ruin your life instantly..one lipo fire etc. Opti has to pay huge liability insurance for every unit they sale just to cover their ass....and have all that legal mumbo jumbo that being an american company entails. The only other company i know offering a high performance turn key product is stealth...and i think there is a reason that thing is made in australia and then shipped here.

But let me tell you this guy craig really won me over as one of us..a true ebike enthusiast. They have been building and riding bikes a hell of a long time. They have paid their ebike dues. They are trying to make a business float paying 10 full time american employees who are depending on opti not to go under. They are being penalized by the american goverment for being an american company..and as i have said before are competing against the chinese who have no business ethics, or regulations restraining them, no respects for patents or intellectual property, no fear of being sued in chinese court. It is not a level playing field....and it makes me lose faith in our goverment and our future economy when i see companies like opti basically hung out to dry. Also there is the issue of consumers who are becoming more and more demanding for super low cost quality goods that simply cannnot be made in the US for as cheap as china. Those same consumers are bitching about how bad our economy and how much their house price is falling and wonder when its going to turn around...what i am realizing is its not..we are in a sinking spiral....i can see clearly how for a company like Opti...climbing to the top of pikes peeks is definatly not their biggest uphill battle.

Despite all this i am happy to report that opti is still doing well. They are selling more bikes than ever and that is with very little advertising in the worst economy ever selling a 12k bike. Like i said earlier there profit margin isnt as big as youd think it is...90 percent of that bike is made here in US so they are feeding many US suppliers...as well as putting food on the table of 10 american employees. Extremely noble these days i would say. They are very much an american sentimented company...they are only outsourcing parts they have to outsource cuz they dont exist here.

They are currently moving their headquarters to a 7500 store front on the main street in downtown boulder.

I have said again and again we should be rooting for these guys as an american manufacture company surviving...there is no reason for us to be in-fighting or cannibalizing each other since we are all in the same game. Opti started because Jim Turner, a pro moto-cross rider wanted a real performance electric vehicle to ride in the mountains of colorado...and went from building one prototype in his garage...hammered out in sheet metal endless sphere style...to an admirable american company.

Sorry to sound gushy but i was really impressed about meeting Craig and hearing the opti story. These guys seem really enthusiastic about what they are doing...and really enjoy riding there souped up rides. The guy reminded me of many endless sphere members who i have met....nothing bad to say about him really. I am hoping they make a suprise visit to one of our hill climbs with one of their bad ass prototypes...i am really hoping.

After the may 14th hill climb race here in SF...i am going to organize another hill climb as Craig suggested in one of his posts....From the top of twin peaks to the top of mount tam...thats like 35 miles..kind of like a cannonball run of ebike riding. I think that would be a great race actually. At the top of mount tam we can all kick back and have some beers....we will issue a challenge and i bet we might be able to get the optibike guys to show up with one of their bad ass garage bikes. Imagine like john lennon said we can all come together and ride as one....and drink beer.

 

[Alan B]

So your going to keep the Opti, then.

 

[Green Machine]

So your going to keep the Opti, then.

If they amped it up to 72 volts i would so i could make mincemeat of all these haters...and still warrantied it...but i dont think thats going to happen.

So things i learned about the actual bicyle today:

-They have run up to 1500 watts to the motor with no problems....but the bike wheelies very easily in the low gears.

-They have a dyno that they test motors on and run them non stop for weeks on end testing for failures and supposedly they hold up. That dyno is constantly running testing. The motors are supposedly pretty bullet proof. They havent had any planetary gear failures since switching to a high grade nylon for the gears.

-the bike has built in blue tooth capability and it can connect to an android app to give you a cycle analyst llike read out...the company can also use that capability for trouble diagnosis.

- The battery packs do supposedly hold up to 30,000 miles because they use a insulated honeycomb assembly like tesla to separate the cells to keep the inner cells in a pack from getting too warm.

-They plan to win the Pikes Peak challenge this year again...even if a stealth bomber shows up...they are showing up in force and dont plan to lose in their own back yard.

- They tested the shimano alfine 8 and found that it does not hold up at all to an electric drive as strong as the 850 watt...so that is why only two options are deraillers or rohloff.

- The shifting cables for the rohloff are actually threaded through the frame...(there is two of them) a nice touch i didnt realize before.

- The bike should go close to 30mph without pedaling..

Thats all i can think of now...

A lot i cant say because of NDA

Lets just say there's some talk in boulder of a new west coast test pilot on a new top secret bike. :wink: Gotta be loyal to my pit crew in the trenches.

I gotta be careful here and not squak my way out of a brilliant opportunity.

 

[Kepler]

Who cares about warranty If a part fails, replace it. As long as you had a good time in the process. When I started modifying my Bomber, I figured who cares if I blow a motor or a controller. Its just not a big deal to replace if I need to. So now I get to enjoy the bike just the way I want it to be.

 

[Alan B]

Sounds like a number of nice features. For me they are too noisy and too expensive. Also, I want to go 15-20 mph up steep 10-15 percent grades. Not sure if the Opti will do that. My 9C 6x10 is doing that. Plus I'm having a lot of fun building it. I might get to 2k$ cost including the new $600 bike, over time, so it doesn't seem even that expensive.

It is good that they are doing well, we need viable businesses in the US. I wish them the best.

If you do a ride from hilltop to hilltop, the logistics would seem to be a problem. Perhaps it would work better to start where parking is plentiful and ride some distance to the climb and then up some big hill. The return trip would not be hard or require much battery that way.

 

[recumpence]

I like John's comments earlier. For those of us who can build a killer bike, yes, the Opti can be out-done. But, for those who can't, save your pennies and anti-up for a complete bike like the Bomber or Opti.

Matt

 

[TylerDurden]

A lot i cant say because of NDA

Lets just say there's some talk in boulder of a new west coast test pilot on a new top secret bike. :wink: Gotta be loyal to my pit crew in the trenches.

I gotta be careful here and not squak my way out of a brilliant opportunity.

He got bought.

Wadda sooprize, Sgt. Carter.

 

[TylerDurden]

Sorry to sound gushy but i was really impressed about meeting Craig and hearing the opti story. These guys seem really enthusiastic about what they are doing...and really enjoy riding there souped up rides. The guy reminded me of many endless sphere members who i have met....nothing bad to say about him really. I am hoping they make a suprise visit to one of our hill climbs with one of their bad ass prototypes...i am really hoping.

After the may 14th hill climb race here in SF...i am going to organize another hill climb as Craig suggested in one of his posts....From the top of twin peaks to the top of mount tam...thats like 35 miles..kind of like a cannonball run of ebike riding. I think that would be a great race actually. At the top of mount tam we can all kick back and have some beers....we will issue a challenge and i bet we might be able to get the optibike guys to show up with one of their bad ass garage bikes. Imagine like john lennon said we can all come together and ride as one....and drink beer.

So, let's review: Team Opti supplies the critic/owners with the goods they use in competition, which are not what is described "in the literature"... the faustian bargain being the NDA.

With a nudge and a wink, the Opti remains an expensively cloaked e-moto posing as an ebike for the gentry. Everybody cheers and wraps themselves in Old-Glory.

It's the American Way.

 

[Green Machine]

Tyler your american right?

An evil one granted but still an american?

How bout trading a 48v 10ah 6.5lb lipo battery for pumping up my post count to 5000 so i can get one of those cool giga watts symbols? Separate deal..what would it take to make me a moderator so i could school these fools?...a complete bike?

Are you available for having lunch tomorrow (in a public place) on easter sunday cuz i suspect your the type who is not out hiding easter eggs etc.

You gotta secret bike you want me to test for you so i quit letting everyone in on your evilness?

Whatcha say? :wink:

message me tyler..we'll do this on the down low.

You got a link to one of your bike builds...i am as curious as hell on what your riding...

 

[TylerDurden]

Are you available for having lunch tomorrow (in a public place) on easter sunday cuz i suspect your the type who is not out hiding easter eggs etc.

You got a link to one of your bike builds...i am as curious as hell on what your riding...

Lunch sounds divine, but I dropped of my Lear when I picked up my Rolls. I'll have my people call your people when we're airborne again.

I have no running bike. The last one was eviscerated by a golden retriever. :lol: Been too busy to diddle with the others.

You kids have fun, though... play nice and stay safe.

 

[recumpence]

Are you available for having lunch tomorrow (in a public place) on easter sunday cuz i suspect your the type who is not out hiding easter eggs etc.

You got a link to one of your bike builds...i am as curious as hell on what your riding...

Lunch sounds divine, but I dropped of my Lear when I picked up my Rolls. I'll have my people call your people when we're airborne again.

I have no running bike. The last one was eviscerated by a golden retriever. :lol: Been too busy to diddle with the others.

You kids have fun, though... play nice and stay safe.

You must be an old man, TD. We youthful individuals prefer a red Enzo over a Rolls any day.

I gotta run and check the stock market before I meet with IBM about the big merger.......... :wink:

Matt

 

[TylerDurden]

Rolls was not a random choice, my good man.

 

[spinningmagnets]

Rolls was not a random choice

TD, are you a "trophy husband"?
Whenever I hear about a Rolls, I get a different picture than most. "Lawrence of Arabia" organized Bedouin guerilla attacks against the Germans and Turks in Palestine during WW-one. Most (in-effective) British officers wore proper uniforms, rode horses, spoke only english, and used cheap cars to save on their budget.

T. E. Lawrence wore the Arab garb, quickly learned to speak Arabic, used camels (which could cross the desert), and with some of his meager budget he bought Roll-Royces. He said the radiator held 8 gallons, and they were the only car that could stand up to the middle-eastern roads and survive (1914-18).

I gotta run and check the stock market

Perhaps buy some silver? wish I had bought some a year ago!

52 Wk Low / High___$ 16.73 / $44.31

 

[TylerDurden]

TD, are you a "trophy husband"?

Not yet... still working on the second part.

 

[GrayKard]

Tyler your american right?

An evil one granted but still an american?

How bout trading a 48v 10ah 6.5lb lipo battery for pumping up my post count to 5000 so i can get one of those cool giga watts symbols?

Here ya go, no charge, enjoy. :wink:

 

[Green Machine]

So the drama and prestige of owning an optibike is over for me.

I sold my optibike to a proud new owner who i know will use it more than I.

I am really happy i sold it...but sometimes sad to see my bike go. I have nothing that will get me to the top of slackers peek on may 14th now without smoking...so have to build a dd before then. The guy who bought it is really happy and he is more the optibike type..he showed up to my house from his marin home in a sporty convertible bmw.

He had not ridden a bike in a long time...and plans to use the opti to do his 10 mile commute at least 3 days a week. I feel i just did a service by handing off that bike.

He found me here on the thread and messaged me about selling...one of about 4 people who expressed serious interst in the bike. It was a cinch to sale...and i had many offers but was not up to the hassle of shipping a heavy ebike. I am proud i sold my opti for what i paid for it without any advertising.

Add to my list of pluses for the optibike: Great resale value. Its much easier to sell an opti for big bucks than any other bike.

Matt's yellow tadpole is for sale for 9k. TO me that is total bargain...but to non-ebiker and the uninformed...most would be more comfortable buying a safe and sane opti. To builders here on ES they would rather build their own ebike than pay 9k for someone elses.

THis new owner was made for the opti. He is uncomfortable at top speed on the opti..he wants a safe and sane cruiser...just getting back into bicycling. Also it is comforting for the new owner to know that he has support...because he has no idea about ebikes and how to service them etc. Now he has a 1 800 number he can call, who will walk him through any issues.

Hats off to opti...i really enjoyed the ride. I apologize to any and all of the ebikers i have offended along the way...i think we are on the same team as long as we ride an ebike.

I am super super happy that someone new bought an ebike and it will be one less car (one less bmw which is even better) on the road..and i think a new ebike fan has been created.

I think we can fix this world with baby steps...and believe it or not companies like opti are in the equation.

Again i would like to think craig and the opti team for doing their best to provide me and others an excellent american made ev friendly product.

If they ever offer a 40mph machine...maybe i will buy one and try again.

Thanks Opti for the memories.....now i am cocked and loaded with $$$ in my pocket once again.

Now for my new dream build...a 4 wheel, matt driven, astro flight powered, 47mph off road machine monster....no build thread here..this is my top secret weapon...see you at the top of the mountain chumps.