Phoenix Rising: P1

[Kingfish]

Amazing amount of wire in these ebikes!

How did you handle the balance leads? Any connections at that level?

You don’t know the half of it :wink:

Except for the Triangle, I can get to any pack fairly quickly for balancing. However the Triangle is altogether another problem because it is fasten down by several tedious layers (and takes about ½ hour to load/unload). It requires a BMS in situ. I am not completely satisfied with my options and have been strongly thinking about what my next project shall be… I think we need to address this disparity good and proper: A self-balancing powerful management system.

During testing I was really taken aback by the large difference my Triangle Pack would see between cells – up to 0.7 volts! It leads me to suspect that small resistances, perhaps in the “collectors” wiring is instigating the disparity, but it really does hamstring Pack capacity and obviously damaging my assets.

A bit chilly this morning. I say - good weather for riding!

Need more coffee, KF
PS - More in a bit... <slurp!>

 

[Kingfish]

Controller Signal Harness Redesigned
This was a call to action and waiting for repair. When I first built the ebike I had an idea to co-locate the controllers at the rear in a Master-Slave arraignment. The problem was that I had wires passing through the linkage of the rear suspension – an incredibly dynamic area filled with motion and grime. Once it was deployed, I never cared much for it and it seemed like I had to frequently hack into it because of pesky issues, like no throttle on the RH controller, or missing Regen, or no Cruise.

Once I started down the path of resolving –EBS to GND problem good and proper, I saw the writing on the wall and spent a good deal of time copying it down and refining what I needed to accomplish. Then the search for parts began – another long saga (I’ll spare you). It was just a “prototype” mess that I created… and wanted to get away from and clean up the ridiculous bundle wires coming out of the controllers.

Corrected some issues and added features.

I didn’t like the Master-Slave arrangement cos I couldn’t debug the motors with the opposite controller without a special cable. I knew the key to reducing wires was to complete eliminate GND from the Controller to the Controls, and instead just pull a separate large GND wire up to the handlebar for the sink – which is going to work very well now that I’ve updated the Battery Harness. Most of the GND wires were already removed – I just took it one step farther.

Next, I had to settle on either a 8- or 9-pin connector. Molex is bulky, old-school. I sourced an 8-pin PCI Express extension cable (comes with M/F!) – the only problem was that it was only a foot long which meant splicing. <grumbles> For Signal Cable, I couldn’t find 8-conductor, so I used two 4-conductor 18-AWG wire. Now I have to tell you – that has to be the smallest 18-AWG I have ever seen and was a PITA to strip; I should have just gone to 16-AWG.

Document everything for reference; very important to keep from making errors during asembly.

I took both controllers and ripped out Throttle, 3-Way, Cruise, -EBS, and Vcc_L, then replaced with the PCI Express wires which were slightly larger than stock… a little difficult to thread into the through-holes of the PCB. The final touches included using the Nylon-Braid Expando Cable Sleeves which neatly hid the wiring. Now each controller is reduced to five wire assemblies: Battery (10-AWG EC5 and sleeved), Halls (USB Mini-B), Signals (8-Pin PCI Express and sleeved), CA (unprotected), and Programming (also unprotected). Both controllers are now – more or less essentially equal.

At the other end is the Dashboard: The convergence of instruments and controls and accessories. All flimsy wiring was removed and upgraded with better quality. The Dash actually suffered very little due to the protection provided by the front fairing, but it was still a rat’s nest. After rework… well, it’s still busy – but able to take a lot more abuse, particularly the Ebrake. I went through everything - even the Black Box, and lifted out part that didn’t work, shortened wires, beefed and padded protection – that sort of stuff. Also decided to add both types of Throttle connectors so I wouldn’t have to kludge something together in the field in case of failure.

My forte is Design and not Production, so I'd check off each small task as I went and kept the focus all the way to the end.

All of the related diagrams helped keep track of ideas and progress, and if something didn’t work – the docs were updated. I kept a daily journal/notebook that relied on manual technology: I could take it with me to the pub and enjoy a beer doodling out solutions. Except for the occasional leaky pen… nothing beats good ol’ manual technology for illustration. :wink:

I spent days assembling the harness, then hanging, then fastening it down. Before I began I had stocked up on Nylon zip ties; pity they can’t be recycled. Tedious work, but the outcome is greatly organized, and I’ve eliminated a source of several problems.

The most important diagram of the entire effort; all schematics lead to physicality. Apologies for the size; link to ful image here.

Weather Channel says it up to 52*F. I need an hour to finish prepping the bike. More in a bit.
~KF

 

[thickhead]

Thanks, Kingfish, for the detailed design/build info. The diagrams are great! This is a very timely update, since I am learning/thinking about what I want to do with my wiring between now and spring, and I really have little knowledge about electrical power system design and fabrication.

My situation is much simpler than yours (one motor, two battery packs, each with BMS), but for my commuter/hauling bike the goal is to have as close to perfect reliability as I can get. My "research project" is aimed at maximizing the amount of time I can comfortably depend on my bike as a car replacement (I'm in central PA, so I have the steep grades and weather to contend with). I already know what I have is not adequate, since even in dry weather I'm having intermittent contact issues with the wiring (particularly with the Hall and throttle connections to the controller, for some reason). So, much as in your case my engineering focus is on reliability/maintainability. I have been taking as inspiration your bikes (from P0 on) and telektik's 2WD YM.

Couple quick questions:

• You mention a hydraulic swager--what tool did you use? A quick googling comes up with some pretty pricey stuff. Maybe I'll have to get one for my lab.
• Are your harnesses weatherproof (well, weatherized) as is, or are they protected by your HDPE fairings? I'm awaiting HDPE sheeting that I'll use for weatherizing my Xtracycle cargo bags and for some fairing experimentation. I'm also thinking about using it for protecting the controller etc. I don't think I am ready to consider running the harness through the frame tubing... yet.

 

[Kingfish]

Hi TH

Swager: Good thread to read is Mechanical Crimping Large Gauge Wiring Harnesses. For my part, I came in late to the party. I puchased one off of eBay that can be had at Harbor Freight, but after I got the tool I realized the shortcoming of it right away. I think it's worth getting one that Harold in CR suggests which actually buckles the material correctly instead of flattening. Also, as long as yer paying for the tool - might as well have one that can go up to 000 cos if you ever want to build an eMotocycle or EV, plain ol' "0" ain't gonna be large enough :wink:

Weatherproof: Nothing is weatherproof. Not motors, not controllers, not connectors... although my beer belly is weatherproof. Best we can hope for is weather-resistant. The outer HDPE shell works very well to repel rain from the battery bag. The bag is marginally protected by weave and by Sno-Seal, but it only stops light moisture & fog; a driving rain will soak it, hence the HDPE + Marine Vinyl layer. Learned that the hard way; thankfully no shorts. The rubber interfaces where wires pass through at the controllers is problematic, and the larger wires (and USB cable) really tear it up. After assembly I buttered it all up with black Urethane sealant. I don't like Silicone cos it's hydroscopic. The Body man that I used for my truck gave me the lowdown on Urethane and showed me the very graphic differences, and I've been a die-hard convert ever since. Urethane cures to touchable within two hours, and in 24 it's solid enough to carve - if layered correctly.

For shielding cable runs, I like the Expando sheath for all the reasons I stated. The wires can still move within the conduit and I like that around the steering where bunches have to be secured in place - and yet be able to move to keep from breaking. Plus - I just like the look of black webbing 8)

Best, KF

 

[Kingfish]

Quick note:
Battery pack mounted/strapped down; moving on to fairings.

Decided to take the opportunity to test each wheel one more time before covering up the wiring. I disabled/isolated each controller by disconnecting the PCI connector. Spun the wheel up to WOT, then selected Ebrake: Both controllers & motors are seeing Ebrake! So that’s one good bit of news right off the mark. The concept of providing strong GND return works

OK, back to assembly, KF

 

[thickhead]

Thanks, Kingfish, for the thread link and suggestions.

 

[Alan B]

Quick note:
Battery pack mounted/strapped down; moving on to fairings.

Decided to take the opportunity to test each wheel one more time before covering up the wiring. I disabled/isolated each controller by disconnecting the PCI connector. Spun the wheel up to WOT, then selected Ebrake: Both controllers & motors are seeing Ebrake! So that’s one good bit of news right off the mark. The concept of providing strong GND return works

OK, back to assembly, KF

Hopefully it will keep working even with big current flowing. Ebrakes are easy to opto-isolate anyway. Differential amps for the throttle might still be needed, but the brake signals are larger and less likely to be problematic.

 

[Kingfish]

Understood.

UPDATE

OK, at about 1:15 PM PST I mounted the P1-Mark II (or whatever) EBike. It's downhill from where I live; tested throttle lightly - good. Regen'd to the bottom with both controllers pulling 70-80W (I took it easy). Once at the bottom, I set my 3-WAY to Medium (86%) and raced to the top; front felt like it wanted to leap into the air!

Rounded the loop and regen’d hard to the bottom. All good. Waited for traffic to clear and bolted out down the road a mile to the next light where I could make my speed run. Checked MaxS and it was 35-36 mph (CAs differ slightly); this is very good and about equals what I had before.

Set 3-WAY to High (120%) and waited for traffic to clear. Then I hit it hard: I caught up with traffic and was about to pass when I reached the point to where I was satisfied my legs couldn’t take me faster and backed off; right turn Clyde onto my hill and bolted to the top WOT. Fricken awesome! Checked MaxS…

Lady & Gentlemen, I have a new personal level ground speed record: 47.1-47.4 mph (CAs differ slightly); that’s the fastest I’ve ever been on an eelectric, and less than 1 mph slower than my fastest ever on a bicycle (going downhill). I yam duly impressed! I’d wager it has more to do with battery power than anything else. I’m tempted to remove the APPs and go with bullets to remove the last skinny link in the chain.

So, Ebrake works on both, 3-Way works (all tested), Throttle obviously works. I haven’t tested Cruise yet. And on top of that – I’m winded and sweaty. :lol:

Well, with the first order of business out of the way I need to bolt to the Electronics Supply and fetch some resistors for the Progressive Brake/Regen Prototype. I have more pictures to post – including the one of the CAs MaxS, and shall get to that later this evening.

Gee, I wonder if I up the amps if I could make it into the 50-mph Club?

Like the wind, KF

 

[grindz145]

nice! dual 9Cs ftw.

 

[Alan B]

Series up another 5S pack for your speed run, amps alone won't likely make it to 50.

 

[Kingfish]

End of a great day!

Wow! The weather was crisp and mildly warm; I overdressed as usual and ended up peeling off a layer. At the top of the SR-520 hill a fellow cyclist caught up and we shot the breeze about electric bikes for a good long time. Made it to Vetco Electronics just as they were closing so I only had time to get the voltage divider resistors to knock 12V down to 5V for the Prototype, and 3’ of split-sleeve tubing to cover up the CA & Programming cables.

Then I stopped to eat at a place I’ve always seen from the road; last Friday over beers at Malt & Vine we got to talking about the best burger joints in town and BurgerMaster came up. So there’s where I went, except it’s old-style where they bring the food out to you and your car-load of pals. I’m on a bike, but there was a bench under the trees near the lot and I camped there and ate a ChickenMaster with the works and greasy onion rings. I can only eat onion rings like twice a year … and after the 3rd one… uhg. There was a raven watching me; I tossed it a bit of my bunn, and another showed up. OK, he gets a nibble too… and another shows up. Right, so I toss one to her… and another shows up. Then one walks over a bit closer and is pecking the wood like it’s pretending to eat – looking at me, so – I toss it a nibble… and another shows up. Then one sharpens his beak back and forth, and back and forth – and looking at me, so I toss him a nibble… and another shows up. It’s a party of ravens! I ran out of bunn but I had lots of onion rings. Now I’ve got ravens on the ground, ravens in the trees perched high and some perched low. One is perched directly above me, and I told him “Don’t you poop on me!” It was pretty cool cos none did. Not quite Hitchcock’s Birds, but still amusing. Boy did they fight over my space when I left!

So far the bike performed flawlessly and I was just thinking that on the circuitous way home when I noticed a high-pitched whine. Stopped at REI and picked up some more rope-clasps which I like to use for the fairings; one can never have enough clasps. At REI I figured out that it was the disc brakes that were singing, and not something worse – like motor bearings. My wheel-builder left REI last summer and he’s over at another local favorite bike shop, so I popped in there introduced myself (seems like high turnover in the bike world) and discovered my pal is on vacation for another week. Cool – he’s still there. I’m going to put the bike in for a tune-up: Inspect/replace brake pads, true discs, adjust the dishing on the RH so I have symmetrical clearance, and adjust my shifters. One hour with The Guy can do more than I can in eight.

Beyond the singing, I think it was as good of a day as one could possibly hope for a significant update. I am very pleased.

Here are some pictures of the latest ebike:

Last night just before it got dark I rolled it out to capture it before I put the batteries and fairing on. Kinda hard to see but the cabling is much better organized.

This is a close-up of the Dash: Unified CAs and Bar-Ends are the biggest changes.

Today I finished up the fairing work and rolled the ebike out for a vanity shot before the first ride around 1 PM. You know, I’m not one of those guys that has sexy-looking girlfriends hanging around to drape over my ride like a Vanna, but… I’ve got Bert Grant, and best of all – He’s Scottish and doesn’t complain one wit about wearing a skirt and showing some leg. So there it is, my finished Ride with the fairing, and Bert Grant holding one of my favorite beers of all time! What could be better? (other than wishing the brewery still existed).

About 10 minutes after the Bert Grant shot was taken, I set a new personal land speed record for level ground on the main road heading out of Redmond. The top CA is the FH, and the bottom – RH.

I have double-checked my records, and at no time have I ever gone this fast on an electric bike. Gawd I felt goosey afterwards! The bike can take more. Alan B, I think that I’ll try amps first cos I am so close… and I’m not pushing these motors very hard. If that doesn’t work, then we’ll do the 20S boogie.

I feel like a beer. Time for a walk.
Cheers to all good days, KF 8)

 

[Kingfish]

Specs for the first ride:
Battery @ 62.1V; MaxS was about 47.25 mph. Total distance was 21 miles.

Today I put on another 16 miles. Tested Cruise and the new Bar-Ends, and both worked out exceptional well. I appreciate the bar-ends so much more than the aerobars; it just makes sense.

Overall the bike performed like a champ; definitely gustier and can keep up well with commuter traffic so long as we don’t go faster than 36 mph. I could use the high-current mod to keep up - but that chews up the pack too fast. The normal current settings are 18A Battery/45A Phase for FH, and 22A Battery/56A Phase on the RH, and then I run the “Medium” level of the 3-Way at 86%. The bike has plenty of power at that setting! Still, I can think of a couple more of improvements to squeak me into the 50 mph Club.

Back to work, KF

 

[Kingfish]

Pictorial on how I modify my Controllers

I’ve been asked how I modified my controllers to support 2WD. Oringally I had a Master-Slave arrangement which worked well-enough for the Road Trip in 2011. Now that I’ve had time to go through and reevaluate the systems I have decided to remove the uniqueness between the two, and apply another round of simplification. Below is my present system as of September 2012, and so far it has been flawless in operation; the ebike answers all bells without hesitation.

1. Start with a good controller.

This is the 12-FET 4110 MOSFET Extreme Modder Controller LYEN Edition (MII) that retails for $129. Let's see what's inside...

Front, stock.

Back, stock.

2. At this point I go through and begin removing components and wires in preparation for upgrade.

• Molex Connectors on Power, GND & Vcc_L are removed.
• All dashboard control wires and connectors are removed.
• Bullet Connectors of Phase wires are cut off.
• Hall Effect Signal wires and Power/GND are removed.
• The three largest Caps are removed.
• The solder and thin wires from the beefed traces on the backside are removed.

3. The unit on the bottom is partly modified: Removed +Vbatt & GND wires, Throttle, Cruise, 3-Way, Ebrake, & Vcc_L wires. It is going to replace the unit above that was also highly modified for the 2011 road trip (older 2WD version that I had "slaved").

• All through-holes are cleaned-up to allow new larger wires.
• Power & GND through-holes require extra reaming to accept 10-AWG.
• Traces on backside are beefed with 10-AWG stranded wire and soldered up good and fat.
• Added replacement caps.
• Soldered in USB Mini-B wires into the Halls/signal pads. Added zip-tie to backside of cable as a strain relief to prevent pull-through.
• Pulled all 8 wired of the PCI Express extension through, and soldered in 7 or them to the appropriate pads. The spare is tied off for future use.
• Pulled in 10-AWG for Power & GND and soldered into place.
• The backside of the board is then "leveled"; I trim leads or otherwise file down high points that threaten to short the board to the casing.
• The PCB is then cleaned of flux, and is inspected for continuity and shorts. Any issues are corrected.
• Tape off the backside for extra protection, and reassemble the unit for smoke-testing.
• Attach EC5 connectors to Power & GND.
• Attach 45A APP connectors to Phase wires.

4. Upgrade completed. Front.

Upgrade completed. Back.

5. The unit is ready for smoke-testing: We check power and controls before the motors are hooked up. Then follows Freewheel spin with each controller individually. Then ultimately - the test drive. This unit had a perfect first ride which is rare, but we'll take it as a compliment :wink:

The List of Mods:

• +VBatt & GND now 10-AWG, and uses EC5 connector.
• Halls signals replaced with USB Mini-B cable & connector.
• Throttle, Cruise, 3-Way, Ebrake and Vcc_L unified into a PCI Express 8-Pin Extension Cable. This greatly reduced the clutter coming out of the board. Note that GND is not included; I pulled Battery GND up to the handlebars for a direct return. The spare pin will be used for the UV signal when I hook up the Progressive Brake/Regen Prototype.
• The three large Chengx caps were replaced with high-quality low ESR caps (and having a known spec sheet).
• Traces beefed up on backside using 10-AWG wire.

Notes:

• The Phase wiring stayed as OEM 12-AWG because that’s the size I have going through the hub motor and I didn’t see much of an advantage to upgrade them. We are considering upgrading the APP connectors to either the 4mm or the 5mm bullet connectors for increased capacity.
• The two controllers are now identical; no Master-Slave. The only difference is that the FH controller does have much longer phase/Halls wiring, although it is possible to chop it short and just hardwire the FH so it extends back to the controller, and if so then either controller could act as Front or Rear – so long as I flashed them accordingly. Seems like a lot of work though. For now – KISS.
• FH Controller is presently set for 18A Battery/45A Phase, and the RH Controller is set for 22A Battery/56A Phase.

Enjoy, KF

 

[Kingfish]

Updates for the Month of October

Built new body fairing components
Here's the new and improved version of good ol' Prototype #1.

New Front Fairing – was the Bee Head style, is now the SvS version… that’s “Spy vs. Spy” illustrated by Sergio Aragones. At least – that’s what it reminds me of.

Read a lot of these when I was a kid...

Rather pointy there... I decided to redo the front after nearly making the 50-MPH Club. In my mind, I'm only 3 mph short - so if I improve the aero... you get the idea :wink:

The Dash is now very well protected.

Sliding Controller Armor – this is a small plate of HDPE that completely covers the wires exiting the controllers and it fastened to the frame. The “plates” slide independently inside the removable side plate, and adds both security and aero to the bike.

Center, Rear Cowling & Side plates – Normally I ride without panniers, so I decided to cover up the lossy rear rack for better aero. The side plates are made of white HDPE for better visibility at night.

All cleaned up nice and neat.

New Reflective Tape – on order; the original tape is worn out, torn off in places, and just plain dirty. The new white areas will be striped.

Altogether, the ebike is still has a very slim profile.

Progressive Brake/Regen Prototype:
This is an ongoing project with the singular goal of creating a variable ebraking experience in the same manner as mechanical braking.

Hi-Powered LED Flashlights rework:
The original idea was to upgrade them from 5-Way to Single-Click, but that was a bust after receiving parts from DinoDirect. During the Front Fairing reconstruction I took the lights apart, cleaned them up a bit, lengthened the wires, and increased the pressure on the electrical contacts – all of which has improved the illumination quality. 8)

Turn Signal LED Indicator:
Really a brain-dead solution to alert me when I have left the indicator on after completing a turn. Took the switch housing apart and soldered in two 1N4007 Diodes to a 12V Yellow LED. Copy of the circuit is below. Works like a champ.

Wired up.

Block Diagram of modified control.

Replaced Phase Wire Connectors:
Replaced the APP connectors from the Controller to the Motor with HXT 4mm Barrel Connectors which appear to have about twice the current-carrying capacity. Combined with the new Battery Harness, I no longer see voltage sags, and in fact – the FH really wants to gallop forward; it’s quite the improvement!

That’s it for now. There’s more to do – but I also have to work for a living.
Safe Travels & Enjoy, KF :wink:

 

[The Stig]

I wonder how much the unsprung weight affects the handling... have you taken this thing off road much?
I'm considering building my first mid-drive for suspension performance and off road handling...

 

[Kingfish]

I wonder how much the unsprung weight affects the handling... have you taken this thing off road much?
I'm considering building my first mid-drive for suspension performance and off road handling...

Understood
When deciding to purchase the frame, I called the manufacturer and they told me the bike could easily handle a 250 lbs. rider. I weight 150 lbs. wet, and figure the motors weigh 20 lbs. each. Normally, I ride with the commuter battery pack which weighs about 24 lbs. Add that up plus wiring and controllers… say another 5 lbs. and I’m still below the designed weight for the frame. That said, the bike does handle differently when loaded down for bear and going cross-country with trailer in tow. Small funny: After returning from the 2011 trek with bike converted back to commuter, I nearly wreaked it in the first minute cos I had become accustomed to the heavy weight and feather-touch control, and instead it was more like bronking buck hellion ready to tear arse with so much power – it damn near left my hands!

When weighted down, tires and shocks get more pressure to offset sag; Tires are inflated max pressure (60-65 psi), whilst front and rear shocks only need another 20-25 psi. Obviously when the bike is unladed the suspension will be far too stiff. Really what I worry about is nose-diving or bottoming-out when braking under load, while higher pressure in the tires means they’ll roll easier. During commuting, I don’t need all of this; the bike is “fly” when compared to touring; it’s so nimble and quick – I honestly have to be careful not to accelerate too quickly and spin the front wheel.

Off-Road:
I’m not terribly keen about taking THIS bike off road; it’s built for urban assault and cross-country over paved roads. That said, we have a remote summer place up in the Sierras and the road going in the last 5 miles is rough as a cob; about once a decade the Forest Service levels the ruts for better fire access. That is the only place where I must go off-road with the bike (discounting urban bike trails). Because I’ve got the trailer in tow, it is much more challenging to keep a decent speed to maintain balance, and yet not get beat to death, or driven off the path by rocky cobbles the size of baseballs.

During Commuting, the most “off-road” this bike normally sees are the paved bike trails. Again, I voice my consternation about taking it to dirt because of the tremendous investment in time and money to create the best possible 2WD electric experience. To summarize, I have pushed this bike nearly as far as it can go with the intention of what I use it for: Commuting & Cross-Country. If I wanted an Enduro – a legal hybrid of Motocycle and Motocross with distinctly more power, I’d have to change the design from the ground up:

• Different or custom-built frame
• Upgrade to light motorcycle shocks
• Motorcycle/Moped/Motocross tires and rims
• Minimum 150mm adjustable horizontal dropouts for the rear
• I’d still want 2WD, however…
• CroMotor on the RH is very appealing, and having a single-speed freewheel with a triple chainring in the front so you get three speeds (in reality, I never shift down unless I’m out of power).
• Custom fenders; the rear is funky with the suspension and I have a 3-piece fender that is partially effective. It’s been an ongoing source of frustration.
• Phatty noodle wiring all around; let the bike “breathe” with ample current. No sags, no hesitations, all bat-out-of-hell!
• Reconfigure the battery pack to be made of assemblies of paralleled batteries for simplified BMS execution, and make it so I can hot-swap in the field without major disassembly.
• Again, a custom frame can facilitate hard points for mounting body fairing and hardware.
• Use common components for accessories: Hydraulic brakes, bearings, seals, dash controls…
• Liquid-cool the controllers, possibly even the motors via black-body (and not oil in motor which creates drag).
• Source studded tires for winter. Now that’s a challenge!

Surprisingly, this wish list is very close to what I want to build next, although if wishes were horses that beggars could ride – I’d have custom motors and sino controllers too. :wink:

Hmmm, I may have drifted from the initial request: Stig, did I answer the question? :lol:

Cheers, KF

 

[The Stig]

Yeah so your off road experience on that forest road was not very good, I'm guessing the trailer made a big difference...

But you think the unsprung weight of your hubbies, front or back, don't affect ride/handling significantly? seeing as your ultimate off road build wouldn't be mid drive... but an even heavier rear hub motor.
I definitely agree with you on the 2wd thing. If could find an easy and powerful battery my next build would be a 2wd...

 

[Kingfish]

Mid Drive verses Hub, depending on which models we chose, either could be heavier than the other. I think we have to define the goals first, then build to suit (at least in theory).

The next bike I build will begin with 100 lbs. of batteries cos it is designed for road speeds. I don’t have a big need for Enduro; I live in the urban area and I think about migrating out of the margins and into traffic full-fledged. However – the Enduro study is really a close cousin to what I want next, so it’s enjoyable to compare.

If we’re talking “bicycle” off-road, it’s got to be lightweight. My bike can carry 30 batteries before it begins to shirk, and I can still pour another 12-18 on top before the handling becomes challenging; over that amount and it is problematic. That’s where the trailer comes in cos it can easily accept another 30 batteries. :wink:

When the bike it loaded up, I try to keep most of the weight over the triangle for better handling. The rear suspension gets squirrely with any weight, however there’s a wide band of acceptance before it becomes unmanageable.

If we’re going with a motocycle/motocross bike, then provision for a frame that can handle at a minimum 250cc ICE cos these bikes begin with an unloaded weight of 450 lbs. and that’s right where we want to be for motors and batteries. If we use hubs, then the whole engine cavity is available to accept a modular battery pack. However a mid-drive eats up a lot of good real estate, but then your wheels are lighter and more responsive. How to optimize? It depends again upon the goals: Do we want distance, long mountain climbing, racer, what’s it gonna be?

The way that I look at a bike frame is “how much can I pack on it?” – and the 250cc model says I can place 200-300 lbs. before I’d need a trailer. Now the thing about motorbikes is that we have to answer the question: “Are we going to pedal?” If we do, two options are ‘pedal with gears’, or ‘pedal to generator’. The argument against pedaling is that we’re only adding about 200 watts/hour and it’s a lot of complexity for little gain. On a bicycle it makes sense, but on a motorbike is does not. That’s weight we can save. When I was going cross-country, the weight of the batteries began to work against me; I could throw more batteries onto system, but in the city it was killing performance. Here’s an example:

This bike, P1 – loaded up with 18 batteries that weigh about 24 lbs. can get me from Redmond to Seattle and back on one charge, about 46 miles round trip, and takes 70 minutes each way. The route is a combination of city streets and bike paths through dense urban traffic. Compare that to having 78 batteries for the road trip, and I was constrained to about 170 miles distance (I don’t know the limit for 2011 cos I never ran out of power). Doing the math:

• 46/18 = 2.55 miles/battery when commuting.
  170/78 = 2.18 miles/battery when touring.

When I commute, I’m only carrying the clothes on my back when I change out of riding gear, and a laptop, maybe 12 lbs. Granted – it’s likely I’m going close to WOT on many parts of the journey. When touring, it was well over 50 lbs. of gear: tools, parts, multiple changes of clothes, food and water, my charger, plus the weight of the trailer (not counted) – and resistance. I am extremely miserly when touring, particularly with headwind, and I think nothing of dropping my speed and pedaling more to help the motor. Still, the weight of the batteries begins to be part of the problem when you get over 50 lbs.

When we consider alternatives such as motorbikes, we have to accept the evil of battery weight, and overcompensate by having powerful motors. Two works better than one on a hill! If I lived in Flatland USA, mid drive or single hub motor would be fine. I live in Seattle, and there are two mountain ranges between me and my family, so I’m going to with 2WD for any weather and all terrain (caveat that it’s primary goal is for pavement). I already know and accept the next bike will go on average 55 mph and likely will consume 3 to 4X the amount of power I was using to go 30 mph, plus I’m not pedaling. Got to design a bike to suit the needs of the goals. For that, my money is on a frame that can hold a 250cc ICE at the very least, and have an unladed distance of 150 miles minimum whilst doing 55 mph at STP – the Minimum Bar for success.

Anyways – that’s a part of the dream for the electric ride. One day at time.

Do you have a build thread started? We could go there and ponder options 8)

Cheers, KF

 

[The Stig]

I should start a build thread but I don't know what I'm building

Sounds like your building a motorcycle of the future... No production emoto gets the range your talking!

More on this later...

 

[Kingfish]

Status as of Past Winter

Haven’t written a status since November 2012. Here’s what’s changed...

Solving the Variable Ebrake-Throttle Problem
A tremendous amount of effort went into understanding how we could affect the ebrake experience. In terms of hardware, I built two prototype boards and burnt up two or three controllers by varying either R12 or the resistance over the Shunt Sense Circuit in real-time. The end result was that the controller senses the value once at boot, or once during a braking event – thus proving beyond a shadow of doubt that there is no way to change the value dynamically. Well… we kinda knew there were limitations to these controllers. Time to move on to other projects.

Mounted winter tires

• Schwalbe Ice Spiker Pro onto 26” Front
  Panaracer Fire FR (Black-walled) on the Rear.

Both tires are about 2.4 inches wide. Unfortunately we had only one day where snow landed – about an inch, though it didn’t stick for long. There were a few days though where we had some minor ice – and these tires worked just fine. I noticed a 20% drop in range on my commuter pack, and I equate that to both tires and cold weather. Handling with studs/knobbies is a bit more cautious because you can’t quite take curves as tight as I could with Hookworms. These tires are noticeably louder; it’s fun to see people react to studded tires on a bicycle!

Upgraded Saddle Bag Battery Pack
The saddle bags are TIMBUK2 Front Cargo Bags that I organized so they could drape over the Commuter Pack. Each holds 15S2P, having a special “collector” wire that used to plug into the old Main Battery Harness. The said harness was reworked last summer, and as part of that process I intentionally stubbed out two EC5 connectors that reach clear up to the front dash for convenience. The Saddle Bag upgrade replaced the collector wiring from 10-AWG to 8-AWG and instead of APP, it’s EC5. Now I can easily add another 20 Ah capacity to the ebike in about 5 minutes instead of tearing down the commuter bag and rebuilding… saving about an hour of time.

P1 on April 3rd, 2013 with winter tires and saddle bags. The estimated range with Commuter and Saddle Bags (15S10P) is about 83 Seattle miles. Interestingly, the capacity is more than enough to go over 100 miles as a FWD, but then it really lags on hill climbs.

Created a webpage dedicated to my 2WD
The Signature of our ES posts is so limiting. Decided to create a custom space where I could list my knowledge, discoveries, contributions, and adventures in one place – The 2WD Garden Wall.

DIY: My Incredibly Ghetto Wheel Balancing Rim & Disc Brake Rotor Truing System
I’m cheap. Needed something to hold the wheels in suspension so as to correct the rim dishing and disc brake alignment.

EBike Apparel: Jackets Trousers Gloves etc.
My winter trousers, jacket, and gloves no longer provide protection against wet. After some searching I tried motorcycle garb, but was only satisfied with the PDX Hi-Viz Rain Jacket by Icon. Winter is over, but the search continues for the other two items.

Integrated Battery Maintenance
Investigated another way for me to balance the Commuter Pack w/o having to tear it down to examine it – which takes about an hour. Never did quite commit to adding the Balance Taps like I wanted; I still do though… and the effort is still alive albeit incrementally.

Hub-Cover Bearing Inspection for Dummies
Self-explanatory.

Investigated Plastic Deformation of HDPE
No pictures worth showing, though the study proved compelling for creating better-fitting fairings. If I had room I’d like to build a low-powered well-vented oven for making prototypes.

Controller Model # & Program
Created a Survey to help resolve a few unknowns regarding another project directly below…

Handheld Serial Programming: USB or Wireless
I want to be able to flash my controller from my Android. Can’t do it right now, but the developer of XPD wrote his solution in Python and made it available through Open Source. I adapted his code over to CSharp/WPF/.NET and was successful at flashing both the EB2xx and EB3xx series controllers in my possession. The next step is to port this over to a multiplatform language such as Mono. In addition, it was discovered that Mobile devices do not normally have access to the USB Port, however we could use Bluetooth (BT) technology. I spend a good week understanding that process and wrote up a guide for that below. This project is still ongoing. 8)

Adding Serial BT to Windows for Dummies
Comprehensive guide for those that wish to use BT instead of USB Serial for flashing their controllers. Using XPD from my Desktop I was able configure my EB312 through the BT module that was powered by a simple 9V battery.

That’s pretty much where were at entering into Spring. I couldn’t do a cross-country trek last year due to the quadriceps tendonitis, however the knee is much stronger this year and I am hoping to get some good journeys in soon.

Safe Travels, KF

 

[-dg]

I want to be able to flash my controller from my Android. Can’t do it right now, but the developer of XPD wrote his solution in Python and made it available through Open Source. I adapted his code over to CSharp/WPF/.NET and was successful at flashing both the EB2xx and EB3xx series controllers in my possession. The next step is to port this over to a multiplatform language such as Mono.

Buh, buh, but, Python is a multi-platform language. Seriously.

 

[Kingfish]

• I don't want to program in Python.
• I want to use a language and a development environment that I know well.
• Once the goal is achieved, I will have a good understanding how to apply the KB to other devices & unify technology.

Day job keeps me from completing this task in a timely manner, however at present I can use BT over Serial to remotely flash the controller wirelessly

There's more work to do though. <nods>

Cheers, KF

 

[Kingfish]

FIVE THOUSAND Miles on 2WD!

Updating my signature, today I noticed that I have driven over 5,000 miles on this ebike as a 2WD. 8)

I’ve been on business travel quite a bit the last 6 months, and that has greatly arrested my efforts on advancing my hobbies. The last trip back I came home on December 2nd with the threat of snow looming, so the next day I had to swap the summer tires to winter studs. For the next week or 10 days the weather dropped down well below freezing and I honestly have to say that riding to work in 22°Fn sucks no matter how layers you’re wearing, and I have to add that was the coldest day for me on any bike. Didn’t see anyone else riding that day… cowards! It never did snow that week; just got bone dry cold. Not even a chance for black ice to form.

The bike looks pretty much like the image below sans the saddle bags. The weight difference is very noticeable because the front lifts on acceleration and causes more slip in traction. Still – it’s an eye-catcher with those knobby studs.

There’s not much more to say. I’ve been really busy with work, learning a lot of useful stuff that can be directly applied to ebikes – I don’t mind that at all.

After the dry chill it warmed back up to middle 40s during the day and low 30s at night. Still waiting for a descent snow; not some namby pamby dusting… we want a dumper, something on the order of 6 inches… or more! You hear me upstairs? I’m daring you to thundersnow upon my humble hamlet so I can test out my studded tires! Make it a large order – no, SUPERSIZE IT!

Seriously, I respect yous guys that trudge through the tundra north of me. I know you had it colder. I am pleased though that the ebike is holding up well enough in this weather. The chain is a bit stiff, but other than that – no complaints.

Safe travels, KF

 

[amberwolf]

For the next week or 10 days the weather dropped down well below freezing and I honestly have to say that riding to work in 22°Fn sucks no matter how layers you’re wearing,

I'd have to agree with that, since even when it's only 40-50F (before windchill) here, it's cold enough to be pretty uncomfortable, even at only 18-19MPH, and after a 10-mile ride my joints are usually killing me whether I move them or not.... When it gets down to or below freezing...I end up wishing for a velo shell. :lol:

Still – it’s an eye-catcher with those knobby studs.

Somehow I don't think it's the tires that catch the eye first.

 

[Kingfish]

Happy Birthday to my Ebike. Actually it was yesterday when it was born 3 years ago from the ashes of the previous ebike. It's pretty much been a stable design since Fall 2012; not much has changed since and there have been no new mods applied. Although it does not mean I'm slacking off, nope. Plenty of ideas in the queue. But that's another story.

Anyways - Happy Birthday buddy: You've been a good ride and I have had few complaints.

Long may you run! KF 8)