Rix
100 TW
zombiess said:
Exactly, what Zombiess said!
Qulbix Raptor ebike + frame kit
- Thread starter sk8norcal
- Start date
Exactly, what Zombiess said!
samoloh
10 W
Thanks for responses, I think I got a better understanding now
kudos
10 kW
To all the raptor owners, just wondering if there's anything you would change about the frame?
Kudos
Kudos
kudos
10 kW
E-Fuel said:
How tall are you e-fuel?
kudos said:
Honestly, I do not know anything that would need changing. Surprisingly a lot of thought went into building the raptor and he didn't make many mistakes.
The geometry is exactly how I wanted it with a 26" front tire and 19" dirt bike tire in the rear when using a 10.5" stroke shock. The bike just handles amazing. However, I never drove a stealth or phasor so I can only compare it to my cross country ebike conversion. But like Rix said, it could come down to the quality of the suspension components.
The motorcycle seat is just perfect really, bike is extremely comfortable to sit on and ride. You can ride all day and not fatigue your ass and back. Controller cover fits my Lyen 18fet perfectly. Battery compartment fits my turnigy lipo cells perfectly with just enough room to squish down the wires when putting the side panel on. Battery compartment has plenty of room for a lot more batteries.
Actually there is one thing I would like changed, the head tube is extremely long. So long that when putting the lower crown at the minimum setting, the upper crown hangs over by a few mm on the top of the stations. I don't know how much this matters as it is a very small amount but the head tube should probably be about 3mm to 5 mm shorter. Not sure if the head tube was made longer for single crown fork clearance and for looking more streamlined with the frame.
The turning radius with the dual crown fork is OK, not sure if making the frame skinnier in the front would have been worth it as the frame may not look as streamlined.
The other issues is the seat tube possibly being high for short people. I didn't use the bicycle seat so I can't comment, although if I did use the bicycle seat I prefer having the seat very low as low as the motorcycle seat because I don't pedal and don't like the seat getting in the way when off roading the bike.
I would say if you use the motorcycle seat, which I highly recommend, this alone makes this bike a better option than the stealth or phasor. I can go on and on about how much I hate bicycle seats and how much they ruin the ride. I also doubt that cops will pull you over less on this bike if you are using a bicycle seat. The bike is large and you will get a lot of attention with it. I doubt people would even notice the difference when you're sitting. Pedal efficiency? Why would you want to pedal a 110LBS bike with a hub motor that has resistance when you pedal. If your driving this bike like it was intended, you shouldn't be pedaling anyway as that causes you to lose balance.
Rix
100 TW
Once again Offroader, your write up was excellent, makes me want to build one of these up with a moto seat. Do you plan on making some videos with the Raptor? 2014 is the year I get a go pro and start learning that. Too bad we don't live closer, would like to meet up for a ride and do that "shoot out" you mentioned a few blogs back. Imagine the data from that! I really like the builds you and the other raptor guys are putting together. Just plain awesome. I may be partial to Stealth, but, we are all ebike enthusiasts, and I for one really appreciate the other ebike options out there such as the Torque Raptor, Greyborg Warp, and Phasor frames.
So true! I got a PM from a forum member about my thoughts for building up a Raptor for maximum light weight and pedal friendliness. Of course it can be done, but why would a builder do that with a frame like this?. It would be like me taking my old Karpiel frame, and putting all lightweight cross country components on it instead of the DH components. It would pedal a little better on the flat, still not be good at climbing, and I would break stuff on a DH course.
On all of the dirt bikes I have ever had, I could never touch flat footed on both sides, never. Even my mountain bikes I have to put a foot on the pedal and hop up and go. My inseam is 32", my seat height on the Bomber is 38". I could cut the seat post and get it down to as low as possible which would be about 32 inches, but my leverage on the pedals would be decreased, and I have climbed some seriously steep stuff because I pedal assisted my bike, I don't want to loose that ability. I think the solution for shorter people with short inseams is to learn how work around the seat height issue. Running a seat bottomed out on the seat tube, and putting a 17MC wheel on the rear and running a 24MTB front would be the exact same as your 19MC rear running the 26MTB up front in terms of front to rear geometry shifts. The bike would feel and turn the same, just with less ground clearance. But this tire combo would drop the over all height of the Raptor an inch. Then run a crankset with 165mm crank arms instead of 175mm. 3/8 inch clearance difference there. It could be done and the only disadvantage would be the slight decrease in ground clearance.
TSAR
10 W
There is a Risse Racing crown for marzocchi 888 that has an offset for bigger stack height. They sell both the raised upper and the flattened lower crowns, but if you just get the upper, it might be enough.
The link is here: http://www.risseracing.com/product_accessories.shtml#888drop
Rix
100 TW
E-Fuel said:
Very beautiful E-Fuel. the all white looks very nice and trick.
samoloh
10 W
E-Fuel said:
Hey E-Fuel did u ask raptor to paint your kit white or did you do it yourself?
litespeed
100 kW
Excellent looking build E-Fuel!
Tom
Tom
Having some bad luck getting my bike on the road after I broke 11 spokes during my last ride.
Got my replacement spokes, decided to just try 13 gauge again so I wouldn't have to buy the expensive nipples and 13 gauge should theoretically be strong enough if tensioned properly.
Anyway, was building my wheel and really tensioned it tight. Then when I was truing it, I started to tighten one spoke and I heard a loud bang and spokes flew out everywhere.
9 spokes broke all at once at the elbows, shooting out very fast like an explosion with nipples attached. I only have 7 extras so my bike is down again and the weather was finally looking good for the end of this week.
At least this is happening during the winter and not the summer, downtime in the summer is a lot worse.
Got my replacement spokes, decided to just try 13 gauge again so I wouldn't have to buy the expensive nipples and 13 gauge should theoretically be strong enough if tensioned properly.
Anyway, was building my wheel and really tensioned it tight. Then when I was truing it, I started to tighten one spoke and I heard a loud bang and spokes flew out everywhere.
9 spokes broke all at once at the elbows, shooting out very fast like an explosion with nipples attached. I only have 7 extras so my bike is down again and the weather was finally looking good for the end of this week.
At least this is happening during the winter and not the summer, downtime in the summer is a lot worse.
izeman
1 GW
your spokes where breaking while you where truing the wheel??? i can understand that they break after a big jump or if the motor is way to strong for the whole wheel set. but if they break while truing the wheel then there are two things that may be wrong:
a) those spokes are CRAP. did you try high quality sapim, dt swiss or similar?
b) you tensioned them way too much - but still normally the thread would be gone before a spokes brakes at the ellbow.
a) those spokes are CRAP. did you try high quality sapim, dt swiss or similar?
b) you tensioned them way too much - but still normally the thread would be gone before a spokes brakes at the ellbow.
Rix
100 TW
Agreed Izeman, junkie spokes and excessive tension are the culprit. Like you, I have never heard of spokes popping like that from truing. Usually its a big hit that does that.
Offroader, if you insist on using small spokes, go 12G minimum. High quality 12s will be adequate, 10-8G is better though. My dad is running some rare custom cut DTswiss 13 straight gauge spokes on his 1800watt geared MAC10 hubbie with a 24"alex rim. He brakes those spokes once in a while and my dad is 67 years old and rides much easier than the rest of us. I don't think any 13G spoke out there will be tough enough for your setup, even high quality saipam units or Phillwood, or DT Swiss aren't going to cut it.
Rix said:
I ordered 11-12 gauge spokes this time. You are correct in that the 13g are just too many problems. If you get a loose spoke with a 11 gauge, at least it will hold up long enough to retighten it, unlike 13 gauge which if you have a loose spoke you wind up breaking a bunch of them because they are weak at the elbows.
I think part of the problem also is that when truing the wheel vertically, I had one high point on the rim and I was tensioning the spokes to see if I could bring it down. When tightening the 13g spokes it did not move the rim at all, not like it would have moved a bicycle rim. This is probably why I over tensioned it because I kept tightening the spoke.
Do you know if you can even true a prowheel rim vertically with a smaller gauge spoke, like 11/12 gauge, or is it too stiff a rim to do that?
Just put 3M scotchgard paint protection film on many places on the frame where the paint was wearing from rubbing wires, chain, brake hoses. completely covered bottom of bike where the controller is mounted.
The brake hoses were slowly wearing the paint on the fork and headtube. Completely covered under the motor wires running to the controller. Basically anything that will rub is now protected.
I wish I would have done this before I rode the bike as just a few rides has caused a lot of paint to wear away.
I used this stuff and just cut and stuck on bike, didn't even use the soap solution.
http://www.amazon.com/3M-84904-ScotchgardTM-Paint-Protection/dp/B0038D5CFO/ref=sr_1_sc_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1387859736&sr=1-1-spell&keywords=scotchgard+tm+paint+protection
The brake hoses were slowly wearing the paint on the fork and headtube. Completely covered under the motor wires running to the controller. Basically anything that will rub is now protected.
I wish I would have done this before I rode the bike as just a few rides has caused a lot of paint to wear away.
I used this stuff and just cut and stuck on bike, didn't even use the soap solution.
http://www.amazon.com/3M-84904-ScotchgardTM-Paint-Protection/dp/B0038D5CFO/ref=sr_1_sc_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1387859736&sr=1-1-spell&keywords=scotchgard+tm+paint+protection
Rix
100 TW
E-Fuel said:
Yes indeed a Merry Christmas and Happy new year. Your build came out beautiful, how does it ride?
[quoteDo you know if you can even true a prowheel rim vertically with a smaller gauge spoke, like 11/12 gauge, or is it too stiff a rim to do that?][/quote]
Off Roader, when I have laced up my wheels, I did so using the Swingarm and pencils as a truing stand, and attaching spokes at 12, 3, 6, and 9 olclock first. I am not a wheel smith, I cant do 2x or 3x patterns, I can do radial and 1x without problems though. When I build up my 5405 on the 18x1.85 Tagasko rim, I will post some pics. Probably in January. One thing about MC rims, they are so stiff that even though you have be careful during lacing to ensure the hub is perfectly centered, its much harder to accidently lace a MC rim "out of round" than it is with a bicycle rim. You almost have to intentionally do it.
Rick
Rix, I have issues tensioning the prowheel and having loose spokes.
I am using 11/12 gauge spokes. These should be better than using straight 11 gauge as the 12 gauge should stretch more and keep spokes from loosening.
First attempt at 11/12, I tightened those up pretty tight. After my first ride I had spokes loosening, but not completely loose. I then retensioned the spokes really tight. Tighter than I made the 13 gauge spokes which I tensioned them so high they broke. This time I went for another ride and some spokes loosened a bit and I will have to tighten them up.
After my ride today I think some spokes need to be tightened again. However, not as much as the first attempt.
What I do notice is that I use alternating spokes and the spokes on the inside get loose faster. It seems that these spokes are more straight when they connect into the nipple and I wonder if that is the reason.
Maybe the spokes loosening up a bit is normal as I don't stress relieve the spokes while tensioning? Maybe I am simply not applying enough tension for 11/12 gauge spokes?
I am going to retension them again and this time I will make them even tighter than last time. This is why I recommend that everyone check spoke tension after every ride! It seems these short spoke lengths make for a spoke that doesn't stretch much and is easily loosened.
I am using 11/12 gauge spokes. These should be better than using straight 11 gauge as the 12 gauge should stretch more and keep spokes from loosening.
First attempt at 11/12, I tightened those up pretty tight. After my first ride I had spokes loosening, but not completely loose. I then retensioned the spokes really tight. Tighter than I made the 13 gauge spokes which I tensioned them so high they broke. This time I went for another ride and some spokes loosened a bit and I will have to tighten them up.
After my ride today I think some spokes need to be tightened again. However, not as much as the first attempt.
What I do notice is that I use alternating spokes and the spokes on the inside get loose faster. It seems that these spokes are more straight when they connect into the nipple and I wonder if that is the reason.
Maybe the spokes loosening up a bit is normal as I don't stress relieve the spokes while tensioning? Maybe I am simply not applying enough tension for 11/12 gauge spokes?
I am going to retension them again and this time I will make them even tighter than last time. This is why I recommend that everyone check spoke tension after every ride! It seems these short spoke lengths make for a spoke that doesn't stretch much and is easily loosened.
voicecoils
1 MW
Offroader said:
Next time they are tightened, apply a mild loctite to the spoke/threads threads, this will help keep the nipple from unwinding and let you isolate whether the wheel going loose is due to lack of proper seating / stress relieving or lack of tension allowing nipples to unwind.
If your spokes are long enough to fit the Park tension meter in (least expensive meter that works reasonably well) than it's a good investment to give you data to inform wheel building decisions.
Another thing to to remember is that a dry spoke & nipple thread + rim's nipple seat will feel like it's at high tension prematurely. You'll want to really well lubricate everything to reduce friction and let you smoothly build up to a decent tension.
Rix
100 TW
Offroader said:
Just in case you didn't know, Voice Coils is a wheel smith and knows wheel builds very very well. In addition to what he said, after you tension your spokes, back the tension off just a tiny bit, like a 1/16th turn out, after tensioning, this will unload the "twist" tension at the hub flange as well. I have never used a tension meter, I can tell by sound and feel and be close to the ball park, even though each individual spoke tension will vary more by not using a tension meter. By wheel smiths standards, this would be deemed kind of half assed. Having clarified that, from what you are describing , this actually sounds normal to me, on my 3rd ebike wheel that I laced up. For the first few rides, I was tightening and truing every time. Like you said, each time though, the spoke wouldn't be as loose as before and I tightened them less. Eventually they get to the point where the spokes quit stretching and they just take a set. Once this happens, the amount of spokes loosening practically drops to zero. Every once in a while, I will find one that loosens up a little during my preventative maintenance inspection (PMI), but its rare after the spokes have taken set.
VC, thanks for the tip about the locktite and oil. I didn't think of that on my wheel builds but it makes since if I put a dab of locktight on the spoke threads and a drop of oil between the nipple head and rim spoke hole seat. I will do this on my up and coming 5405 and the Tagasko 18x1.85 rim.
Rick
Thanks for the tips, with the Loctite, wouldn't I have to apply it before I inserted the spoke into the nipple?
I already put never seize on each spoke thread. I can't see how the Loctite can be applied after the spoke is tightened.
I was thinking about possibly applying white out to a side of each nipple and spoke to see which ones are turning loose.
I already put never seize on each spoke thread. I can't see how the Loctite can be applied after the spoke is tightened.
I was thinking about possibly applying white out to a side of each nipple and spoke to see which ones are turning loose.
Rix
100 TW
You could back out each spoke 4 turns or and put some locktite on and tighten up again, that would get some of the thread lock where it needs to be, time consuming though, figure about a minute per spoke. You could mark the spokes to see if which ones were coming loose, but eventually they will take a set and stop anyways. Whether they come loose or not doesn't' matter because the spokes need to be checked and tightened periodically anyways. But if you must know by glancing, marking the spoke is the only way to do it.
Rick
Rick
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