Searching for a spare/upgrade controller

[999zip999]

When it works can you draw a diagram for hooking up the C.A. plug.

 

[E-HP]

When it works can you draw a diagram for hooking up the C.A. plug.

I guess I'm a little further away from it working than I had optimistically thought. Spent about 4 hours so far trying to get it to work, and maybe it's "cake" when everything goes right, but it's been more like cow "pie". I'll need to throw some questions up on the other thread .

Anyway, I can make a generic diagram, since it's the same on this one as for the spare controller.

 

[999zip999]

One those Ebike tester says it will tell you the phase and maybe Or halls . It in print.

 

[E-HP]

One those Ebike tester says it will tell you the phase and maybe Or halls . It in print.

I think it's on the VESC side. I got frustrated, unplugged the VESC, plugged in the spare controller and went for a ride. So motor is good. Back doing more reading and watching more videos.

I need a small brushless motor to throw on the kitchen table so I can test while sitting in the AC, sipping a beer. Might not solve it faster, but who cares... :lol:

EDIT: This guy had the exact same issue. Down in the comments, he finally got it working by selecting BLDC instead of FOC before running the detection. Something to try tomorrow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPwwiWTd_5s&t=305s

 

[Hummina Shadeeba]

If u want to FaceTime tomorrow or late tonight pacifi standard time I could try. I’ve got many going in the past using Vesc.

610-416-2650

 

[E-HP]

If u want to FaceTime tomorrow or late tonight pacifi standard time I could try. I’ve got many going in the past using Vesc.

610-416-2650

Thanks, I may eventually take you up on that, but even though it's frustrating, I like the problem solving aspect, so that's an offset. Ebikes are a great hobby, if you enjoy the hunt.

The guy on the YouTube vid I linked, also had the same issue when clicking on the resistance/inductance test. I think the two are linked, and the motor detection in the wizard is stopping due to whatever issue is causing the resistance/induction detection test to fail. Detecting the halls is the only test that runs like it should, with the wheel rotating back and forth.

Also, I think I may have missed writing back to the controller after changing a setting or two, so need to go back and be more methodical. I'm playing around with it on the couch, powered by a 6S lipo, but no motor. I let's me go through the setting and do everything but run the detection, so it easy just to get familiar with the softward/interface.

Bad news is, it's an 8Ah Graphene lipo ($$) and it's looking a little bit puffy Going to require further inspection.

 

[999zip999]

Well well good luck as I have to go down and try to get my Crystatlye 72v 50amp controller. going tried it till I got the the old Lyen 18fet and both didn't work with spare edge 1,500 motor it would go but after 20sec it would die both controllers same problem so I changed motors and the Lyen works. So next I have e break down to test it. But it's so hard taking apart a working setup to test it. I have to just go ride. Changed 4mm to 5.5mm phase connectors. And Wow from 43mph to 46mph.
My bike needs bling. ( Gold ) plated bullet's

 

[E-HP]

Well well good luck as I have to go down and try to get my Crystatlye 72v 50amp controller.bI tried till I got the the old Lyen 18fet and both didn't work with spare edge 1,500 motor it would go be after 20sec it would die both controllers same problem bso I changed motors and the Lyen works. So next I have e break down to test it. But it's so hard taking apart a working setup to test it. I have to just go ride. 4mm to 5.5mm phase connectors. And Wow from 43mph to 46mph.
My bike needs bling. ( Gold ) plated bullet's

I can see this Flipsky may be something I'll be tinkering with for a while, and doing some of the suggested mods. It likely needs a good heatsink to perform to spec for any length of time. That said, still researching the Greentime controllers to have something reliable with more performance than my current generic spare.

 

[E-HP]

I'm still trying to troubleshoot the Flipsky, but not really. The nice weather riding days are coming to an end, so I'd rather be out riding than troubleshooting. The spare controller has been doing the job fine, and fun within a decent range of speeds. The sound from a stop can be irritating, so I miss the silence of a sine wave controller. Cruising is fine, but from a stop, especially starting uphill, is just plain noisy. Plus, it falls short of it's 45A rating, maxing out at around 36A. Power is more than the stated 2000W, and hits close to 2900W under load.

Anyway, it's OK, but I ordered another cheap controller, sine wave, and more (rated) power, off Amazon. It arrived today, so I'm part way done adding the CA connector and getting it ready for a plug and play installation. It should fit in the existing controller location, under the cargo rack. The heat sink is half of the controller, so I suspect that won't be an issue. Rated 80A, 60V/72V, 3000W, 3 speed switch, cruise control. As far as I can tell, it doesn't have regen, so doesn't check that box.


On the right are the phases with XT150 connectors, the XT90 battery connector, white motor temp sensor wire going to the CA, red and green JST going to the external shunt, hall sensor connector, and Cycle Analyst connector. The yellow wire of the CA connector taps into the yellow hall sensor wire, the blue and white go the external shunt via the JST mentioned above. The green CA wire goes over to the left bundle, and taps into the throttle signal wire (you can see the green wire between the two rubber boots).* That leaves the black and red CA connector wires that go to switched battery (+), and battery (-), that I'm not connecting until doing a couple of tests to make sure I'm tapping the right wires.

On the left bundle, are the orange ignition, the alarm red and black, that I believe are unswitched battery (+) and battery (-), which I need to verify, then solder on the loose 2 pin JST for the on/off switch. At that point I could tap into the orange and black wires to complete the CA connector wiring. The next connector is the throttle, which I don't need, but will keep until I get it running, in case I need it for troubleshooting. The low brake, cruise control, and 3 speed switch connectors finish off the bundle. I snipped off all of the other wires I won't need, and jumpered the 60V/72V selector permanently under the boot. I'll label everything afterwards.

I'll be happy if the controller can peak at 60A and 4000W or so. I'd be amazed if it can do the full 80A.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B8CRXGTW?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

 

[thundercamel]

That looks like the same controller that APL uses, but his thread linked here which is a little cheaper.

 

[LewTwo]

... The nice weather riding days are coming to an end ....

Funny, I was just contemplating the opposite.
The monsoons are ending and cooler weather makes for a more pleasant ride

 

[torker]

I am wanting to go to a 52v battery on one of my old 9c dd hubs. And a bit more amps.
Do you think one of the controllers you are using will work . I also would like to have a display maybe.

 

[E-HP]

I am wanting to go to a 52v battery on one of my old 9c dd hubs. And a bit more amps.
Do you think one of the controllers you are using will work . I also would like to have a display maybe.

The temp one I'm using now should do 52V, but it won't have a display; but the one I'm about to install only works on 60V or 72V, and has a jumper to set the voltage.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MS143GY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[E-HP]

That looks like the same controller that APL uses, but his thread linked here which is a little cheaper.

Yup, there are a bunch all rebranded to whatever company name they slap on it on Amazon and eBay. I paid the extra 2 bucks because out of all of the listings, this one would deliver in a week, but mine arrived early in just a few days. Thanks for the link to APL's thread. I haven't looked at the thread for a while and looks like he got it up and running and happy with the controller.

Mine is ready to drop in now; labeled everything for future reference, and crossing my fingers that I have it wired up correctly. I see APL had to mess with the hall/phase combos, so I guess I may have that to look forward to.



EDIT 09-16-22
I installed the controller. When I fired it up, and twisted the throttle the motor was stuck. Swapped the blue and green phase wires and presto, smooth and quiet. The 3 speed switch on this one does make a difference. 43 MPH in low, just around 58 MPH in medium, and just around 65 MPH in high, no load running at 76V.

Of course when I tidied up the wiring after mounting it with zip ties, I screwed something up and I couldn't get it spinning. Took about 2 hours of trouble shooting and at one point I thought I'd fried my halls. I smelled something, and it was the motor. It was hot. That was from swapping the phase wire combo, trying to get it unstuck. I started doing hall sensor tests and got weird results. Swapped back the old controller and it worked, but acted odd, cutting out when it spun up passed a certain point. I later found out that the backup controller can run sensorless, after unplugging the hall connector. Another hour, and then I noticed that with the backup controller, with the hall connector hooked up, I wasn't getting a temperature reading, and also no speed. I was sure it was the halls, but then after taking a break, something told me to check the Molex connector, and sure enough, one of the blades was bent down and not inserting. I bent it back up and connected it, and back in business!!

This controller is a bargain at $80. I'm pretty sure the maximum phase amps are higher than my PowerVelocity, and it pulls much harder off the line. I dialed back my throttle ramp rate to 2V/sec and it's still a little scary. The PV was set to 2.2V/sec and that was just enough to keep the wheel down. In low speed, it pulls 4380 W, which is almost the same as the PV, but the acceleration is harder. I tried riding on medium for a while, but it's already pretty crazy on low. I can't wait to see how it performs hot off the charger, since I started testing it at 79V.

I still need to hook up the on/off switch (I hooked up the brake cutoff before riding, just in case) and cruise control button. It would be perfect if it had regen, but I'm adjusting my riding style to start coasting before approaching a stop much earlier, since I started using the other controller. But, at this point, I'm not in as big of a hurry to repair the PV unit.

 

[amberwolf]

... The nice weather riding days are coming to an end ....

Funny, I was just contemplating the opposite.
The monsoons are ending and cooler weather makes for a more pleasant ride

Ditto!

 

[torker]

I am wanting to go to a 52v battery on one of my old 9c dd hubs. And a bit more amps.
Do you think one of the controllers you are using will work . I also would like to have a display maybe.

The temp one I'm using now should do 52V, but it won't have a display; but the one I'm about to install only works on 60V or 72V, and has a jumper to set the voltage.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MS143GY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I think the spare you are using would be good for me.
I have the old slow wind 9c. Only 17 mph at 36 v. And just running old original controller w modded shunt @ 30 amps . Kinda lame/ safe..
Not sure what speed it would run at 52v. That and 40+ Amps should make it better to ride and probably keep up with the Himiway at 28 mph or so.

 

[gobi]

E-HP,

Good work on figuring out the generic controller,
I skimmed through the other thread and seems this as a programming port, it would be nice if you can turn on regen braking.

I picked up one

Are you going to rebuild the battery?

 

[E-HP]

I realized last night, that while reviewing the trip stats on the CA, that I had forgot that my "Off Road" setting on my CA has a 60A battery current limit. My "Unlimited" setting has no current limit and Bypass throttle mode, but not wanting to try that yet. I'll up the limit on the Off Road setting to 80A and see if it hits that in Low, and go from there, since the ~4300W that I'm getting in Low may a CA limit and not the speed setting limit.

Even with the limit, there was no lack of power or speed going up hills and the controller stays cool.

EDIT: I upped the CA current limit to 90A and did a few hard accelerations and uphill climbs, but didn't get over 60A. I tried in medium, and same thing. I still need to try with no limits and bypass throttle, but the roads are moist/wet right now, so I think I'll wait for a better day. I can't get over how smooth it makes the motor run; hills just feel effortless. I added a video of my climb up the hill yesterday on my build thread. I researching brakes now, since if I stick with this controller and no regen, I'll need something better.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=97945&start=225#p1732159

 

[thundercamel]

I can't get over how smooth it makes the motor run; hills just feel effortless.

Is that smooth because you're back to sine wave or because it has more power? (or something else)

 

[E-HP]

I can't get over how smooth it makes the motor run; hills just feel effortless.

Is that smooth because you're back to sine wave or because it has more power? (or something else)

I'm not sure. The motor seems to run smoother under load than with the PowerVelocity controller and both are sine wave. I also recall that switching from my old KT sine wave to the PV that the KT ran smoother. It's not really the sound, which is a slight difference, but more like less vibration. It's subtle, but even pulling out of my driveway, it feels silky. Maybe the timing is just better?

 

[electric_nz]

Great thread! I had seen these and wondered if they were any good. How do you select between 60-72V? Does it have a adjustable low voltage cutoff?

I have a 22S battery (88.2v fully charged) and was hoping it might handle that, any documentation with it?

There is also a 96V version which looks promising but if it has a non adjustable low voltage cutoff then it won’t be much use.

 

[E-HP]

Great thread! I had seen these and wondered if they were any good. How do you select between 60-72V? Does it have a adjustable low voltage cutoff?

I have a 22S battery (88.2v fully charged) and was hoping it might handle that, any documentation with it?

There is also a 96V version which looks promising but if it has a non adjustable low voltage cutoff then it won’t be much use.

It has jumpers for 60V vs 72V and for the soft start feature. It has a programming port, but doesn't come with any info on how to use it. As far as 22S goes, APL's thread, mentioned above, has several pics that you may be able to check the component ratings (Caps, etc.). No documentation related to LVC or any other parameters.

EDIT: OK, I charged up to 83V and went down to the spot I've been testing 0-30 MPH times. With the PV controller, all else being equal, the best time was 3.8 sec, 154 ft. With this controller, no limits applied by the CA and 3 speed switch on high, I got 4.5 sec, 184ft. The max current was 59.83A, within a few tenths of what the CA has been capturing on all of my tests on this unit. So basically, it's locked down to 60A.

Looking at APL's thread, his was locked down even lower. He did a voltage divider mod, that worked. I'm not sure if the same mod would work in the same manner, since our starting points are different. I'd like to get the peak current up to the rated 80A, so not a huge gain. I'm wondering if just a straight old fashioned shunt mod would work for that increase. I'm using an external shunt, so modding the controller shunts won't affect the CA's current monitoring. Going to noodle on this a bit.

The launch is still hard and requires leaning way over the front, just like with the PV. It feels like the torque isn't there as with the PV from launch to 15 MPH or so, but looking at the 0-20 time of 1.7 sec, that seems to indicate it's dropping off mostly from 20-30. Weird, because from the seat of the pants meter, this controller pulls stronger between 15-30. The PV hit 118.9A at launch, so it wasn't limited to it's 70A rating, while this one is hard coded to 60A.

 

[E-HP]

I think I'm going to get another one of these cheap no name controllers, for modding, and testing. I'm going to order from the same Amazon vendor, and hopefully receive the same unit. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B8CRXGTW?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

Given that they all look alike, and APL's was providing less than half the rated power before mods, it seems like there's a wide range of power these units are set to besides the rated 80A. Since it's a test unit that won't take my bike out of service, I just have to accept the risk that this could be destructive testing.

The two things I will try are 1) a simple shunt mod to get the peak current up to around the 80A rating, or beyond, and 2) attempting to mod the LVC to allow it to run on 14S. Since it uses a jumper to select between 60V and 72V, I'll trace the jumper wires back to the board and see if I can figure out what needs to be changed to lower the 60V (16S?) setting down to an LVC for 14S.
I'll also poke around and see if I can find anything regen related.

It seems like this controller is a good "dumb" unit to pair with a Cycle Analyst, and using the CA, can be adapted and provide the functionality for many setups, for lower and higher power.

 

[999zip999]

59.00 No fee Amazon card.
79.66
Get $20 off instantly: Pay $59.66 $79.66 upon approval for the Amazon Prime Store Card. No annual fee
How does that work ?

 

[gobi]

E-HP,
I looked on alibaba to see if I could find the manufacturer of this controller,

I found this:

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/60-72v-70A-3000w-3500w130A-brushless_1600540287719.html

I messaged them and asked if regen braking is possible and PC programming,
They said NO to both questions.