Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

[Chalo]

You are paying too much attention to Chalo. He advices people to use mechanical brakes because he is having too much problems with hydraulics :lol:

So, can I assume you are able to service your hydraulic brakes on the roadside when they crap out? Set your tubeless tire bead after patching your tire casing while out on a long ride?

 

[SolarBeaver]

I run the SR241s and TuBliss rear. Trials tires will hook up on anything as long as they aren't packed w/ mud. Love the heck out of mine on the rear. Not as big a fan on the front. I originally put it on there to use the SurRon for the scout laps at Trials events - maybe even try to use it at one of them. It doesn't have tight enough steering so I gave up on the latter idea fairly quick. The SR241 on the front is fine at speed until it isn't. When it starts to wash out it is very sudden. A more typ dirt knobby is far more progessive. They also tend to have knobs much farther over on the side than a trials tire so you can lean over a MX knobby farther. I haven't measured my SR241 but its likely a lot softer durometer than nearly any mx tire except a hybrid enduro.

The E-XC had Michelin Starcross 5 Meds mounted when I picked it up. Hard as a rock (~75 ShoreA) and SUCKS in the wet over roots/rocks. Works great in wet & muddy single track though. I'm going to put the oem rear tire back on (its trials-like) the E-XC. Will keep the front on for now.

Thanks!

After going back and forth I've decided to stick with 19/16 setup, don't think all that extra hassle with the weight is worth it anymore. If I want a more full-sized enduro feel I'm better off buying a full-sized gas bike enduro instead :lol:

On top of that, I can run lightweight Mitas Terra Force MX SM front and more importantly super grippy Shinko 525 cheater on the rear.

Do I still have to get a rising linkage with this or is Shinko 525 tall enough without any mods required?

And want to thank all you guys for all the advice, that was really helpful!

 

[3DTOPO]

Personally I've been running tubeless (not TuBliss) for years and couldn't be happier.

Have you converted standart Sur-ron wheels to tubeless? If yes, I would appreciate advice how to do it properly.
I want to go tubeless next season, but considered using TuBliss kit as it seems to be more reliable then gorilla tape or similar.
But if there is a trustworthy way of converting stock wheels to tubeless, I would be glad to save some $$$

Yeah, if you search this thread for tubeless you will see I posted a part list and some instructions (you can just skip to page two of the results because it's all noise from the Chalo.

P.S. You are paying too much attention to Chalo. He advices people to use mechanical brakes because he is having too much problems with hydraulics :lol:

:lol:

So, can I assume you are able to service your hydraulic brakes on the roadside when they crap out? Set your tubeless tire bead after patching your tire casing while out on a long ride?

Let's count the number of times my hydraulic brakes have crapped out on roadside or I needed to set the bead after patching.

Hmmm, 0 and done.

Do you not understand that tubeless literally eliminates the tube and thus the need for patching? I mean, if you are tubeless, what the hell are you patching?

 

[Chalo]

Do you not understand that tubeless literally eliminates the tube and thus the need for patching? I mean, if you are tubeless, what the hell are you patching?

Maybe you haven't gotten tire cuts that baptized you and your bike with vegan yogurt, but my coworkers certainly have. Sometimes a dart or a bacon strip plug ain't gonna do it, so you have to call for rescue (and rescue may not appreciate being asked to carry your drippy messy bike). With a tubed tire, you patch or replace the tube, stick a folded dollar bill behind the casing cut, pump up and proceed.

After you get your bike home and mop off all the corruption, you have the choice of patching your tubeless tire from the inside, or throwing it away. Because it will already have a buildup of fresh mozzarella sticking to the inside, most tubeless dingdongs opt to replace.

Here are a couple of the donated tires at the community bike shop that weren't nasty enough to throw away immediately. Thanks for the garbage, dingdongs:

 

[3DTOPO]

After you get your bike home and mop off all the corruption

You're delirious. That is all I have to say to you on the subject and done trying to reason with you.

 

[AZeBikeGuy]

I come from the moto world, have over a million miles on them with about half in the dirt... I also have many, many thousands of miles on bicycles with a large portion off-road, some in the very remote backcountry... I have my own take on tubeless, etc. and recognize we all have our own perspectives and use our machines differently in different places so there aren't hard and fast rules about the matter.

I'll start by stating that on my electric fat-bike that has high-quality tubeless ready rims and tires I still run tubes but they are full of stans (2-4x what they recommend).


I'm not that keen on going fully tubeless on a wheel that even though it's called "tubeless-ready" requires sealant to be tubeless. I had a lot of motos with spoke rims and all with an exception I'll get too I ran tubes in. OTOH all my motos with non-spoke rims I ran tubeless... simple punctures were quick duty to address with a plug kit and in all those miles never had anything a plug kit wouldn't address. On the spoke wheels I got really good at repairing flats trail side and always carried a spare front tube (can use the front tubes in the rear if push comes to shove)... but it's really hard, even just breaking the bead is really hard (keep chanting - finesse & patience, not force!) and I replaced all my tires if just for the practice - also to make sure they were done right too since I've had too many tubes pinched by others - they usually have a low paid kid doing that stuff at the shops.

When I got my first BMW that had the cross spoke rims now it was the best of both worlds... the spoke heads are outside the beads so no sealant required and you can still true them etc. No tubes and use plug kits for repair - again never let down in my history.


Now with the bikes, here in AZ, no matter where you ride you are going to pick up thorns (*lots* of goat heads everywhere) and if you just run tubes without any sealant you will be dealing with a flat every other ride. I hated slime, just wouldn't go there and dealt with patching trail side and carrying spare tubes.

Then I was introduced to stans and my world is a much better place. Saw a demo at the overland expo and that convinced me to try it in my tubes and I've never looked back. Pretty much any mess is contained in the tubes (like a stans condom) and any tiny bit that manages it's way out onto the wheel is easily cleaned up - I couldn't care less if some gets on the inside of the tires. New tires, throw out old tubes/tires, rinse talc out of new tubes with water, fill with stans then install new tires just like normal, easy peasy. There is some tiny learning curve to making it clean, quick and easy but it's really no big deal.

I started doing this close to 10,000mi ago on my electric bike and instead of getting flats every other ride I get zero flats - haven't had one yet <touch wood>. Stopped bothering with carrying patches and tubes except when going into the backcountry where the consequences are much higher (means a possible long rough walk and I'm old and disabled) since rescue may not be easy or even achievable. I still carry a pump but since stans it only gets used for other people (usually attractive gals - I never said I wasn't a dirty old man ;-} ).

While I understand that going fully tubeless may buy a small bit of ability to run lower pressures or go faster over rocks that might give a pinch flat with a tube or tear a valve stem and it will save a little weight, I just don't see the point of the hassle, especially on electric... maybe some day I'll give it a try but if a rim can't hold air without sealant it's pretty well branded in my head to run a tube... it does hardly seem worth the much greater hassle when it comes time to change tires - I'm sorry, it just doesn't get much easier than my stans in the tubes ritual...


I've looked at the tubliss but that also seems way more cost/hassle than any benefits it might bring.. admittedly no first hand though.. last I checked they don't make them for the wheels/tires I run regardless...


But hey - we all have to find what works for best for each of us... there's not so much right ways and wrong ways, just cost/benefit IMO... and it's best to keep an open mind - so easy to get locked in our ways and admittedly that slowed my stans adoption and I realize I was just being stupid... the cost of going fully tubeless in the hassle doesn't seem worth the very minor benefits... to me...


YMMV

 

[Chalo]

After you get your bike home and mop off all the corruption

You're delirious. That is all I have to say to you on the subject and done trying to reason with you.

Whatever you say.

 

[Chalo]

After you get your bike home and mop off all the corruption

You're delirious. That is all I have to say to you on the subject and done trying to reason with you.

Whatever you say.

 

[3DTOPO]

Whatever you say.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Man talk about some straight propaganda from the innertube sector. Jeeez

So obviously staged.

 

[Chalo]

Whatever you say.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Man talk about some straight propaganda from the innertube sector. Jeeez

So obviously staged.

I've seen worse in my own bike shop, so I doubt it. One of the images is from a YouTube video in which inflation goes awry, so that accounts for the decent lighting.

 

[3DTOPO]

I've seen worse in my own bike shop, so I doubt it.

I suppose it is likely for clowns to be in a circus, so I don't doubt it.

All your pictures and folklore account for is stupidity, and surely there is no shortage of that coming from you.

 

[SolarBeaver]

Kinda regret bringing this topic in

 

[AZeBikeGuy]

I've seen that kind of mess - it can be real

If the tire doesn't seat on the bead right while inflating and pops off it is a huge mess and that stuff stains and goes everywhere

However - anytime I've seen it, it was pilot error... installer wasn't being careful about ensuring the bead was seated properly during inflation and only on rims that don't have the great seats for the bead... I've seen this with tubes too - probably even worse since it has to build up enough pressure to rupture the tube that squeezes through the gap between the bead and the rim... but again it's simply the installer not being careful enough and I've only seen it on rims where the tire is loose in the rim when it's "seated"...

OTOH it is a huge mess for a small error that with just tubes would only end up being a scrapped tube...


Not going to stop me from running stans in my tubes though - I've got good rims and I'm *very* careful while seating the beads after witnessing this a couple of times...

 

[3DTOPO]

It's like showing the worse possible car wreck in history and proclaim that is why no one should drive.

First time I made a little mess, though, mostly on cardboard which I just threw away along with some rubber gloves. Hardly a big deal for years of trouble free miles.

 

[AZeBikeGuy]

It's like showing the worse possible car wreck in history and proclaim that is why no one should drive.

First time I made a little mess, though, mostly on cardboard which I just threw away along with some rubber gloves. Hardly a big deal for years of trouble free miles.

I couldn't agree more however the first time I saw one it made a mess all over the walls, ceiling, clothes, nearby car, etc. and took a long time to clean up - and you better do it immediately and prioritize the important stuff since it will cure quickly - so it was a big deal... but as far as I'm concerned at least it was a learning experience at someone else's expense ( however I did help with the cleanup) and kept me from doing that...


OTOH I'm not going to get all dogmatic about it - do what works for you

 

[3DTOPO]

OTOH I'm not going to get all dogmatic about it - do what works for you

I completely agree that people should do what works best for them.

But I'm going to have an issue when someone tries to tell me that I don't know what works for me regarding something proven to work for me.

 

[AZeBikeGuy]

..But I'm going to have an issue when someone tries to tell me that I don't know what works for me regarding something proven to work for me.

I'm not telling you what works for you

 

[3DTOPO]

..But I'm going to have an issue when someone tries to tell me that I don't know what works for me regarding something proven to work for me.

I'm not telling you what works for you

I'm not talking about you.

 

[markz]

It is quite amusing actually, I can't believe I almost missed reading it.
I had a slime filled inner tube that made a little mess, another clogged the valve but I never tried tubeless. Only tried motorcycle and moped tires/tubes/rims with bicycle spokes/hubs.
Some people love tubeless and will fight to the end on their mound because it worked for them, but it doesnt work for others.
Who cares, getting so upset over it.
Changing an inner tube is so quick and easy. Bring along a patch kit or a spare tube. Takes no time at all.
Hate to be stranded and have to call someone to pick me up with tubeless.
I've had countless flats, rear hub motor is the hardest to fix but I can do it fast. Even faster on a front non hub motor. Maybe a few seconds longer on non hub motor rear dealing with the chain and rd.

Kinda regret bringing this topic in

 

[3DTOPO]

Some people love tubeless and will fight to the end on their mound because it worked for them, but it doesnt work for others.

I love my tubeless but it's not that I am some kind of tubeless evangelist. It's when someone is spewing bullshit about something that I have experience with, I'm going to call them out. Doesn't mater what the topic is.

Changing an inner tube is so quick and easy. Bring along a patch kit or a spare tube. Takes no time at all.

Can't say I agree. On the Sur Ron, first you have to loosen the chain tensioners, then you have to loosen the axle allen and nut, take the wheel off, get the tire off the rim, get the new tube in (and hope you don't pinch the tube when putting the tire back on the rim which is super tight with the tires I run), then put the wheel back on, tighten the axle, put the chain on, tension it and lock the tensioners. I don't see how it could be done in less than 20 minutes, and if you pinched the tube you have to do it again. And doing all that on the side of the mountain isn't my idea of fun.

Versus none of that to top off some sealant. Just unscrew the valve, fill the syringe with fluid, inject and screw the valve back in. Takes about two minutes and I'm good for another year.

Hate to be stranded and have to call someone to pick me up with tubeless.

Funny because I've never had to call someone to pick me up running tubeless - and not that I even could out here in the wilderness.

But I have limped home countless times from a torn valve stem. Since I know I could limp home if I ever needed to, it's really not any concern to me.

 

[3DTOPO]

To be clear - if Chalo would have just said something like he is not a fan of tubeless, then fine. Nothing to argue about.

But he was telling me some day I will live to regret running tubeless, how the very notion of tubeless is some kind of disgraceful scam, and everyone running tubeless are “wankers”, etc. etc. Thats what I had issue with.

 

[Merlin]

we need a mod to clean up here.............

 

[SolarBeaver]

TuBliss doesn't use any sealant, it's just regular air, isn't it a perfect solution then? And as far as I can understand you can run 0 psi on the outer "tube", and pitching an inner tube is not easy at all. Even if you do, you can probably have a regular tube with you in case the worst thing happens.
The main benefit is obv to run super low PSI though.

 

[DanGT86]

Is it clear to everyone in this discussion that TUbliss is a specific brand name product designed for motorcycle rims? I feel like there is an assumption that it is an alternate spelling of the bike industry's tube-less systems.

http://tubliss.com/tubliss/#how-it-works

TUbliss is a high pressure small inner bladder that doubles as a bead lock to hold the tire bead on the rim so the main pressure can be as low as 0 psi. Like Solarbeaver mentioned there is no liquid sealant involved.

 

[Rix]

TuBliss doesn't use any sealant, it's just regular air, isn't it a perfect solution then? And as far as I can understand you can run 0 psi on the outer "tube", and pitching an inner tube is not easy at all. Even if you do, you can probably have a regular tube with you in case the worst thing happens.
The main benefit is obv to run super low PSI though.

You bring up a great point, there are more than one tubeless option out there, and some tubeless options are better than others.