TSDZ2 EBike wireless standard (like Specialized Turbo Levo) - OpenSource

[Beli]

in my battery there isn't a control board, so i have free space and the cover of the heatsink is in plastic, it should work without external antenna... or not?

That looks different than I thought. If there is a plastic cover it should be okay.

 

[casainho]

Great but would be good if we keep using the same hardware, so later we can compare. I think would be good if you could use the same DC-DC, in the case you will buy it yet.

Using the same hardware means we can have the same dimensions, can be important for 3D printed enclosures.

Ok, i've just ordered also thr DCDC you posted, but it's rated 55v in continuous usage while my battery at full charge is 59v.
Could i use a 250mA-500mA resettable fuse?
To build the remote i need only the nrf52840 board?
If it'll help i have a 3d printer and i can project and print in PLA, ABS and PETG.
I've also a CNC mill to create PCBs.

I think the fuse is ok to use, but not needed.

For the remote you will need the battery.

We need a box for the remote, can you design it?

dd7818ta (5v 2.1Ah)

That DC-DC is bigger in size, it is an disadvantage. But it has other important advantages for this project:
- no need to adjust, fixed output of 5V, this means even easier to build the board and less risk of a mistake!
- inverse polarity protection, again very important for this DIY project, to avoid errors and smoke
- output over current protection, again very important for this DIY project, to avoid errors and smoke

I was further looking on EBay there is only other option, a smaller one but that has 2 fixed outputs of 5V and 3.3V and seems to have less protections. So I think this "dd7818ta EBike Buck Step-down 80V 5V" is a better option!!

 

[rananna]

I have received this converter from Ali Express. It works well with a fixed 5v output, is also quite small, inexpensive , and works up to 90v
DC Step Down Module Power Supply Non-isolated Buck Converter
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mM20Ag5


1.Description:
It is a DC constant voltage constant current step down power supply module.It can be used as ordinary buck power supply module, charger and LED constant current driver.Simple and efficient, practical.
2.Features:
1>.High input voltage;

2>.Stable voltage output;

3>.Support over temperature protection;

4>.Support overvoltage protection;

5>.Support short circuit protection;

6>.Low power consumption;

7>.Support constant voltage constant current output;

8>.Support charging function;

9>.With heat sink and keep good heat dissipation.

3.Parameters:
1>.Product Name:5V 3A DC Step Down Power Supply Module

2>.Working VoltageC 9.0V-90V(Keep input is at least 4.0V high than output)

3>.Output VoltageC 5V

4>.Output Current:3A

5>.Output Power:15W

6>.Conversion efficiency:About 96%(The smaller the differential voltage, the higher the efficiency)

7>.Working frequency:140KHz

8>.Soft Starter:Yes(Failure at high power load)

9>.Over temperature protection:Yes

10>.Overvoltage protection:Yes

11>.Short circuit protection:Yes

12>.Working Temperature range:-40℃~85℃

13>.Working Humidity range:0%-95%RH

14>.Size:42*30*17mm



4.Using Steps:



1>.Connect right input voltage at input terminal.

2>.Turn ON power supply.

3>.Check output voltage by voltmeter and ammeter.

4>.Connect load.



5.Note:



1>.It is a step down power supply module,So please keep input is at least 4.0V high than output.

2>.Input and output are Non-isolated, safe and reliable.

 

[rananna]

It is also available on ebay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/402564354792

 

[casainho]

I have received this one from Ali Express. It is also quite small, inexpensive , and works up to 90v
DC Step Down Module Power Supply Non-isolated Buck Converter
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mM20Ag5

I think the other one still wins because:
- inverse polarity protection, again very important for this DIY project, to avoid errors and smoke

The inverse polarity protection protects both this board and the NRF52 board, which I think is an important feature.

Also that one has the inductor in vertical, seems more prone to fail due to vibrations which we will have a lot at least on MTB EBikes, like in my case. In fact, I think we should put some glue on this coils to avoid breaking the wires that are connected to PCB, to avoid the fails because on our application we have a lot of vibrations.

 

[Filippods]

That looks different than I thought. If there is a plastic cover it should be okay.

i have new hailong case suitable for 21700 cells

We need a box for the remote, can you design it?

ok, any idea to start from? you plan to modify the original one or build a completly new one, maybe similar to levo bike?

So I think this "dd7818ta EBike Buck Step-down 80V 5V" is a better option!!

 

[casainho]

I updated the wireless remote schematic and the project page: https://opensourceebike.github.io

 

[rananna]

I updated the wireless remote schematic and the project page: https://opensourceebike.github.io

The CR2032 cell should be connected to VDD OUT.
Also, no need to connect to pin 2 of the bootloader flash. the 5V there may cause a problem with the CR2032 connected.

 

[casainho]

The CR2032 cell should be connected to VDD OUT.
Also, no need to connect to pin 2 of the bootloader flash. the 5V there may cause a problem with the CR2032 connected.

I will correct the battery.

I was expecting to recommend users to flash the bootloader without the battery connected, just like on TSZ2 wireless board, without connecting to display cable. What is best? I think we should stick with the same process for both.

ok, any idea to start from? you plan to modify the original one or build a completly new one, maybe similar to levo bike?

We discussed the idea of a box that we will place on the handlebar, because the RGB LED must be visible to the user. Also there must be 2 holes and a bit of space for the wiring of the 2 brake sensors.

 

[rananna]

I was expecting to recommend users to flash the bootloader without the battery connected, just like on TSZ2 wireless board, without connecting to display cable. What is best? I think we should stick with the same process for both.

Sure, consistency is good.
However, we need to emphasize that the battery CANNOT be connected while programming to avoid voltage conflicts.

 

[rananna]

I was expecting to recommend users to flash the bootloader without the battery connected, just like on TSZ2 wireless board, without connecting to display cable. What is best? I think we should stick with the same process for both.

Sure, consistency is good.
However, we need to emphasize that the battery CANNOT be connected while programming to avoid voltage conflicts.

also, remember we are advising the user to cut the solder bridges. This cuts the VDD connection.
Of course, the programming has to occur before this activity if we are relying on VDD.

This could be addressed in the documentation for both the remote and the motor boards by making the first step to be programming the dongle. This would be done before they mount on a PCB and do any soldering

 

[casainho]

I was expecting to recommend users to flash the bootloader without the battery connected, just like on TSZ2 wireless board, without connecting to display cable. What is best? I think we should stick with the same process for both.

Sure, consistency is good.
However, we need to emphasize that the battery CANNOT be connected while programming to avoid voltage conflicts.

Or would be better to use the own system voltage? that way the risk of mistakes would be less.

Also one less wire to solder, so, even less risk.

Does anyone see a problem to recommend flash using the system own voltage?

 

[rananna]

We discussed the idea of a box that we will place on the handlebar, because the RGB LED must be visible to the user. Also there must be 2 holes and a bit of space for the wiring of the 2 brake sensors.

In the Nordic dongle there are two LEDS; the RGB LED that is used for signalling normal operation modes, and the Green LED on the other side of the board, that is used for displaying any motor errors.
(The Green LED was just made to display errors in the latest firmware.)
Ideally, any mounting box would have two openings on the top to view both LEDS, and two openings (on both sides of the box) for the brake inputs. The dongle would be mounted on the underside to get the LEDS as close to the enclosure as possible.
I would think that adding lens covers for the LEDS would help visibility.
like: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32950445493.html?src=google&albch=shopping&acnt=708-803-3821&isdl=y&slnk=&plac=&mtctp=&albbt=Google_7_shopping&aff_platform=google&aff_short_key=UneMJZVf&&albagn=888888&isSmbAutoCall=false&needSmbHouyi=false&albcp=7386552844&albag=80241711349&trgt=743612850714&crea=en32950445493&netw=u&device=c&albpg=743612850714&albpd=en32950445493&gclid=Cj0KCQiAjKqABhDLARIsABbJrGk0ZVvndrYLvF4GSUxHjjEg_kO4_X0jEZqdHFbSP2FdFUDovtAK96waAo5eEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[casainho]

In the Nordic dongle there are two LEDS; the RGB LED that is used for signalling normal operation modes, and the Green LED on the other side of the board, that is used for displaying any motor errors.

Is not possible to simplify and use only the RGB LED, that are in fact already 3 LEDs? Seems strange to me the user need to look at 2 different places.

 

[rananna]

In the Nordic dongle there are two LEDS; the RGB LED that is used for signalling normal operation modes, and the Green LED on the other side of the board, that is used for displaying any motor errors.

Is not possible to simplify and use only the RGB LED, that are in fact already 3 LEDs? Seems strange to me the user need to look at 2 different places.

Yes, of course we could do that.
However, I did not want the error state indication to interfere with the normal LED display.
The error display would then dominate and not allow normal LED operation (like battery SOC, long press, config etc) to work well.
Since we have two LEDS, why not use them? The error indication should hopefully be very infrequent.
It is also a visual que to the user of an error to see the second LED light up.
However, If it is a packaging and/or cost issue we could put the error display on the RGB

 

[casainho]

In the Nordic dongle there are two LEDS; the RGB LED that is used for signalling normal operation modes, and the Green LED on the other side of the board, that is used for displaying any motor errors.

Is not possible to simplify and use only the RGB LED, that are in fact already 3 LEDs? Seems strange to me the user need to look at 2 different places.

Yes, of course we could do that.
However, I did not want the error state indication to interfere with the normal LED display.
The error display would then dominate and not allow normal LED operation (like battery SOC, long press, config etc) to work well.
Since we have two LEDS, why not use them? The error indication should hopefully be very infrequent.
It is also a visual que to the user of an error to see the second LED light up.
However, If it is a packaging and/or cost issue we could put the error display on the RGB

I think we should simplify. On the Android app for instance, I removed the display area that show motor errors and I plan to add it only as a pop up window when there are motor errors, that are very infrequent.
Maybe motor errors details can be seen on the mobile app and we can simplify the remote.
Maybe the only specific error for the remote is his own ANT connection? all other errors should be seen on the mobile app. But I agree that if system is not working for a reason, the remote should signal maybe with a blink RED or other blinks, so user understand and will see details on the mobile app. Note that the same reaction of the remote should happen on the wireless board!! Same board, same LEDs, the same information about the motor.

 

[Oli.Hall]

Hi Casainho and Rananna,

Well done on your project, I really like what you have achieved with this!
I have been following this project with interest as I am currently working on a similar project for another platform.

Regarding the power supply I am wondering if there is any other reason that you are keen on using these ebay DC-DC converters, other than the fact that they are cheap and easily available to all users worldwide?

I would recommend that you look at the range of SIL-8 DC-DC converters linked below. These are similar to one that Beemac said he is using for his build a few pages back. They are made in a standard form-factor which is miniaturised and ruggedised for industrial use. They are readily available from multiple manufacturers which ensures availability world-wide.

Here is a picture of one below next to a popular eBay module for a size comparison.
(n.b. The eBay module in the picture is actually an XL6009 35V buck-boost module. It is shown for size comparison as it is a similar size to the LM2596HV 60V buck module mentioned below.)




https://uk.farnell.com/tracopower/tec-2-4811wi/dc-dc-converter-5v-0-4a/dp/2854928
http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/2828585.pdf

The TEC-2-4811WI linked above is ideal for your project for the following reasons:
> At least 75% smaller by volume than your eBay converters
> Fully epoxy potted - vibration resistant and waterproof
> Continuous rated input 18V - 75V
> Continuous output 5V 400mA
> Fully regulated at all input voltages i.e. no minimum load is needed to maintain regulation and they are protected against switch-on voltage spikes.
> Absolute maximum 100V input. This is very important for transient voltage / spike protection. In comparison, the LM2596HV used in the popular ebay module can be damaged by transients above 63V which can regularly occur in a 48V 13S setup.
> Industry standard form-factor available from multiple manufaturers in the same spec and same pin-out: e.g. Traco-Power, XP-Power, TDK-Lambda etc. ensures availability world-wide.
> Having several named-brands of manufacturer that make this component ensures reliability and availability for DIYers

I know you are very keen on making this as easy as possible for DIYers to source parts and I think that these modules are easy enough to obtain in most markets and they have a lot of positives as an alternative to the ebay modules.

What do you think?

Thanks,
Oli.

 

[rananna]

I think we should simplify.
I agree that if system is not working for a reason, the remote should signal maybe with a blink RED or other blinks, so user understand and will see details on the mobile app.

OK.
I will give some thought on how to display motor errors, if at all.

In the Nordic dongle there are two LEDS; the RGB LED that is used for signalling normal operation modes, and the Green LED on the other side of the board, that is used for displaying any motor errors.
(The Green LED was just made to display errors in the latest firmware.)
Ideally, any mounting box would have two openings on the top to view both LEDS, and two openings (on both sides of the box) for the brake inputs. The dongle would be mounted on the underside to get the LEDS as close to the enclosure as possible.
I would think that adding lens covers for the LEDS would help visibility.
like: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32950445493.html?src=google&albch=shopping&acnt=708-803-3821&isdl=y&slnk=&plac=&mtctp=&albbt=Google_7_shopping&aff_platform=google&aff_short_key=UneMJZVf&&albagn=888888&isSmbAutoCall=false&needSmbHouyi=false&albcp=7386552844&albag=80241711349&trgt=743612850714&crea=en32950445493&netw=u&device=c&albpg=743612850714&albpd=en32950445493&gclid=Cj0KCQiAjKqABhDLARIsABbJrGk0ZVvndrYLvF4GSUxHjjEg_kO4_X0jEZqdHFbSP2FdFUDovtAK96waAo5eEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

so here is my modified answer:
Ideally, any mounting box would have one openings on the top to view the RGB LED, and two openings (on both sides of the box) for the brake inputs. The dongle would be mounted on the underside to get the LED as close to the enclosure as possible.
I would think that adding lens covers for the LED would help visibility.
like: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32950445493.html?src=google&albch=shopping&acnt=708-803-3821&isdl=y&slnk=&plac=&mtctp=&albbt=Google_7_shopping&aff_platform=google&aff_short_key=UneMJZVf&&albagn=888888&isSmbAutoCall=false&needSmbHouyi=false&albcp=7386552844&albag=80241711349&trgt=743612850714&crea=en32950445493&netw=u&device=c&albpg=743612850714&albpd=en32950445493&gclid=Cj0KCQiAjKqABhDLARIsABbJrGk0ZVvndrYLvF4GSUxHjjEg_kO4_X0jEZqdHFbSP2FdFUDovtAK96waAo5eEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Of course, an opening for the button cable has to be available in the enclosure as well.
Maybe waterproof connectors could be used for the brakes and button connections?

 

[frenchie]

I might pull the trigger on a TSDZ2 cos with the weak $ it works out less than 260€ delivery to Europe
Should I buy a 6 wire or an 8 wire?
Also any pros to going for a 36v motor over 48v? I want to run a simple battery pack to begin with, will try and cobble something together with batteries out of some powerbanks
Thanks and safe riding!

 

[rananna]

Hi Casainho and Rananna,

Well done on your project, I really like what you have achieved with this!
I have been following this project with interest as I am currently working on a similar project for another platform.

Regarding the power supply I am wondering if there is any other reason that you are keen on using these ebay DC-DC converters, other than the fact that they are cheap and easily available to all users worldwide?

I would recommend that you look at the range of SIL-8 DC-DC converters linked below. These are similar to one that Beemac said he is using for his build a few pages back. They are made in a standard form-factor which is miniaturised and ruggedised for industrial use. They are readily available from multiple manufacturers which ensures availability world-wide.

Here is a picture of one below next to the popular 60V LM2596HV eBay module for a size comparison.

tec-2-4821wi-3.jpgtec-2-4821wi-6.jpg

https://uk.farnell.com/tracopower/tec-2-4811wi/dc-dc-converter-5v-0-4a/dp/2854928
http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/2828585.pdf

The TEC-2-4811WI linked above is ideal for your project for the following reasons:
> At least 75% smaller by volume than your eBay converters
> Fully epoxy potted - vibration resistant and waterproof
> Continuous rated input 18V - 75V
> Continuous output 5V 400mA
> Fully regulated at all input voltages i.e. no minimum load is needed to maintain regulation and they are protected against switch-on voltage spikes.
> Absolute maximum 100V input. This is very important for transient voltage / spike protection. In comparison, the LM2596HV used in the popular ebay module can be damaged by transients above 63V which can regularly occur in a 48V 13S setup.
> Industry standard form-factor available from multiple manufaturers in the same spec and same pin-out: e.g. Traco-Power, XP-Power, TDK-Lambda etc. ensures availability world-wide.
> Having several named-brands of manufacturer that make this component ensures reliability and availability for DIYers

I know you are very keen on making this as easy as possible for DIYers to source parts and I think that these modules are easy enough to obtain in most markets and they have a lot of positives as an alternative to the ebay modules.

What do you think?

Thanks,
Oli.

I really like this choice.
seems to hit the specs and a good price as well!
(only $14 in Canada)
https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/traco-power/TEC-2-4811WI/9382466?s=N4IgTCBcDaICoFEDCACMBaALADgIy4HUBJEAXQF8g
@casainho, what do you think?

 

[casainho]

I really like this choice.
seems to hit the specs and a good price as well!
(only $14 in Canada)
https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/traco-power/TEC-2-4811WI/9382466?s=N4IgTCBcDaICoFEDCACMBaALADgIy4HUBJEAXQF8g
@casainho, what do you think?

Thanks Oli for the suggestion!! It seems clearly more robust.

That DC-DC is vailable on Ebay and costs to me 18€. On the only professional shop for electronics I can buy, costs also about 18€. So, maybe the best is to forget the idea of having a common DC-DC and let everyone choose the best fit for his budget. At least I hope we can agree on the remote, to have a common enclosure.

About the remote, I have a difficult that is the battery connection, as I can not solder the wires to the battery, what is the best cheap and small way to make the connection??

Should I buy a 6 wire or an 8 wire?
Also any pros to going for a 36v motor over 48v? I want to run a simple battery pack to begin with, will try and cobble something together with batteries out of some powerbanks
Thanks and safe riding!

If you buy 6 wires, you then can easily buy the 6 wires extension cable for the speed sensor, that will work for your wire to the wireless board -- this is what I do, I decided to use only 6 wires on all my ebikes.

I use 48V motors only, but do not ask here the reasons, use the other generic thread

 

[rananna]

About the remote, I have a difficult that is the battery connection, as I can not solder the wires to the battery, what is the best cheap and small way to make the connection??

I avoid soldering and use a surface mount coin cell holder like this:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32791160112.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dabB17n

 

[Filippods]

Please, could you make a sketch of the remote?

 

[rananna]

So, maybe the best is to forget the idea of having a common DC-DC and let everyone choose the best fit for his budget. At least I hope we can agree on the remote, to have a common enclosure.

I would be disappointed if we could not agree on a BOM that would allow for the design of a common 3D printed enclosure.
IMO, this increases the difficulty for users to adopt a wireless solution.
Alternatively, perhaps we could agree on a standard enclosure and associated BOM, and any user that has budget difficulties could design an alternative enclosure?

 

[beemac]

So, maybe the best is to forget the idea of having a common DC-DC and let everyone choose the best fit for his budget. At least I hope we can agree on the remote, to have a common enclosure.

I would be disappointed if we could not agree on a BOM that would allow for the design of a common 3D printed enclosure.
IMO, this increases the difficulty for users to adopt a wireless solution.
Alternatively, perhaps we could agree on a standard enclosure and associated BOM, and any user that has budget difficulties could design an alternative enclosure?

Unless you want the case to be as small as poss - standardise on one that isn't tiny so people can swap in one that's similar - and doesn't exceed the physical spec?