Luna M600 Ludicrous V2 reverse engineering and firmware making

[stancecoke]

VESC compatibility is basically a selling point nowadays.

Really?! It's a point of pain on an E-Bike. Nothing works out of the box, it's only feasible for freaks with deep knowledge. You don't even manage to get a simple digital break sensor work.
Any 20€ Kunteng can be set up by a newbie.

 

[TPEHAK]

Yeah, but I am not familiar with VESC stuff and we kinda designed it for different motor with different sensors. We did not have problems with LUNA controller reversing, it worked immediately. And that PulseDrive controller goes completely properly programmed and configured with all the functions working out of the box just like the LUNA controller and all you need to do is just plug and play. And if you need to change something you can do it through the VESC application with custom user interface just like LUNA does. So out of the box it is quite user friendly. And if you know the VESC stuff and want to mess with it you have such opportunity since it is open source.

 

[TPEHAK]

I don't know if he has published his code, how he makes the torquesensor work. If he has not published it, he still violates the open source rules...

Yeah, except this code was wrote by Benjamin Vedder himself and the controller was designed by the VESC team!

Luna M600 Ludicrous V2 reverse engineering and firmware making

Those are TVS diodes so it is protection from voltage spikes in those circuits. According to this discussion it looks like this controller uses only analogue signal torque sensor output and it does not use cadence sensor data. I do not know how it affects M560 or M600 motors...

endless-sphere.com

Now it makes sense why the VESC team did not post any information about the INNOTRACE controller reverse engineering process and firmware making and that's why they refused to post any instructions about the firmware installation after they were exposed! And that's why they closed the reverse engineering thread on the Discord after being exposed! It looks like mxlemming tested exactly that controller! And that PulseDrive controller is designed by the VESC Team! Maybe mxlemming himself designed it! That completely explains their behavior! Holy Cow!

 

[Exma]

How do you know it is not VESC based? Did you analyze it? As far as I know the VESC guys analyzed it and completely reverse engineered it and claim it is VESC based. I am sure they know what they are talking about if they were able to reverse engineer it. They even were able to create VESC firmware for the INNOTRCE controller!

I have no such privilege to post my own name on it. Only a few companies and individuals like INNOTRACE, VESC, Marcos, LUNA and Krasnodar have such privilege. You need to deserve it. VESC, Marcos and LUNA gave up this privilege, so now it is INNOTRACE and Krasnodar lucky day!

Alternatively we can call this controller EXFORCE M560 Open. Yes, nobody knows about the EXFORCE controllers and it is not going to be as attractive and INNOTRACE name, but doing so we will thank the former INNOTRACE guys and Krasnodar for their work, it looks like they work in EXFORCE now. And it also looks like EXFORCE has a controller for M560

EXFORCE M560 Controller inkl. Einbau | Exforce

Präzision und Qualität in Perfektion – Dein neuer eBike-MotorcontrollerErlebe die neueste Generation unseres eBike-Motorcontrollers – entwickelt für höchste Ansprüche an Qualität, Effizienz und Langlebigkeit. Dank modernster 6-Layer-Platinentechnologie überzeugt der Controller durch maximale...

www.ex-force.de

What do you think guys? I am sure Karsnodar will appreciate it because it will advertise his new company and his products (and it looks like he needs some advertisement because of there are still not a single review of his new controllers), and doing so we will thank him for creating INNORACE controller!

View attachment 382133

I am sure that every entrepreneur would like to decide for themselves how and where to advertise. No company wants to be mentioned in this way. This is ridiculous.

 

[Exma]

Because of nobody knows about EXFORCE and they desperately need advertisement. And we will name the controller EXFORCE M560 Open, the word "Open" clearly separates this controller from other EXFORCE products standing for the open source nature of this entity. EXFORCE are not going to call other their products "Open".

Basically what Krasnodar is stating in this post is they did use VESC firmware, but they used it for internal development of the INNOTRACE controller and have no obligations to share the VESC firmware they created for the internal usage which I guess is completely legal.

To be fair LUNA and Marcos have kinda similar crooked philosophy. They refuse to provide simplest support on their controller even if you own their controller but did not pay them $5000. So yeah, both entities are kinda ugly.

What is supposed to have been “exposed”? You yourself write that it was only for internal use of open-source code. Completely legitimate…
All this chatter makes you forget what it’s really about: the joy of riding! What and where you buy your motor or controller is entirely up to you, just as deciding what the fun of riding is worth to you.

 

[TPEHAK]

I am sure that every entrepreneur would like to decide for themselves how and where to advertise. No company wants to be mentioned in this way. This is ridiculous.

How do you know they do not want to be mentioned this way? If someone would put my name on their motor controller that would be cool! The problem is noone offers such thing. This is a unique opportunity!

INNOTRACE not only deserves it, but also we the people deserve it. We deserve to use their name if we want to, because of INNOTRACE failed to deliver what they promised. Therefore it is fair we claim their name and will do what they failed to deliver. We the people deserve to use INNOTRACE name more than INNOTRACE!

Another words, INNOTRACE deserves it because of they created such an amazing controller. And we deserve it because of INNOTRACE failed to deliver what they promised and we have to deal with it.

Krasnodar bankrupted INNOTRACE and now it frees them from delivering the promises we paid for? Fine! Now the INNOTRACE name is our and we will use it for our controllers!

 

[TPEHAK]

What is supposed to have been “exposed”? You yourself write that it was only for internal use of open-source code. Completely legitimate…
All this chatter makes you forget what it’s really about: the joy of riding! What and where you buy your motor or controller is entirely up to you, just as deciding what the fun of riding is worth to you.

Exposed means we accidentally discovered Benjamin Vedder works on finrmware for INNOTRACE controller while the VESC team kept it in secret.

 

[Exma]

How do you know they do not want to be mentioned this way? If someone would put my name on their motor controller that would be cool! The problem is noone offers such thing. This is a unique opportunity!

INNOTRACE not only deserves it, but also we the people deserve it. We deserve to use their name if we want to, because of INNOTRACE failed to deliver what they promised. Therefore it is fair we claim their name and will do what they failed to deliver. We the people deserve to use INNOTRACE name more than INNOTRACE!

Another words, INNOTRACE deserves it because of they created such an amazing controller. And we deserve it because of INNOTRACE failed to deliver what they promised and we have to deal with it.

Krasnodar bankrupted INNOTRACE and now it frees them from delivering the promises we paid for? Fine! Now the INNOTRACE name is our and we will use it for our controllers!

Careful with statements like that. You are casually implying that a specific individual is responsible for the insolvency. That is not a fact, but an unsubstantiated allegation.


There is a difference between being dissatisfied, speculating, and making public factual claims. That distinction matters in a public forum.

 

[TPEHAK]

Careful with statements like that. You are casually implying that a specific individual is responsible for the insolvency. That is not a fact, but an unsubstantiated allegation.


There is a difference between being dissatisfied, speculating, and making public factual claims. That distinction matters in a public forum.

Which individual? Do you know details? Tell us all you know!

 

[Exma]

Which individual? Do you know details? Tell us all you know!

You are abusing trademarks, spreading stupid nonsense about people you don’t know, and speculating about backgrounds you have no understanding of. Don’t you have anything better to do?

 

[TPEHAK]

You are abusing trademarks, spreading stupid nonsense about people you don’t know, and speculating about backgrounds you have no understanding of. Don’t you have anything better to do?

We are not abusing trademark. We deserve to use INNOTRACE name and INNOTRACE deserves to be praised. I already explained why. Prove opposite if you are disagree.

What nonsense I spread? You believe INNOTRACE guys would not be happy to be praised? You do not know them and we know them better then you do. How about that?

 

[Exma]

We are not abusing trademark. We deserve to use INNOTRACE name and INNOTRACE deserves to be praised. I already explained why. Prove opposite if you are disagree.

What nonsense I spread? You believe INNOTRACE guys would not be happy to be praised? You do not know them and we know them better then you do. How about that?

You always speak in the plural. From what I can see, you’ve been conducting monologues in various forums for months, regularly getting banned and ridiculed. As if it weren’t already obvious to everyone that you have no idea what you’re talking about…At some point, one of these developers won’t put up with you anymore. Then, good luck!

 

[TPEHAK]

You always speak in the plural. From what I can see, you’ve been conducting monologues in various forums for months, regularly getting banned and ridiculed. As if it weren’t already obvious to everyone that you have no idea what you’re talking about…At some point, one of these developers won’t put up with you anymore. Then, good luck!

So you have no arguments against us using INNOTRACE name? Am I right?

 

[Exma]

So you have no arguments against us using INNOTRACE name? Am I right?

Clearly impervious to reason. Discussion closed.

 

[TPEHAK]

Clearly impervious to reason. Discussion closed.

Closed? You mean you registered an account on this forum only to pop here for 7 posts and close the discussion? Do you really believe someone will take you seriously, especially you got no arguments? If you come here to argue you better be prepared better.

 

[TPEHAK]

OK, we just got contacted by Krasnodar and he basically said he does not want us to put EXFORCE name on the controller. Well, I guess he does no want to be advertised, good for him. He claims EXFORCE is a registered trademark, I did not find it. Do you think he lies again? Do you know if there is any link for such registration? I asked him to provide the registration for his trademark.

It looks like Exma is Krasnodar, lol.

I offered him to register on the forum if he is not Exma so we can discuss about the INNOTRACE situation and maybe you guys will have more questions for him.

 

[Exma]

OK, we just got contacted by Krasnodar and he basically said he does not want us to put EXFORCE name on the controller. Well, I guess he does no want to be advertised, good for him. He claims EXFORCE is a registered trademark, I did not find it. Do you think he lies again? Do you know if there is any link for such registration? I asked him to provide the registration for his trademark.

It looks like Exma is Krasnodar, lol.

I offered him to register on the forum if he is not Exma so we can discuss about the INNOTRACE situation and maybe you will have more questions for him.

As I said: good luck!
And no, I am not Krasnodar!

 

[TPEHAK]

As I said: good luck!
And no, I am not Krasnodar!

OK, are you someone who works for him? You are saying the same things at the same time. Coincident again?

 

[Exma]

OK, are you someone who works for him? You are saying the same things at the same time. Coincident again?

What kind of things am I even saying? That he won’t be happy about what you’re doing? I don’t need to work for him or even know him for that! That’s just common sense!

 

[TPEHAK]

What kind of things am I even saying? That he won’t be happy about what you’re doing? I don’t need to work for him or even know him for that! That’s just common sense!

Krasnodar is saying he does not want us to use EXFORCE logo. It looks like you want to tell the same, don't you? And you are the only one who is saying it in exact timing and the only one who registered an account just for this reason coincidently.

 

[Exma]

Krasnodar is saying he does not want us to use EXFORCE logo. It looks like you want to tell the same, don't you?

I have only said, like others in this thread, that it is not a good idea to use logos and trademarks of other companies and to make wild claims. I haven’t even explicitly mentioned EXFORCE.

 

[TPEHAK]

I have only said, like others in this thread, that it is not a good idea to use logos and trademarks of other companies and to make wild claims. I haven’t even explicitly mentioned EXFORCE.

OK, you forgiven. Let's hope the real Krasnodar will appear here so we can discuss with the real boss.

 

[TPEHAK]

The good news is it looks like the former INNOTRACE guys and Krasnodar do not care if we will use INNOTRACE name, which would be actually preferrable here. They did not even register it in Germany which is weird because of INNOTRACE is the big name in the electric bicycles industry.

 

[ivannnivano2000]

I came across a message saying that the 560 motor cannot even maintain the factory torque and needs to be modified for a larger overrunning clutch! So what's the point of a powerful controller if it can't handle the standard values!

 

[TPEHAK]

This is what probably LUNA does here to address that. I hope we will test the controller soon and we will see how it holds the torque