Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

[notger]

I hope you'll use the BMS too.
Cause i just recently destroied my 16s pack (or actually just one bank, but probably damage in other cells too)
Cause i followed the gossip that vtc4 cells are so stabil, that they do not need balancing.
So i postponed the bms connecting work on them, and cause riding was such fun, i did that for quite some weeks.
a few days ago "it" happened
"It" was probably a cell reversal in one cell wich took all their parallel sisters andbrother with her for sure.
And hopefully did not cause too much damage on the other banks

greets

notger

 

[Cowardlyduck]

I'm not keen on 'Battery Murdering Systems'.
I am a BMS cause I check cell voltages periodically. Doing it this way for 3+ years and hundreds of cycles without any issues so far.

Cheers

 

[ridethelightning]

glad you used the bosch brand hot glue, i first built a pack with cheapo stuff from mitre10, only to find that it would just snap apart with the lightest pressure or even jut by itself
had to redo the whole pack with the bosch stuff, what a pita.

Woah, this is info I didn't realise and I'm about to build a long pack for my commuter only held together by the glue.

Do you need a bosch glue gun or just the glue, and where do you get the glue?

Cheers

I used any old glue gun, but i got the bosch glue from bunnings in the same pack you have in the pic there. as i recall its not cheap @~30bucks a pack, the other crap stuff was more like $15 for same quantity i think, is slightly yellowish, crazez/cracks slightly when you bent the sticks.

the thing i notice about the the bosch glue which is whiter, is it stays much more flexible after it cools, and therefore sticks much harder.

 

[wannesd]

Guys, first of a long list of noob questions. I have a 20s 12p battery and would like some help on what I should be setting my upper and lower voltage cut-off to. Am also running the adaptto bms. Upper voltage 80v? Lower voltage, not really sure?

I keep seeing this tape in pack builds. Is this something special, and what is it used for?

 

[Quokka]

Guys, first of a long list of noob questions. I have a 20s 12p battery and would like some help on what I should be setting my upper and lower voltage cut-off to. Am also running the adaptto bms. Upper voltage 80v? Lower voltage, not really sure?

I keep seeing this tape in pack builds. Is this something special, and what is it used for?

I am no battery expert and this was my first ever pack. I had to build the pack from scratch due to the strange shape of my Qulbix q76r. The tape is a fibreglass reinforced packing tape. I used it to wrap around the P's to provide protection from chaffing. The tape is tough as nails. I pretty much copied a building technique from ride the lightning. With respect to the glue gun, you need a decent one that can lay down a lot of glue quickly so you can join up the p's. See the below pics- essentially I made a big jigsaw puzzle of cells and glued it all together. Can't wait to get the adaptto all hooked up and to hear it run for the first time

 

[ridethelightning]

im no battery expert either. I use the fiberglass tape as its much less likely to chafe or melt, causing the unimaginable incident where 2 p groups get a dead short. it makes a little gap between the groups, and holds stuff together well, as an extra insurance to back up the copius glue.

I would definately be using the adaptto bms with a pack like that, for if you had a dud cell in there it will tell you straight up. its not cheap, but a pack like that aint either
in the event of a dud cell, i saw Allex's solution of melting it out of the pack, on his bomber thread, seemed fairly painless.

best of luck with it! its going to be awesome.

 

[wannesd]

in the event of a dud cell, i saw Allex's solution of melting it out of the pack, on his bomber thread, seemed fairly painless.

Yeah, but that won't work with the P groups wrapped in this tape...

 

[wannesd]

Got a question regarding charging and throttle/regen input:

in the manual it states that you SHOULD NOT use the throttle or regen input whilst charging.
First of all: WHAT exactly would happen?

Secondly, why don't they just disable throttle and regen input when in charging mode?

 

[bigbore]

Got a question regarding charging and throttle/regen input:

in the manual it states that you SHOULD NOT use the throttle or regen input whilst charging.
First of all: WHAT exactly would happen?

Secondly, why don't they just disable throttle and regen input when in charging mode?

Would happen that your beloved controller will fly to Mosca for repair

With my custom PAS system the throttle is disabled while charging.

 

[notger]

Got a question regarding charging and throttle/regen input:

in the manual it states that you SHOULD NOT use the throttle or regen input whilst charging.
First of all: WHAT exactly would happen?

Secondly, why don't they just disable throttle and regen input when in charging mode?

Would happen that your beloved controller will fly to Mosca for repair

With my custom PAS system the throttle is disabled while charging.

so thats a huge bug in my opinion, i was asking myself the same question.
cause if its satans will a cat jumps on the throttle while charging, and that thing is damaged?
whattf
how does your custom pas throttle disabler work?
and can that be solved firmwarewise in the future?

greets

anit

 

[bigbore]

so thats a huge bug in my opinion, i was asking myself the same question.
cause if its satans will a cat jumps on the throttle while charging, and that thing is damaged?
whattf
how does your custom pas throttle disabler work?
and can that be solved firmwarewise in the future?

greets

anit

My pass disable the throttle if the pedals are not spinning and it works regardless of the throttle and the controller. Could be used with any type of controller. More details here:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=62650&start=150#p1029494
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=62650&start=150#p1032033
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=62650&start=150#p1033771
[youtube]PC9dw3Gknvo[/youtube]

 

[wannesd]

so thats a huge bug in my opinion, i was asking myself the same question.
cause if its satans will a cat jumps on the throttle while charging, and that thing is damaged?
whattf
how does your custom pas throttle disabler work?
and can that be solved firmwarewise in the future?

greets

anit

I charge at work, people will inevitably try to twist the throttle or pull the brakes when passing by. Murphy's law.
And since you can't charge with controller switched off, that's no option either...

 

[ccmdr]

wanned et all worriers - I agree with you, guys at work seem to be lured by the throttle especially when it's charging. A few times I've caught people before the twist, other times I catch sight of them from a distance, 'playing'. Although it has only been a few times nothing untoward or uncommanded has happened to the controller or bike, however with a little understanding of how the controller buck charges with the motor phases it is understandable why you shouldn't move the motor wheel whilst charging.

Having always locked the rear wheel securly to the shock & chain this maybe why I've been fortunate with the wannabe EVcowboys. You wouldn't refuel your vehicle with the engine running would you ?

If people are super cautious, whack a N/C switch/relay inline with the throttle/pas that activates with your charging switch/relay .

*Edit- Infact just a quick browse at the wiring diag the brown supplies + to both throttle and brake.

 

[bigbore]

so thats a huge bug in my opinion, i was asking myself the same question.
cause if its satans will a cat jumps on the throttle while charging, and that thing is damaged?
whattf
how does your custom pas throttle disabler work?
and can that be solved firmwarewise in the future?

greets

anit

I charge at work, people will inevitably try to twist the throttle or pull the brakes when passing by. Murphy's law.
And since you can't charge with controller switched off, that's no option either...

Cover it with a bike cover and put a sticker with the words "DANGER HIGH VOLTAGE"

 

[notger]

I'm not keen on 'Battery Murdering Systems'.
I am a BMS cause I check cell voltages periodically. Doing it this way for 3+ years and hundreds of cycles without any issues so far.

Cheers

Those were my words, until last week.
I used a pack made out of VTC4 cells and gossip was sayin they are indestructible and do not need balancing.

That might be true for packs below 10s, but is not valid for everything above 10s
Here this topic gets discussed and clarified (for me at least).
but it's in german
http://www.pedelecforum.de/forum/in...-akkuschaden-ein-fall-für-00akku.40779/page-2

so alittle example "Slingchiller" explained to me is

Discharging a 20s battery to 3,5 Volt idealy looks liek this

20 X 3,5V = 70 Volts LVC you look at the display see 70 Volts, so you can still feel safe with quite some buffer

But it also can look like this (even with VTC4 cells, and this is prooven in reality, also on my destroied pack)

19 X 3,6V + 1 X 1,6V = 70 Volts LVC you look at the display, feel safe, but you are on teh bay to kill this one bank with 1,6Volts soon

or worst case

19 X 3,68V + 1 X 0V = 70 Volts LVC You look at the display, and probably do not even see anymore that you have 70 Volts in your pack now cause you shorted a whole bank.

I was never believing in those worst case scenarios, until it happened last week to a 200cycles VTC4 16s Pack.

So i even had the chance to connect the adaptto BMS to the pack, but i thought its senseless.
But it might have safewd my pack from getting destroied.

 

[notger]

Cover it with a bike cover and put a sticker with the words "DANGER HIGH VOLTAGE"

Thats a good idea, but what about satan and the cats :?

Maybe "DANGER HIGH VOLTAGE; HOLY WATER; AND ANGRY DOGS"

but i like the idea of the relay-throttle-off while charging.
i could connect it to my speakon-charging-plug somehow, as soon i plug the speakon in the throttle relay is off.

great idea

gernot

 

[wannesd]

Or, you know, adaptto could disable those inputs with a firmware release...

 

[madin88]

Or, you know, adaptto could disable those inputs with a firmware release...

Honestly, i already gave up hope.
because from what i know Adaptto only focus on an entire new generation of controllers and do NOTHING for making the currently available Versions free of bugs.
If you flash latest FW, you will catch another new bug (throttle limits don't get saved after adjusting) and need to reflash with older firmware.
Since i got my Max-E (soon it will be 3 years ago), i already flashed the FW 10 times or more and it's still not free of bugs.

 

[bigbore]

Those were my words, until last week.
I used a pack made out of VTC4 cells and gossip was sayin they are indestructible and do not need balancing.

That might be true for packs below 10s, but is not valid for everything above 10s
Here this topic gets discussed and clarified (for me at least).
but it's in german
http://www.pedelecforum.de/forum/in...-akkuschaden-ein-fall-für-00akku.40779/page-2

so alittle example "Slingchiller" explained to me is

Discharging a 20s battery to 3,5 Volt idealy looks liek this

20 X 3,5V = 70 Volts LVC you look at the display see 70 Volts, so you can still feel safe with quite some buffer

But it also can look like this (even with VTC4 cells, and this is prooven in reality, also on my destroied pack)

19 X 3,6V + 1 X 1,6V = 70 Volts LVC you look at the display, feel safe, but you are on teh bay to kill this one bank with 1,6Volts soon

or worst case

19 X 3,68V + 1 X 0V = 70 Volts LVC You look at the display, and probably do not even see anymore that you have 70 Volts in your pack now cause you shorted a whole bank.

I was never believing in those worst case scenarios, until it happened last week to a 200cycles VTC4 16s Pack.

So i even had the chance to connect the adaptto BMS to the pack, but i thought its senseless.
But it might have safewd my pack from getting destroied.

I've been using LiPos from more then 10 years in RC stuff and mini electric scooters and I've been using the BMS of the Adaptto controller since last year when I bought the Bomber from Allex that was equipped with a 20S14P battery made with 18650 LG HE2. Both lipo and li-ion cells show an imbalance at the end of discharge so a cell level low voltage cut-off is a mast.

 

[notger]

I've been using LiPos from more then 10 years in RC stuff and mini electric scooters and I've been using the BMS of the Adaptto controller since last year when I bought the Bomber from Allex that was equipped with a 20S14P battery made with 18650 LG HE2. Both lipo and li-ion cells show an imbalance at the end of discharge so a cell level low voltage cut-off is a mast.

and the disbalance at the end is not even the problem, its the disbalance while demanding lots of amps while riding.
With BMS on, this will be detected and solfed in different ways (i hope)
but without constant control about the different bank voltages this could (in some cases, speciall high S or different types of Liion) cause a hughe voltage drop until shorting teh cells of a bank.

 

[Ohbse]

Or, you know, adaptto could disable those inputs with a firmware release...

They did. My throttle input is disabled while charge mode is active. Not on the latest, but close - from memory something G

 

[ridethelightning]

in the event of a dud cell, i saw Allex's solution of melting it out of the pack, on his bomber thread, seemed fairly painless.

Yeah, but that won't work with the P groups wrapped in this tape...

yes indeed, well spotted.
the tape will make it more difficult to say the least, especially in such a large confi block.

hot glue also gets more removable after ashort spell in the freezer :wink:

Those were my words, until last week.
I used a pack made out of VTC4 cells and gossip was sayin they are indestructible and do not need balancing.

That might be true for packs below 10s, but is not valid for everything above 10s
Here this topic gets discussed and clarified (for me at least).
but it's in german
http://www.pedelecforum.de/forum/in...-akkuschaden-ein-fall-für-00akku.40779/page-2

so alittle example "Slingchiller" explained to me is

Discharging a 20s battery to 3,5 Volt idealy looks liek this

20 X 3,5V = 70 Volts LVC you look at the display see 70 Volts, so you can still feel safe with quite some buffer

But it also can look like this (even with VTC4 cells, and this is prooven in reality, also on my destroied pack)

19 X 3,6V + 1 X 1,6V = 70 Volts LVC you look at the display, feel safe, but you are on teh bay to kill this one bank with 1,6Volts soon

or worst case

19 X 3,68V + 1 X 0V = 70 Volts LVC You look at the display, and probably do not even see anymore that you have 70 Volts in your pack now cause you shorted a whole bank.

I was never believing in those worst case scenarios, until it happened last week to a 200cycles VTC4 16s Pack.

So i even had the chance to connect the adaptto BMS to the pack, but i thought its senseless.
But it might have safewd my pack from getting destroied.

I've been using LiPos from more then 10 years in RC stuff and mini electric scooters and I've been using the BMS of the Adaptto controller since last year when I bought the Bomber from Allex that was equipped with a 20S14P battery made with 18650 LG HE2. Both lipo and li-ion cells show an imbalance at the end of discharge so a cell level low voltage cut-off is a mast.

Exactly.with the adaptto bms, it would never come to this as you would see one cell sag under load, and the v difference in p cell groups slowly increasing.

 

[Cowardlyduck]

A BMS is still a Battery Murdering System to me. I've had several instances where the BMS itself drained the cells it was trying to protect, and other instances where it just caused nothing but headaches.

There are other alternatives to keeping an eye on individual cell voltages also. I used to run my Fighter with little cell checkers like this:

The problem was, as you can see in the photo above, all cells in that photo were actually at 4V, but the cell checkers were out by a fair amount.

I might do this again, but I've not really seen the need to recently.

Cheers

 

[Offroader]

wanned et all worriers - I agree with you, guys at work seem to be lured by the throttle especially when it's charging. A few times I've caught people before the twist, other times I catch sight of them from a distance, 'playing'. Although it has only been a few times nothing untoward or uncommanded has happened to the controller or bike, however with a little understanding of how the controller buck charges with the motor phases it is understandable why you shouldn't move the motor wheel whilst charging.

Having always locked the rear wheel securly to the shock & chain this maybe why I've been fortunate with the wannabe EVcowboys. You wouldn't refuel your vehicle with the engine running would you ?

If people are super cautious, whack a N/C switch/relay inline with the throttle/pas that activates with your charging switch/relay .

*Edit- Infact just a quick browse at the wiring diag the brown supplies + to both throttle and brake.

I personally have my throttle signal wire on my throttle routed through the button on my throttle so I can shut the throttle on and off.

I also put the bike in ECO mode as a double safety. ECO mode I have set to have almost no power this way if I ever forget to disable the throttle the bike won't have much power in ECO mode.

 

[ridethelightning]

thats a really pretty shot CD!

I have had no issues with any of my adaptto bms units, i have used ~5 on several bikes over several years.

it was really handy when i built a pack of LG mj1 cells, 22s 10p, and saw over the first couple of weeks, one cell group just wasnt holding charge like the others.

for example the others may have been at between 3.983v and 3.990v, .007v difference, but one group was at 3.971 and falling...over several days, 3.960....3.959..3.955 etc etc.
while the others were stable.
the total difference between cell groups was growing on the bms cells screen.

balancing with the charger was not helping cause the dud cell was losing voltage at the same rate or more than the bms could lower the others.

it was pretty easy to go straight to that group , id the dud and remove it.

I like the adaptto bms cause its so reliable and gives the voltages so accurately.