Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

[Cowardlyduck]

Thanks for the kind words. yeah it looks nice, and it was nice to see voltage sag on a per cell basis....I guess it was an early version of the graph screen you now have on the Adaptto when using the BMS.
The LED checkers were just too inaccurate though, and I could never actually look at them closely enough during acceleration to see which cell groups were sagging more than others. They also liked to drain the first 2 cells slightly, which wasn't a problem if you only leave them connected when riding, but a bit annoying as it required more often balance charging.
I might still do it again as I have some more of the LED checkers which might not be as inaccurate, and it is still nice to see this info.

I think using a BMS is more valid when running high capacity 18650 built packs as you have a higher chance of failure running sooo many <3.5AH cans vs larger capacity LiPo setups.
I just recently got 8 x 10AH MultiStar packs to run in my Fighter. With only 4 bricks in parallel, the chance of one going bad unnoticed is a lot less IMO than with 10 or more 18650 cells in parallel.
That being said, a BMS is not going to stop a bad cell dragging a group down with it....it's just going to let you know if you happen to be paying attention to it. In notger's case, even if he had a BMS, if he wasn't keeping an eye on it and the bike was left sitting for a while, he could have just as easily lost that group of cells.
I guess my solution with the LED's is just the early warning part of a BMS without any cut off, etc...so the poor man's BMS

Cheers

 

[notger]

Or, you know, adaptto could disable those inputs with a firmware release...

Honestly, i already gave up hope.
because from what i know Adaptto only focus on an entire new generation of controllers and do NOTHING for making the currently available Versions free of bugs.
If you flash latest FW, you will catch another new bug (throttle limits don't get saved after adjusting) and need to reflash with older firmware.
Since i got my Max-E (soon it will be 3 years ago), i already flashed the FW 10 times or more and it's still not free of bugs.

that sounds like some "good ol gossipping", or where do those infos come from
it nearly sounds like you would have a secret informer in their labs.
and to the "NOTHING"
i mean adaptto just released a firmware this spring
(might be buggy too, but some troubles got solved)

is there any adaptto-new-generation-controller-rumor-discussion going on somewhere.
cause, if than it should be in here i guess
but sure i do not doubt that they go on with developement

 

[DasDouble]

Hey guys, my Adaptto Max-E is doing crazy since some days.. Maybe you can help me with this problem:

Before it was doing crazy, it worked just fine and I was able to ride about 9-10 kilometers, but after connecting the cables of my Tektro Dorado Brakes from Vector, it was like going absolutly crazy.. I have already checked together with my uncle, who is an electric-engineer, if I have connected some cables wrong, but he says that I did everything right.

So some little explaination: Everything worked fine for 9 kilometers.. Then I had less battery left, why I decided to install regen braking to save some energy (because my Eaton charger didn´t get delivered yet because german post didn´t do their homework). So then I installed the cables. After doing that I recognized, that I was only able to push the throttle, when pressing the brake button at the same time.. I hadn´t had my soldering iron with me and have been already on the half of the way, why I didn´t installed it back. So after riding to local bicycle store and installing my chain I rode back and let off from throttle and brake button at the same time, which caused a like ermergency braking. After this everything didn´t work anymore. I cut the cables from the throttle away, hoping that the throttle will work again, but nothing. I had to push my bike the last 500 meters back home, while my rear wheel was like already blocked a bit by the magnets. (To explain this blocking thing: It feld like every single magnet of the motor did not want to move. Like "going over this magnet" was hard, but then it was easy to push the bike untill the next magnet came).

My Vector half twist throttle gets recognized by the controller when doing calibration. But when I am out of the menu, means the normal display when riding, it is not working anymore. Just like it would not exist. Sometimes, and this "sometimes" is really annoying, it shows "protective" where it normally says "Eco, normal, boost", when twisting the throttle 50%. Also when I try to autodetect, sometimes the throttle works, sometimes not. If the throttle finally works, after resetting of the controller via <Setup>, etc. it says "Halls error 2", sometimes instead of "Halls error 2" it says "Halls error 1"... :| Another problem: Yesterday, after 5-6 hours of trying to fix this problem, the throttle finally got recognized, but not in this way that the wheel starts to spin, but that the wheel gets blocked just like giving extra energy into the motor so that the wheel can´t spin.. :? :|
I would really appreciate your help...

PS: When trying to charge the battery via 30A coil and laboratory charger with 20 volts, 30 amps, the motor sometimes starts to spin, while the charger goes really hard with the Ampere (up to 20 Amps), the volts still stay at 0-2 volts. Also I want to mention, that I have already switched the 6 hall sensors from the motor, but it still says "Halls error 2" and "..1". Also: I have already reseted my controller more then 2 times via <Setup> etc..

-Elias

 

[Allex]

Rip everything out and start from beginning, it sounds like you have a intermittent short somewhere.

 

[DasDouble]

Rip everything out and start from beginning, it sounds like you have a intermittent short somewhere.

I have already built everything out and in again. Nothing happened.. Maybe I have to send the controller back to base (Adaptto)? Or maybe the motor? Now is the question: Which one is kaputt? The motor or the controller? Don´t want to spend so much on shipping and to spend so much time again in building things out and in agai.. :|

 

[bigbore]

thats a really pretty shot CD!

I have had no issues with any of my adaptto bms units, i have used ~5 on several bikes over several years.

it was really handy when i built a pack of LG mj1 cells, 22s 10p, and saw over the first couple of weeks, one cell group just wasnt holding charge like the others.

for example the others may have been at between 3.983v and 3.990v, .007v difference, but one group was at 3.971 and falling...over several days, 3.960....3.959..3.955 etc etc.
while the others were stable.
the total difference between cell groups was growing on the bms cells screen.

balancing with the charger was not helping cause the dud cell was losing voltage at the same rate or more than the bms could lower the others.

it was pretty easy to go straight to that group , id the dud and remove it.

I like the adaptto bms cause its so reliable and gives the voltages so accurately.

+1 to that .... I've been monitoring cell group #2 since a while because it seems that if I let the bike at rest for some days that groups goes down but if I use the bike on a daily base it seems all ok.

Thanks for the kind words. yeah it looks nice, and it was nice to see voltage sag on a per cell basis....I guess it was an early version of the graph screen you now have on the Adaptto when using the BMS.
The LED checkers were just too inaccurate though, and I could never actually look at them closely enough during acceleration to see which cell groups were sagging more than others. They also liked to drain the first 2 cells slightly, which wasn't a problem if you only leave them connected when riding, but a bit annoying as it required more often balance charging.
I might still do it again as I have some more of the LED checkers which might not be as inaccurate, and it is still nice to see this info.

I think using a BMS is more valid when running high capacity 18650 built packs as you have a higher chance of failure running sooo many <3.5AH cans vs larger capacity LiPo setups.
I just recently got 8 x 10AH MultiStar packs to run in my Fighter. With only 4 bricks in parallel, the chance of one going bad unnoticed is a lot less IMO than with 10 or more 18650 cells in parallel.
That being said, a BMS is not going to stop a bad cell dragging a group down with it....it's just going to let you know if you happen to be paying attention to it. In notger's case, even if he had a BMS, if he wasn't keeping an eye on it and the bike was left sitting for a while, he could have just as easily lost that group of cells.
I guess my solution with the LED's is just the early warning part of a BMS without any cut off, etc...so the poor man's BMS

Cheers

If I were you CD, I would try the Adaptto BMS with lipo too. It saves your weakest cell under load while riding and you can see what's going on on the display.
I'm still using a 10S4P LiPo in my mini e-scooter that now has 3300Km and with it I've been using the Method's cell level LVC that cuts the throttle if one cell falls below 3V. I love that LVC and coupled with iCharger 1010B+ that charge and balance the cells at 4.15V I have a good reliable BMS system.

 

[notger]

Or, you know, adaptto could disable those inputs with a firmware release...

Honestly, i already gave up hope.
because from what i know Adaptto only focus on an entire new generation of controllers and do NOTHING for making the currently available Versions free of bugs.
If you flash latest FW, you will catch another new bug (throttle limits don't get saved after adjusting) and need to reflash with older firmware.
Since i got my Max-E (soon it will be 3 years ago), i already flashed the FW 10 times or more and it's still not free of bugs.

so, i got abot nervous about that, thats why i asked oleg, and as fast as usual he answered

I don't know who told this but this problem was already solved a long time ago.
All the modern firmware versions (at least starting from RC9d) do not contain this bug.

So no worries and don't trust such a silly gossips. They can be true only for somebody trying to use an ancient firmware which is not a good idea for any modern device.

Best regards,

so now its amatter of "trust" and in my experience i always got enormous fast and reliable answers to general, and technical questions about adaptto, so i trust quite alot in tje words of the adaptto guys (slime, kissass)

 

[aaronski]

I gotta second that. I've Had great support from them.
Shipped controller over for repair, warned me they were back logged, then fixed controller and shipped back to me.
Runs great.

 

[wannesd]

Or, you know, adaptto could disable those inputs with a firmware release...

Honestly, i already gave up hope.
because from what i know Adaptto only focus on an entire new generation of controllers and do NOTHING for making the currently available Versions free of bugs.
If you flash latest FW, you will catch another new bug (throttle limits don't get saved after adjusting) and need to reflash with older firmware.
Since i got my Max-E (soon it will be 3 years ago), i already flashed the FW 10 times or more and it's still not free of bugs.

so, i got abot nervous about that, thats why i asked oleg, and as fast as usual he answered

I don't know who told this but this problem was already solved a long time ago.
All the modern firmware versions (at least starting from RC9d) do not contain this bug.

So no worries and don't trust such a silly gossips. They can be true only for somebody trying to use an ancient firmware which is not a good idea for any modern device.

Best regards,

so now its amatter of "trust" and in my experience i always got enormous fast and reliable answers to general, and technical questions about adaptto, so i trust quite alot in tje words of the adaptto guys (slime, kissass)

I had the same answer from them, so that's great news!
Too bad the memory of current gen controllers is full to the brim, so no more new features...

Well, here's hoping to a next gen controller in the next year or so.
I'll be building a bike for my wife, so in that case she can inherit my mini-e

 

[steveo]

Hey Everyone,

I have a Adaptto max e installed on a friends ebike, and we are experiencing a bizarre problem..

when i set the tire size ratio above 110-120 (i need to set this at 150 to be accurate) .. and the motor poles to 12 -- (x5403 motor)

boost speed works good, as well as normal, however eco.. barley spins the wheel at 5-6km/h

the speed limiters are set to full speed/66kmh/32kmh

if i lower the speed ratio below 120 -- the speed is off but all the modes work!

has anyone had this bizarre problem? can anyone help to resolve this?

thanks

-steveo

You can try to experiment with SPD smooth values in the traction setup

Hey Allex,

I have tried what you suggested, do you have any other suggestions.

thanks
-steveo

 

[steveo]

I wanted to share a issue i am having with all my Adaptto controllers..

when i set the speed ratio with certain values.. usually about 130 + give or take.... and also start to use speed limiters in the eco/nomal/boost profiles.. say 33/66/99 km/h

i get some weird things happening.. sometimes the motor will not spin in certain profiles.. .. but if i lower the speed ratio .. its will work sometimes.. but speed will be totally off.. then other profiles will not work.. i've come to the conclusion this is software related or hardware related problem with the controller

i'm going to try to post a video soon.. to better explain

has anyone had this issue?

-steveo

 

[madin88]

is there any adaptto-new-generation-controller-rumor-discussion going on somewhere.
cause, if than it should be in here i guess

here is one discussion: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=71956

so, i got abot nervous about that, thats why i asked oleg, and as fast as usual he answered

I don't know who told this but this problem was already solved a long time ago.
All the modern firmware versions (at least starting from RC9d) do not contain this bug.

So no worries and don't trust such a silly gossips. They can be true only for somebody trying to use an ancient firmware which is not a good idea for any modern device.

Best regards,

so now its amatter of "trust" and in my experience i always got enormous fast and reliable answers to general, and technical questions about adaptto, so i trust quite alot in tje words of the adaptto guys (slime, kissass)

Yes the support of Adaptto is awesome in many ways, but it's a fact the engineers mainly focus on future generation of controllers instead of investing time to make current controllers FREE of bugs or more suiatable for daily usage.
During the last 3 years i had to deal with several bugs when setting up adaptto devices (8 controllers total so far). Everytime adaptto did respond in short time with release of a new firmware which is great, but there are still some annoying bugs and problems.

notger, you probabaly have right that "nothing" was a bit to hard worded from me, however please look at my personal summary of problems:

1 s.o.c. jumps to 0% if battery voltage sag to LVC (for instance when accelerating hard on 40% or lower s.o.c.). in such case you see 0% on the display while battery still contains 40% of juice
-> a soloution would be for instance if controller watches current, and if current is, for instance above 10A when battery sag to LVC, the s.o.c value should be left as it is instead of turning it down to 0%.
voltage sag is a normal thing every battery has, and as the power monitor of adaptto works different (compared to the CA for instance) it definitely should take it into account
2 for calculating s.o.c., the software includes both the value of Ah and Wh. this means that the values will get confused and the soc wont be accurate after some charge / discharge cylces (manual reset of statistics is necessary)
3 autodetect frequently doesn't finish sucessful. there can occur odd manner like vibrating motor and such strange things
4 the values you get with autodetect are often far off (making the motor to overheat in no time) and manual tuning is necessary
5 when connecting devices to the USB port, the backlight of the display gets darker (depending on the consumption of the device).
6 "active mode" (for braking down to 0kmh) apparently doesn't work properly what i recently noticed (motor can start to vibrate)
7 during charge mode, the controller can get damaged if one twist the throttle or e-brake
8 other weird things a few owners have...

point 1-5 will or cannot be fixed from what i know because it would take long time reprogramming or because of hardware (or lack of memory)
point 6 is very new and i stay in contact with adaptto about that.
though the first thing they suggested was that i should leave this function deactivated (because they know it's buggy from own experience), but having active braking was one of the main reasons i decided to use adaptto controllers because the vehicle don't has very strong mechanical brakes (it's a 2WD rickshaw)
point 7 WHY THE HELL they don't move theire asses and fix such BIG bug???

to not only writing about not so good things, attached pics belong to nice things

 

[wannesd]

7 during charge mode, the controller can get damaged if one twist the throttle or e-brake

point 7 WHY THE HELL they don't move theire asses and fix such BIG bug???

Here's what Oleg mailed me regarding this matter:

Dear Wannes,

If your controller is using the latest RC9g3 firmware then OF COURSE throttle and brake are disabled while charging.

Best regards,

 

[ridethelightning]

I thought it was also the case with rc9d/ rc9de, am i right?
cause there is no throttle response while charger is engaged.

 

[bigbore]

I have been using 5ml of ferrofluid in my QS205 from a weeek.
How should they be adjusted both DC and phase currents? I'm trying to reduce motor overheat and at the same time have the max power.
For example I rode for some days with DC Amps = 110 and phase Amps = 320. This way I can reach 130°C after about 4Km wot on flat tarmac road.
Today I changed at DC Amps = 120 and phase Amps = 300. After first ride of about 8km (my half daily commute to work) seems better than before but I need to wait for a night ride with no one on the street

 

[Wheazel]

I did get replies promptly when I emailed adapttos support email. Had troubles getting contact when going through the web form.
Oleg sent me a new firmware to fix the bug in the display that made the system forget brakesettings. That was fixed with a simple display reflash.
But the other problem with hesitation and sync loss during acceleration still occurs.

The old firmware that came with the controller never showed these signs, while both rc9e and rc9g3 does.
Anyone have a hypothesis to whats playing me a trick here?

Overall it feels like the newer firmwares are more "jumpy" compared to the more sluggish one that came stock.
Maybe these are some settings I havent fiddeled with that has different defaults for different firmware versions?
Any ideas?

 

[ridethelightning]

The old firmware that came with the controller never showed these signs, while both rc9e and rc9g3 does.
Anyone have a hypothesis to whats playing me a trick here?

sad to hear that. i have never had this issue with sync loss as you described.
perhaps its an issue with that particular unit?
maybe send for repair is best option now.

 

[madin88]

7 during charge mode, the controller can get damaged if one twist the throttle or e-brake

point 7 WHY THE HELL they don't move theire asses and fix such BIG bug???

Here's what Oleg mailed me regarding this matter:

Dear Wannes,

If your controller is using the latest RC9g3 firmware then OF COURSE throttle and brake are disabled while charging.

Best regards,

Thank you for making this clear! I have not seen this written somewhere in the FW changelog so i thought this bug is still present.
I never touched the throttle by try and error to avoid sending the controller to moscow. I mean, who would if you know the controller could suffer damage?

The biggest problem i have are the "weird things" that sometimes occur, like the vibrating motors (during autodetect and during normal operation after set up as well).
Because of that i have a bad feeling when lending vehicles to third party users.
I mean, either i know it works OR not, but i don't like the non-reproducible things between that sometimes happen and sometimes not (mostly referring the problem "active mode" for above 2WD setup).

 

[notger]

WHY THE HELL they don't move theire asses and fix such BIG bug???

I never touched the throttle by try and error to avoid sending the controller to moscow. I mean, who would if you know the controller could suffer damage?

The biggest problem i have are the "weird things" that sometimes occur, like the vibrating motors (during autodetect and during normal operation after set up as well).

Hi,
I also tried it today even though oleg already told me it wont do any harm to twist the throttel while charging.
NOTHING -> happeded, so with the newest (and all the older ones witch provide this bugfix) firmware its safe.

And that's what anoied me a bit on gossipping around things wich got fixed already.
For me as Adaptto first generation user, i accept that i do some pioneer tester work. but i also get quite some support priviledges in my impression

But sure, true is that the manual from 2014 cold get updated with the newest and fixed features.
But i rather let those adaptto guys work on improving the controllers than improving some papers.

@ madin88
What you told about vibratin while autodetect is normal in my autodetect i do.
After some shaky autodetects i have to change some individual settings and the motor runs smooth.
But i think you are running 2wd setups and i guess you collected losts of expereince like it sounds, so i guess you plied around with several setting changes ?

notger

 

[Offroader]

I have been using 5ml of ferrofluid in my QS205 from a weeek.
How should they be adjusted both DC and phase currents? I'm trying to reduce motor overheat and at the same time have the max power.
For example I rode for some days with DC Amps = 110 and phase Amps = 320. This way I can reach 130°C after about 4Km wot on flat tarmac road.
Today I changed at DC Amps = 120 and phase Amps = 300. After first ride of about 8km (my half daily commute to work) seems better than before but I need to wait for a night ride with no one on the street

How does the Ferro FLuid seem to be working compared to not having it?

What is your average and top speed when you are WOT on flat tarmac road?

 

[Wheazel]

The old firmware that came with the controller never showed these signs, while both rc9e and rc9g3 does.
Anyone have a hypothesis to whats playing me a trick here?

sad to hear that. i have never had this issue with sync loss as you described.
perhaps its an issue with that particular unit?
maybe send for repair is best option now.

I just cant get my head around what the problem could be that wouldn't show up on the older firmware, but make the new firmwares work bad.
In my book it would be far more logical, if there were some changes in the newer firmwares that made this occur.
As I described earllier, the newer firmwares also feels more "jumpy" or direct. The older one felt more sluggish.

It is very clear that pulling high throttle from a standstill or very slow makes the controller hesitate/lose sync.
When the bike is moving, it gets more and more unlikely that the controller hesitates when giving high throttle, the faster the bikes travels.
Just like if there is some torque treshhold to pass to lose sync.
I'll have to wait for a reply from Oleg and see if he has some more ideas.

 

[ridethelightning]

it could possibly be something to do with the wire resistance phc setting being slightly wrong.
have you tried applying a little brake at the start of autodetect?
also try with wire phc set to "yes" and "no", it may also help.
also, have you tried all different combos of the phase wires ? i have found some to be better then others.
i suppose youv tried system reset already.

being in Sweden, id be happier about sending my controller back. Being in Australia is very different postage wise i think.

 

[madin88]

And that's what anoied me a bit on gossipping around things wich got fixed already.
For me as Adaptto first generation user, i accept that i do some pioneer tester work. but i also get quite some support priviledges in my impression

It is nowhere written in the changelogs so from where we should know?
Normally if bigger bugs become fixed, they add this to the changelog (or make a posting in russia board).
Well, sorry for my misinformation.

Don't get me wrong, i never have said the support is bad.
I was one of the first Adaptto owners here in ES board and made them popular. I was impressed from the first day of use and pretty much never spoke anything bad about them.
At that time, which is almost 3 years ago, i accepted to deal with bugs and the fact to be a pioneer tester.
In case i had deal with a bug and informed adpatto about it, they usually corrected it quick and released a new FW.
Thats a great support!
However now, after three years and a big number of FW updates, i would expect to have a software that makes the controller to work how it should (all functions included), but it seems not to be.
I'm no expert, but i believe most of mentioned things could be fixed by reprogramming the FW (without changing the hardware), but it seems like they rather focus to develope future products.
Thats great for every future owner, but not so nice for owners of current controllers.

@ madin88
What you told about vibratin while autodetect is normal in my autodetect i do.
After some shaky autodetects i have to change some individual settings and the motor runs smooth.
But i think you are running 2wd setups and i guess you collected losts of expereince like it sounds, so i guess you plied around with several setting changes ?

If you start autodetect, the motor first makes 3 times "klock" (for measuring phase and hall allocation), than controller is spinning it at low PWM and adjusts the angle_corr. After that (the third step) the motor should spin at high RPM (about 70% PWM) for adjusting ind_timing and here comes the problem: it abrupt stops rotating and makes a loud vibrating noise.
It's not the first time i had to deal with that and it happened with differnt kind of hub motors.

does anyone know the reason for that or how to avoid this, or does it belong to the "strange, unreproducible things"?

 

[madin88]

It is very clear that pulling high throttle from a standstill or very slow makes the controller hesitate/lose sync.
When the bike is moving, it gets more and more unlikely that the controller hesitates when giving high throttle, the faster the bikes travels.
Just like if there is some torque treshhold to pass to lose sync.
I'll have to wait for a reply from Oleg and see if he has some more ideas.

A sensored controller should not use sync. Thats the reason why hall sensors are installed in permanent magnet BLDC motors

 

[brumbrum]

[/quote]
If you start autodetect, the motor first makes 3 times "klock" (for measuring phase and hall allocation), than controller is spinning it at low PWM and adjusts the angle_corr. After that (the third step) the motor should spin at high RPM (about 70% PWM) for adjusting ind_timing and here comes the problem: it abrupt stops rotating and makes a loud vibrating noise.
It's not the first time i had to deal with that and it happened with differnt kind of hub motors.

does anyone know the reason for that or how to avoid this, or does it belong to the "strange, unreproducible things"?[/quote]


^^
This is what happened on my cromotor on the very first autodetect, which also ended with a puff of smoke coming out of the controller. 4 clicks forward to recognise halls/phase, then slow rotation for angle correction, then very fast (too fast if you ask me, iirc the display logged 70mph which is NOT cruising speed as suggested when doing a manual setup and not autodetect)followed by very sudden abrupt stop and the puff of smoke. I know there is at least one other forum user... ccmdr? I think, that this has happen to(without the smoke). It has completely put me off ever trying an autodetect again. i would love to know why it happens. The only thing that comes to mind is that perhaps the throttle is not set properly, i could not get the throttle curve page to show up when i first had my controller.