EEStor ultracapacitor

[dak664]

The stored energy is 1/2C*V*V, so you'd need 4x the farads at half the voltage. At a "modest" 350 volts they would store only 1% of the energy. I'd wait for the patents on high-voltage DC-DC converters before I'd get excited.

 

[tostino]

The stored energy is 1/2C*V*V, so you'd need 4x the farads at half the voltage. At a "modest" 350 volts they would store only 1% of the energy. I'd wait for the patents on high-voltage DC-DC converters before I'd get excited.

I was about to say the same thing in regards to capacitance.

And I wholly agree about the DC converters. I have no idea how they are going to make a converter that will work, and be efficient at that range of voltages! That is way beyond me.

 

[swbluto]

The stored energy is 1/2C*V*V, so you'd need 4x the farads at half the voltage. At a "modest" 350 volts they would store only 1% of the energy. I'd wait for the patents on high-voltage DC-DC converters before I'd get excited.

I have no idea how they are going to make a converter that will work, and be efficient at that range of voltages! That is way beyond me.

IGBT's + High voltages = high efficiency.

The high-voltage capacitors needed can be derived from their very own capacitors, har har.

A multi-bridge design also cuts down on the voltage each switch would see, so you can the voltage down to tolerable limits for the switch and other components.

 

[317537]

Okays.

You would have to think that with inventions comes new components. New insulators based on this technology, new higher voltage filter caps. Even

Look if we can make hand held stun guns that drop people in seconds pushing an ebike shouldnt be a far stretch of the mind. Energy contained just needs to be dispersed slowly.

http://ixdev.ixys.com/DataSheet/99385.pdfThis is a transistor that does 4000v at 40A 170A pulsed. Not a fet though, still checking the data.


http://www.pwrx.com/pwrx/app/HighPwr.pdf

Abstract:
Ultra high power, high voltage, power electronics is on the verge of a new era. Two new power
semiconductor technologies, the high voltage IGBT and the GCT (Gate Commutated Thyristor) are
improving the performance, simplifying the design and increasing the reliability of applications ranging
from 100's of KVA to many MVA. This paper will discuss the characteristics and application
considerations of these revolutionary new technologies.


2. Applications
The following discussion will focus on power semiconductor devices for applications operating at
output power levels in excess of 100kVA. Generally speaking these applications are more specialized
and considerably less common than lower power applications. Some of the most well known applications
include: Propulsion inverters for mass transit and locomotives, high power industrial drives for steel and
paper mills, and utility power conditioning, including static VAR compensation and flexible AC
transmission. In these applications, limited power device capabilities often force the use of circuit
topologies such as cycloconverters and current source inverters that have limited performance. Many of
these applications could benefit in terms of efficiency and control accuracy through the use of a voltage
source topology. In applications operating from AC line voltages of 600VAC and less, IGBTs with
blocking voltage ratings of up to 1400V have provided an efficient low cost means of constructing high
performance voltage source inverters. In higher voltage applications GTOs (Gate Turn-Off thyristors)
have been used but their limited switching frequency of 300Hz or so, offers little advantage when
compared to other circuit topologies. Clearly, a higher performance, high power semiconductor device is
needed. Today, newly commercialized high voltage IGBTs with blocking voltages to 3300V and GCTs
with blocking voltages to 6000V have been developed to address these requirements.

From what I'm seeing with some quick google searches the tech has every chance in the world of being doable.

 

[liveforphysics]

They've all ready got the step-down modules. 1 module per cap. They output 20A at 144v over a range of cap voltage between 3500v down to 700v if my memory is correct. This was for a little 1.5kwhr module. For an E-bike, it would be nice to have perhaps 6 of them with the 144dc outputs all tied together. 120amps @ 144v with 9kwhrs and as totally regulated 144v, so the performance at the beginning of your ride is the same as at the end of your ride. And yes, for someone not wanting 144v, I'm sure they will make lower voltage models as well, these figures are simply from a tech paper I was reading about the system a year ago.

 

[MitchJi]

Hi,

You would have to think that with inventions comes new components. New insulators based on this technology...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EEStor#Permittivity

Permittivity

EEStor reports a large relative permittivity (19818) at an unusually high electric field strength of 350 MV/m; this would allow the EEstor capacitors to operate at high voltages, allowing them to store more energy than other capacitors. In such a strong electric field, the permittivity usually decreases due to a phenomenon called dielectric saturation, or the dielectric may break down, causing a short circuit between the capacitor electrodes. EEStor's US Patent No. 7466536 contains relative permittivity data averaging 19,818 at a field strength of 500 MV/m.[4] The EEStor patents[10] ascribe their combination of permittivity and high breakdown voltage to the sintering process used to combine the PET plastic, Aluminum Oxide and composition-modified Barium Titanate. This high permittivity in a very strong electric field is the basis for EEStor to claim in their patent[10] energy density of 2526 MJ/m3 (52 kWh or 188 MJ, in a package 4541 cubic inches, or 0.0744 m3). Northrop Grumman filed a patent application in 2006 that theorized similar permittivity and energy density are possible with a different Perovskite-type dielectric.[26] BASF filed a patent application in 2003 that theorized energy densities twice as high are possible.US patent 7023687

The EEStor patents[10] cite a 1993 article [27] and a Philips Corporation year 2000 patent[28] as exact descriptions of its "calcined composition-modified barium titanate powder." In the Philips patent, this material is more precisely identified as "doped barium-calcium-zirconium-titanate". The Philips patent reports a permittivity of up to 33,500 at 1.8 MV/m. The Philips patent does not report the permittivity at a high electric field strengths, but it states it has "a low voltage-dependence," - i.e. that dielectric saturation had only a minor effect. Replacing some of the barium with calcium broadens the optimum temperature range, and replacing some of the titanium with zirconium increases the permittivity. The other doping reduces the Curie temperature, Tc, that allows the peak permittivity to be at 85 °C. EEStor uses an aluminum oxide coating on the barium titanate grains that was not used in the capactors the Philips patent describes.

An EEStor patent[10] references a 2001 patent[29] that uses similar coatings on sub-micrometre particles of modified barium titanate. Under one set of conditions, they achieved a permittivity of only 2400 and did not report the permittivity at high voltages. Their breakdown voltage was 4 times less, a little over 100 MV/m.

EEStor says that purified aluminum oxide, in the range that EEStor, Inc. has certified, can have a voltage breakdown of 1,100 MV/m. The target working voltage of EEStor's chemical processes is at 350 MV/m. [30]

In addition, the July 29, 2008 press release[30] states that the plastic matrix allows for better crystal polarization and that this "along with other proprietary processing steps provides the potential of a polarization saturation voltage required by EEStor, Inc." Polarization by a strong electric field is done in the final steps of manufacturing so that the material will form domains that are oriented in the proper direction for the best permittivity and energy storage. The patent[10] states this is done at 180 C with 4000 V.

EEStor's US patent 7033406 mentions aluminum oxide and calcium magnesium aluminosilicate glass as coatings,[3] although their subsequent US patent no. 7466536 mentions only aluminum oxide.[4] Nickel was mentioned in the earlier US patent as the electrode but the later patent suggests that aluminum (1 micrometre thick) would be a better and less expensive alternative. As stated in the patents, both changes were made possible by selecting the PET matrix (or coating) because it is pliable enough to fill voids at only 180 C.

On April 22, 2009, EEStor announced completion of third-party certification of the relative permittivity by Texas Research International's Dr. Edward G. Golla, PhD., Laboratory Director. He certified that the Composition Modified Barium-Titanate Powders have met and/or exceeded a relative permittivity of 22,500[17] over a temperature range of -20 to 65 degrees celsius.[31]

There is some confusion as to whether Dr. Golla actually did the permittivity tests himself and with his own equipment, or merely witnessed the tests done by EEStor personnel with EEstor's testing equipment. Dr. Golla was at EEStor as an independent consultant hired by EEstor and did not represent Texas Research International.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permittivity

Permittivity is a physical quantity that describes how an electric field affects, and is affected by, a dielectric medium, and is determined by the ability of a material to polarize in response to the field, and thereby reduce the total electric field inside the material. Thus, permittivity relates to a material's ability to transmit (or "permit") an electric field.

It is directly related to electric susceptibility. For example, in a capacitor, an increased permittivity allows the same charge to be stored with a smaller electric field (and thus a smaller voltage), leading to an increased capacitance.

 

[swbluto]

Hi,

Since EEStor has applied for a UL listing, once that is granted then things will heat up with the tech.

Things will heat up when they produce a working prototype and demonstrate they can affordably mass product them. (They claim the only potential issues are mass production and that they are in the process of building a production line.)

Having a working prototype would be good enough for me. Having an "affordable mass produced" unit is relative, and I think something like this would be worth many times that of an expensive lithium battery of the same energy content.

I know that once a working prototype is produced, competitors will arise to match the product (eeventually) since the competitors will then know it's possible to make, and we can all look forward to at least a minimally guaranteed future.

 

[MitchJi]

Hi,

Having a working prototype would be good enough for me. Having an "affordable mass produced" unit is relative, and I think something like this would be worth many times that of an expensive lithium battery of the same energy content.

I know that once a working prototype is produced, competitors will arise to match the product (eventually) since the competitors will then know it's possible to make, and we can all look forward to at least a minimally guaranteed future.

It might be worth many times more but an Ebike pack priced $5k to $10k or an BEV pack for $50k to $100k would have a somewhat limited appeal.

Eestor states that producing the material on an assembly line vs in a lab is a "Key Production Milestone".

Mass production at "99.9994 purity" sounds critical to me.

BTW notice the date (2007) :

http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/Eestor-Inc-631210.html

EEStor Announces Two Key Production Milestones: Automated Production Line Proven and Third Party Verification of All Key Production Chemicals Completed

CEDAR PARK, TEXAS--(CCNMatthews - Jan. 17, 2007) - The first EEStor, Inc. automated production line has been proven to meet the requirements for precise chemical delivery, purity control, parameter control and stability.

In addition, EEStor, Inc. has completed the initial milestone of certifying purification, concentration, and stability of all of its key production chemicals notably the attainment of 99.9994% purity of its barium nitrate powder.

The independent 3rd party chemical analysis was completed by Southwest Research Institute, Inc. located in San Antonio, Texas under contract with EEStor, Inc.

With these milestones completed, EEStor, Inc. is now in the process of producing on its automated production line, composition-modified barium titanate powders and is moving toward completing its next major milestone of powder certification.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007/01/eestor_announce.html

EEStor Announces Two Key Production Milestones; 15 kWh EESU on Track for 2007
17 January 2007

EEStor, the developer of a new high-power-density ceramic ultracapacitor (the Energy Storage Unit—EESU), has broken a long public silence and announced reaching two key production milestones. First, its automated production line has been proven to meet the requirements for precise chemical delivery, purity control, parameter control and stability.

Second, EEStor has completed the initial milestone of certifying purification, concentration, and stability of all of its key production chemicals—notably the attainment of 99.9994% purity of its barium nitrate powder.

The independent 3rd party chemical analysis was completed by Southwest Research Institute, Inc. located in San Antonio, Texas under contract with EEStor, Inc.

With these milestones completed, EEStor is now in the process of producing composition-modified barium titanate powders on its automated production line, and is moving toward completing its next major milestone of powder certification.

 

[317537]

A lot has happened before and since 2007.

Certification I believe is to do with testing their ability to produce chemical components consistently and reliably so that any device made behaves predictably across the board. You have to think that 3.5 K volt storage unit under mass production needs to be safe. Another certification one is based on a test on something that resembled a device.

They believe that every obstacle other than production has been overcome.

Eestor state they will release a few more patents and are being quiet about the advances until they are capable of production line status. In this day and age this is wise as some investors may desire a chance to develop their ability to mass produce before the cat is let out of the bag. The venture investors alone need a chance to regain their capitol before outsiders should be allowed licenses to compete. The investors are not going to be able to supply the whole world with ESU's, but compete against the world and you lose your investment.

I guess its the way eestor has accepted investors that play in the field of producing ev's and ev components may be why some are concerned as to eestors claims.

I’ve read into this moderately and it does seem eestors has covered these concerns but it seems eestor unsatisfied some sceptics regarding eestors understanding of the barriers an ultracap battery face. The question is, are the unsatisfied few reaching to understand the research for their own gains or is there real concerns for the investors.

Id say there is a bit of both going on and Eestors desire to keep things under the hood for the excusive the rights contracts drawn up for the venture investors is what is raising the alarm bells.

If eestor fail I would guess its not going to be too long before another company will succeed. Energy density reaches a density at an atomic level (mass) in fusion reaction of H to 645,000,000 Mj/kg and fission to 337,000,000 Mj/kg. that’s mega joules per kilogram.

Energy is all the same in theory as its all electrical reactions that produces heat in the end. Eestor claims are kitten in comparison. I read 1 Mj/m2 and that a lot more than a kilogram.

This is why I love physics over chemistry as chemistry does not explain even simple mass in motion.

 

[317537]

http://www.zenncars.com/media/documents/allcarselectric.pdf

EEStor VP Says EESUs to be Delivered by End of 2009
By Lyle Dennis, Editor-in-Chief, June 1st, 2009
The drama that is EEStor continues to unfold. The secretive company is known
to be working on developing a radical new type of battery that offers several
times the energy storage at a fraction of the size and weight of modern day
lithium ion batteries. The material would theoretically have several times the
lifespan as well as it isn't subject to the type of degradation lithium-ion is.
The small Canadian firm Zenn Motor Cars is a a partial owner of EEStor and has
an agreement to use the new batteries in its Zenn City electric car as well as to
develop the ZENNergy drive powertrain that can be retrofitted into other vehicles.
Zenn has been waiting for working prototypes since at least 2007, but thus far
none has been delivered. Recently, EEStor was able to prove that its material
had the permittivity required to allow its fantastic properties and did so over a
wide temperature range. Its voltage range and leakage current is not yet known
publicly. Nonetheless, based on this data, Zenn chose the option of increasing
its investment and stake in the company.
In a brand new interview with Tom Weir, who is VP of EEStor, the next steps for
EEStor are laid out.
"Our objective is to complete component testing by September 2009, " says
Weir. "In parallel, we will be finalizing our second objective which consists of the
assembly processes necessary to deliver production quality components and/or
EESU's by the end of 2009."
So there you have it, EEStor has promised to delivered production quality
materials within six months.
The world is waiting.
Source (Bariumtitanate.blogspot.com)

 

[paultrafalgar]

Pirandello wrote a play called "Six characters in search of an Ultracapacitor" wasn't it?
And Samuel Beckett wrote one called "Waiting for EEStor"
That's right isn't it?

 

[Link]

and deliver the first working units to Zenn in the 4th quarter of this year.

*readies stamp of legitimacy...*

 

[317537]

Yes I was reading the various articles around UL's involvment. Seems pretty significant to me.

Its ironic that a texas company is responsible for the development of the technology and maybe a god send. this could really have an effect on those texas oil wells, it's almost fitting that this is being pursued by texans.

 

[liveforphysics]

I wonder if there is a direct trend in battery company stock prices dropping every time EEStor makes a new press release.

I will be over joyed the moment a single EEStor prototype is verified to perform as claimed. We worked the numbers on it here, and it's definitely possible to accomplish what they claim. It will be great to see all battery technology made obsolete over night, along with the mouths of all the doubters being silenced finally.

 

[317537]

I wonder if there is a direct trend in battery company stock prices dropping every time EEStor makes a new press release.

I will be over joyed the moment a single EEStor prototype is verified to perform as claimed. We worked the numbers on it here, and it's definitely possible to accomplish what they claim. It will be great to see all battery technology made obsolete over night, along with the mouths of all the doubters being silenced finally.

It wont be overnight but it will happen. Batteries will never be obsolete but much less required, Batteries will no doubt have their field where reliable chemical electrical energy is required, caps once they are flat thats it. You know a good old sla will power give up little more power when left to rest.

Honestly is this going to be the end of chemical batteries?

Their use will seem pretty redundant when an good ESU hits the market. Just the fact you dont need to replace them will be the selling point even for off the grid solar applications.

 

[paultrafalgar]

You notice the dateline on that report is Sept 18th 2009 and they say:
"EEStor founder Richard Weir has said the company plans to announce third party certification of the product by the end of this month". So I assume that has happened by now...
How much do you bet it hasn't?

 

[SpeedEBikes]

I sure wouldn't hold off buying a bicycle battery system today waiting for EESTOR. Even if they announced tomorrow that they were giving them away free, what are you going to do with it? They operate at something like 3500 volts. They are currently focused on building 52kwh modules for cars. These will have a built in buck-boost converter to enable charging and discharging them. It could take a long time before a bike sized module is made.

 

[MitchJi]

Hi,

It will be great to see all battery technology made obsolete over night, along with the mouths of all the doubters being silenced finally.

It would also be great (still not totally convinced) to see my Zenn stock drastically increase in value.

They operate at something like 3500 volts. They are currently focused on building 52kwh modules for cars.

http://www.lightevs.com/index.html

Light Electric Vehicles Company (LightEVsâ„¢) intends to provide electric two and three wheel vehicles, as well as electric propulsion system products, all using advanced power packs from EEStor, Inc. under our exclusive worldwide technology agreement with them. Our objective is to make better quality light electric vehicles available to the world market at more affordable prices. We expect these vehicles to compete directly with petroleum powered two and three wheel vehicles, and to also eventually replace similar electrically powered products which currently use electrochemical batteries. More information will be posted to this web site as progress is made toward introduction of the EEStorâ„¢ technology.

Vehicle manufacturers of two and three wheel vehicles, interested in using this technology, should contact us via the addresses and/or phone number indicated above.

 

[317537]

I am not sure about the validity about this but information about this device is slowly starting to flow.


http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pEnioTeVjYbbe854j3mXOOQ

View attachment eestor.JPG

19,848 permitivity confirmed @ 5000v @ 85c. If this document is accurate they have nailed it like they claim. Welcome to the 21st century where that Stargate Atlantis ZPM is not too far from a reality.

If anyone can expose this as fraud please do.

 

[liveforphysics]

If they can roll out a product, any product at all using this technology, it's the end of people saying why EV's aren't practical. It's also time for everyone to sell off any A123 (or other battery company) stock if they happen to have any...

 

[317537]

Doh I should of researched this better. This wasnt done by Eestor.

This was drawn up from a patent of a similar device somewhere that has the above results.



http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/fetch....1322545&IA=US2005028970&LANG=ENG&DISPLAY=DESC

 

[317537]

Oh well this thread is a bit of a dud so I thought I'd make up for it with this. It's not as good.

http://www.polarity.net/News

2009 Awarded contract from EESTOR to integrate Polarity’s high power HV to LV converter into EESTOR's EESU that will be used in Zenn Motor Company’s small to medium size electric car.

at least another piece of the puzzle is in place.

 

[DISH]

I ran across a recorded interview with Dick Weir, CEO of EEStor.

I'm starting to think there is a reason for the recent price drops in Li-Po and Li-Ion technology. Perhaps a new technology is in the immediate future. And CEO Dick Weir says the first thing to hit the market using this technology will be electric bicycles. And he explains why in the following interview.

Electric bicycles / trikes mentioned in the interview at time 27:33 to 28:45.

Cost is expected to be about the same as lead acid batteries and they are said to never wear out, which is why many are dumping any stocks they own in Li-Po / Li-Ion battery companies.

http://www.k3pgp.org/!_!/Dick_Weir_CEf_EEstor_jun_2009.mp3

^^^ Approx. 18 MB file...

 

[paultrafalgar]

http://theeestory.com/topics/4459

 

[gogo]

Even if this does not see the light of day, I still admire the skill with which this bubble has been so carefully constructed.