JP spot-welder, FET-switched, timed adj. pulse
- Thread starter okashira
- Start date
okashira
10 kW
We're not exactly sure, but a well known forum member is running an analysis on them to find out.
They are not regular LiFe, the voltage profile is not right. My guess is some crazy combo of Fe and Mn.
They are rectangular cells with screw terminals with a usable OCV of 2.4V - 3.35V, 0.001 Ohm DCIR, 23 Ah capacity. Perfect for the spot welder.
They are made in Japan by Blue Energy / GS Yuasa.
They are not regular LiFe, the voltage profile is not right. My guess is some crazy combo of Fe and Mn.
They are rectangular cells with screw terminals with a usable OCV of 2.4V - 3.35V, 0.001 Ohm DCIR, 23 Ah capacity. Perfect for the spot welder.
They are made in Japan by Blue Energy / GS Yuasa.
eleven6
1 W
Riba (anyone),
I setup my welder for the first time and ran into some trouble. I'm not an electronics whiz, so I could really use some help troubleshooting.
I got the welder connected directly to the negative lead of a 12V 490A car battery holding a charge at 12.9V. I've tried 2 power supplies, the first a 12V 750mA output, then the second a 15V 3.0A output. In both cases, the red LED illuminates; however, when I put the welder leads to the test battery/nickel strip and hit the footswitch, nothing happens. Well not exactly nothing, I hear a faint but audible click from the welder board in addition the the normal click from the foot pedal which doesn't occur when the welder leads are not making contact with a conductive surface. I've tried adjusting the potentiometer through the whole range to no affect. That's about it, I'm stumped as to what to do, any advice? I hope I'm just forgetting something dumb here.
Attaching pictures of my setup for reference:
I setup my welder for the first time and ran into some trouble. I'm not an electronics whiz, so I could really use some help troubleshooting.
I got the welder connected directly to the negative lead of a 12V 490A car battery holding a charge at 12.9V. I've tried 2 power supplies, the first a 12V 750mA output, then the second a 15V 3.0A output. In both cases, the red LED illuminates; however, when I put the welder leads to the test battery/nickel strip and hit the footswitch, nothing happens. Well not exactly nothing, I hear a faint but audible click from the welder board in addition the the normal click from the foot pedal which doesn't occur when the welder leads are not making contact with a conductive surface. I've tried adjusting the potentiometer through the whole range to no affect. That's about it, I'm stumped as to what to do, any advice? I hope I'm just forgetting something dumb here.
Attaching pictures of my setup for reference:
MattyCiii
100 kW
okashira said:
I'd be totally interested in this with the 'without battery' option. Care to start a list/take a deposit?
LSBW
100 W
LOL, sent PM, no reply yet 
I'm down for one too, with no battery option.
I'm down for one too, with no battery option.
I too am interested. I guess Riba2233 is no longer selling these. I guess there were a couple of problems with original design. Besides the battery, I also have a very good 12 volt power supply. But whatever the real offer is …battery/no battery etc. let me know and when it could be available.
Hwy89
10 kW
@ eleven6,
Is that a steel link of some kind between the aluminum bar and the neg. battery terminal? It would seem that something is limiting curent and I would suspect that extra connection. See if you can find a way to attach directly to the battery and make sure every thing is tight.
Is that a steel link of some kind between the aluminum bar and the neg. battery terminal? It would seem that something is limiting curent and I would suspect that extra connection. See if you can find a way to attach directly to the battery and make sure every thing is tight.
eleven6
1 W
@Hwy89
Unfortunately it's not a connection problem. I had an extra 12V battery I hooked the welder directly to the terminals (see pic) with the same result. No green led, no weld. Any ideas? Definitely sucks to be at the end of a year long project without a path forward.
Is Riba not around anymore? At this point I'll pay to borrow someone's working welder and ship it back to them when done if anyone's interested in helping out.
Unfortunately it's not a connection problem. I had an extra 12V battery I hooked the welder directly to the terminals (see pic) with the same result. No green led, no weld. Any ideas? Definitely sucks to be at the end of a year long project without a path forward.
Is Riba not around anymore? At this point I'll pay to borrow someone's working welder and ship it back to them when done if anyone's interested in helping out.
okashira
10 kW
I am preparing to offer some weld kits so going to do some testing of weld current with 2p and 3p of my batteries with 3s and 2s configuration.
Here is 2p2s at 6.4 volts:
Yellow is Source Drain voltage
Blue is voltage across 27 inches of 4awg welding lead.
No diode.
This is with welding leads shorted to eachother:
Here is Mosfet turn off:
Avalanche lasts for 113 microseconds. (hits a peak of 31V, fets are 24V rated!!!)
Note that the single welding lead (27 inches long) generates a peak negative voltage of 8.5V more then the whole battery in a single welding lead
Here is 2p2s at 6.4 volts:
Yellow is Source Drain voltage
Blue is voltage across 27 inches of 4awg welding lead.
No diode.
This is with welding leads shorted to eachother:
Here is Mosfet turn off:
Avalanche lasts for 113 microseconds. (hits a peak of 31V, fets are 24V rated!!!)
Note that the single welding lead (27 inches long) generates a peak negative voltage of 8.5V more then the whole battery in a single welding lead
okashira
10 kW
Measured current was 2,593 amps (1.45V voltage drop across 27" of 4awg wire)
Current rise time at mosfet turn on is about 1 millisecond from 0 to 2,500 amps.
I am using about a total of 59" of welding leads, 4awg.
When my diodes come in (gave to buddy) I will compare the avalanche before after diode, and take measurments at 3s with 9 volts.)
Current rise time at mosfet turn on is about 1 millisecond from 0 to 2,500 amps.
I am using about a total of 59" of welding leads, 4awg.
When my diodes come in (gave to buddy) I will compare the avalanche before after diode, and take measurments at 3s with 9 volts.
)
Quokka
1 kW
Definately interested if you can make a jp style welder okashira
Alan B
100 GW
Good job. Nice to see some data to help understand things.
okashira
10 kW
Quokka said:
The welder I am testing above is a JP welder.
The welders I will offer are an older version of JP welder (that doesnt blow traces hehe)
Ive done about 200 pulse tests at 2,600 amps with 6.3V battery. Seems okay so far no diode.
New diodes come in Tuesday and ill test with 9.5V battery
Here is how I repaired mine blown traces:
soldered copper straight from pins into bus bar area
Cleaned up the pins
Re attach with screws, now the aluminum clamps straight to the copper.
okashira
10 kW
This is the battery to bundle with kit:
Each cell is showing a weld pulse DCIR of 0.0007 Ohm, two cells in parallel only sag by 0.9V at 2,500 amps.
5.8-6.8V accessed on top terminal
8.7-10.2V accessed on bottom terminal.
Each cell is showing a weld pulse DCIR of 0.0007 Ohm, two cells in parallel only sag by 0.9V at 2,500 amps.
5.8-6.8V accessed on top terminal
8.7-10.2V accessed on bottom terminal.
Quokka
1 kW
Great news okashira, there are lots of us that are trying get a quality welder that are faced with no no real option. It would be great if you offered a with and without battery option as it would be much easier to ship ( regulation wise without lithium ion components)
Quokka
1 kW
My bad... Needed to dig a bit deeper into the thread okashira. If it works.. And can weld .2mm nickel reliably.. I want one!okashira said:
okashira
10 kW
With battery it will do 0.3mm nickel barely trying, WITHOUT slots even stacked up on 1mm thick material. In fact, at 9V, it's actually too powerful for 0.15mm nickel on a cell. That's why I have selecable voltage, you just use the 6V lead instead of the 9V lead for 0.2mm nickel.Quokka said:
But I only have like 5 of them. Maybe I need to ask JP if I can make some more
Let's make these 5 and see if they sell out
okashira
10 kW
Headrc said:
With my battery, I can guarantee welder (mosfet) durability, and welding performance
With your battery, I can guarantee nothing, furthermore, the mosfets will be less durable even at lower currents due to higher voltage.
I will also be installing 10V TVS diodes so a 12v lead acid will not be compatable. (you can use a 5s lead acid)
This battery wont vent hydrogen or leak acid. It weighs much less and is physically smaller
I can use some 12V TVS diodes, but they are less effective and I will need more of them. And I'll need to do more testing to accommodate a less then ideal solution.
Not sure why you guys are against the battery. They are great cells you can re-purpose in the future and they will last many years. They are rated for 20,000 cycles plus
For international folks, contact me directly so we can do it without a battery
LSBW
100 W
I'm not against the battery supplied, its just that I have 220 pieces of A123 26650 sitting on the shelf, doing nothing for the last 2 years.
Pretty sure I'll be able to use my cells for your welder.
Pretty sure I'll be able to use my cells for your welder.
okashira
10 kW
LSBW said:
Yes those cells will work great if you put enough in parallel. Use 2s and 3s configurations for 6V and 9V like I do
I think 10 in parallel at a minimum (depending on the quality of your connections)
LSBW
100 W
Thanks, second PM sent
okashira
10 kW
Folks, my plan is to have the welders fully built and ready to ship before taking orders. I don't like deadlines. 8)
Let me organize my components to determine just how many I can make before I reply to more PM's
Please also note these are not MY design. They are JP welders, an older version with my modifications (fly back and voltage suppression), with JP programmed micro controllers for shorter pulse delay time. Because I like welding fast.
If I have to offer a version for 12v lead acid, it will cost a bit more because I will need to order more and stronger voltage suppression components to prevent avalanche that kill these boards at higher current with the longer leads I will offer.
Let me organize my components to determine just how many I can make before I reply to more PM's
Please also note these are not MY design. They are JP welders, an older version with my modifications (fly back and voltage suppression), with JP programmed micro controllers for shorter pulse delay time. Because I like welding fast.
If I have to offer a version for 12v lead acid, it will cost a bit more because I will need to order more and stronger voltage suppression components to prevent avalanche that kill these boards at higher current with the longer leads I will offer.
Doctorbass
100 GW
Q1: What's the best electrode material for spotwelding copper sheet?
i have about 10 sq ft of 99.99% pure 0.005" copper.. for using with that tool. i preffer copper over the nickel for my high current use.
I guess sthat copper probe with copper material is not the best idea... :lol:
I tought about tungsten probe?
My setup should have 2.6 farads of very low esr caps.. total should be less than 150microohms.
Q2: I also Wonder whats the best voltage to go... 12V seem the rule now.. but increasing volt a bit crank up the joules alot! so.. i guess the max volt the Jp spotwelder can do is 16V according to the caps as i've read?
Thanks all for answer Q1 and Q2.
Doc
i have about 10 sq ft of 99.99% pure 0.005" copper.. for using with that tool. i preffer copper over the nickel for my high current use.
I guess sthat copper probe with copper material is not the best idea... :lol:
I tought about tungsten probe?
My setup should have 2.6 farads of very low esr caps.. total should be less than 150microohms.
Q2: I also Wonder whats the best voltage to go... 12V seem the rule now.. but increasing volt a bit crank up the joules alot! so.. i guess the max volt the Jp spotwelder can do is 16V according to the caps as i've read?
Thanks all for answer Q1 and Q2.
Doc
