New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Most riders have a cadence which suits them, most who ride regularly have a faster rate than those who don't, in my case I like a fairly high rate. Its unfortunate that most mid motors are set up for commuter bikes with people turning at low cadence but in a low gear.
 
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Where did you buy your kit from? Could you share a link?

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Umm I have got both the Bafung and the TSDZ2 engine off an Ebay sellor called Hallomotor. Both arrived really quickly ( in days via TNT ) and even when I had a problem with the first one ( older model A ) a second one ( type B as requested ) arrived a few days later after querying it. Always seem to answer any messages. With the TSDZ2 I just sent him a message, he came back with a price and paid by Paypal. Seemed to work.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172255004...49&var=471075490137&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
 
OK, converted one of batteries back to 48volts and taken my bike out for a spin. My bike is a Yeti 575 full suspension bike on 27.5 wheels and I ride steepish single track around my area.

Fitting the bike out with the kit is doddle with a small caveat. The full suspension bikes cannot take the rear support bracket to prevent the motor spinning and you will have to be a bit more creative. My BB is 73mm anyway so the 5mm spacers that come with the kit to fit between the outer motor bracket and engine are 5mm short. I opted for a small 5mm section of Ali from the front screw up to the frame to prevent any rotation and I also indented that outer bracket to mimic the Bafung system. I made a 10mm spacer for the rear screw. Do torque up the retaining nut for the motor spindle to at least 40Nm as this probably on its own will retain the engine and prevent any rotation, but perhaps do put on a anti rotation strap if you can.

The motor shape really means that you cannot move it up and forwards like the Bafung and you end up with it hung under the bike. I had my doubts about this but if you think it through, going over logs and the likes, the clearance is always limited by the largest crank ring, will you ever clout that under part of the BB, probably not. You do need to get your head around this a bit, it looks wrong but in use I doubt it will be a problem. The motor unit is quite a bit smaller than than the Bafung unit anyway so seems to fit and tuck up under the BB. Its just visually we are not used to this. The downside in sitting the unit underneath though is the cables are quite exposed to mud and water off the back tyre, I hope there's good waterproofing in the case.

Fit out to the bike is just so simple that most could do it, but anyone who says they have done it in a couple of hours are being a bit optimistic. In reality by the time you actually strip the bits off the bike, get the unit on and fitted after thinking it through a bit and have a coffee, a talk to the missus and then have doubts that you are doing the right thing, then set up the gears and the chain line, fit the battery, change the battery connections etc, it'll take a day. It is a very easy kit to fit though. I have to say the chain line isn't great ( 3rd ring on mine ) but you can get around this by fitting a 150mm rear cassette and stretching the rear triangle a little. On the 3rd ring on my 10 speed seems to work fine and although I suspect the chain is really at its limits, it seems to get onto the larger ring on the cassette OK.

Set up of the LCD display takes a bit of thought, hint wait until the full display screen is up and steady before holding down the two buttons for 3 seconds. The manual is not clear but once you get your head around it, its reasonably logical. The unit sits a long way forward and high up. I took the unit off its mount and reversed it so that mount faces back down the stem, the LCD sits lower and is more out of the way and easier to read.

OK spin it up and take it for a ride. My unit was really noisy at first compared to the Bafung, but now having done 40 miles on it, that seems to have quietened down a bit or I'm used to it. Its not offensive but you do know you have a very small electric engine on board. I do suspect though as the gears work out a " mesh " with each other that it will quieten down even more. On first rides this engine is very very good, really on a par with the Bosch system and the ride is very mtb like with a hint of assistance. In some ways better than I really expected to be honest. It is definitely not anywhere as grunty as the Bafung 750W but you have 10spds at the back and you just need to use the gears a bit more, the power is more than enough for the single track I do and probably in reality the 36volt units could be enough.

I was very worried about the reported cadence speeds of the 36 volts, the 48 volt units are actually pretty good and although I don't have a cadence meter on board, there's not much difference between my normal cadence and on this unit. At the very top end of my own cadence I can feel that you do start working against the motor, I found simply by changing down 1 gear puts you back into the motor sweet spot. That's telling me its not far out ( now if we could have used 52volts ). Bit of a bonus there and my worries about 52volts to up the cadence was probably somewhat unwarranted.

I think my set up 42T at the front and 36T at the back on a 27.5 rim is just slightly wrong for the steepest of single track I do. The Bafung being that bit more powerful will pull this set up but this unit won't. Its easy enough to fit a stock 36t ring or perhaps get a 42T rear climb ring perhaps, I'll see what I've got in the stock of bits I've taken off other bikes and see what I can come up with. The top speed is never going to much above 25mph anyway so maybe its just easiest to go to a 36T front ring. I know some have fitted dual front rings but then things get a bit complicated as far as chain line goes.

In summary then, this is a really cool bit of kit, if its reliability is anything like the Bafung and you are more interested in getting a feeling of riding a bike rather than a small petrol motor bike, then Bafung have a real competitor. I guess as more of us fit them and knowledge begins to build up as to how to hack the firmware, then one can only be impressed thus far.
 
Hello,
I'm new to this forum and am very close to buying a mid drive kit.
This kit is really interesting to me now that I see Amazon is also offering the throttle kit.
I really like the idea of 'Torque sensor' vs. a simple '5 level pedal assist'.
It sounds as though the throttle is a very new option and there is not a lot of support to getting it to play nice. I like that grip mounted controller too.

Do I wait for this system to have more information or do I just pull the trigger now on a Bafang 750 watt system? There is a lot of support there..
 
Hi Norton,
I pulled the trigger on this unit about a month ago. Just got back from a 5 mile ride all along some hills. The torque sensing is the paramount feature in my book (beyond the basics like power and reliability). So far so good, and the torque sensing makes this fairly seamless riding, rather than always having to integrate your wrist throttling with your pedaling effort and gear shifting. If bafang had torque sensing, I would have gotten one of theirs, but as far as I know they aren't anyway close to bringing one to market.
I'm surprised how quiet this one is, and how little battery capacity is it has been consuming.
Thats my two cents.
 
It really depends on what you want from your bike, the Bafung is more like a hybrid motor bike where it will simply speed up the more you change gear, as long as you turn your pedals, it powers up. Yes you can use a throttle grip but on knarly single track, having to throttle, charge gear and brake all simultaneously with your right hand whilst the bike is jarring around, can get tiresome.

The TSDZ2 is more like a bike with a background assist. The harder you pedal, the more power it will put in up until it reaches the assist level you have selected. A throttle would be a waste on this system.

I would suspect those from a motorcycle background will enjoy the Bafung and those coming from a bike background, the TSDZ2. I would really recommend to go and get a ride on an Bosch system at one of your local bike dealers, a lot of them have leccie bikes as demo and that will convince you one way or other.
 
Hickory,
Thanks for the report! That's what I want to hear!

Wayne,
Thanks for your description of this system. It's just nice, I would think, to have the throttle option for the occasional 'sit back and watch the world go by'.
I ride motorcycles and bikes. Are you saying the Bosch system is torque sensing? I'll try to find a LBS that handles ebikes this weekend!

Amigos,
That's a hub motor. I'm not the least bit interested in that type of ebike.

Guys,
Do any of you have the 500 watt system?
With the new throttle and the small grip color display/assist level shifter, how hard is it to find info/support in making these new features work?
I know I want the brake lever switches too.
I like that it is torque sensing on not just one of 5 (or 9) levels of preset assist, like the Bafang.

With these add ons this should be a more high tech version of the Bafang, only at 500 watt, and hopefully quieter.

I plan on powering it with a 48V pack from Luna because I think I read the TSDZ2 can't use a 52V pack. Is that true?
If I really like this I know I'll end up building up a new bike with MORE POWER and I'm buying a pack for that reason for this 500 watt TSDZ2.

Thanks again for the help and any more info you guys might have !! :)
 
Ok, I have had a few more test runs on the motor and battery, and have a few observations. On mine, it seems like assist level 1 and 2 are all but useless. I can pedal with the same effort and speed with the motor OFF as I can in these 2 levels. The only time I noticed any help in level 2 was going up hills. Level 3 and 4 are where the magic happens, you really know that you have assistance in these 2 levels. On flat ground I was cruising easily at 18mph in level 3 and 22 in level 4 using the same effort, you just have to shift into a higher gear.
Power usage and time over 13 miles was as follows:-
Level 2 for 13 miles (59:52) 65 watt hours
Level 3 for 13 miles (50:43) 110 watt hours
Level 4 for 13 miles (45:39) 156 watt hours
I got 60 miles out of a 15ah battery before it died on level 4 using 499wh
I got 64 miles at level 3 and used 474wh, so there was a few miles left in the battery.
I find the battery indicator stays showing full bars for most of the time and then rapidly drops. Mine showed 1 bar drop at 50 miles, but was dead by 60!
 
Guys, you have to think of a 350W or 500W bike in a completely different way to that of a 1000W bike. If you want pure speed and adrenaline, then go buy a 1000W engine like the Bafung HD, it will serve that purpose without you pedaling, but at a cost of battery size, weight and a lot of additional cost, you don't get something for nothing. If you want a mtb bike to be able to handle single track and steep slow climbs then you need light weight nimbleness and gears, that mean probably at most 500W 48Volts and your own 250W of input. That 750W is more than enough together with your 10spd .

My own local rides are typically steepish single track, on a 20 mile ride I will do about 1500ft of climb, without a motor I average about 7-8mph, with the motor I do about 12 on the TDSZ2 and about 13.5 with the much more powerful Bafung. If you guys can average more along steep single tracks then you are a better rider than I and probably will spend more time concentrating intensely on the path ahead than enjoy the local vista, as well as the ride.

On the TSDZ2 on a 6Ah battery ( sorry I haven't got a total Watt meter ) I'm getting about 20 miles and just getting home. A better solution would be a 9Ah battery and not carry the extra 6 Ah attery as I do. On the Bafung on the same ride I have to change batteries after about an hour.

Look up battery technology and you will find that all modern Li ion batteries will sustain voltage until the last 1/4 of charge where it falls off a cliff. No display that just reads voltage will be able to work that out and will show full bars until the last part where you suddenly start loosing display bars.

The TSDZ2 torque sensing is just savvy enough to know about your effort, if its not putting power in, its because you aren't putting any effort in, it only wants to match what effort you are prepared to put in. Now that's good for when you are riding with your non powered mates or on steep tight single track, but bad if you just want to go fast without any pedal effort. I would suspect those having to use the higher levels are looking for speed rather than riding more slowly and probably should be looking at the Bafung which as long as you pedal of any kind, will put in as much effort as you have programmed in.
 
The TDZ2 power output is very good for my use. I want enough power to help get me up some steep hills that would have prevented me form going on a particular path, and some assist on medium grades as well. But I didn't want a motor scooter, rather just some exercise assist for the terrain. Speed is not at all important to me. The range is outstanding with my 14.5a battery. Power assist level 1 is mild, but noticeable. Level 4 is like being a mountain goat.
 
hello every body. here my little contribution. I hope you 'd like it
34776598112_39e0333b33_h.jpg
 
I personally do not feel comfortable having nazi anything on this forum. Get a new paint job
 
This is Japanese, Korean, and Chinese tech at work.
I don't see the German link.

But then,,, the German are my second favorite people.

Who's my first,,, you may ask?

Everybody else...... :p
 
Yep, it a Nazi cross. Please remove the photo from the posting, or the forum moderators/administrators will be involved.
 
Not nazi stuff I think, seems inspired by the Red Baron, a WW-I tri-plane fighter pilot who won 80 air battles and was awarded an iron cross. He lost his 81st (and died) safely before the nazis came along.

Having said that, few people will enjoy anything german, red-black-and-white, military styled, with gothic letters. Even if it formally pre-dates the nazis.
 
Sorry - new at this. I obv didn't/can't quote properly. My comment/request was to Waynemarlow's of 25 May...


The full suspension bikes cannot take the rear support bracket to prevent the motor spinning and you will have to be a bit more creative. My BB is 73mm anyway so the 5mm spacers that come with the kit to fit between the outer motor bracket and engine are 5mm short. I opted for a small 5mm section of Ali from the front screw up to the frame to prevent any rotation

Hiya

I'm a new member.

I've put one on my my wife's hardtail with no problems. She loves it, as do I - she can keep up now! But she's sick of my whining that I want one too. I also have a full-sus MTB with 73 BB. I can follow your description but would really appreciate a bit more on how you made and fitted the alum section to/from the front screw to the frame. Any chance of a photo? Cheers
 
This Iron Cross imagery is clearly referencing Manfred von Richthofen, the Red Baron. He was dead long before Nazis were a thing. The German military used the Iron Cross back in the 19th century, and still uses it today for some decorations.

Iron Cross images are an established feature of both surfer and biker (as in motorcycles) subcultures, too.

The Germans adopted the form of their Iron Cross from the cross pattée, which is early medieval. The British Victoria Cross and the American Distinguished Flying Cross both use it.

140px-Dfc-usa.jpg


At the moment, the US flag probably has more fascist-specific baggage than the cross pattée.

1968SurferCross00.jpg
 
"yes it is a red baron artwork."
Well, then I stand corrected. Pardon me.
I see 20+ million dead civilians when I see that symbolism [blood and metal]
 
Ok now that I hear the explanation I see the red barron reference - just be aware that an iron cross with an 8, or 88 usually refers to Hitler "H being the eighth letter of the alphabet". With Neo Nazis in my area I get a bit nervous when I see this stuff, and jump to conclusions. The 0 confused me - now I get it with the Red Barron explanation. Cool history lesson.

That being said - most won't get it, and you might find your bike vandalized or something with that there - sadly you might still want to consider a more overt Red Barron reference. Maybe snoopy as red barron or something:
hqdefault.jpg
 
wesblog said:
Would you guys recommend I use a Giant Escape 2 ($300 used) or a Gravity Avenue FX ($269)?

The Giant has a significant better parts spec, and it's likely to have been set up competently by a bike shop, which the Bikesdirect bike isn't. But neither is a bike to get excited about-- they both lie within the range of "possibly OK".
 
Hickory said:
"yes it is a red baron artwork."
Well, then I stand corrected. Pardon me.
I see 20+ million dead civilians when I see that symbolism [blood and metal]
Im afraid you fellas need some history lessons. I see snoopy. And my bucycle in 1960 and rat fink hot rods.
 
Someone bought one to test for resale? Who was that, its a long thread...
 
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