New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

[skestans]

Both our motors developed a squeaking noise when pedaling. It feels like it’s coming from the left crank but it’s hard to locate because it only happens on the road under load and never in the stand.

I tried reseating and retightening the crank arms but no change.

Would anyone know what causes this noise and how to fix it?

 

[Elinx]

... squeaking noise when pedaling.....
I tried reseating and retightening the crank arms but no change.

Would anyone know what causes this noise and how to fix it?

Mostly tighten the 33.5mm BB nut of the Tsdz2 again, is the solution for that.

 

[skestans]

... squeaking noise when pedaling.....
I tried reseating and retightening the crank arms but no change.

Would anyone know what causes this noise and how to fix it?

Mostly tighten the 33.5mm BB nut of the Tsdz2 again, is the solution for that.

Thanks. Do you mean the silver ring that requires the special (supplied) tool to fasten/unfasten?

 

[Elinx]

....Do you mean the silver ring that requires the special (supplied) tool to fasten/unfasten?

Yes, this ring has the tendency to loosen a bit when biking.

There are some solutions to prevent this a bit.
For example after tightening with that relative slappy and short tool
In the installation manual they advice 40Nm, this means about 20kg at the end of that tool.
To approch this, a little hammering with a wooden or plastic hammer could help.

Some punches on the inside of this ring with a centerpunch, to lower the smoothness of it

 

[hego]

Where is the manual for configutarion of the old LT LCD-3 v0.19.0?
Is missing?

Are the hex files but not the config one.I can find it?
Thank's

 

[hego]

Where is the manual for configutarion of the old LT LCD-3 v0.19.0?
Is missing?

Are the hex files but not the config one.I can find it?
Thank's

r

 

[rcx194]

I'm attempting to build the new open source display. The power switch BTS4140N is no longer produced, is there an alternative? And the transistor BSS123 comes in many sub types eg BSS123-FAI. I don't know enough about these things to know which exact type to go for. Any tips on these?

 

[rcx194]

Do y'all drive a car or a real motorcycle? If so, does it have a power interlock with the brakes?

If not, how do you possibly manage it?

Yes, it's called a clutch. If you don't engage it (for a manual/stick shift) when braking to a stop the engine will stall - which is analogous to stripping the blue gear.

Wow, your clutch is joined to the brakes? Mine wasn't, when I rode a stinker bike. Nor when I drove a stinker car.

My point is, in every other motor vehicle, it's up to the operator to avoid applying brakes and power at the same time. Yet with the weakest kind of motor vehicle, some people think it's important to do this automatically, when no other vehicles have this feature.

I don't think it's the same. A manual car has two pedals operated by one foot, meaning it's not really possible to put the brakes and gas on at the same time. On a bicycle, you're feet are constantly on the pedals which power the motor.

 

[Chalo]

I don't think it's the same. A manual car has two pedals operated by one foot, meaning it's not really possible to put the brakes and gas on at the same time. On a bicycle, you're feet are constantly on the pedals which power the motor.

I guess you've never ridden with a two-footed automatic transmission car driver. Or ridden a motorcycle. Neither of those vehicles has a brake interlock on the engine.

 

[rcx194]

I don't think it's the same. A manual car has two pedals operated by one foot, meaning it's not really possible to put the brakes and gas on at the same time. On a bicycle, you're feet are constantly on the pedals which power the motor.

I guess you've never ridden with a two-footed automatic transmission car driver. Or ridden a motorcycle. Neither of those vehicles has a brake interlock on the engine.

On a motorcycle when you reach for the front brake your hand rolls the gas shut. It would be fiddly to keep the gas on while trying to pull the brake lever.

 

[Chalo]

I don't think it's the same. A manual car has two pedals operated by one foot, meaning it's not really possible to put the brakes and gas on at the same time. On a bicycle, you're feet are constantly on the pedals which power the motor.

I guess you've never ridden with a two-footed automatic transmission car driver. Or ridden a motorcycle. Neither of those vehicles has a brake interlock on the engine.

On a motorcycle when you reach for the front brake your hand rolls the gas shut. It would be fiddly to keep the gas on while trying to pull the brake lever.

But your right foot has another brake, and it doesn't cut engine power. You do that yourself, and you can do it just as easily with an e-bike.

Face it, this is nonsense like wearing a helmet to ride a pedal bike when you don't wear one to drive a car or climb a ladder. It's busybody stuff that simply isn't necessary or helpful.

 

[sysrq]

I think I fried my motor today......
Did I overheat and burn my motor? What can I do to diagnose the problem? I had only 2000 km on it so having to buy a new one would suck.

I don't think your motor is burned, because in that case you will first notice a powerdecrease (by demagnetized magnets) before it stops working.

Imho a fried controller with shorten FET's is more obvious. Remove the casecover and you see (and smell) the cause.
Which version of OSF have you flashed?

FYI
Both the bare motor and the controller can be purchased separately and replaced.
So you don't need to buy a new tsdz2.

I don't think the power consumption will decrease with demagnetized magnets, only the outputs torque.

 

[casainho]

I would like my share my first experience with Bafang M500 VS TSDZ2.

Some months ago I decided to build a new EBike for me with Bafang M500 and leave behind the TSDZ2. Only the empty frame for M500 did cost 1100€ while the full bicycle to install a TSDZ2 did costs 750€ only, so, this EBike was like 5x more expensive than the one I built with TSDZ2 - but they are not comparable, still one is much more expensive which is relevant for users as me on a poor European country.

I had high expectations for lower noise compared to TSDZ2 but for my deception, the M500 still makes some good amount of noise, and I would say it is the same amount as TSDZ2 with well lubricated gears.

The other bad thing is that we did not developed yet our OpenSource firmware to M500, the even with 9 assist levels, the level 1 of original firmware is to much power for my taste and uses more battery than what I want, so I can not fine tune as we can on TSDZ2 running our OpenSource firmware.

The only strong point of M500 compared to TSDZ2 is that it seems more robust mechanically (has similar weight) and that is very important for me as the only failures I had with TSDZ2 were mechanical, while I was riding on MTB events on mountains, far from home.

So, I am happy to keep using TSDZ2 on my city EBikes, because it is the most cheap and capable option, and very flexible because of our OpenSource firmware. And on my MTB EBike, I will keep using the Bafang M500 and hopefully develop our firmware for it.

Two of my EBikes, left side MTB with M500 motor and on right side our mini cargo bike with TSDZ2:


As a family, we value a lot our EBikes but we can not afford to have each one costing 5.000 euros, so TSDZ2 is like a magic solution:


And as a final note, I am using the same display on both EBikes: our EasyDIY display developed both for TSDZ2 and Bafang M500/M600:

 

[Elinx]

I would like my share my first experience with Bafang M500 VS TSDZ2.....

Thanks for your comparision. You have made a beautiful eMTB with the M500.
I'm still happy with the Tsdz2, but as you I have sometimes some worries about the mechanical parts and was oriëntating on Bafang too sometimes.
But with the recent changes to Canbus and binded accu for all models, (M325 for BBS02, M510 for M500 etc) I think developing OSF for it will be far away, or it must be together with another developed controller too.

The Tsdz2 is still unbeatable with regard to price and possibilities.

.... notice a powerdecrease .... before it stops working. ....

I don't think the power consumption will decrease with demagnetized magnets, only the outputs torque.

Decrease of powerconsumption is different from decrease of motorpower.
Imho decrease of motorpower will increase powerconsumption, if you try to get the same support as before.

 

[seattlesockey]

Experienced my first blue gear failure at about 2,600 miles (~4,200 km). Replacing the blue gear is no big deal. But I found some loose bearings where the smaller metal gear sits in the motor case. That was unexpected.



Apparently the bearing between the case and the small metal gear failed as well.

Anyone know what that bearing is and where to obtain one?

Thanks for any insights.

 

[seattlesockey]

Experienced my first blue gear failure at about 2,600 miles (~4,200 km). Replacing the blue gear is no big deal. But I found some loose bearings where the smaller metal gear sits in the motor case. That was unexpected.

Apparently the bearing between the case and the small metal gear failed as well.

Anyone know what that bearing is and where to obtain one?

Thanks for any insights.

Available from many dealers and Aliexpress.

That is perfect! Thanks Wapous!

 

[casainho]

My thoughts about pedal human power and stamina, for Bafang motors or TSDZ2:

I also do some light trail runs and I use a Garmin watch that has a metric called "stamina" that represents my energy. As I am tall, fat and not fit, I have low stamina and so I need to manage very well my energy so I can go to the end of the trails of 15kms.
For example today, I was able to run the 15 kms and never stop to walk because I was tired, so I did manage well my energy and in the end, my Garmin watch stamina said I had energy for only more 3kms - quite accurate for the way I was felling tired:



The Garmin watches or cycling GPS computers as Edge, can also calculate stamina for cycling activities but for that it needs the real time input of pedal human power. My plan is to calculate the pedal human power from Bafang M500/M600 / TSDZ2 torque sensor, using our EasyDIY display, and send wireless by ANT to the watch or GPS computer, so the user will be able to see later the graph of pedal human power as also got the real time stamina while cycling.

Here the example of my running power (around average 250W) and stamina graphs on the 15 kms trail run:

 

[yotatoyota]

Hi everyone. My dad wants to convert his old Giant hardtail from 90s into an ebike. I've been reading this forum and other forums extensively for 2 whole days and now my head hurts from all the info. We finally decided that the best option is to get a TSDZ2 motor from PSWPOWER. But we are not sure whether we should order 36V 350W or 48V 500W. I've used a search function on this massive thread, started reading all the info and I've got even more confused that I was before. :lol:

My dad is somewhat of a bigger lad: 190 cm in height (6'3") and ~ 110 kg in weight (243 lbs). He would mostly ride the bike to work: 5-10 km / 5 days a week, some 5-10 km rides around our area through paved roads and/or easy gravel roads. He also plans to take the bike for some occasional longer 20-50 km trips.

We are from an Eastern Europe country which is mostly flat. My dad lives in a small town and there are only a couple of small hills which are not very steep. We have windy weather quite often, though. My dad doesn't really care about top speed, he would prefer the motor to be as reliable as possible and give good range. He would like to run the motor on the stock firmware.

Anyway, the 36V and 48V versions of the motor costs more or less the same. We are leaning more towards the 48V 500W variant because from what I've gathered 48V is smoother, has a bit more torque, and runs a bit cooler than the 36V motor(?). And I guess it would be more suited for a heavier rider? On the other hand, our budget is kinda low, so if we choose the 36V 350W motor we could spend a bit more money on the battery since 36V ones are cheaper. And we definitely don't want to cheap out on the battery, but we also don't want to sacrifice the power/torque of the motor and range too much. We would try to find and buy the battery from a reputable EU seller.

 

[Elinx]

...., the best option is to get a TSDZ2 motor from PSWPOWER...
... the motor to be as reliable as possible and give good range. He would like to run the motor on the stock firmware.
....because from what I've gathered 48V is smoother, has a bit more torque, and runs a bit cooler than the 36V motor(?)...

........ if we choose the 36V 350W motor we could spend a bit more money on the battery since 36V ones are cheaper. . ....

The price of the batterie is the same if the capacity is the same. You pay for the number of cells inside.
36V and 48V battery prices are (almost) equal too, if you calculate the Wh instead of Ah.
For example 36V 20Ah has the same capacity as 48V 15Ah (720Wh capacity) and 36V/16Ah=48V/12Ah (580Wh)

PSWPower is a good source for buying the Tsdz2.
But running with stock firmware isn't the most effective and reliable.
OSF is more efficient for the blue gear, noise, motorsupport, range, cadence, heat and configurability.

You are right that 48V is a bit cooler, but only if you run it with the same power as the 36V version (<350W).
There are two minor hardware points with Tsdz2; heat management and mechanical tolerances.
You can improve these two a bit the easy way, by filling the gap between stator and casecover with heatconductive pads and add one or two extra bearings for more support of the spindle, before you mount the Tsdz2 on the bike.

FYI:
Enerprof is a German seller of batteries.
They sell the tsdz2 too, but with a different (32bit) controller that isn't flashable with OSF, but I have read that stock firmware is more efficient than the version of the older (8bit) controller

 

[yotatoyota]

Thank you so much for the info. I'm new to ebikes and I'm a total newbie when it comes to electronics, so I apologize for any dumb stuff I've said/might say.

Anyway, I ordered a 48V 500W TSDZ2 with 8PIN VLCD5 from PSWPower. I understand that OSF makes the TSDZ more efficient and reliable, but, unfortunately, neither I, nor my dad have time or skill to tinker with OSF. We will probably address the inherent hardware issues you mentioned - that does look like a rather easy job, and the materials are readily available.

Regarding the batteries. My budget allows me to buy a Hailong G70 48V 15AH battery with Samsung INR21700-50E 21700 cells for 275€ from PSWPower. Here's the link:

https://pswpower.com/products/eu-no-tax-electric-ebike-battery-hailong-g70-samsung-lg-18650-cells-pack-48v-13ah-145ah-175ah-lithium-battery-fit-1000w-motor-108

TSDZ2 OSF wiki on Github decribes PSWPower as a popular shop, so I assume it is a reputable seller, and the battery should be all right? I've checked a couple of reviews in their webshop, and there is one photo of a partially disassembled battery, and you can clearly see that the cells are indeed the promised Samsung ones.

I've checked the batteries on Enerprof, and I'm not sure I can afford even the cheapest 48V 11.60Ah one:

https://enerprof.de/en/ebike-batteries/bike-frame-batteries/48v-13s-batteries/780/enerpower-reention-48v-li-ion-akkon-11.60ah-13-80ah-550wh-665wh?c=71

The charger is not included, so if I bundle the cheapest 2A charger for 48V + add shipping costs + PayPal fee, the total is around 390€.

The only option in my budget range is this 48V 10.50Ah softpack with Panasonic NCR2070C cells:

https://enerprof.de/en/ebike-batteries/softpacks-in-bags/48v-13s-batteries/301/softpack-battery-48v-10.50ah-ncr2070c-in-roswheel-bag?c=101

Personally, I'm not a fan of them, so I'm not considering buying it.

Probably the last option I could go for are the Green Cell batteries which are very popular where I live - in fact, these are the only batteries that major bike shops has for sale in my country.

https://greencell.global/en/595-e-bike-batteries

I think Green Cell uses Panasonic cells (I'm not certain though), the batteries are affordable, the company here has a decent reputation, but the strange thing is that all the ebike batteries they have for sale, apparently, are only available for motors up to 250W. How is that possible that, let's say, 48V 15Ah battery can't be used for a 500W TSDZ2 motor?

 

[Matze_Senpai]

hello, i would like to exchange the blue gear with the brass gear, however im struggling to find out any information about what kind of grease to use. can someone help me out please? thanks

 

[Elinx]

.....
I think Green Cell uses Panasonic cells (I'm not certain though), ..... the strange thing is that all the ebike batteries they have for sale, apparently, are only available for motors up to 250W. How is that possible that, let's say, 48V 15Ah battery can't be used for a 500W TSDZ2 motor?

imho there is no difference. You can use that battery for 500W too. Continues motor power has nothing to do with it.

The only thing what limits the use should be the possible max. current out of the battery. (You need at least 20A or more output for 500W)
This depends how many cells in parallel they use inside the battery. The cell configuration isn't mentioned.
Or it could be that the BMS is the limiting factor, what limit the current.

I don't why they say this, maybe because 250W for an ebike is the maximum power you may use in the EU by law.
I don't see they use Panasonic cells. They do mention "Green Cell Li-Ion cells with increased density"

 

[Square]

After my overheating incident and a controller replacement, I unscrewed the inner motor and found out that the blue gear was completely fine.

But when I try to make the motor turn with walk assist, I only hear a slight buzzing sound and I see the motor axis slightly twitch. The motor looks slightly redened:



This means the inner motor is dead and demagnetized, right? Could there be some way of fixing this, besides replacing the inner motor (a 130 € part...)?

 

[Ernie]

I have a TSDZ2 36v 350W version with a XH-18 display.

What parts do I need to replace to convert it to a 48v setup?

 

[Elinx]

I have a TSDZ2 36v 350W version with a XH-18 display.

What parts do I need to replace to convert it to a 48v setup?

Only a bare 48V motor and change of firmware on the controller
Otherwise you need a 48V controller too

For firmware you can flash stock firmware or flash OSF of mbrusa
For stock firmware this is a great source with firmware downloads here
For mbrusa OSF this is the topic you must see